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Old 10/01/2015, 03:10 PM   #76
Giovanni
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Just to add to power failure discussion. Correct me if I am wrong but what we really want to grow is anaerobic bacteria. Limiting the water flow, thus O2 to the matrix in a reactor is to help promote anaerobic bacteria. Along that line of thought, if the power goes out, no water flow would only mean less O2 which for anaerobic bacteria is good. The only problem would be the anaerobic bacteria would not be getting fed, which they can tolerate for quite some time.


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Old 10/01/2015, 03:25 PM   #77
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Nitrifying and denitrifying Bacteria will both remain on the media. Matrix pond is used as denitrification source, however denitrification only pertains to the inner core of the media. All along the surface will remain active with aerobic bacteria. The fact that a pump is even used means it will create an environental in which aerobic bacteria thrive in.


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Old 10/01/2015, 03:39 PM   #78
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From Seachems website...

"Matrix™ may be placed in any kind of filter, and is particularly effective in a canister filter.


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Old 10/01/2015, 03:56 PM   #79
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That is correct. I'm not saying that it isn't effective in a reactor by any means.


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Old 10/01/2015, 04:28 PM   #80
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ok maybe Im missing something, if it is effective in a reactor as others have shown, and the reactor doesnt empty during a power outage, the matrix would be in the same conditions during a power outtage in the reactor as it would if placed/hung in the sump correct? It would still be submersed in water with no flow in both cases. I do see there may be an advantage to sump use over reactor in an outtage simply due to the increased water volume in the sump may be able to provide the aerobic bacteria with o2 longer than in the small space of the reactor.


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Old 10/01/2015, 04:47 PM   #81
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ok maybe Im missing something, if it is effective in a reactor as others have shown, and the reactor doesnt empty during a power outage, the matrix would be in the same conditions during a power outtage in the reactor as it would if placed/hung in the sump correct? It would still be submersed in water with no flow in both cases. I do see there may be an advantage to sump use over reactor in an outtage simply due to the increased water volume in the sump may be able to provide the aerobic bacteria with o2 longer than in the small space of the reactor.
I think you pretty much summed it all up. I have less rock in my display so part of my matrix is being used to utilize the beneficial aerobic bacteria. The question that I have is if all the nitrifying bacteria does die within the reactor what effect will it have on the denitrifying bacteria within the reactor or main tank (if given that you have a substantial amount of nitrifying bacteria present). If given it does affect the life of the denitrifying bacteria and you carbon dose then I see a potential problem. I'm no expert here just giving some thoughts.


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Old 10/01/2015, 04:58 PM   #82
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Limiting the water flow, thus O2 to the matrix in a reactor is to help promote anaerobic bacteria..
Sort of. I think the only way the denitrification is becoming present is by using the matrix pond which is much larger than the matrix. This allows a further distance between the surface of the media to its core compared to the regular matrix. I don't think the reactors flow is really the driving factor causing the denitrification process to occur (given that you don't blast the media with to much flow) as much as it is the size in the media that the reactor is using.


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Old 10/01/2015, 05:09 PM   #83
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Not sure why having the bag in direct line of water flow would cause anh increase in nitrates.
I view my drain water as waste water. Given the porousness of the media I think it would be better having a filter sock and skimmer absorb some of that waste to reduce the amount that may be absorbed by your matrix. I'm not saying your nitrates are going to be through the roof. I just think down the road you may have a hard time trying to maintain a very low nitrate level. If carbon dosing is taken into account than I cannot comment as I don't really know.


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Old 10/01/2015, 07:19 PM   #84
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Sort of. I think the only way the denitrification is becoming present is by using the matrix pond which is much larger than the matrix. This allows a further distance between the surface of the media to its core compared to the regular matrix. I don't think the reactors flow is really the driving factor causing the denitrification process to occur (given that you don't blast the media with to much flow) as much as it is the size in the media that the reactor is using.
Reefvet actually tested matrix as well as siporax and a few others. He mentioned that the pond matrix version is not what you want. If you dig through the last 3 or 4 pages of Sahin's tank thread, he goes into more detail there.


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Old 10/01/2015, 08:26 PM   #85
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Interesting.. I'll have to check it out. Thanks for the info.


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Old 10/01/2015, 08:33 PM   #86
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from what i heard the pond matrix is a different material than matrix and de*nitrate(which I believe are just different sizes of the same material?)

The drain sediment does make sense, I think my saving grace is the constant flow doesnt allow anything to settle in the matrix, it settles only in 2 corners of that chamber, but it may be getting some finer particles into the matrix from that initial blast of water...I might move it to the third chamber.

I like all the different input in this thread, makes you rethink ideas and methods of your own and possibly improve.


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Old 10/01/2015, 09:52 PM   #87
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from what i heard the pond matrix is a different material than matrix and de*nitrate(which I believe are just different sizes of the same material?)
I have both Matrix and Matrix Pond and can't tell any difference between the two other than the size. I'd be surprise to see this.

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I like all the different input in this thread, makes you rethink ideas and methods of your own and possibly improve.
Exactly


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Old 10/01/2015, 11:08 PM   #88
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Reefvet actually tested matrix as well as siporax and a few others. He mentioned that the pond matrix version is not what you want. If you dig through the last 3 or 4 pages of Sahin's tank thread, he goes into more detail there.
This.

I'm fairly certain that reefvet completed these tests in a laboratory environment with sophisticated equipment. He didn't just bring home some media and plop it in the tank. The denitrification that is occurring is unquestionably a direct factor of the flow within a reactor.

To those that don't run their media in a reactor; it's not necessary. You will however yield increased efficiency (denitrification per specified volume of media), along with more consistent results.


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Old 10/01/2015, 11:19 PM   #89
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Originally Posted by KingTriton1 View Post
That is correct. I'm not saying that it isn't effective in a reactor by any means.
Quote:
Originally Posted by KingTriton1 View Post
Sort of. I think the only way the denitrification is becoming present is by using the matrix pond which is much larger than the matrix. This allows a further distance between the surface of the media to its core compared to the regular matrix. I don't think the reactors flow is really the driving factor causing the denitrification process to occur (given that you don't blast the media with to much flow) as much as it is the size in the media that the reactor is using.
Quote:
Originally Posted by pstank1 View Post
Reefvet actually tested matrix as well as siporax and a few others. He mentioned that the pond matrix version is not what you want. If you dig through the last 3 or 4 pages of Sahin's tank thread, he goes into more detail there.
This.

I'm fairly certain that reefvet completed these tests in a laboratory environment with sophisticated equipment. He didn't just bring home some media and plop it in the tank. The denitrification that is occurring is unquestionably a direct factor of the flow within a reactor.

To those that don't run their media in a reactor; it's not necessary. You will however yield increased efficiency (denitrification per specified volume of media), along with more consistent results.

Additionally, the ability for these types of media to sustain a relevant amount of denitrifying bacteria is dependent on pore size, not depth of the pores. This is where Matrix and Siporax excel; because they have chosen a product with the correct pore size, they don't need extra pore depth to compensate (something that is necessary for denitrification within live rock). Pond Matrix and Matrix are the same material, just different sizes. The most you could argue is that you have fewer pores per total volume of Pond Matrix than Matrix. Directly from SeaChem's site:

Generally, with very large pore diameters, we have smaller specific surface area, so that is not good. This generally rules out pores above 10 microns in diameter......


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Old 10/02/2015, 09:05 AM   #90
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Additionally, the ability for these types of media to sustain a relevant amount of denitrifying bacteria is dependent on pore size, not depth of the pores. This is where Matrix and Siporax excel; because they have chosen a product with the correct pore size, they don't need extra pore depth to compensate (something that is necessary for denitrification within live rock).
Good information here. I believe this is where the clarification was needed on my end. (viewing the media as if it were operating as same way as live rock)


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Old 10/03/2015, 07:13 PM   #91
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Anyone have the link to the ebay seller that ships to the US for the siporax 25mm Pond version?


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Old 10/03/2015, 09:15 PM   #92
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Anyone have the link to the ebay seller that ships to the US for the siporax 25mm Pond version?
You can buy it in AMAZON:
http://www.amazon.com/Siporax-Aquari...60_SR92%2C160_

PS: Sorry, I just saw you wrote "pond version". This one is for reef tanks. I am not sure of the differences with the pond version. Size ?


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Old 10/03/2015, 09:22 PM   #93
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My MATRIX in a HOB refugiun that is hanging in the back of my "20G refugium full of macros".


Matrix in a recently made DIY media reactor:



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Old 10/03/2015, 09:23 PM   #94
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Pond version is longer. Both would work but the pond would be better. My LFS can get it but he is not ordering for a while.
http://www.sera-usa.com/us/products/...ond-25-mm.html


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Old 10/04/2015, 03:34 AM   #95
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Pond version is longer. Both would work but the pond would be better. My LFS can get it but he is not ordering for a while.
http://www.sera-usa.com/us/products/...ond-25-mm.html
Why would the pond version be better?

Thanks


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Old 10/04/2015, 01:35 PM   #96
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I can pick up the 15mm stuff for about $10 a Liter shipped to my door, but I have to buy 50L. Anyone want to split some with me?


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Old 10/05/2015, 02:15 AM   #97
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Jumping on the boat, been looking into it for a while just ordered 10l of Siporax so cant wait to try it.


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Old 10/05/2015, 11:49 PM   #98
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For those interested in efficacy and pricing: Reefvet said that through his tests that (if I recall correctly) Siporax has approximately 25x the anaerobic area of live rock. A close second was the Matrix, at approximately 20x the area. I mention this, because I just purchased 5 gallons of Matrix through Amazon for $100 with free shipping. That's 5x less than Siporax, so much more anaerobic bacteria growth per $.

I will say that the Matrix is irregularly shaped and smaller than Siporax, and cannot be utilized with egg crate alone. Another layer will have to be used in conjunction; perhaps the plastic material used for stitching with yarn (unsure the name). This or a reactor (which I'm inclined to use), which may negate the cost savings of the Matrix.

Just some thoughts....


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Old 10/06/2015, 05:52 AM   #99
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I will say that the Matrix is irregularly shaped and smaller than Siporax, and cannot be utilized with egg crate alone. Another layer will have to be used in conjunction; perhaps the plastic material used for stitching with yarn (unsure the name). This or a reactor (which I'm inclined to use), which may negate the cost savings of the Matrix..
Exactly what made the Siporax more appealing to me. I find reactors always accumulate debris which requires removal and disassembly to clean. Since most of the filth ends up on the bottom of the reactor all the media needs to come out for a proper cleaning. The egg crate box, on the other hand, can be kept clean simply by moving the media by hand and letting the water flow move accumulated debris back on its way. Just a theory at the moment as I just built and installed my box and Siporax on Sunday


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Old 10/06/2015, 06:57 AM   #100
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Exactly what made the Siporax more appealing to me. I find reactors always accumulate debris which requires removal and disassembly to clean. Since most of the filth ends up on the bottom of the reactor all the media needs to come out for a proper cleaning. The egg crate box, on the other hand, can be kept clean simply by moving the media by hand and letting the water flow move accumulated debris back on its way. Just a theory at the moment as I just built and installed my box and Siporax on Sunday
You can use media bags to have your Matrix on it. See posting # 93 and this picture.


Matrix is in 4 media bags. The floor is black egg crate

When you want to clean it just take out the media bags, wash them is salt water and return it back.



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