How to increase Calcium safely

[jharding08]

I have added some SPS to my display tank a month or so ago and noticed that my calcium is now pretty low as of three weeks ago. I measured it on January 18th to be 335 ppm with alk at 10.1 and Magnesium at 1500. I use BRS Calcium Choride, Soda Ash and Magnesium 2 part on drews dosers. I have an Apex that drips for a certain amount of time per hour for a range of hours.

Ca - 4 min every hour from 9:00 to 15:59
Alk - 4 min every hour from 22:00 to 4:59
Mg - 1 min every hour from 17:00 to 20:59

I have been raising my calcium every week from 1/18 (3 min every hour) to 1/31 (3.5 min every hour) to 2/6 (4 min every hour) to get it back to around 420ppm.

Is this the right way to raise it safely. My alk has been falling with every increase in calcium (9.9 on 1/31 and 9.5 on 2/6). MG has been 1410 on both 1/31/ and 2/6

I havent measured this week yet. I am seeing some of my corals acting strange. My green slimer has burnt tips and is browning out on most branches. My tricolor valida is bleaching out on some of the tips.My strawberry shortcake is losing its color but still have polyp extension. My sunset millipora has tips that are dying on the inside, but the outside tips are hairy and good color.

Is it because of the change in calcium/alk? I am trying to raise calcium to accomodate the coral load gradually, but in 3 weeks with raising, the levels have not increased at all. Should I dose a large batch at once to raise it based on the calculator at BulkReefSupply.com?

I normally check my parameters on the weekend before I do a water change. I change 25 gallons weekly of a 125 gallon tank with 25 gallon sump. I used Red Sea Coral Pro.

Eventually, shouldnt I get to a point in the dosing of the calcium where I will have 420 after a water change and then 420 at the end of the week before the next water change?

[mrbigshot]

i have always raised the mag and than just dumped the calcium in a few minutes after. neither of those are something you have to raise slowly. as long as there's enough mag in the tank the calcium wont precipitate out. alk changes will burn tips quite easily though.

your calcium will fall all week unless its being replenished daily by dosing/ reactor/ or possibly kalkwasser if its a low/ med demand tank. a tank full of sps kalk wont be enough though.

[jharding08]

Will sps burn with Alk dropping from 10 to 9? I have a ulns. 0 Po4 and 0 NO3. My pH has also dropped. If it is calibrated correctly, it only gets to 7.5 during the day.

Could it be because I don't have any Windows open or people/plants are taking up all the CO2 in the room?

[bertoni]

Assuming the measurements are accurate, I doubt that the calcium or alkalinity supplementation itself is the problem. Most often, we recommend no more than 100 ppm of calcium per day. Given the situation, I would dose the tank up to at least 380 ppm in one shot. Calcium at that level might be an issue for stony corals, although it's possible that the coral problems are due to something else entirely.

That change in alkalinity is very small, and corals tend to have more problems with the higher alkalinity levels, rather than lower levels.

[jharding08]

So based on the BRS calculator for calcium in a 140 total volume tank, raising calcium from 330 to 380 ppm (50 ppm raise), I would need 716.4 ml.

I am dosing using a drews doser (1.6 ml.min) for 4 min for 7 hours a day. That is 44.8 ml per day total.

If I do the calcium calculator for 330-331 (1 ppm raise) it is 14.3 ml, so 14.3ml/ppm?

If that is accurate then I am only raising my ppm around 3 ppm, and that is before the maintenance levels.

Does this seem right? Should I just measure out 716 ml and dump it in on top of the dosing schedule per day and see where that gets me?

[jharding08]

I can think of why the corals would bleach out on the tips or get burnt other than alkalinity. My pH has been low as well, 7.5 max. Could it be from not having the windows open all winter?

I have also been running GFO to take care of a PO4 problem I had when one of my tunzes came unplugged and I didnt notice it at the same time as I was away and was autofeeding pellet food (too much). I had been running 1 cup GFO and cut that in half two weeks ago to 1/2 cup. I turned it off yesterday to see if things improve.

My nutrients were 0 PO4 and 0 Nitrate, so it could be beneficial to allow some nutrients to stay around.

[bertoni]

If you're very worried, you could try dosing half of the recommended amount. Then measure the level after a few minutes, and work from there. I'd just dump the supplement into the tank.

[jharding08]

Originally Posted by bertoni

If you're very worried, you could try dosing half of the recommended amount. Then measure the level after a few minutes, and work from there. I'd just dump the supplement into the tank.

Does 3 cups (716 ml) of calcium carbonate sound right to raise 140g 50 ppm?

When is the best time to test the calcium if I do weekly water changes and am going to put this large one time dose in?

I would assume testing right after the water change but before the large addition, then after the large addition , then right before the next water change a week later to see the supply vs. demand after a week.

[bertoni]

That amount sounds about right. I would test right before adding the supplement, and then maybe 10 minutes later, to see how accurate the volume estimate is. After that, if you dose a 2-part, testing alkalinity daily for a while and calcium maybe weekly should be a good way to get a trend line. There is too much noise in our calcium kits to make daily testing useful, at least as compared to testing alkalinity.

[jharding08]

What kind of behavior does the alkalinity exhibit when increasing calcium that much?

[bertoni]

If all the test kits are correct, there won't be a measurable change in the alkalinity directly due to the dosing. On the other hand, I'd expect a substantial increase in the consumption rate if the corals aren't otherwise limited in their growth, because the calcium level currently is very low. Growth is hard to predict, though.

[jharding08]

I will test the big 3 (ca, alk, mg) before I add 1 cup of calcium choride and then measure 10-30 min later to see what effect it had. I will do a water change on sunday and measure before and after as well.

Here are some pics of the corals that have issues. They are mostly the larger colonies I have. Do larger colonies have more issues in a calcium deficient environment?

Sunset Millipora




Tri Color Valida



Green Slimer

[jharding08]

I tested my water at 10:15 today

Calcium - 350 ppm
Alkalinity - 9.75 dKH
Magnesium - 1440 ppm
PO4 - 0
PH - 7.39

I added 2 cups of calcium chloride from the dosing container directly to the sump

At 10:30 am I measured again
Calcium - 380 ppm
Alkalinity - 9.75 dKH

I plan on measuring again before I do my water change on sunday to see how close the doser is to maintaining the CA levels. If the doser is keeping up, then I will measure after the water change and see if it got to around 420. If not , I will add more now that I know how many ppm a cup gives me (~15)

I can also turn the dosers up if they are falling behind and monitor that.

Good to see my alk wasnt affected. Could the damage to the corals above be from calcium? Also, why is my pH low at 7.39 if alk is somewhat high?

[bertoni]

That pH reading is low enough that I'm skeptical about its accuracy. Most often, levels like that are due to calibration issues or electrical interference. I probably would ignore it, personally, but you could try a calibration and cleaning routine, or try turning off various pieces of electrical equipment to see what happens. My pH meter wouldn't read properly when the lighting was on, for example.

[jharding08]

Originally Posted by bertoni

That pH reading is low enough that I'm skeptical about its accuracy. Most often, levels like that are due to calibration issues or electrical interference. I probably would ignore it, personally, but you could try a calibration and cleaning routine, or try turning off various pieces of electrical equipment to see what happens. My pH meter wouldn't read properly when the lighting was on, for example.

Ive always had issues with the Apex Ph probe when trying to calibrate it. It says to wait until the numbers stop moving, but they never do.

What do you think could be causing those corals to burn out? I spent all day yesterday installing a new frag tank, so I didnt get a chance to test the params with the water change on the display, but it was at 380. Is it still too low?

I guess once I get to 420 Ca/ 8 Alk / 1400 Mg/ 0 PO4 /0 NO3 I can see what happens in the tank.

I have some Reef Energy ready to try once everything is stable

[bertoni]

The constantly moving numbers make me think there's electrical interference. That's the exact way my pH meter responded whenever the tank lights were on.

I don't know what's happening to the corals, but I'd give them a couple of weeks to recover once the tank hits 400 ppm. Something else might be bother them, but it's hard to be sure when the parameters were that far off.

[jharding08]

On Wed, I put another cup of Calcium Choride in the tank and measured the Calcium level yesterday. It is at 400, Alk is still at 9.6, and Mg at 1400. I will measure before I do water change on Saturday to see what the calcium drain/demand is and if my dosing is keeping up. I want to get up to 420, so I may drop another cup of CaCl2 in at some point next week,or see if the water change brings it up past 400

[jharding08]

On the tricolor valida and the green slimer, the damage is done on the top part or the tips of the coral I am noticing that my flame angel, rabbitfish and tangs are nipping at it now They didnt before.

Is this because the flesh is already dead and easier for them to get to, or could they be hungry? I am feeding them the same as always, even more nowadays.

[bertoni]

Why fish start nipping at corals is hard to guess. Flame angels are known to nip at corals. I though most tangs were better about that, so I'd start feeding a bit more and see what happens.

[jharding08]

The flame angel just started nipping since the tissue necrosis started. Same for the rabbitfish.

I did a water test on Monday. CA - 400, Alk 9.6, MG 1440, PO4 - .03, NO3-2

Could it be possible that I have some other contaminates that ROX carbon could help with?

My RODI unit shows error on the outbound of the DI canister. I replaced the sediment block, carbon blocks and the DI resin only a couple months ago, so unless its the RO membranes (2-3 years old), the RODI water should be fine.

I have some carbon, just wondering if I should load it up in a reactor

[bertoni]

Hmm, it's possible that they are going after the coral as it's dying.

Those levels all are acceptable, in my opinion. There could be contaminants or toxins, so a bit of carbon might help. In reality, though, carbon seems to have a low probability of success, although I'd give it a shot.

[jharding08]

Some things I have noticed.
1. My TDS meter on my RODI unit has always been a pain. I've replaced it but get 'ERR' on the OUT side. It was working today and it showed the IN at .06 and the OUT at .12. If that is correct, I that could be the issue with the corals dying, right? Ive replaced the sediment and carbon blocks not even 3 months ago. Same for the DI resin. Could it be the RO membranes? I might just replace it all, my house water is junk

2. How do I add ROX 0.8 carbon to a TLF 150 reactor? In my BRS reactor, I used two sponges to hold it in place at the top of the reactor so it didnt tumble. The TLF 150 has two sponges by the plastic plates, shoudl I use one from my other TLF to keep it towards the top. I noticed it floats a bit in the water of the reactor.

3. I think I figured out the PH meter. Needed to let it sit for like 10 minutes to settle.

[bertoni]

Hmm, if the TDS meter is correct, I'd start adding some Amquel or Prime to the output water, and get a replacement DI cartridge ASAP. If the RO membrane is bad, the DI cartridge will die rapidly. I'd get a reliable TDS meter, and measure the input and output of the RO membrane phase, and work from there.

You can use carbon in the filter if you lower the flow rate or reverse the input and output flow. The sponges would help if they would stay in place. Reversing the flow will be less efficient in its use of media, but might be good enough for your system.

[jharding08]

I think I am just going to replace all 5 stages (+extra ro membrane) of the Rodi just to be safe. I've replaces the BRS online tds meter multiple times. Not sure they are best. What is a better alternative?

I added 1 cup of carbon to the TLF 150 and put an extra separate in it. The carbon rose a bit but is staying in between the sponges. Not sure how much flow I should put through it. I have it just more than a slow drip out of the output. The carbon Def isnt tumbling

[bertoni]

I have the HM Digital COM-100 meter and it seems to be very good, but a bit pricey at about $75.