Help me pick my mantis

[Stork141]

Hey guys so I need some help. So I'm setting my mantis tank back up and could use some help on picking what mantis I should house.
Tank specs:
40g breeder drop off tank
20g sump
Asm mini skimmer
Wp25 power head
2x165w LEDs

So about the tank. The tank was used for my peacock that was 6+". I built a drop off to the tank with a L shaped tunnel that goes through the drop off portion. The tunnel is 2" wide that's 9" long. Looks like a ant farm. I built a door on it so when closed it black but you can open and see what's going on.
Really enjoyed my peacock but she wouldn't let any snails or hermits live so keeping the tank clean was a bit of a pain. I was able to keep some damsels in the tank for some movement.
Tank will be stocked with mainly sps corals with a couple lps.
So my question is what would work well in this tank. Loved watching my peacock smash anything added to the tank but due to her size she was able to tank down even the biggest turbos I could find.

My Lfs had a amazing looking all red smasher mantis about 4" but was about 1/2-3/4" thick so not sure if it would like such a large burrow that my peacock loved.
Do I go with a spearer to let the cuc do its thing or do I stay with a smasher to have some fish. Also what would like to use such a large burrow?
Any help would and will be appreciated.

[Halfpikant]

I'm not an expert, but if you want a smaller and hardy mantis a Gonodactylus smithii or a Neogodactylus wennerae may be worth looking in to.

N wennerae

G smithii

[Martini5788]

I would go with another peacock and find a smaller specimen

[Stork141]

Would a small mantis use such a large burrow? Seems like they would feel uncomfortable in a borrow that is so big. If anyone has any info on that id be very interested in going with a smaller mantis

[Martini5788]

Do you have a picture of the tank with burrow so we can see exactly what you are dealing with?

[Stork141]

[IMG][/IMG]

This is what it looks like

[nmotz]

That's an interesting set-up and since you've already had a Peacock I would recommend getting another one since the burrow is large and custom made for a Peacock. Most other species will use PVC if they have to but only Peacocks and larger spearer mantis shrimp really need it in the home aquarium.

[Stork141]

Ya my 1st peacock ended up getting stuck in its molt and died sadly. I had no idea until a couple days later when I started breaking down his cave to see if everything was ok. I then built this as a way to always be able to see if everything is ok when they fully enclose their burrow for molts.

Do you have any good ideas for what to use as a cuc with the bigger guys. I really like the all red smasher at the Lfs but just think that the burrow is way too big for it.

[nmotz]

In my experience, the larger snails were usually left alone. It depends on the individual mantis really. You'll want to be prepared to make do without a CUC of course. There are some ways to address matters of tank cleanliness without a CUC, but it is part of the game with a mantis! My Peacock just started killing the bigger snails that i had so I have to go get some more myself. I also have success with small hermit crabs (blue legs) but they aren't as effective at cleaning the tank as snails in my opinion.

[Martini5788]

Urchin maybe?

[Stork141]

Ya I tried all kinds of stuff with my last one. She must have just been a mean sob haha. So the best idea would be to go with another peacock?

[nmotz]

I think so, but get what you want. You can make another mantis work in that set-up but it does seem more ideally suited for a Peacock.

[Calappidae]

That is a very interesting burrow design. How big is that exactly? It looks horizontally short for a Peacock (O. scyllarus).

Is there anyway for water circulation so it doesn't become a stagnant ammonia trap?

[Kharn]

I'm surprised no one has mentioned (although I only skimmed it all briefly).

That it's not always a "choice" of picking and choosing but more so of capitalizing on situations where certain desired specimens pop up for sale.

Having said the above I am not aware of your stock availability but I go with what I first stated, grab what you want as it appears.

Example: I still have a prepaid order with a reputable aquarium for a mated pair of L.maculata...since 2006.

[nmotz]

BlueZoo has two not-yet full grown Peacocks in right now if you don't mind paying top dollar. One is less than 3.5" and I highly recommend starting with a younger specimen if you can.

[Stork141]

Calappidae- Yes there is a 1/2" hole that is right next to the opening where i run a pipe from my return pump. This way there is always flow moving from the top down through the burrow. Vertically its 6" and horizontally its 12".

Kharn- you are very correct. I have my lfs on the hunt for peacocks but was just curious if i could do another mantis in this burrow. I wish i could have gotten a pic of that red guy so you guys could have identified it for me. Great coloration to it.
Kharn would you have any ideas on what else would work in this tank?
Nmotz- my lfs gets in a pretty good selection of mantis and or the owner always lets us know when they pop up on his order list which is really nice.

[Stork141]

From what I've been reading peacocks are some of the best larger mantis species that do well in a heavily lit sps reef. Anyone know any other species that would work well in a sps reef. Tank will be lit with 400watts of LEDs to give you any idea.

[Calappidae]

Originally Posted by Stork141

From what I've been reading peacocks are some of the best larger mantis species that do well in a heavily lit sps reef.

Very opposite, O. scyllarus are best suited for dimly lit aquariums as high ammounts of lighting can help contribute to shell rot growth. They can live in these conditions like any other stomatopod, but out of all of them O.scyllarus suffers the biggest negative impact.

[nmotz]

Originally Posted by Calappidae

Very opposite, O. scyllarus are best suited for dimly lit aquariums as high ammounts of lighting can help contribute to shell rot growth. They can live in these conditions like any other stomatopod, but out of all of them O.scyllarus suffers the biggest negative impact.

+1, lighting is less intense at the depths that O. Scyllarus call home. Brightly lit SPS tanks are possible, but more difficult

[Stork141]

Must have been reading that wrong the whole time. Any species that would do well in a heavily lit tank and would work in with my system? With my last peacock I had a mixed reef and only about 250 watts of light on it.

[Martini5788]

Originally Posted by Stork141

Must have been reading that wrong the whole time. Any species that would do well in a heavily lit tank and would work in with my system? With my last peacock I had a mixed reef and only about 250 watts of light on it.

O. Havanensis, look similar to peacock but used to very strong lighting in the keys and collected pretty shallow. I'm pretty sure atleast. If the water quality is good enough for sps then it should be fine for havanensis. They are fairly sensitive to parameters though, just like peacocks

[Kharn]

Peacocks / O.scyllarus

Are in my opinion the most difficult to care for commonly available species, of both smashers & spearers.

Due to their abnormal requirements and attentions, the peacocks are NOT the ambassadors of the Stomatopods HARDY Resilience (that goes to the small smashers who survive live rock curing process to hitchhike into aquariums).

Things Peacocks NEED for long term survival the smaller smasher...laugh at lol.

Most smaller smashers don't even know what shell rot is and yet it's practically the main killer of peacocks in aquariums.

The lighting issue with Peacocks stems from the water itself not directly the light.

So you CAN have 400watt lights etc. IF and ONLY IF your water quality is at a level where SPS corals are growing in your system (best laymen term for what is needed for peacocks water quality).

Superior Water quality = Any lighting.
Inferior Water quality = Little / NO lighting.

This water quality stems forth from your own personal systems design or care methods, for example I personally wouldn't be putting bright lights on a peacock tank unless I had a lot of the bells and whistles in filtration (Skimmer, RODI ATO, Reactors, Refugium, etc).

However I didn't have all that but because I knew the animal then the avg joe I never kept the lights on the tank above the peacock and I also kept the peacock in a tank attached to a much larger system increasing the overall water quantity which reduced the overall speed of parameter shifts which just meant slightly better water for slightly longer periods before water changes.

Then there is the burrows...in the wild these large smashers make very large burrows, I saw a doco where a peacock was making its burrow whilst a diver followed it and after around an hour the peacocks finished burrow was the size of the diver sitting on the seafloor beside it, this is something we simply cannot replicate in an aquarium.

The burrow must have a place of UTTER DARKNESS 0 LIGHT.
The burrow must have GOOD FLOW through its entirety.

Then finally if all goes well here we come to the damned dreaded molting and it's simply stated as this....

The larger the animal, the greater the risk of something going wrong during the molt that leads to its death and who is NOT to say that better water quality & better burrow design would make for a more successful molt...

So in the aquarium peacocks tend to die one of 2 ways.
- Shell Rot (poor water & lights).
- Molting (poor water & poor burrow / bad luck).

It's easy to want to impulse buy the most colorful stomatopod that happens to be the largest commonly available smasher.

[Stork141]

Thanks for the info guys. water quality should definitely be up to par but I don't want to risk the health of the peacock if there is a better species of mantis to go with. Ill keep looking through Roy's list and find ones that like high light. Speares are very cool so and I'm fine with jumping to something other than a smasher if it benefits the animal. I'll continue to dig. If you guys have any ideas I'd love to hear them. Should start to be able to post pics around Wednesday after the rock comes in.

[EI Gringo]

A large chiragra is a great tank of a smasher and I find mine to be just as active as any other I have had. You could possibly consider a pseudosquilla Ciliata which may allow you to have some large fish and some hard shelled CUC, any soft bodied CUC and small enough to catch fish will be anhialated ofcourse, plus they are quite boring, wish I could trade mine in for another mantis to tell you the truth :L

[nmotz]

Yeah I didn't really enjoy my P. Ciliata all that much. Gave him up to my local pet store eventually.

I'll second G. Chiragra, but in a 40 gallon tank I don't think they'd be as interesting. It would be better in a 20 gallon long or something like that.

Having the right mantis for the right size tank is really important. I had a G. Smithii in a 33 gallon long and he just got lost in there and I hardly ever saw him. He was always in the rocks.

Honestly, I'd go for a Peacock and just commit to keeping the water quality really clean. Looking at your equipment list you should be good to go. I have a 3.5" Peacock in a 40B with a skimmer and HOB refugium + LED lighting and he seems to be ok.