Cant keep macro alive

hotelbravo · 09/20/2016, 05:06 PM

I recently bought about 20 Shaving Brush and Halimeda and planted them in my open area in the sand bed. The shaving brush had began to sprout little ones right next to the main stalk and everything was looking good but then slowly they all started turning white and then the halimeda started turning white too.

I also have tried adding these type of macro that withered away quickly.

Caulerpa microphysa
Caulerpa prolifera
Caulerpa racemosa
Caulerpa nummularia

i currently have a small amount of dragons breath doing okay in the sump but thats about it.

my lighting on the sump is a 5k spectrum bulb in a heat lamp

the lighting on the main tank are x3 OR-T247s

my salinity is 1.025, ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-20, temp-81/82, po4-0.11

Michael Hoaster · 09/20/2016, 05:38 PM

It sounds like you may be difficient in a nutrient or two. Halimeda needs calcium, like corals. Also, have you tried adding iron, for the other macros? Mine love it.

The Carbon-Nitrogen-Phophate ratio for macros is in the neighborhood of 400-40-1. Nitrogen and phosphate are usually plentiful in aquariums. Carbon, the most important one, is often ignored.

Plants prefer CO2 as their carbon source. You can inject CO2, as I do, or add more fish, as they put out CO2.

It's not much, but I hope this helps!

hotelbravo · 09/20/2016, 05:54 PM

i have not tried adding iron, i would like to but my LFS only sells one product with iron in it and that "Fuel". i think reef nutrition is the brand but not 100%. i have little coral in the tank so not much is taking the calcium out of the water except the crazy amount of corraline algae i have all over the place.

as far as fish go i have 1 large goldentail moray eel and 1 snowflake eel. 4 chromis and 2 small mangrove snapper im about to remove. i have had a rash of diseases that has killed off all the tangs, angels, clowns, cardinals, and triggers. the disease was probably brought in by the small mangrove snapper that i foolishly caught out in the gulf and threw in the tank..

all that being said i do not think adding any fish for a long time will be a good idea. and carbon dosing seems like an expensive setup.. not sure what all that entails.

jraker · 09/20/2016, 06:16 PM

Injecting CO2 and other nutrients will help. Have you looked at Seachem's Flourish line of products? They are usually used in FW planted tanks, but can be used in saltwater to increase nutrients that plants need.

hotelbravo · 09/20/2016, 06:19 PM

well yes my LFS does have the flourish product but the owner has always told me not to put that in my tank as its freshwater only..

jraker · 09/20/2016, 07:35 PM

I think some people have had problems with flourish in the past, but I believe that some people use flourish iron to increase iron. If you want to increase nitrate and phosphate you can use chemicals such as potassium nitrate or potassium phosphate, which are readily available in bulk sizes on amazon. I think fuel is more meant for corals. On the chemical analysis of fuel, it has more amino acids than anything. I do think it could help grow macros, but not as much as other methods of adding CO2, PO4, and NO3, as these are the 3 main things macros use. As said above, you could inject CO2, add potassium nitrate, or add potassium phosphate.

mzkrista · 09/20/2016, 08:16 PM

Macro likes dirty water. Get some fish in there to pee and poop. Don't do too many water changes and use a good quality salt and check your parameters and when need be dose Alk and calcium or a supplement containing trace minerals. Also a good quality light. Lots of people try keeping there water too clean and find there macro dies. Macro needs phosphates and nitrates to survive

hotelbravo · 09/20/2016, 09:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mzkrista

Macro likes dirty water.My water is usually dirty, Get some fish in there to pee and poop. i had a large bioload before all the deaths and even then the macro death was still happening
Don't do too many water changes i only do once a month water changes which some say is not often enoughand use a good quality salt i use the crystal reef most of the time and check your parameters and when need be dose Alk and calciumnever checked my alk or calcium or a supplement containing trace minerals. Also a good quality light.i have the OR T247 fixures that are very strong i run them at 20% or i will bleach the anemones if i go any higher Lots of people try keeping there water too clean and find there macro dies.im not one that keeps water clean i suck at that Macro needs phosphates and nitrates to survivemy nitrates and phosphates are on the lower end of what they are normally.. 20 nitrates and .11 phosphates. my phosphates are normally in the .3 range which is pretty high

hotelbravo · 09/20/2016, 09:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jraker

I think some people have had problems with flourish in the past, but I believe that some people use flourish iron to increase iron. If you want to increase nitrate and phosphate you can use chemicals such as potassium nitrate or potassium phosphate, which are readily available in bulk sizes on amazon. I think fuel is more meant for corals. On the chemical analysis of fuel, it has more amino acids than anything. I do think it could help grow macros, but not as much as other methods of adding CO2, PO4, and NO3, as these are the 3 main things macros use. As said above, you could inject CO2, add potassium nitrate, or add potassium phosphate.

looking at alot of the mineral content in the flourish products i dont think i want to try this.. it contains copper....

jraker · 09/21/2016, 05:36 AM

That's fine if you don't want to try it. I understand the concern with copper, and there are other ways of dosing nutrients. Fuel also does have iron, but in amounts so low it doesn't harm anything. I haven't ever heard of anyone having problems with Flourish Iron, but I have never tried it myself.

Michael Hoaster · 09/21/2016, 09:31 AM

The needs of planted tanks v reef tanks are vastly different.

For example, I am currently injecting CO2, dosing iron, and ammonia, in my planted tank.

It takes a big commitment to very different methods, when switching from reef to plants. It doesn't sound like you are there. More like you'd like to add a few plants to your reef. Red macros are your best bet, since they grow slower and need less nutrients.

jayball · 09/21/2016, 10:35 AM

RHF has a DIY formula for iron dosing here:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

You also need to keep your CA and ALK (and by extension MG) in line for most calcified macro to stay happy.

EDIT: Even better look here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1807946 to just use fergon (It is usually hard to find on the shelf, they never seem to with the other iron suppliments, but any CVS or wallgreens will carry it)

hotelbravo · 09/21/2016, 11:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Hoaster

The needs of planted tanks v reef tanks are vastly different.

For example, I am currently injecting CO2, dosing iron, and ammonia, in my planted tank.

It takes a big commitment to very different methods, when switching from reef to plants. It doesn't sound like you are there. More like you'd like to add a few plants to your reef. Red macros are your best bet, since they grow slower and need less nutrients.

You are right that I am not there yet. however I would like to be. when I first started this hobby a full planted tank was my goal but quickly switched when I ran into trouble with some species of macro. Now I want to try again which is why ive been trying some more macro. So what exactly do I need to do in order to have a successful planted tank? you say injecting CO2? but what does that actually mean? how do I do that and what all equipment will I need

hotelbravo · 09/21/2016, 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayball

RHF has a DIY formula for iron dosing here:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry

You also need to keep your CA and ALK (and by extension MG) in line for most calcified macro to stay happy.

EDIT: Even better look here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1807946 to just use fergon (It is usually hard to find on the shelf, they never seem to with the other iron suppliments, but any CVS or wallgreens will carry it)

the Advanced Aquarist article was very informative thank you, also the iron supplement was a good idea I will try to look into that. do I need a doser for this or can I mix it up into water and then pour into the tank all at once?

jayball · 09/21/2016, 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hotelbravo

the Advanced Aquarist article was very informative thank you, also the iron supplement was a good idea I will try to look into that. do I need a doser for this or can I mix it up into water and then pour into the tank all at once?

from the thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Randy Holmes-Farley

Well, I have many times

, but I've recently gone to recommending a DIY using Fergon tablets from the drug store:

Take 1 tablet and dissolve in 100 mL RO/DI (overnight soak). Let the solids settle out and use the liquid. Then I dose about 1-5 mL to my 200 gallons (dose is not critical) occasionally.

so not all at once, start on the low end of his recommendation and go from there.

Michael Hoaster · 09/21/2016, 01:23 PM

OK, lots of folks have success with macros without CO2. It is very popular with the fresh water plant people.

Here's how I inject it:

I rent a 5lb tank of CO2 from my local Airgas location. When I run out, I return it and they rent me another one, for around $15. I replace 3-4 times a year. Then you need a CO2 regulator. These go for a little over $100. You need this to precisely control the flow of CO2. Then you need some airline tubing, with an inline check valve, to prevent water flowing back into the regulator. Run the tubing from the regulator (which is screwed onto the top of the tank) to the intake of a pump or external canister filter, which is what I do. I drilled a 1/4" hole into the intake tube and pushed the end of the airline tubing into it. So, as the canister sucks in water, it also sucks in bubbles of CO2.

That's it basically. Let me know if you have questions.

hotelbravo · 09/21/2016, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jayball

from the thread:

so not all at once, start on the low end of his recommendation and go from there.

I got caught up at work and could not finish the article I'll look again about my question

hotelbravo · 09/23/2016, 05:41 PM

Finished reading the article and have been convinced to start dosing iron. i also weighed the risks with the copper in the flourish product and have decided to try using that aswell but the flourish excel not the flourish iron. i will be buying an iron tablet. i was wondering if someone can give me details on which iron supplement additives to stay away from. the thread that was supplied did not specify it was vague on what additives were bad and what were okay.

also since im planning on doing all of this i wanted to try again with a variety of macro.. does anyone know someone who is trimming back on some macro??

hotelbravo · 09/28/2016, 09:26 PM

okay i guess no one has input on the iron dosing. how about another question.

i have three OR T247 light fixtures over my tank. i have them at 30% whites and 45% blues. i feel like its to bright for my caulerpa but not sure... what percentage do you guys think is a safe percentage?? my caulerpa has recently started to turn clear on the ends and some pieces are falling off.

Synden · 09/28/2016, 10:28 PM

I would say, for plants, white and blues are the totally wrong spectrum. Caulerpa will somewhat grow under blues, but plants really need a 5k-7k spectrum range, with more red and yellow in the light.

Michael Hoaster · 09/29/2016, 08:05 AM

Caulerpa is a shallow water species. I don't think it's possible to light it too brightly. When it starts to go clear and break off, it is trying to feed itself by sacrificing some of the plant. This points to nutrient limitation.

With planted tanks, you've really got to throw away the "reef book".

hotelbravo · 09/29/2016, 11:05 AM

Okay well my LFS owner was wanting me to hold off on adding anything else to the tank and dosing nutrients. He wants to see if whatever was killing all my fish ends up manifesting itself in one way or another.

So do you think if I turned my lights up brighter it would be okay? Even if they are the wrong spectrum? Also how expensive would it be to supplement some light to the tank of the tank is 6ft long? I would not replace the lights currently on it but maybe can squeeze some bulb lights next to them

09/20/2016, 05:06 PM	#1
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	Cant keep macro alive I recently bought about 20 Shaving Brush and Halimeda and planted them in my open area in the sand bed. The shaving brush had began to sprout little ones right next to the main stalk and everything was looking good but then slowly they all started turning white and then the halimeda started turning white too. I also have tried adding these type of macro that withered away quickly. Caulerpa microphysa Caulerpa prolifera Caulerpa racemosa Caulerpa nummularia i currently have a small amount of dragons breath doing okay in the sump but thats about it. my lighting on the sump is a 5k spectrum bulb in a heat lamp the lighting on the main tank are x3 OR-T247s my salinity is 1.025, ammonia-0, nitrite-0, nitrate-20, temp-81/82, po4-0.11 __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.

09/20/2016, 05:38 PM	#2
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	It sounds like you may be difficient in a nutrient or two. Halimeda needs calcium, like corals. Also, have you tried adding iron, for the other macros? Mine love it. The Carbon-Nitrogen-Phophate ratio for macros is in the neighborhood of 400-40-1. Nitrogen and phosphate are usually plentiful in aquariums. Carbon, the most important one, is often ignored. Plants prefer CO2 as their carbon source. You can inject CO2, as I do, or add more fish, as they put out CO2. It's not much, but I hope this helps! __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

09/20/2016, 05:54 PM	#3
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	i have not tried adding iron, i would like to but my LFS only sells one product with iron in it and that "Fuel". i think reef nutrition is the brand but not 100%. i have little coral in the tank so not much is taking the calcium out of the water except the crazy amount of corraline algae i have all over the place. as far as fish go i have 1 large goldentail moray eel and 1 snowflake eel. 4 chromis and 2 small mangrove snapper im about to remove. i have had a rash of diseases that has killed off all the tangs, angels, clowns, cardinals, and triggers. the disease was probably brought in by the small mangrove snapper that i foolishly caught out in the gulf and threw in the tank.. all that being said i do not think adding any fish for a long time will be a good idea. and carbon dosing seems like an expensive setup.. not sure what all that entails. __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.

09/20/2016, 06:16 PM	#4
jraker Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 1,421	Injecting CO2 and other nutrients will help. Have you looked at Seachem's Flourish line of products? They are usually used in FW planted tanks, but can be used in saltwater to increase nutrients that plants need. __________________ "I glue animals to rocks" Current Tank Info: 36 gallon reef, 65 gallon Caribbean Biotope macroalgae and seagrass tank

09/20/2016, 06:19 PM	#5
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	well yes my LFS does have the flourish product but the owner has always told me not to put that in my tank as its freshwater only.. __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.

09/20/2016, 07:35 PM	#6
jraker Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 1,421	I think some people have had problems with flourish in the past, but I believe that some people use flourish iron to increase iron. If you want to increase nitrate and phosphate you can use chemicals such as potassium nitrate or potassium phosphate, which are readily available in bulk sizes on amazon. I think fuel is more meant for corals. On the chemical analysis of fuel, it has more amino acids than anything. I do think it could help grow macros, but not as much as other methods of adding CO2, PO4, and NO3, as these are the 3 main things macros use. As said above, you could inject CO2, add potassium nitrate, or add potassium phosphate. __________________ "I glue animals to rocks" Current Tank Info: 36 gallon reef, 65 gallon Caribbean Biotope macroalgae and seagrass tank

09/20/2016, 08:16 PM	#7
mzkrista Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: North Ridgeville, Ohio Posts: 135	Macro likes dirty water. Get some fish in there to pee and poop. Don't do too many water changes and use a good quality salt and check your parameters and when need be dose Alk and calcium or a supplement containing trace minerals. Also a good quality light. Lots of people try keeping there water too clean and find there macro dies. Macro needs phosphates and nitrates to survive

09/21/2016, 05:36 AM	#10
jraker Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 1,421	That's fine if you don't want to try it. I understand the concern with copper, and there are other ways of dosing nutrients. Fuel also does have iron, but in amounts so low it doesn't harm anything. I haven't ever heard of anyone having problems with Flourish Iron, but I have never tried it myself. __________________ "I glue animals to rocks" Current Tank Info: 36 gallon reef, 65 gallon Caribbean Biotope macroalgae and seagrass tank

09/21/2016, 09:31 AM	#11
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	The needs of planted tanks v reef tanks are vastly different. For example, I am currently injecting CO2, dosing iron, and ammonia, in my planted tank. It takes a big commitment to very different methods, when switching from reef to plants. It doesn't sound like you are there. More like you'd like to add a few plants to your reef. Red macros are your best bet, since they grow slower and need less nutrients. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

09/21/2016, 10:35 AM	#12
jayball Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Maryland Posts: 1,671	RHF has a DIY formula for iron dosing here: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2002/8/chemistry You also need to keep your CA and ALK (and by extension MG) in line for most calcified macro to stay happy. EDIT: Even better look here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1807946 to just use fergon (It is usually hard to find on the shelf, they never seem to with the other iron suppliments, but any CVS or wallgreens will carry it)

09/21/2016, 01:23 PM	#16
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	OK, lots of folks have success with macros without CO2. It is very popular with the fresh water plant people. Here's how I inject it: I rent a 5lb tank of CO2 from my local Airgas location. When I run out, I return it and they rent me another one, for around $15. I replace 3-4 times a year. Then you need a CO2 regulator. These go for a little over $100. You need this to precisely control the flow of CO2. Then you need some airline tubing, with an inline check valve, to prevent water flowing back into the regulator. Run the tubing from the regulator (which is screwed onto the top of the tank) to the intake of a pump or external canister filter, which is what I do. I drilled a 1/4" hole into the intake tube and pushed the end of the airline tubing into it. So, as the canister sucks in water, it also sucks in bubbles of CO2. That's it basically. Let me know if you have questions. __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

09/23/2016, 05:41 PM	#18
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	Finished reading the article and have been convinced to start dosing iron. i also weighed the risks with the copper in the flourish product and have decided to try using that aswell but the flourish excel not the flourish iron. i will be buying an iron tablet. i was wondering if someone can give me details on which iron supplement additives to stay away from. the thread that was supplied did not specify it was vague on what additives were bad and what were okay. also since im planning on doing all of this i wanted to try again with a variety of macro.. does anyone know someone who is trimming back on some macro?? __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.

09/28/2016, 09:26 PM	#19
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	okay i guess no one has input on the iron dosing. how about another question. i have three OR T247 light fixtures over my tank. i have them at 30% whites and 45% blues. i feel like its to bright for my caulerpa but not sure... what percentage do you guys think is a safe percentage?? my caulerpa has recently started to turn clear on the ends and some pieces are falling off. __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.

09/28/2016, 10:28 PM	#20
Synden Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2015 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 90	I would say, for plants, white and blues are the totally wrong spectrum. Caulerpa will somewhat grow under blues, but plants really need a 5k-7k spectrum range, with more red and yellow in the light.

09/29/2016, 08:05 AM	#21
Michael Hoaster Registered Seaweedist Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 5,807	Caulerpa is a shallow water species. I don't think it's possible to light it too brightly. When it starts to go clear and break off, it is trying to feed itself by sacrificing some of the plant. This points to nutrient limitation. With planted tanks, you've really got to throw away the "reef book". __________________ As many naturalists and environmentalists have suggested, we should set aside our arrogance, our desire to conquer and control everything, and walk hand in hand with Mother Nature. -Walter Adey Current Tank Info: 180g Seagrass Sandbar Lagoon, START DATE November 28, 2018

09/29/2016, 11:05 AM	#22
hotelbravo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 2,175	Okay well my LFS owner was wanting me to hold off on adding anything else to the tank and dosing nutrients. He wants to see if whatever was killing all my fish ends up manifesting itself in one way or another. So do you think if I turned my lights up brighter it would be okay? Even if they are the wrong spectrum? Also how expensive would it be to supplement some light to the tank of the tank is 6ft long? I would not replace the lights currently on it but maybe can squeeze some bulb lights next to them __________________ -Hodge Current Tank Info: 180 gallon, 40b sump. 3x OR T247 lighting, Reef Octopus protein skimmer, phosban 550 reactor, tunze ato, gyre xf 150, 2x mag 9.5 returns.