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Old 08/14/2017, 03:37 PM   #26
Cheapreef
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Yes there really is no way to Carbon dose and not skim, it's not going to work out well.


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Old 08/14/2017, 04:00 PM   #27
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^
always believed that you gotta have skimmer for carbon dosing, to remove the nutrients, and also for aeration for any bacterial blooms that depletes the O2 in the tank


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If my wallet was a reef tank, and my reef tank was a protein skimmer, and my money is organic waste, I'd have to say the protein skimmer is doing a superb job.
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Old 08/14/2017, 04:03 PM   #28
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oops sorry, he said "dosing and carbon"

i'm guessing he's meaning carbon media rather than carbon dosing.

in that case, good luck!

i believe there's a 0 water change reefing style called Triton, probably worth a little research just for the knowledge if nothing else.


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If my wallet was a reef tank, and my reef tank was a protein skimmer, and my money is organic waste, I'd have to say the protein skimmer is doing a superb job.
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Old 08/14/2017, 04:05 PM   #29
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I thought the same thing at first, but he says carbon dosing in post #24.


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Old 08/14/2017, 06:01 PM   #30
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How will you be exporting nutrients with carbon dosing with no skimmer? The stuff that you are growing with the carbon will just stay in the tank and be part of the N cycle, again.

You don't believe the chemistry that your bleach will turn into organic chloramines and that organic chloramines don't kill the stuff that you want to kill?

Your test is likely missing the organics that will be there in the water, thus no conversion to organic chloramines.


Export of bacterial biofloc from carbon dosing will be carried out by mechanical filtration, socks and floss in this case. This is much more effective than skimming.


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Old 08/14/2017, 06:02 PM   #31
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In other news, some goodies have arrived!


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Old 08/14/2017, 09:25 PM   #32
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Export of bacterial biofloc from carbon dosing will be carried out by mechanical filtration, socks and floss in this case. This is much more effective than skimming.


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I don't think you have researched it that well. Here is nice short thread that sums it up in the second post. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1929620


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Old 08/14/2017, 10:02 PM   #33
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I don't think you have researched it that well. Here is nice short thread that sums it up in the second post. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1929620
So, Why won't mechanical filtration work?
Not fine enough?


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Old 08/15/2017, 11:55 AM   #34
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How will you be exporting nutrients with carbon dosing with no skimmer? The stuff that you are growing with the carbon will just stay in the tank and be part of the N cycle, again.

You don't believe the chemistry that your bleach will turn into organic chloramines and that organic chloramines don't kill the stuff that you want to kill?

Your test is likely missing the organics that will be there in the water, thus no conversion to organic chloramines.

The bacteria generated from carbon dosing assimilate the N and P from the water column and not only can be removed by mechanical filtration, but will also serve as food for coral and other bacteria eating critters which in turn can provide a food source to corals and maybe even fish if the pod population increases. This pathway essentially recycles the inorganic P and N in the water column back into food for fish and corals. As such, less food needs to be added to the tank so there's a mechanism for lowering P and N in the water column.

Carbon dosing in reef aquaria should have been called bioflocculation as it is in the aquaculture industry. There they can control nutrients by putting in less food and have the shrimp or tilapia, as the case may be, take up the slack by eating the detritus formed from adding a carbon source which in aquaculture is usually molasses.

Another source of nutrient depletion from carbon dosing, which doesn't involve a skimmer or even a mechanical filter, is the use of the organic carbon as an energy source for denitrification in the anoxic zones in the tank. Nitrates are lowered without removal of detritus by the dissimilation of nitrate into nitrogen gas which degasses from the aquarium. This is one of the reasons nitrate usually drops proportionately faster than phosphate in a reef tank. Denitrification only lowers nitrate, not phosphate.



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Old 08/15/2017, 12:42 PM   #35
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I'm really curious how you make out on this, but I am very intereseted in your way of thining about this. You say

2. I also plan to be away from the tank for some time, so water changes won't be possible. I'm going no skimmer, no water changes, no fuge, no gfo, only dosing and carbon.

You'll be using filter floss and mech means instead of skimmer. If your away form the tank your filters are going to become plugged very fast with carbon dosing, trust me when I was running filter socks on my tank 3 days they would not flow any water.
So your filter becomes a nitrate factory if left too long. A skimmmer actually removes DOC instead of letting them sit in your tank and become a issue.


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Old 08/15/2017, 12:45 PM   #36
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Keep it commin'


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Old 08/15/2017, 02:57 PM   #37
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I'm really curious how you make out on this, but I am very intereseted in your way of thining about this. You say



2. I also plan to be away from the tank for some time, so water changes won't be possible. I'm going no skimmer, no water changes, no fuge, no gfo, only dosing and carbon.



You'll be using filter floss and mech means instead of skimmer. If your away form the tank your filters are going to become plugged very fast with carbon dosing, trust me when I was running filter socks on my tank 3 days they would not flow any water.

So your filter becomes a nitrate factory if left too long. A skimmmer actually removes DOC instead of letting them sit in your tank and become a issue.


I completely agree with you, the mechanical filtration maintenance really needs to be kept up with this tank. The filter socks on this tank aren't the best so my plan is to replace filter floss every few days.

While I'm away I plan to have a friend change out the floss and fill the ato every few days.


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Old 08/16/2017, 06:45 PM   #38
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Subscribed. Thanks for documenting this interesting approach.


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Old 08/30/2017, 09:57 PM   #39
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Sorry for the slow updates. School keeps me busy! Here's some pics of the tank ready to go. Picked up some coral too!


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Old 08/31/2017, 07:12 PM   #40
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Looking good!
Let's see those corals when you have some time.


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Old 11/09/2017, 03:27 PM   #41
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon

Hello everyone and sorry for the long absence, dental school is a lot of work! Tank has been on cruise control with no water change from the inception. I have also been keeping true to the bleach dosing schedule. The only inhabitant as of now is a possum wrasse.

Coral has been doing well and no loses so far. Colors are subdued due to an accidental bleaching caused by the light being stuck on, and no measurable NO3 or PO4. My plans for the livestock are to add 2 clownfish of some sort, thatís probably it.

Here are some pics, I know itís not a good looking tank yet!! I went with some biodiversity in coral choices so I could see if this method would effect anything short term. I plan to trade out most of these with SPS frags. I was playing around with a fish eye as well so I apologize for the weird pictures.




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Old 11/09/2017, 03:29 PM   #42
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon




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Old 11/09/2017, 03:35 PM   #43
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100% Aquaculture, Bare Bones SPS Lagoon

Iíve also upgraded the stock return pump (211 gph) to the jebao dcs 2000 (520 gph), and added two random flow generator (RFG) nozzles from VCA. The jebao is LOUD but Iím hoping it will settle in. The flow in the tank is so much better and less linear now. Much less dead spots in the tank and the RFG create a wave action. Hopefully, this will help the SPS necrosis you can see in spots.




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Old 11/09/2017, 05:44 PM   #44
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SO far so good.. yes, corals do look a bit pale or browned out..
Still curious to watch the tank progress.


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Old 11/09/2017, 07:04 PM   #45
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SO far so good.. yes, corals do look a bit pale or browned out..
Still curious to watch the tank progress.
Agreed, they're on their way back at least! I'm curious as well. Part of the problem is it being such a new tank that everything is still settling in and being tweaked.


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Old 11/10/2017, 11:59 AM   #46
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Absolutely.. agreed. Your tank has a lot of maturing to do..


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Current Tank Info: 53x32.5x26 190g dt 60g of sumps 3 tank-100 gal frag system 4x AI prime 6xt5 3x150w mh. 4x maxspect gyre. Skimz Dual internal sicce pump skimmer Deltec PF601s ca rx+Kalk stirrer
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Old Yesterday, 03:54 PM   #47
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Did a bit of re-scaping. Iíll be away from the tank for 6 weeks. Interested to see what it looks like when I get back!




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