return pump size & skimmer size

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 05:15 AM

Hello,

The overflow that is installed is rated to 1000 gph which is way more than what is required, but I will have a gate valve on the drains to dial it down to my requirements.

The DT is approx 53 Gallons. The skimmer is rated up to 140 gph and I am looking for a flow rate of around 265 gph maximum which is 5 x the volume of my tank volume.

Should I go for a bigger skimmer and what size return pump would you recommend?

Any help would be great

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 06:18 AM

What is the expected head loss for the return pump? (height from sump water to highest point you need to pump water up to??)

Got a budget?
Want to run any reactors,etc.. off it too?
AC or DC pump?

Which skimmer are you looking at? brand/model number?
Did you mean the skimmer is rated up to 140 gallons? or does it really state a GPH rating

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 06:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

What is the expected head loss for the return pump? (height from sump water to highest point you need to pump water up to??)

1.4 metres

Got a budget?
Want to run any reactors,etc.. off it too?
AC or DC pump?

DC - $150

Maybe Reactors in the future

Which skimmer are you looking at? brand/model number?
Did you mean the skimmer is rated up to 140 gallons? or does it really state a GPH rating

Bubble Magus curve 5 - 140 gph

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishkeeprian

Bubble Magus curve 5 - 140 gph

What is the expected head loss for the return pump? (height from sump water to highest point you need to pump water up to??)

1.4 metres

Got a budget?
Want to run any reactors,etc.. off it too?
AC or DC pump?

DC - $150

Maybe Reactors in the future

Which skimmer are you looking at? brand/model number?
Did you mean the skimmer is rated up to 140 gallons? or does it really state a GPH rating

Bubble Magus curve 5 - 140 gph

ca1ore · 09/29/2017, 07:19 AM

Whether you need a bigger skimmer or not is a function of the bio-load in the tank, it has nothing to do with how many times you turn over the tank. 5x turnover sounds about right to me. I have generally picked skimmers 'rated' for double my display size.

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Whether you need a bigger skimmer or not is a function of the bio-load in the tank, it has nothing to do with how many times you turn over the tank. 5x turnover sounds about right to me. I have generally picked skimmers 'rated' for double my display size.

I may do a bit of research on Skimmers, but I really do need help on the return pump. I was thinking a Jeabo, but not sure on the model I need.

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 07:37 AM

The BM Curve 5 is rated for tanks up to 140 gallons (not GPH)..
It should be plenty for even a heavily stocked 53G tank..
I'm using the exact same one on my 80G tank..
I definitely would not recommend you go larger than that..

At one time the belief was that you tried to match the flow through your skimmer to be that of the flow through the sump so that it was processing all the water but we know thats goofy/inaccurate/hard to quantify for many reasons..

As for a recommendation on a DC pump for your tank with a $150 budget..
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vario...f-octopus.html (a bit more than your budget)
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet...ump-skimz.html

Or a Jebao DPC series (I run a Jebao DCP6500 on my 80G tank) and I run it at about 50% power.. You can pick up a DCP-5000 for under $100 easily.. "smart" move might be to pick up 2 at $80 or less a piece and have a backup just in case if you go that route..

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 07:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The BM Curve 5 is rated for tanks up to 140 gallons (not GPH)..
It should be plenty for even a heavily stocked 53G tank..
I'm using the exact same one on my 80G tank..
I definitely would not recommend you go larger than that..

At one time the belief was that you tried to match the flow through your skimmer to be that of the flow through the sump so that it was processing all the water but we know thats goofy/inaccurate/hard to quantify for many reasons..

As for a recommendation on a DC pump for your tank with a $150 budget..
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vario...f-octopus.html (a bit more than your budget)
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet...ump-skimz.html

Or a Jebao DPC series (I run a Jebao DCP6500 on my 80G tank) and I run it at about 50% power.. You can pick up a DCP-5000 for under $100 easily.. "smart" move might be to pick up 2 at $80 or less a piece and have a backup just in case if you go that route..

Would this be ok?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jebao-DCP-5...rds=jebao+5000

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fishkeeprian

Would this be ok?

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Jebao-DCP-5...rds=jebao+5000

Thats what I just said..

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You can pick up a DCP-5000...

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Thats what I just said..

Thank you

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 09:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

The BM Curve 5 is rated for tanks up to 140 gallons (not GPH)..
It should be plenty for even a heavily stocked 53G tank..
I'm using the exact same one on my 80G tank..
I definitely would not recommend you go larger than that..

At one time the belief was that you tried to match the flow through your skimmer to be that of the flow through the sump so that it was processing all the water but we know thats goofy/inaccurate/hard to quantify for many reasons..

As for a recommendation on a DC pump for your tank with a $150 budget..
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vario...f-octopus.html (a bit more than your budget)
https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet...ump-skimz.html

Or a Jebao DPC series (I run a Jebao DCP6500 on my 80G tank) and I run it at about 50% power.. You can pick up a DCP-5000 for under $100 easily.. "smart" move might be to pick up 2 at $80 or less a piece and have a backup just in case if you go that route..

slightly off topic but related question.
how do you like the dcp6500? how loud/quiet is it?
I don't expect any pump to be dead silent unless it is off, I am currently running a dcs-4000 (still test running with fresh water) and I can hear a whining sound. Its not super loud, but prefer if quieter. I tried a sound level meter app and it registers under 50db, which I suppose is already decent.
It is hard plumbed from pump to over the top return. It is running at 5 leds (which I think is equivalent to 65% of max rating), so if I get a dcp5000 or 6500, I may have to run it at 3 led or less. I just want to know if dcp pump has the whining sound as well. I don't think it is due to vibration, but don't know what is causing it.

I just ran the sound level app now at work, and it shows under 40db, equivalent to a quiet library.
maybe if I can keep the sound level of the tank to about 45db. not sure if that is expecting too much.

as an aside, the dcs4000 running at 5 leds consumes 23watts power, which is pretty darn good imho. jebao pumps are now like 4th generation with the dcp? or at least 3rd generation, from DC to DCS/DCT to DCP.

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 09:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

slightly off topic but related question.
how do you like the dcp6500? how loud/quiet is it?
I don't expect any pump to be dead silent unless it is off, I am currently running a dcs-4000 (still test running with fresh water) and I can hear a whining sound. Its not super loud, but prefer if quieter. I tried a sound level meter app and it registers under 50db, which I suppose is already decent.
It is hard plumbed from pump to over the top return. It is running at 5 leds (which I think is equivalent to 65% of max rating), so if I get a dcp5000 or 6500, I may have to run it at 3 led or less. I just want to know if dcp pump has the whining sound as well. I don't think it is due to vibration, but don't know what is causing it.

My DCP-6500 pump is DEAD silent as I have it running at 50% or so
I even have it hard plumbed all the way and no vibration mat at all..
Its inaudible/no vibration.. I will recommend them and tell people to go oversized so you aren't running near max which should also help with thermal issues that have plagued Jebao in the past (cheap/undersized supplies overheating)

I tried it in my garage in the sump (40b fully filled) for testing and it wasn't much louder at 100% but it could be heard... I didn't bust out the db meter though.. (should have)
Seem to remember that I noticed noise above like 75% or so..

Its a pretty darn quiet pump IMO though..
Far better than the DC12000 I had before.. Those had a "whine" at any level that could be heard outside the stand..

I can't hear the DCP at all.. even with doors open crouched down in front of it..

The "silent" bean animal drains are the only thing I can hear on my tank...barely and just because its an external vs internal setup (and my house is VERY quiet and I'm quite picky about noise)..
I'm very happy with the DCP so far..

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 10:16 AM

ok, I'm sold. I'll keep the dcs as a backup return pump.
I also read the dcp controller (from 5000 up), can go on increments of 1, so total 100 steps vs 10 steps for the old controller.

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 10:44 AM

one more question, in the amazon link above, you can see in the chart the control is from 65% to 100%. is that correct? or should it be from 30% to 100%?

When it ramps upon turning on, does the controller show the % ramping up?

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d0ughb0y

one more question, in the amazon link above, you can see in the chart the control is from 65% to 100%. is that correct? or should it be from 30% to 100%?

When it ramps upon turning on, does the controller show the % ramping up?

I noticed the 65 to 100, is that an error?

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 12:10 PM

Its 30 to 100%
At least on mine it is anyways..

I'll check when I'm home but I'm fairly sure I'm really only running at like 50 or so..

fishkeeprian · 09/29/2017, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Its 30 to 100%
At least on mine it is anyways..

I'll check when I'm home but I'm fairly sure I'm really only running at like 50 or so..

Checked and it's a typo it should be 30-100

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 12:24 PM

found this. it shows it starts from 30. though it does not look like it ramps up from 0.
on my dcs, when I press feed, and then feed again, it ramps up from 0. This video, it looks like it goes directly to 100%.

it does show it is completely silent when pump input and output are completely submerged.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/P_AB1WsfdpE

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 02:10 PM

I read in the amazon review saying it does not have soft start when going out of feed mode. so that confirms what is shown in the youtube video where it goes directly to 100%. I cannot find anything to confirm if normal power up has soft start or not. The fish-street and ebay listings do not mention anything about soft start.

can you confirm if there is soft start on power on and when going out of feed mode?

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 02:38 PM

It does soft start and I'm fairly sure it also does the same coming out of feed mode (just might show 100%) but I'm quite positive it soft starts on all occasions..

I'll confirm when I get home in an hour or so..

mcgyvr · 09/29/2017, 03:56 PM

yep. seems to always soft start

d0ughb0y · 09/29/2017, 11:35 PM

thanks. I just ordered from amazon.

d0ughb0y · 10/06/2017, 12:03 PM

got the dcp 5000. This thing is ginourmous compared to the dcs-4000.
I opened up the volute cover to check out the impeller. It's completely different from the previous generation pump.

I will test this later today or this weekend.

I noticed the dimension of the pump is exactly the same for dcp5000 and up. I wonder if the pump itself is the same and only difference is in the controller.

d0ughb0y · 10/06/2017, 07:16 PM

I installed it and all I can say is wow.

moondoggy4 · 10/06/2017, 08:57 PM

For a skimmer look at the Reef Dynamics INS80 at Aquarium Source for 179.00 I believe great skimmer likes 7" deep water for the sump.

Aqua Maxx S Co-1 appr. 279 dollars great skimmer. They can be found at Marine Depot.

09/29/2017, 05:15 AM	#1
fishkeeprian Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: England, Earl Shilton Posts: 1,452	return pump size & skimmer size Hello, The overflow that is installed is rated to 1000 gph which is way more than what is required, but I will have a gate valve on the drains to dial it down to my requirements. The DT is approx 53 Gallons. The skimmer is rated up to 140 gph and I am looking for a flow rate of around 265 gph maximum which is 5 x the volume of my tank volume. Should I go for a bigger skimmer and what size return pump would you recommend? Any help would be great

09/29/2017, 06:18 AM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	What is the expected head loss for the return pump? (height from sump water to highest point you need to pump water up to??) Got a budget? Want to run any reactors,etc.. off it too? AC or DC pump? Which skimmer are you looking at? brand/model number? Did you mean the skimmer is rated up to 140 gallons? or does it really state a GPH rating __________________ Who me? Last edited by mcgyvr; 09/29/2017 at 06:23 AM.

09/29/2017, 07:19 AM	#5
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Whether you need a bigger skimmer or not is a function of the bio-load in the tank, it has nothing to do with how many times you turn over the tank. 5x turnover sounds about right to me. I have generally picked skimmers 'rated' for double my display size. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

09/29/2017, 07:37 AM	#7
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	The BM Curve 5 is rated for tanks up to 140 gallons (not GPH).. It should be plenty for even a heavily stocked 53G tank.. I'm using the exact same one on my 80G tank.. I definitely would not recommend you go larger than that.. At one time the belief was that you tried to match the flow through your skimmer to be that of the flow through the sump so that it was processing all the water but we know thats goofy/inaccurate/hard to quantify for many reasons.. As for a recommendation on a DC pump for your tank with a $150 budget.. https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/vario...f-octopus.html (a bit more than your budget) https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/quiet...ump-skimz.html Or a Jebao DPC series (I run a Jebao DCP6500 on my 80G tank) and I run it at about 50% power.. You can pick up a DCP-5000 for under $100 easily.. "smart" move might be to pick up 2 at $80 or less a piece and have a backup just in case if you go that route.. __________________ Who me?

09/29/2017, 12:10 PM	#16
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	Its 30 to 100% At least on mine it is anyways.. I'll check when I'm home but I'm fairly sure I'm really only running at like 50 or so.. __________________ Who me?

09/29/2017, 10:16 AM	#13
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	ok, I'm sold. I'll keep the dcs as a backup return pump. I also read the dcp controller (from 5000 up), can go on increments of 1, so total 100 steps vs 10 steps for the old controller.

09/29/2017, 10:44 AM	#14
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	one more question, in the amazon link above, you can see in the chart the control is from 65% to 100%. is that correct? or should it be from 30% to 100%? When it ramps upon turning on, does the controller show the % ramping up?

09/29/2017, 12:24 PM	#18
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	found this. it shows it starts from 30. though it does not look like it ramps up from 0. on my dcs, when I press feed, and then feed again, it ramps up from 0. This video, it looks like it goes directly to 100%. it does show it is completely silent when pump input and output are completely submerged. https://www.youtube.com/embed/P_AB1WsfdpE

09/29/2017, 02:10 PM	#19
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	I read in the amazon review saying it does not have soft start when going out of feed mode. so that confirms what is shown in the youtube video where it goes directly to 100%. I cannot find anything to confirm if normal power up has soft start or not. The fish-street and ebay listings do not mention anything about soft start. can you confirm if there is soft start on power on and when going out of feed mode?

09/29/2017, 02:38 PM	#20
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	It does soft start and I'm fairly sure it also does the same coming out of feed mode (just might show 100%) but I'm quite positive it soft starts on all occasions.. I'll confirm when I get home in an hour or so.. __________________ Who me?

09/29/2017, 03:56 PM	#21
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	yep. seems to always soft start __________________ Who me?

09/29/2017, 11:35 PM	#22
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	thanks. I just ordered from amazon.

10/06/2017, 12:03 PM	#23
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	got the dcp 5000. This thing is ginourmous compared to the dcs-4000. I opened up the volute cover to check out the impeller. It's completely different from the previous generation pump. I will test this later today or this weekend. I noticed the dimension of the pump is exactly the same for dcp5000 and up. I wonder if the pump itself is the same and only difference is in the controller. Last edited by d0ughb0y; 10/06/2017 at 12:12 PM.

10/06/2017, 07:16 PM	#24
d0ughb0y Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: sf bay area Posts: 5,165	I installed it and all I can say is wow.

10/06/2017, 08:57 PM	#25
moondoggy4 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: menifee So cal Posts: 11,042	For a skimmer look at the Reef Dynamics INS80 at Aquarium Source for 179.00 I believe great skimmer likes 7" deep water for the sump. Aqua Maxx S Co-1 appr. 279 dollars great skimmer. They can be found at Marine Depot.