Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Special Interest Group (SIG) Forums > Large Reef Tanks
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 11/04/2017, 12:13 AM   #1
ozorowsky
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 263
ich a big issue in larger tanks?

Hi all,

I have a 55 gallon reef tank thats been running about 3 months now. I am finishing cycling/building a 340 gallon.

My hippo tang seems to have ich in my 55, and I'm trying to decide what to do here.

Should I buy a 3rd tank move the hippo there with copper?

Should I put him in 340 gallon tank once its cycled and let him out swim the ich?

Should I move all rocks/inverts/coral/sand to big tank let it sit for 76 days and treat copper in 55 gallon until the 76 day mark?

Trying to find easiest remedy here. None of the other fish show ANY signs of ich; but my blue tang is showing some. Debating if larger tank will have enough water volume to make ich a non issue?


ozorowsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 08:01 AM   #2
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
ich a big issue in larger tanks?

Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Should I buy a 3rd tank move the hippo there with copper?



Should I put him in 340 gallon tank once its cycled and let him out swim the ich?



Should I move all rocks/inverts/coral/sand to big tank let it sit for 76 days and treat copper in 55 gallon until the 76 day mark?

If one of your fish has ich, they all have it. From what I understand after 3-4 days of being on a fish, the ich falls off, makes home on the rock and sand, and then spawn where you get 100xís more in several days and the process starts all over again.

The other fish in your system most likely donít show signs, because they are healthy and not stressed out, which has allowed their immune system to fight it off; or because the Ich has attached to their gills and is not visible. Regardless, if one fish has it in your system, they all have it and are exposed to it. Think of it like being constantly around sick kids at school.... 90% of the time you will be perfectly fine as a healthy adult because your body and immune system can cope, but a few days of stress and lack of sleep and youíll be sick in no time.

I am by no means an expert of fish treatment but I have both treated and had fish that had Ich. One thing to know, is that for some reason, Tangs are a lot more susceptible to having an Ich outbreak. Some people believe this is the result of their slime coat being not as thick as some of the other fish, which makes it easier for the Ich to attach itself to the fishís skin.

The only way to get rid of Ich in your tank, is to leave it empty for 2 months. This starves the Ich out. For treating Ich on fish, there are medications, hypo-salinity (harder to implement successfully and causes some stress to the fish, and also the Ďtank transfer methodí. One thing I am certain of, is copper kills inverts and corals, so if you plan to dose your QT with copper with your snails and inverts inside, they will die. This is also one of the reasons why it is so extremely difficult to prevent and cure Ich; it can be on anything wet that you out into your system and while fish can be treated, it is significantly harder to treat corals and inverts. Some people honestly acknowledge that their systems most likely have Ich and work on providing their fish with healthy diet and little stress so that there is never an outbreak. Again, it is almost impossible to 100% guarantee that everything wet that is going into your tank is Ich free.

Honestly, treating a new fish as if it has Ich when you first buy it is a LOT easier than once itís in your system. I would say the vast majority of people have fish and thus systems that have Ich because of its reproduction cycles. Keeping your fish stress free, feeding them regularly will for sure help prevent an outbreak.

BRS did a YouTube episode on Ich and marine diseases You should check it out. Itís gives a high level overview of many of the common diseases and cures for them which you might find beneficial. They reference to numerous threads on here that help educate, inform and advise on how to prevent, cure and live with marine fish and some of the diseases.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD

Last edited by shaginwagon13; 11/04/2017 at 08:07 AM.
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 08:43 AM   #3
ozorowsky
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 263
How about i get a small 20gallon tank, put copper in move the tang to it let tang live there for 4weeks then move it to the big tank that has never had fish once it is ich free? Then repeat with other fish?


ozorowsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 09:17 AM   #4
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
How about i get a small 20gallon tank, put copper in move the tang to it let tang live there for 4weeks then move it to the big tank that has never had fish once it is ich free? Then repeat with other fish?
That would probabiby be your best bet, but so you plan to treat each fish for 6-8 weeks in the QT before they go into the new one?

And what do you do about the inverts?

Ich is such a pain to deal with itís too bad they canít create a Reef and Invert friendly medications to dose the main tank with.


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 11:02 AM   #5
falconut
Registered Member
 
falconut's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Blackwood, NJ
Posts: 3,788
I had a similar issue, too. Breaking down my 90 gallon & moving everything over to a new 180 gallon. I used some of the LR from the 90 to seed some dry sand & base rock. After tank cycled, all the fish transferred over slowly. Everything went perfect, well almost. A bought a few fish that were already quarantined, so they went right into the 180. Next day they were covered with ich. Pulled them & threw them in my old 90, which was still running. Apparently that was enough to get my other fish. The ich came & went on a few fish, then a few weeks later it came back on more fish. I had to pull all the fish & put them in the still running 90 & treated with cupramine for 30 days. I wouldn't take the chance of infecting your new tank, just treat all the fish. From now on, everything is getting treated before going into my tank, no matter where they come from.

If you use cupramine, raise the copper level up slowly. I took about a week to get to 0.4 & all my fish made it through fine, never stopped eating or anything. Good luck & yes this part of keeping fish sucks.


__________________
180 Gallon FOWLR, 40 Gallon Sump and 10 Gallon Refuge. (2) OceanRevive S026 LEDs, ASM G2 Skimmer & SCA-302 Skimmer. Setup since July 2017.
falconut is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 01:49 PM   #6
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
.... this might get a little more attention if it were in the fish disease section.


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 09:33 PM   #7
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
If one of your fish has ich, they all have it. From what I understand after 3-4 days of being on a fish, the ich falls off, makes home on the rock and sand, and then spawn where you get 100xís more in several days and the process starts all over again.

The other fish in your system most likely donít show signs, because they are healthy and not stressed out, which has allowed their immune system to fight it off; or because the Ich has attached to their gills and is not visible. Regardless, if one fish has it in your system, they all have it and are exposed to it. Think of it like being constantly around sick kids at school.... 90% of the time you will be perfectly fine as a healthy adult because your body and immune system can cope, but a few days of stress and lack of sleep and youíll be sick in no time.

I am by no means an expert of fish treatment but I have both treated and had fish that had Ich. One thing to know, is that for some reason, Tangs are a lot more susceptible to having an Ich outbreak. Some people believe this is the result of their slime coat being not as thick as some of the other fish, which makes it easier for the Ich to attach itself to the fishís skin.

The only way to get rid of Ich in your tank, is to leave it empty for 2 months. This starves the Ich out. For treating Ich on fish, there are medications, hypo-salinity (harder to implement successfully and causes some stress to the fish, and also the Ďtank transfer methodí. One thing I am certain of, is copper kills inverts and corals, so if you plan to dose your QT with copper with your snails and inverts inside, they will die. This is also one of the reasons why it is so extremely difficult to prevent and cure Ich; it can be on anything wet that you out into your system and while fish can be treated, it is significantly harder to treat corals and inverts. Some people honestly acknowledge that their systems most likely have Ich and work on providing their fish with healthy diet and little stress so that there is never an outbreak. Again, it is almost impossible to 100% guarantee that everything wet that is going into your tank is Ich free.

Honestly, treating a new fish as if it has Ich when you first buy it is a LOT easier than once itís in your system. I would say the vast majority of people have fish and thus systems that have Ich because of its reproduction cycles. Keeping your fish stress free, feeding them regularly will for sure help prevent an outbreak.

BRS did a YouTube episode on Ich and marine diseases You should check it out. Itís gives a high level overview of many of the common diseases and cures for them which you might find beneficial. They reference to numerous threads on here that help educate, inform and advise on how to prevent, cure and live with marine fish and some of the diseases.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I do not think you can rid a tank of ich. Fish immune system is the best defense against ich. I donít see fish in the wild with ich. Why is that? Fish eat live food which enhance fish immune system. In our reef tanks how can we feed live food? I use live mussels from the HEB seafood counter.

The reason I say you can not rid a tank of ich is because of a 500G extended system that I ran. Nothing had been added to system for 18 months. Following an electrical failure which stressed the tank, ich was everywhere. That told me that the 60 day time period to break life cycle of ich parasite was not true. That was over thirty years ago. I do not quarantine. I rely on live gut bacteria from bivalves to enhance fish immune system. I have received Blue Tangs with ich spots visible thru shipping bags. They went straight into 25 year old established tank. Everybody eat raw oysters for first meal. Spots on Hippo disappeared in two days and itching/scratching lasted one week.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 09:37 PM   #8
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I rely on live gut bacteria from bivalves to enhance fish immune system.

Everybody eat raw oysters for first meal.

Iím not sure I understand these two statements... what are bivalves?

Also, you feed new fish raw oysters after you add them to your system?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 10:23 PM   #9
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I do not think you can rid a tank of ich. Fish immune system is the best defense against ich. I donít see fish in the wild with ich. Why is that?.
Seriously? Seems self evident to me. Ich lifecycle produces many thousands of theronts because in the wild the chances of any single one encountering an acceptable fish host before it dies is very low. No such limitations in the confines of a home aquarium. THAT's why ich is so much more problematic in our tanks than in the expansive ocean. Also, 'immunity' to Ich is less about the immune system than it is the ability of a fish to maintain a slime coat. Diet is certainly a factor in this.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 11:34 PM   #10
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Seriously? Seems self evident to me. Ich lifecycle produces many thousands of theronts because in the wild the chances of any single one encountering an acceptable fish host before it dies is very low. No such limitations in the confines of a home aquarium. THAT's why ich is so much more problematic in our tanks than in the expansive ocean. Also, 'immunity' to Ich is less about the immune system than it is the ability of a fish to maintain a slime coat. Diet is certainly a factor in this.

Agree with one caveat. “Ich is less about the immune system”. I could not disagree more. First, what makes a healthy slime coat seperate from healthy immune system. Second, I have seen certain fish exhibit ich in slime coat but never show any other symptoms with spots disappearing. No other fish showed symptoms. Please explain that to me. Remember, I have been doing this for 45 years.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/04/2017, 11:38 PM   #11
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Iím not sure I understand these two statements... what are bivalves?

Also, you feed new fish raw oysters after you add them to your system?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Live gut bacteria exist in shellfish with a hinge: bi-valve includes oysters, clams and mussels.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 06:58 AM   #12
ozorowsky
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 263
Ive heard two sides to this. Ive heard you can eliminate ich and ive heard you can manage it with a healthy tank. Idon't know which way to believe anymore.

That's the reason i posted this here. Wondering if in alarger tank things will be more ocean like than a smaller tank and ich will be less of an issue


ozorowsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 07:03 AM   #13
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Ive heard two sides to this. Ive heard you can eliminate ich and ive heard you can manage it with a healthy tank. Idon't know which way to believe anymore.

That's the reason i posted this here. Wondering if in alarger tank things will be more ocean like than a smaller tank and ich will be less of an issue
I agree, it is super confusing. But those that claim they have cured Ich completely from their tanks, I have also read a lot that Ich sometimes hides out in the gills of the fish; out of sight. So unless the person took the fish out and took samples, I doubt they would even really know.

IMO all pet environments are not 100% comfortable for the species. I mean millions of years in the ocean, even with tank bred fish, still it’s not the natural environment it’s genetically adapted to. I think that this alone adds even the slightest amount of stress to the fish just simply not being in their natural environment. I’m sure larger tanks might be ‘better’ in the sense that it’s a little harder to have water parameters go off, compared to smaller water volume tanks. The more stable the tank is, that imo lessens the stress in the fish in itself.


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 07:30 PM   #14
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
Agree with one caveat. ďIch is less about the immune systemĒ. I could not disagree more. First, what makes a healthy slime coat seperate from healthy immune system. Second, I have seen certain fish exhibit ich in slime coat but never show any other symptoms with spots disappearing. No other fish showed symptoms. Please explain that to me. Remember, I have been doing this for 45 years.
Fair enough on your first point, I'd actually agree that the ability to produce a protective slime coat could be considered as part of the totality of the immune system. Really not following you on your second point though. Fish can certainly exhibit the white telltale spots, only to have them disappear and not return. Why that is is ultimately speculative. Had my first tank 44 years ago, though perhaps that extra year imparts disproportionate levels of wisdom


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/05/2017, 07:37 PM   #15
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
Ive heard two sides to this. Ive heard you can eliminate ich and ive heard you can manage it with a healthy tank. Idon't know which way to believe anymore.

That's the reason i posted this here. Wondering if in alarger tank things will be more ocean like than a smaller tank and ich will be less of an issue
There are so many variables, it's hard to offer a single, blanket conclusion. Ich CAN be managed, though it can also wipe out your tank if left unchecked. My own opinion is that there are many different strains of ich with varying levels of potency. Two people with very different experiences may well be dealing with very different parasites. Often, the aquarist will think his or her tank is ich free only to observe symptoms when a highly susceptible fish is introduced (achilles tang as canary).

While dilution can be an effective remedy against ich, I highly doubt that any home aquarium regardless of size will be effective.


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 10:20 AM   #16
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Fair enough on your first point, I'd actually agree that the ability to produce a protective slime coat could be considered as part of the totality of the immune system. Really not following you on your second point though. Fish can certainly exhibit the white telltale spots, only to have them disappear and not return. Why that is is ultimately speculative. Had my first tank 44 years ago, though perhaps that extra year imparts disproportionate levels of wisdom

I don’t think one year makes much difference in the life of a reefer.

In the situation that I mentioned about receiving Blue Tang with white spots evident thru shipping bag from Divers Den. Remember Divers Den has quarantine > 60 days. Because the fish was on its side and breathing rapidly I released in into 25 year old display tank. Within two days ich spots disappeared. Within one week all itching and scratching stopped. No other fish in this twenty five year old 75G tank displayed symptoms.

Here is a video of that fish in that tank.


https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=FDt8QTAp0Cs

Do I think ich has disappeared from this tank? NO, it is dormant and alive. I have heard the, “ich in the gills”. Ich hidden in gills in not a reality. It has been offered as a truism to explain a contradiction in dogma for ich treatment in reef tanks.

I have read scientific papers on this issue. To fully understand one discrepancy is to look at the testing protocol and language. In discussing the different time frames for the different life stages of ich, one should examine in detail the language written about the dormat stage life cycle in substrate.

Most mature in “ X amount” of days caught my attention. It only takes one to begin the cycle.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

Last edited by Subsea; 11/06/2017 at 11:35 AM.
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 12:23 PM   #17
McPuff
Registered Member
 
McPuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,091
My advice is to remove all of your fish, take them through TTM (tank transfer method), QT them in another system for a couple weeks, then let them into your large system, which is hopefully devoid of anything from your infected system. This is really the only way to ensure that you do not get ich into your new system. Say what you will about managing ich, etc but the best way to manage it is to keep it out altogether. TTM method is easy, cheap, involves no medication, and is highly effective when done properly.


McPuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 12:24 PM   #18
shaginwagon13
Chartered Accountant
 
shaginwagon13's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 1,923
Quote:
Originally Posted by McPuff View Post
My advice is to remove all of your fish, take them through TTM (tank transfer method), QT them in another system for a couple weeks, then let them into your large system, which is hopefully devoid of anything from your infected system. This is really the only way to ensure that you do not get ich into your new system. Say what you will about managing ich, etc but the best way to manage it is to keep it out altogether. TTM method is easy, cheap, involves no medication, and is highly effective when done properly.
I am a little new to the 'preventative GT' stuff but I am a little confused because can't Ich also arrive on inverts?

Are you expected to do and follow the same ttm with those also?


__________________
- Shaginwagon -

Current Tank Info: 550 Gallon SPS Reef l 150 Gallon Sump l Skimmer: Vertex Alpha 250 l Return Pump: Reeflo Hammerhead l Tank Circulation: (2) Maxspect Gyre XF280 l Lighting: (3) 400w Halides & (3) AI Hydra 52 HD
shaginwagon13 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 12:40 PM   #19
ca1ore
Grizzled & Cynical

 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Stamford, CT
Posts: 16,268
Quote:
Originally Posted by Subsea View Post
I donít think one year makes much difference in the life of a reefer.

In the situation that I mentioned about receiving Blue Tang with white spots evident thru shipping bag from Divers Den. Remember Divers Den has quarantine > 60 days. Because the fish was on its side and breathing rapidly I released in into 25 year old display tank. Within two days ich spots disappeared. Within one week all itching and scratching stopped. No other fish in this twenty five year old 75G tank displayed symptoms.
Not sure I would have put an observably infected fish in my display, but I don't doubt your experience. I know I have ich in my system, yet my fish are asymptomatic. I know because on occasion a new fish will show spots briefly, and then be clear.

Was kidding on the one year ....


__________________
Simon

Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones!

Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs
ca1ore is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 09:23 AM   #20
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ca1ore View Post
Not sure I would have put an observably infected fish in my display, but I don't doubt your experience. I know I have ich in my system, yet my fish are asymptomatic. I know because on occasion a new fish will show spots briefly, and then be clear.

Was kidding on the one year ....

Your post should be highlighted on every reef hobbiest forum. Many mature reef tanks have dormant ich that may never show themselves until a strees event happens or a fish with a weakened immune system is introduced. When the stress event happens in the tank, I ask the question, does the parasite get stronger or does the host get weaker.


PS: PaulB told me that he feeds his 44 year old tank with harvested clams from Long Island Sound, after he eats the flesh. They get the hinge meat.

Coincidently, I went claming in L.I. Sound this August. My oldest brother and my youngest brother drove from Pittsburg to Patchouge on Long Island to visit extended family. On the second day there, our host took us claming close to Fire Island. I thought we had bad biting insects in South Louisiana. Horse flies near Fire Island got our Louisiana mosquitos beat. Anyway, for those not familiar with claiming, one method is walking on bottom moving foot left to right until you feel an irregularity on the sandy bottom. In vision this, three Cajun brothers barefooted, dragging their feet in the sand. Sounds like the lyrics to a song.

Asymptomatic discribes not showing symptoms. Most importantly is why did established fish in a reef tank not show symptoms of ich when tank had the parasite in it. I say it is all about fish immune symptoms. Nothing effects fish immune symptom more than the food that they eat. As we learn more about the human anatomy, live gut bacteria in our intestinal tracts are the “microbial overlords” to every function in the human body. Why should it be different in fish? I say, if live gut bacteria are that important, then I will provide for this boost to immune systems. I would much rather feed oysters than chemicals from a bottle.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout

Last edited by Subsea; 11/07/2017 at 09:38 AM.
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 09:39 AM   #21
ozorowsky
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 263
I am sitting here researching. Ibeen feeding Nouri every day twice a day andrew feeding frozen food 3x a day. Is there something else i should be feeding the fish to help them fend off ich? My hippo showing spots again today not sure what i can do for him. Seems healthy and happy as can be.


ozorowsky is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 10:00 AM   #22
Subsea
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Austin, Tx
Posts: 1,340
Quote:
Originally Posted by ozorowsky View Post
I am sitting here researching. Ibeen feeding Nouri every day twice a day andrew feeding frozen food 3x a day. Is there something else i should be feeding the fish to help them fend off ich? My hippo showing spots again today not sure what i can do for him. Seems healthy and happy as can be.
Is he eating? Garlic to the human anatomy is an antioxidant. Is it the same in fish? I don’t know, but garlic does enhance fish appetite. Give me a pork roast with garlic in it any day. IMO, all immune symptom responses by fish are controlled by bacteria. For me, the logical conclusion is to feed live healthy bacteria to fish. To do that, I go to the seafood market. If bivalves are just slightly open, they should be discarded. Trust your nose. It can smell h2s in the parts per billion. Your fish will love you for feeding this. Alas, there is one more benefit. The fluids from dissecting live oysters in tank reminds me of a commercial product for coral and other filter feeders, Oyster Feast.


__________________
Laissez les bons temps rouler,
Patrick Castille

Current Tank Info: 10,000G. Greenhouse Macro Growout
Subsea is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 10:20 AM   #23
kalare
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Posts: 409
If you really want to keep ich out of your new display, which I really really recommend you try doing, I'd get a hospital tank of appropriate size for ALL your fish, and put them in there for no less than 6 weeks with continuous chloroquine phosphate treatment. There are huge threads on this treatment for ich. It's much gentler on fish and much easier to maintain proper levels, unlike copper.

The ich will disappear in several days after treatment, but cysts can remain and the only way to be sure of getting rid of it is to ride out the 6 weeks.


kalare is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 10:50 AM   #24
McPuff
Registered Member
 
McPuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,091
Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
I am a little new to the 'preventative GT' stuff but I am a little confused because can't Ich also arrive on inverts?

Are you expected to do and follow the same ttm with those also?
I think ideally, you would do the same for the inverts though I'm not sure if the trophonts will latch onto the invertebrates or if they choose fish because of the slime coat. I assume they can travel on other creatures though.


McPuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 11:01 AM   #25
Dmorty217
Saltwater Addict
 
Dmorty217's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Vandalia OHIO
Posts: 10,424
To answer the OP question, ich is as big a problem in a 1000g tank as it is in a 55g tank. Probably more so since there are more fish, time and money involved with large systems. Really sucks when you see all your hard work and money get sick, whether thats a 50g tank or one thats several hundred gallons. Inverts won't "host" ich but the free swiming stage can be in the water in the bag they arrive in or snail shells (really any hard surface.)Same with corals, except the cysts are on rock or frag plugs, not the corals themselves.


__________________
Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs

Current Tank Info: 625g, 200g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 2 MP60s, MP40, and a Tunze 6305
Dmorty217 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:01 AM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014