Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > The Reef Chemistry Forum
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 11/06/2017, 07:28 PM   #1
shellsea
Registered Member
 
shellsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Destin, Fl.
Posts: 446
Vinegar “shelf life’

Perhaps a dumb question but I was wondering about all the gallons and gallons of vinegar I throw away after various pump cleanings. Could it be stored and repurposed a couple of times? I realize it is not as expensive as so many other things in our hobby, but every penny adds up. Your thoughts?


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


__________________
Jack "Shellsea" 120 mixed reef, Reef Breeder Photon 48, Archon Controller
shellsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 07:39 PM   #2
SammyL
Reefer
 
SammyL's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Mohnton, PA
Posts: 314
I reuse mine but do a quick filter of it before I place it back in the containers.


__________________
Sammy

Current Tank Info: 180 DT, 705 Hydor Skimmer, 55 gallong sump with fuge, 2 x Lumentek 240 Pro
SammyL is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 08:02 PM   #3
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,735
That's hard to determine. Once the pH rises, bacteria might start growing in what's left. Personally, I'd just pitch it, but I used 10:1 diluted vinegar for cleaning most larger items. Do you have a pH meter that take pH 4 and 7 calibration fluids?


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/06/2017, 08:41 PM   #4
shellsea
Registered Member
 
shellsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Destin, Fl.
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
That's hard to determine. Once the pH rises, bacteria might start growing in what's left. Personally, I'd just pitch it, but I used 10:1 diluted vinegar for cleaning most larger items. Do you have a pH meter that take pH 4 and 7 calibration fluids?


Yes I have 2 ph probes connected to my Archon.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk


__________________
Jack "Shellsea" 120 mixed reef, Reef Breeder Photon 48, Archon Controller
shellsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 10:19 AM   #5
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,619
FYI, the pH of 5% acetic acid vinegar is around 2.4. Most bacteria grow best at pH values in the nuetral range (7.0 give or take) Some can tolerate pH as low as 1.0. I reuse vinegar for cleaning from time to time but not for dosing.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/07/2017, 01:30 PM   #6
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,735
Okay, with the a pH meter, you could try keeping the vinegar if the pH is above 4 or so. I'd be careful about mold growing, though. They can survive a lot. I'd watch the container and discard as needed.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/08/2017, 06:03 PM   #7
blasterman789
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 347
Or just dilute muriatic as needed rather than storing gallons of smelly acetic acid.

You guys also save your shampoo for reuse? lol


blasterman789 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/08/2017, 07:46 PM   #8
bertoni
RC Mod
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Mountain View, CA, USA
Posts: 85,735
I should have said, "as long as the pH is less than 4". More acidic solutions will give a better chance of stopping any growth.


__________________
Jonathan Bertoni
bertoni is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/09/2017, 12:52 AM   #9
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,619
Muriatic acid is much stronger , requires care and ventilation as the fumes are harmful. It is useful for large cleanups like tanks taken outside . For pump cleaning a soak in 50% vinegar and 50% water is strong enough , convenient and affords less risk to the user , the household and the pump seals. Obviously, covering / capping the muriatic acid or vinegar is prudent ; more so for the muriatic acid. Using stronger acid to clean a a pump would be like washing your hair with bleach and or or lye. I usually use a plastic coffee can to soak pump parts .If I'm doing several pumps or othr equipment over the course of a few days reuse works ok.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 08:26 AM   #10
shellsea
Registered Member
 
shellsea's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Destin, Fl.
Posts: 446
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmz View Post
Muriatic acid is much stronger , requires care and ventilation as the fumes are harmful. It is useful for large cleanups like tanks taken outside . For pump cleaning a soak in 50% vinegar and 50% water is strong enough , convenient and affords less risk to the user , the household and the pump seals. Obviously, covering / capping the muriatic acid or vinegar is prudent ; more so for the muriatic acid. Using stronger acid to clean a a pump would be like washing your hair with bleach and or or lye. I usually use a plastic coffee can to soak pump parts .If I'm doing several pumps or othr equipment over the course of a few days reuse works ok.
Thanks Tom. An intelligent answer as always. I appreciate your input.


__________________
Jack "Shellsea" 120 mixed reef, Reef Breeder Photon 48, Archon Controller
shellsea is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 08:36 AM   #11
pinnatus
RIP Ludinano
 
pinnatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 1,512
If you keep the vinegar too long it will turn to wine.


__________________
- Ken

Current Tank Info: 240 gal Fish-Only, 10-gal w/ clowns
pinnatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 10:07 AM   #12
tmz
ReefKeeping Mag staff

 
tmz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: West Seneca NY
Posts: 27,619
I think it's the other way around; ethanol oxidizes to acetic acid.

Shellsea, you are welcome.

One other note: when using acetic acid ( vinegar in this case) to clean it dissolves precipitated calcium carbonate from abiotic precipitation, coraline algae buildups etc.;as it does so the acid is neutralized in adtion to CO2 weakening it.


__________________
Tom

Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.
tmz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/10/2017, 10:11 AM   #13
pinnatus
RIP Ludinano
 
pinnatus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Baton Rouge, LA
Posts: 1,512
Quote:
Originally Posted by pinnatus View Post
If you keep the vinegar too long it will turn to wine.
Quote:
Originally Posted by tmz View Post
I think it's the other way around; ethanol oxidizes to acetic acid.
Bummer. I thought I had a great business idea for a second.

Guess I needed to use the sarcasm font.





__________________
- Ken

Current Tank Info: 240 gal Fish-Only, 10-gal w/ clowns
pinnatus is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/13/2017, 07:24 AM   #14
Ron Reefman
Registered Member
 
Ron Reefman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Cape Coral, FL
Posts: 10,514
I re-use vinegar all the time. I do filter it into a separate bottle to store. At some point it doesn't work as well as it should and I pitch it. But I have also used muriatic acid mixed 1 part acid to 10 parts water and it's just a bit stronger than the straight vinegar. And in it's mixed form it's cheaper than buying a gallon of vinegar. A gallon bottle of muriatic acid costs more than a gallon of vinegar, but it makes 10 gallons when mixed to equal vinegar.


__________________
The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson)
Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017
Ron Reefman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/17/2017, 10:35 AM   #15
netsequent
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 18
I recently dosed .25ml of vinegar 2 days in a new 50G system as an effort to normalize elevated Alk ad Ca in a new tank and see what effect it would have on PO4 at .5 ppm while I waited for my rowaphos, ozoneator, refugium substrate to arrive. Although I found the desired parameter change, I also found a huge cyanobacteria outbreak. I think all these elevated levels came as a result of hyper wet skimming and readjusting salinity with water changes. At this point the rowaphos will be online in a day or so but I'm also looking for a chloride based additive that won't effect Ca, Alk, of Mg.


netsequent is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 11:39 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2017, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2017 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright ©1999-2014