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Old 11/07/2017, 03:01 PM   #1
lingwendil
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The budget big bruiser LED build...

I've been throwing in my opinion and experience in a few threads, and sort of took over one of them for an open brainstorm session based on what I thought would be an economical way to build a pretty powerful array on a reasonable budget. After recommending a fixture based on the following design ideas and part selection, I dug out a spare heatsink, and decided to put my money where my mouth is.

Original discussion-
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2651007


Design philosophy includes the following goals-

Affordable, without resorting to poor quality/efficiency diodes.

Reduced emitter counts, for less wiring and mounting. This is where the COB (chip on board) types of arrays come in very handy. There will be a compromise here for cost, and modular reasons, but not much.

Adjustable colors, each color is on its own channel, this way we can see what percentages work/look good, and reduce/increase them on future iterations as necessary.

Simple as is reasonable, considering the previous goals. No goofy daisy chains to pull off any weird design tricks.




Now all those in mind, I set out to figure out the best way to go. LumiLEDs produced the Luxeon "K" series of LED arrays, in white and royal blue. These use the same emitter die as used in the hugely popular and useful Luxeon M royal blue, and upon seeing the low cost ($5~ each!) of the K16, I couldn't resist ordering a couple to try. Most of these you see for sale were meant for use in remote phosphor applications in products made by Toshiba, and you will see the Toshiba name on the PCB of most available, but rest assured, they are true Luxeons, just surplus. By using the K16, we are able to do the work of 16 (!) individual stars with a single board of slightly larger (30mm vs. 20mm) size.


With my choice of royal blue, I set out to find a suitable base white LED to use with them. Due to recent research on various freshwater aquarium lighting applications, I had recently found some pretty nice COB types of arrays that boast higher CRI than we usually see in smaller 3-5w class emitters. The Bridgelux Vero in particular is a fairly well known one, and the Vero 10 is usually a sub $4 part that is available in a 90CRI 3000K, 4000K, and 5600K version. My preference is for a 4000K white, as if you go higher to a 5600K or cooler white you lose a good bit of the warmer output, and trade it off for more of the 440-460nm blue range that we are already covering with our royal blue emitters. Cooler whites will work, but as many who build a lot of arrays will tell you, the switch to a warmer white will be a night and day difference in color rendition, as well as allowing us to not have to throw any reds in there to cover the area the whites don't. Adding red could be done if you want to, but I don't run them very high on reef setups as they can be hard to blend, and will be largely unnecessary if our white already has enough. Higher CRI emitters also tend to have less of a dip in the 460-500nm range, which can not only aid in photosynthesis, but bring out more color.

After looking at various options out there, I settled on the 97CRI 4000K Citizen CLU028, since it is a very nice emitter, and has pretty nice color distribution on the curve-



That's a pretty nice distribution of color, compared to something like the Cree XM-L-




Proof of concept, running the Citizen, K16, and a lime. These suckers are nice!



Pretty purple looking, but in reality it looks way better... we all know how terrible cameras are at LED color rendition




So, on top of that, I decided to throw a few more emitters in there. Having so much blue and warmer output can push the overall look of the tank a little on the pink side. To counteract this a bit, as well as aid color rendition, photosynthesis, and brightness in the overall look, I decided to add blue (often reffered to as "cool" or "regular" blue) and cyan, as well as lime. While the blue and cyan will be useful in photosynthesis of zooxanthellae, the lime is more for tuning visual brightness, as well as color.

I also decided to throw a couple of violets in there, to cover the bottom edge of the range, as they are very helpful for photosynthesis as well. I may add a couple more later.



So, here's the parts list so far...

Heatsink- RapidLED 20" premium enclosure (https://www.rapidled.com/6-x-20-prem...YaAs4uEALw_wcB)

Two clusters of the following emitters each-

1x Citizen CLU028 4000k, 97 CRI neutral white (https://www.digikey.com/short/qt0pp1)
1x Luxeon K16 royal blue (equivalent to 4x luxeon M, or 16x Luxeon ES!) (find these on fleaBay, and AliExpress, usually run from $4-6 each, common pricing is 5 for $20 shipped)
4x Luxeon Rebel ES true cool blue (470-480nm)
2x Luxeon Rebel ES cyan (one each from rapidLED, one from Steve's, not that it makes much difference)
2x SemiLEDs Hyper violet 3.0 (U70 bin, 415-425nm)
1x Luxeon Rebel lime

Total LED cost is just under $100 or so for both clusters, not factoring in shipping.

The plan so far is to drive most everything at 700mA, and the Citizens at 300mA.

Here's the



Ignoring the drivers, control, fan, etc, the LEDs themselves on both channels will pull-

Royal blue- 61.6w (700mA, 44v, x2 strings)
White- 22.8w (300mA, 38v, x2 strings)
Blue- 18.3w (700mA, 13.08v, x2 strings)
Cyan- 8.1w (700mA, 11.6v)
Violet- 5.2w (700mA, 14.8v)
Lime- 3.78w (700mA, 5.4v)

All combined is 108w total, and 84.4w will be on the white/royal base colors. White/royal will be on a 48V PSU with LDD-H drivers, everything else will be on a 19V PSU and run off of LDD-L drivers. This is of course assuming everything is running full blast, and it's not likely that I would run everything that high other than a few channels for tuning color. Each color is split out into its own channel, for six channels of adjustment. Should be pretty rad!


I'll update this as I go, but it's looking pretty nice so far.


Total LED cost is $77.74, before shipping-

4x Cyan= $10.00
8x Blue= $22.00
2x Lime= $5.50
2x Neutral White= $14.64
2x Royal Blue= $10
4x Violet= $15.60


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Last edited by lingwendil; 11/10/2017 at 03:35 PM.
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Old 11/07/2017, 04:26 PM   #2
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Luxeon K's have been discontinued (I think). Yep, they're cheaper than the legendary 'M', but you can put an optic over an 'M' and match it with a Cree XPH series and tweak your coverage better and keep things more even.
It's the Luxeon 'S' series royals I'm dying to get.


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Old 11/07/2017, 10:50 PM   #3
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Staying along for the updates!


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Old 11/08/2017, 12:19 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blasterman789 View Post
Luxeon K's have been discontinued (I think).
Def. discontinued for Philips..
But they may be around for awhile..
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/pro...636393307.html


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Old 11/08/2017, 03:49 PM   #5
lingwendil
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The datasheet for the Luxeon S states "not recommended for new designs" too, so unsure the status on them.


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Old 11/08/2017, 04:45 PM   #6
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I don't understand why they have discontinued them without giving us something else

I suspect it is simply because us DIY reef keepers are not enough of a market to be worth the investment of producing the product, but that is a depressing suspicion

Tim


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Old 11/08/2017, 07:49 PM   #7
lingwendil
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The industry seems to be going away from remote phosphor type applications (the primary reason for the royal blue emitters) and more toward COB type arrays, and there is just a small niche market for aquaculture and horticultural applications (such as the Luxeon Sunplus series) unfortunately. It's getting harder to find larger royal blues. The Citizen CLU048 is the only other current production blue COB type array available, but it's only available at a couple places for $18 or so each. it's a good choice for a big fixture being a 75 watt array though...


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Old 11/09/2017, 12:37 PM   #8
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The frustrating thing is royal LEDs are cheaper to make than white LEDs because they simply lack the phosphor stage.

Cree could do us a favor and leave the phosphor off some XPH70s, and royal versions of those would make anything else we are using obsolete.

In any respect, I've found mixing different wavelengths of blue provides better aethestics anyways, and those easier done with multi LED boards.


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Old 11/09/2017, 01:51 PM   #9
lingwendil
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Well, I'd even be happy with something as simple as a Vero "blue" since they are such quality and affordable arrays, but it's just dreams right now.

In a perfect world, we could get the bare emitters mounted up like a k16 just with a variety of wavelengths, similar to the "dream chip" but with real, honest, quality emitters. The ones LED group buy sell are nice, but have some limitations, as well as being exorbitantly expensive for what they are.


Back on the current build, however, this is sort of a proof of concept for later builds that will be able to be scaled up for larger tanks, and for use on display as well as propagation type rigs. While doing more reading, I decided I want to eventually try out a couple other whites, and may even experiment with warmer whites, and maybe even supplement of "far red" to play with the Emerson effect. Looking back through my search for good whites I found myself considering the Luxeon "crisp white" arrays. They start around the same price point as the Citizen and Luminus offerings, and have the added feature of having a large amount of violet built in-


https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...416-1939-5-ND/

https://www.digikey.com/product-deta...416-1941-5-ND/

They still have the characteristic trough around 475-480nm, but are a 90CRI typical array, and available in a 3000k only. These would likely be an excellent choice for tanks that are meant to have a more "white" type of color (the "natural look" that shallow water usually has) and would be a nice way to go for an SPS or Clam (or even macroalgae, look at that huge peak at 630nm!) rig, although I think it might take some more cyan and cool blue to keep it from looking too pink or purple.

I just ordered another set of five k16 royal blue to play with a few days ago, and I'm considering grabbing a pair of the "crisp white" to play with too. I'm also looking around for other 3000-4500k whites in the 10-20w range, if anybody has suggestions in a single chip/COB solution.

I've been especially eyeing the Luxeon "freshfocus" series, some interesting arrays there, but mainly for the "fresh fish" as a good base for a freshwater build.




I think that the "fresh fish" and "marbled meat" would be the ultimate pair to run over macroalgae and chaeto reactors, with that huuuuuge peak at 650nm of the "marbled meat" array...


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Last edited by lingwendil; 11/09/2017 at 02:11 PM.
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Old 11/09/2017, 02:13 PM   #10
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You want some real fun..Use Sorra chips after disassembling them from the lamp. Won't sell bare chips unfortunately..
Cost is $2(or greater, need to shop around)/W.. though ..and 5000K has been discontinued so only lower K's available..
They are real easy to disassemble. Bases are really thin pure aluminum so heat transfer is way above most chips I've used so far..
Yuji makes some violet pump chips (lifespan is much shorter than their blue pump emitters and there is a discrepancy as to HOW short from various sources . 1/2 lifespan would seem typical but some say much less) as does Kyocera..

Kyocera is quite receptive to inquiries regarding them..and will help w/ custom boards and loose chips AFAICT (personal correspondence)

Advantage to this is since one uses blue phosphors the range of blue emissions can be spread out..

sadly none of this increase efficiency nor decreases costs...

Soraa uses a different substrate than most LEd's

Just an FYI (and never disassembled these btw)
https://www.lightology.com/index.php...885&cat_id=171
2700K @ 25 or 36 degrees are only $17.. but need to watch shipping costs..
As I said not cheap but a 18.5W 2700K 95CRI violet based chip is enticing



Unfortunately little cyan boost..

In case you are wondering about "white performance" of fresh fish vs Soraa 5000K, Fresh fish is "crisper" probably due to cyan boost and the 6500k ..
Don't have the 5000k Soraa graph handy but since discontinued.. pointless anyways.
Lightology "may" still have some.. Hard to find on their site..They were more per watt than the 2700K I posted..

chips .........everywhere...

FOUND IT and now realize this is ALL old news to you..





Last edited by oreo57; 11/09/2017 at 02:48 PM. Reason: edit
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Old 11/09/2017, 03:53 PM   #11
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Sort of old news, but welcome to be in the discussion, I'll use this thread as a collaboration zone of sorts. It's good to have the info all in one place for the "unenlightened" to see

I want to try some violet based chips, but as you mention, the life expectancy and price has me a little reticent to. I really should grab one of those Sorra lights to dissect...


I truly enjoy your posts btw, always constructive, and always gets me into research


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Old 11/10/2017, 12:56 PM   #12
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Updated original post with LED cost...


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Old 11/11/2017, 12:13 AM   #13
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You thinking anything in terms of potential optics or anything of that nature? Just the splash shield?


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Old 11/11/2017, 08:20 AM   #14
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Splash shield is all, maybe a diffuser sheet (most likely Acrylite Satinice) depending on how it all works. I'm not a huge fan of optics, but I'm considering trying a layout with reflectors next time around.


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Old 11/27/2017, 01:51 AM   #15
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kinda funny how the led nerds from plantedtank.net end up hear as well. just found this thread and a few other simlar ones here in my research for my reef side of my "dueling" cubes project of 2 20inch cubes. I really like the idea lingwendil i don't know near enough about reef tanks yet to off anything. my plan is to get a coupld 6in slim makers led housings and build a couple simlar but spectrally different lights. one planted one reef. i'm leaning toards the fresh fish for the planted side of things with some deep red and possibly a couple color temp adjustment channels to let me have some sunrise effects.

the reef side i'm clueless on spectrum, but the freshfish cob seems to be a perfect base white for reef too? no realy dip in the cyan area nice blue peak and decent reds? but i'm prolly missing something. but jeff..err I mean oreo lol is thinking simlar to me I think from some posts i've seen


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Old 11/29/2017, 01:23 PM   #16
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Oreo/Jeff is a wonderful guy to get sucked into brainstorming sessions with. I too find it funny how the planted tank guys are mixed up in these threads too. The different perspectives are a great source of ideas.

I do like the fresh fish chip, and recently found out that they are very similar to the Luxeon SunPlus cool white, and will actually grab a few to play with on my freshwater nano and replace the Vero 5600k I'm currently running as my base white. I'm almost thinking that the fresh fish or SunPlus would be a great rig mixed with either a warm white or a deep red/far red for some of that Emerson effect boost, but that's another show

Luxeon SunPlus cool white-

http://www.stevesleds.com/Luxeon-Sun...ite_p_355.html

And some discussion, freshwater but still useful on spectrum comparison-

http://www.plantedtank.net/forums/10...25-gallon.html


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Old 11/29/2017, 11:29 PM   #17
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wow that crisp white is pretty nice now that i'm looking at it. the violet element enough to save using a separate violet diode? maybe a real simple array something like K16 + the Crisp white, and maybe something as simple as one more 3up star chip with 2x485nm and a 500nm?


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Old 11/29/2017, 11:31 PM   #18
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really like those sunplus diodes, I really wish steve could use them on his 14up or 3up setups but asked and no go.


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Old 11/30/2017, 11:29 AM   #19
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Quote:
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wow that crisp white is pretty nice now that i'm looking at it. the violet element enough to save using a separate violet diode? maybe a real simple array something like K16 + the Crisp white, and maybe something as simple as one more 3up star chip with 2x485nm and a 500nm?
I'm not so sure it would be a substitute for individual violets altogether, but it could be very useful for building simple rigs where you are limited on space or control, or as a supplement on a big fixture. It's a pretty warm kelvin COB too, so no idea how it will blend. I've got a spare K16 that I would love to pair with one and see how it goes. Would need another 3000k COB of similar output to compare it to for PAR and see how much of a difference it makes. Another I would love to try for sure though. Little too expensive to just grab for giggles at this time though, I've got too many irons in the fire currently. If anybody wants to offer one up to science I would be glad to fool around with one though...

I think a good starting point with it would likely be a K16, Crispwhite, a 3-up of 2x blue/1x cyan, and a lime or two. Would probably be a good start for a lower K look on an SPS tank for sure.


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Old 12/01/2017, 10:52 PM   #20
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i'll need to really figure out what i'm looking at as far as salt spectrum now that we figured out how to add COBs to spectra. this is what I kinda have in mind for a setup for my 20cube, but i'm not sure what i'm really looking at but I guess its somewhat cheap to tweak down the road.

Crisp White- Star (Cool Blue Cyan Lime) - K16 - Star (cool Blue Cyan Lime) - Crisp White. maybe add a couple violets in as well?

this will be mounted in a line like that tight together heavy whle I want the 2 crisp whites even if I run them dimmer just so its an even spread for the most part. or maybe run 2 k16s on the outside and run them dim since there cheap anyway and the white in the middle.

planning on using 1ft steve's HD heatsink since it can be run more or less passive from what i read at 1 ft for 50-60 watts of power which I doubt i would go over when over a 35 gallon cube.


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Old 12/02/2017, 12:59 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kampo View Post
i'll need to really figure out what i'm looking at as far as salt spectrum now that we figured out how to add COBs to spectra. this is what I kinda have in mind for a setup for my 20cube, but i'm not sure what i'm really looking at but I guess its somewhat cheap to tweak down the road.

Crisp White- Star (Cool Blue Cyan Lime) - K16 - Star (cool Blue Cyan Lime) - Crisp White. maybe add a couple violets in as well?

this will be mounted in a line like that tight together heavy whle I want the 2 crisp whites even if I run them dimmer just so its an even spread for the most part. or maybe run 2 k16s on the outside and run them dim since there cheap anyway and the white in the middle.

planning on using 1ft steve's HD heatsink since it can be run more or less passive from what i read at 1 ft for 50-60 watts of power which I doubt i would go over when over a 35 gallon cube.
I think that layout with an added pair of U60 or U50 Violet (or one of each, one on either end) from RapidLED would be a killer setup that covers a good range of spectrum pretty well. If you punch everything into Spectra and look at the advisor it gives a "100" rating from everything before you even add the royal blue at all once you add one each of the U50 and U60 violets in there. You get a nice heavy violet peak, followed by a heavy broad-range blue, and then a good flat line out into the red region. I would think it would be a pretty good setup for sure.

Just for spread and color mix it wouldn't hurt to add another K16, and have one on either side of the strip, flanked by a white and the lime/cyan/blue 3-ups, with an additional violet added too, just means another driver, which if using LDD-H series, is no big deal. Gives you the opportunity to run them at a lower duty cycle and get a nice long life out of them too.


What controller do you plan on using? That can make a difference too. It would be a shame to not break out each color onto its own channel for such a rig. I have one of these running my 20 long, and it can handle up to sixteen (!) channels, and I currently run six time slots if I'm not mistaken-

http://www.ultimatereef.net/threads/...roller.784531/

Best of all its CHEAP! Same cost as building a Typhon clone really, and very versatile, perfect for a power user that doesn't need a ton of knobs and doohickeys all over.


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Old 12/02/2017, 05:57 PM   #22
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Leaning toward using my sslac16 controller o2 made up for me. Wish I had him do more up for me. For what I paid it can't be beat.

I like the idea of what your saying. And honestly all the colors are there and way brighter than I need so if the rationis off I have headroom to adjust it in software.


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Old 12/08/2017, 09:15 PM   #23
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eBay had a 15 off 75 coupon tonight so snagged 2 makers 12in slim heatsinks, k16 chip and a tc420.

So going to use the tc420 controller. Not ideal, but it should work fine. So I need to turn this 6 channel array into 5

Currently plan was
Ch1 k16
Ch2 2x 1202 crispwhites
Ch3 2x cool blue
Ch4 2x cyan
Ch5 2x lime
Ch6 2x hypervilolet

Thinking just combine 6 and 1?

Also 12in makers heatsink. You guys think I'll need a fan on it? Saw another person use a pci cooling fan inside the heatsink which was pretty slick.


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Old 12/08/2017, 09:29 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by kampo View Post
eBay had a 15 off 75 coupon tonight so snagged 2 makers 12in slim heatsinks, k16 chip and a tc420.

So going to use the tc420 controller. Not ideal, but it should work fine. So I need to turn this 6 channel array into 5

Currently plan was
Ch1 k16
Ch2 2x 1202 crispwhites
Ch3 2x cool blue
Ch4 2x cyan
Ch5 2x lime
Ch6 2x hypervilolet

Thinking just combine 6 and 1?

Also 12in makers heatsink. You guys think I'll need a fan on it? Saw another person use a pci cooling fan inside the heatsink which was pretty slick.
how about 4 and 5?
Quote:
Oh, and here is lime with a little cyan mixed in.




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Old 12/08/2017, 09:38 PM   #25
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that was my second choice, actually considered just dropping the channels to 4 to save a bit on drivers, leaning toward using 2x Blue Acro drivers, didn't really want to buy 3 of them and waste a channel. that said I could buy 3 and just combine the control on 2 channels but still have control over all 6 because his drivers are adjustable...hmmm

also why is there no edit option for threads for me I see you have that option?


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