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Old 01/02/2018, 01:47 PM   #1
reefmutts
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2 Dwarf Flame Angle or 2 Firefish (What to choose)

I have a full reef, mostly softies, but some sps.
I had a Flame years ago that was a model fish, never picked on anything.

Looking at adding 2 new fish to the tank, so im looking at 2-Flame or 2-firefish, what to choose.

Tank is 75 gal
1-yellow tang
2- yellowtail damsels
3- royal grammas
1 Clown, percula
2- mated coral banded shrimp
1- Mandarin
2- Flame ????
2- Firefish???

Thanks


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Old 01/02/2018, 01:53 PM   #2
zooman72
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I would personally go with a pair of flame angels, but remember, if you do, make sure both are small (i.e. females) or a confirmed pair (Diver's Den?), or it may not go well.


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Old 01/02/2018, 01:59 PM   #3
raphmac
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I donít think you can keep more than one dwarf angel in one tank(75g), especially if they are from the same species...
But a flame would be better than a pair of firefish because you have grammas in your tank that would probably harass the firefish to death because of how territorial royal grammas tend to be especially considering the fact that firefish and grammas are both mostly rock-dwellers.
Anyway, whatever fish you choose, good luck...


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Old 01/02/2018, 02:35 PM   #4
reefmutts
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Or 1 Flame and 1 Coral Beauty


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Old 01/02/2018, 03:29 PM   #5
alton
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Pairing Flames is not that difficult. Males have pointier fins and females have more rounder. Look at post by Orion N - Minh he is the expert at creating pairs. Like Zooman2 stated if you can buy a pair go for it


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Old 01/02/2018, 03:39 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphmac View Post
I donít think you can keep more than one dwarf angel in one tank(75g), especially if they are from the same species...
But a flame would be better than a pair of firefish because you have grammas in your tank that would probably harass the firefish to death because of how territorial royal grammas tend to be especially considering the fact that firefish and grammas are both mostly rock-dwellers.
Anyway, whatever fish you choose, good luck...


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Not so sure about firefish being rock dwellers. My experience is they like to chill in the open water column. I agree that the grammas might harass them....but there's a possiblity it could work. Like anything...it's hit or miss with each fish.


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Old 01/02/2018, 03:58 PM   #7
reefmutts
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I think im more worried about the yellowtail damsels harassing the firefish...but they seem pretty mellow.


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Old 01/02/2018, 05:20 PM   #8
swiftvision
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You can only have one Firefish per tank.


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Old 01/02/2018, 07:47 PM   #9
zooman72
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Quote:
Originally Posted by raphmac View Post
I donít think you can keep more than one dwarf angel in one tank(75g), especially if they are from the same species...
But a flame would be better than a pair of firefish because you have grammas in your tank that would probably harass the firefish to death because of how territorial royal grammas tend to be especially considering the fact that firefish and grammas are both mostly rock-dwellers.
Anyway, whatever fish you choose, good luck...Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
I actually have paired dwarf angels (flames, cherubs, coral beauties, Eibl's, and Potter's) several times over the years without issue - one either has to start with 2 smaller females, or one large male and a smaller female (or grab two that have already paired).

Also, firefish use "bolt holes" in the rockwork to escape threats, but they typically inhabit the water column during the day, retreating to the rocks at night. In a 75 gallon aquarium, I doubt royal grammas would pose much of a threat to firefish.

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Pairing Flames is not that difficult. Males have pointier fins and females have more rounder. Look at post by Orion N - Minh he is the expert at creating pairs. Like Zooman72 stated if you can buy a pair go for it
Yep, the problems arise when some try to introduce adult males at the same time or sequentially, and larger dwarf angels are typically males - all dwarf angles are sequential protogynous hermaphrodites, starting out female and transitioning to males with time, growth, and absence of competing males (opposite of clownfish for example, which are sequential protandrous hermaphrodites, all starting out males).


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Old 01/02/2018, 07:50 PM   #10
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You can only have one Firefish per tank.
No, that is an oversimplification, as aquarium size and sex of the fish matters quite a bit. I have had paired firefish more than once, and in larger aquariums (125+ gallons) I have observed trios and more.


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Old 01/02/2018, 08:35 PM   #11
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No, that is an oversimplification, as aquarium size and sex of the fish matters quite a bit. I have had paired firefish more than once, and in larger aquariums (125+ gallons) I have observed trios and more.
Maybe we're talking about 2 different kinds of fish here but as zooman72 stated, I've seen and also currently have multiple firefish in a 112 gallon tank. We have a dominant size fire fish, don't recall if it's male or female. Originally had 7. Our LFS, who may/may not know what they are doing, recommended certain #'s that 'go together' and that despite the # we put in, we'd find that they dwindle fairly quickly (has anyone else been told that?)

The firefish are cute and nicely colored fish but in my experience, they are not the smartest ones in the tank. We lost 3 in the first few days after introduction to the tank - 1 due to being a jumper before we had a screen on and the other due to mishandling of a rock we didn't realize they were hiding in & 1 who went into complete panic, jumped, swam into my elegance coral, & then floated like prey right by a red shrimp who thought he looked good.

We had 4 happily together for many months but sadly lost fire fish #4 recently after introducing our 2 largest fish to date into the tank. #4 got befuddled & instead of retreating to the rocks they hide & sleep in, it decided to dive into burrow belonging to our Randall's Goby & his pistol shrimp. We never saw him again after that.

So we still have 3 and I wish we had more but after all this time of THESE fire fish being together, I don't feel they welcome any new members to their tribe so we'll enjoy these while we can.


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Old 01/02/2018, 08:38 PM   #12
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reefmutts,

How do your royal grammas get along? I've been told I can have more than 1 and then I've been told I can ONLY have one...much like maybe what you were told on fire fish?

I was warned that if I got royal grammas they might fight with my fire fish so I've been torn on this. Even though my tank is only 112 gallons, it is 6 ft long but I'm never sure if this is ever a game-changer in situations like this.


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Old 01/03/2018, 12:36 AM   #13
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reefmutts,

How do your royal grammas get along? I've been told I can have more than 1 and then I've been told I can ONLY have one...much like maybe what you were told on fire fish?

I was warned that if I got royal grammas they might fight with my fire fish so I've been torn on this. Even though my tank is only 112 gallons, it is 6 ft long but I'm never sure if this is ever a game-changer in situations like this.
Royal grammas can certainly be kept in groups - I have a group of 5 right now in my 50g "cube", and have had as many as 7 in a 40B. The 5 in my 50g have been together for at least 3 years, and the larger group in my 40B were together for longer than that (4+ years). If you do a search, I had multiple responses to multiple threads, although with PhotoBucket no longer available, I am sure the photos are gone. However, if you do a Google image search of "royal grammas harem", the very first photo that comes up is mine from one of the RC threads (gorgonian biotope tank).

Again, the "secret" in keeping them is to select smaller fish and introduce together, with plenty of rockwork for territories. Add a larger male to an aquarium with a dominant resident male and they will immediately fight. I have added new members to an existing "harem", with smaller ones residing for a few days in an acclimation box, but it has not always gone smoothly - better to introduce a small group of juveniles together.


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