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Old 01/07/2018, 07:34 PM   #1
tom g
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high alk.... 15 dkh ..how to lower

hey there , I'm struggling with my wifes office tank , I had some issues with her work and the tank suffered a few fish losses corals not growing much also I have three anenomes in there that havea bleached and right now look opaque with pink tips , they were rose bubble tips , and a flame anemone .I started with a water change and have done a second larger one , but for some reason I chkd the readings with a salifert kit ...before and after ...

before water change ... alk....15.7.....cal....430.......mag....1300
ph...8.3 salinity was 1.019

after water change ...
alk ... 15.7........cal ....460.....mag ....1300....ph.......8.1......salinity .1.023

new water was tested at ...alk 15.......cal ...440.....mag ....1170...salinity was at 1.025

what I don't understand is why is my alk from my mix 15 ....it is instant ocean I have had it for a year and it was a brand new bag not opened ,opened two weeks ago , the bag was not hard or dried up poured it into a bucket like I always do..

what have I done wrong , how can I lower it .. I know that if I raise calcium it should drop it down , but will it drop it down enough ,I'm already close to the threshold of calcium how much can I go up ... should I just let it run its course , is this the reason my nems have bleached ....
confused ....


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Old 01/07/2018, 08:14 PM   #2
bertoni
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I doubt that the anemones are having problems with the alkalinity. Stony corals might be more of an issue. I'd be worried about the salinity, and the changes in it. I would move the salinity up to 1.026, the canonical ocean average, over a period of a few days or so, by topping off with saltwater or part saltwater. A sudden change from 1.019 to 1.023 might cause some reaction. Did the anemones bleach when the water was changed, or did that start earlier?

You might have gotten a bad batch of salt, or it might have settled badly during shipment. I might try mixing the dry salt up and measuring a fresh batch for alkalinity. If it's that high again, I'd try to get my money back on that bag of salt. Lowering the alkalinity can be done safely by water changes with a lower-alkalinity water source.

You can use muriatic acid to drop the alkalinity of some water for changes. Just aerate well before doing the change so that the pH can recover. The basic dosing rule:

Quote:
Adding 1/11,000 of the water volume as muriatic acid will drop alkalinity by 1 meq/l (2.8 dKH).



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Old 01/07/2018, 08:38 PM   #3
tom g
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alkalinity

I only have soft corals in this tank ... the nems bleached months ago ... and have not come back at all ... opaque with tips pinkish....


iwas thinking that with the salt I will try in am to mix some more up and mix up the dry mixture .. the salt is about a year old ,instant ocean in the box with separate bags ....I usually open and drop into a bucket .
I didn't mix up the dry salt at all that I remember , but its something that I have never done or had this issue .

mixing the muratic acid . do u do that in the tank with fish and corals .
I don't understand your 1/11000 water volume measurement ..

thanks for the reply
tom


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Old 01/08/2018, 12:19 AM   #4
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I would avoid dosing muriatic acid into a tank with animals. I was trying to suggest dosing muriatic acid into water for changes, if you want to speed the drop of the alkalinity level.

About 3 ml of muriatic acid will drop the alkalinity of 10 gallons of freshly-mixed saltwater about 2.8 dKH. The pH will drop quite a bit, but will rise back up with some aeration. I'd be very cautious handling muriatic acid, if you choose to try this approach. The fumes are toxic, and I'd wear chemically-resistant gloves and goggles.


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Old 01/08/2018, 06:45 AM   #5
tom g
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muratic acid

ok I was unclear

I understand just in the made salt water ...

I will continue to monitor I am uncomfortable with adding muratic acid

thanks for the clarifications


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Old 01/08/2018, 05:27 PM   #6
bertoni
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That sounds like a fine plan to me. I stay away from muriatic acid myself.


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Old 01/08/2018, 07:08 PM   #7
tom g
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vinegar dosing

do u think dosing vineager will help to lower it , or would it take a hole lot of vin
to drop down the alk ...I don't think 50 ml of vinn will drop it enough ...


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Old 01/08/2018, 07:28 PM   #8
bertoni
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Vinegar binds alkalinity very temporarily. Once bacteria consume the organic acid, the alkalinity is released. There's no way to drop alkalinity permanently other than using a mineral acid. I don't know of any off-hand that are inexpensive, easily available, and safer than muriatic acid.


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Old 01/08/2018, 08:45 PM   #9
tom g
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alkalinity

ok , ill just ride it out ...I am looking to get rid of instant ocean and try something different .


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Old 01/08/2018, 09:18 PM   #10
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I think some aggressive waiting will be fine.

Instant Ocean usually is fine, but all the brands of salt mixes seem to go through bad batches. Sigh!


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Old 01/09/2018, 12:38 AM   #11
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Wait. When mg drops below 1200 alk will sink fast.


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Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low.

Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge lps reef: 3 firefish, yellowhead jawfish, yellow watchman, 3 chromis, tailspot/starry blennies, pink margin fairy wrasse, mandarin, kalk, radion pro, gyre, Eshopps s-200 skimmer, basement sump.
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Old 01/09/2018, 06:35 PM   #12
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15 is awfully high for I.O. ......are you confident that your salifert kit is accurate ???

I use I.O.R.C...and it always mixes up in the 11-12 area (when I check). If it mixed up to 15, first thing I would question is the alkalinity kit (hanna) even though the hanna has never given me a bad reading i'd still question it's accuracy.....When I validated the reading next step is to call spectrum brands and give them hell .....


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Old 01/10/2018, 09:21 AM   #13
tom g
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alkalinity

I used a salifert kit and when I was reading high , I had another set which I used and same results , my first instinct was ,was it a bad kit ..


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Old 01/10/2018, 04:25 PM   #14
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Grab a redsea test kit before taking extreme measures.


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Current Tank Info: 90g mixed reef w/ 55g sump/fuge. Bangaii Cardinal, Royal Grama, Clownfish (Snowflake & BlackIce), Flame Angel, Melanurus Wrasse.
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Old 01/10/2018, 05:04 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bertoni View Post
I think some aggressive waiting will be fine.

Instant Ocean usually is fine, but all the brands of salt mixes seem to go through bad batches. Sigh!
LOL thats what I would do also.


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Old 01/29/2018, 08:05 AM   #16
tom g
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Alkalinity

Well after 3 weeks and 3 15 gallon water changes
My alk is at 7.7dkh
Now to keep it there ...
Thanks for the help guys


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Old 01/29/2018, 02:01 PM   #17
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You're welcome. I'm glad to hear that the problem is under control.


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Old 01/29/2018, 02:15 PM   #18
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Aggressive waiting...

I like that! Universally good advice in the hobby!


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80g Aiptasia dominated reef tank.. with fish and now a bunch of berghia!

Current Tank Info: 80g tank, re-starting a reef after a zoanthid nudibranch plauge, followed by months of steady and unstoppable STN/RTN, crashed; stayed FOWLR for a couple years, currently an aiptasia dominated reef tank with fishies and BERGHIA
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Old 02/03/2018, 03:15 PM   #19
tom g
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Now I am stumped

Ok I thought I had this beat .... last week did 15 gal water change ... checked alk immediately after and results were 8.0 dkh realizing that could be a little premature for a chk .. but I was curious..
Just dud a parameter chk

1.023
Alk...14.7
Cal....460

What am I doing wrong does this make scense


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Old 02/03/2018, 03:43 PM   #20
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Are you using RODI water or Tap/prime?


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Old 02/03/2018, 03:54 PM   #21
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I had the same problem with alk at 15. Iíve noticed there have been other threads with the sand issue. Are you using instant ocean? I think there may have been a bad batch released.

I bought new salt and after 15g water changes for the past few weeks mine in down to 11


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Old 02/03/2018, 04:26 PM   #22
tom g
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alkalinity

this tank was topped off with tap water last three water changes and saltwater had been ro water .. is it possibility that the tap water has created this high alk in the system ...


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Old 02/03/2018, 04:39 PM   #23
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Quote:
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this tank was topped off with tap water last three water changes and saltwater had been ro water .. is it possibility that the tap water has created this high alk in the system ...
Ro or RODI? Whichever it is check your alk in the water you use to mix your saltwater. Whatever Alk it is at will add to the saltmix alk, so 7 DKH water and 8 DKH saltmix will mix up to 15 DKH.


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Old 02/03/2018, 04:48 PM   #24
tom g
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alkalinity

I chked the salt water I mixed up prior to taking it to the office it was 8.0 dkh....I use ro/di at home ....
how long does it take alk to deplete .. is there a way to speed it up or should I just let it come down on its own .
only corals in tank are leathers and a few bubbletips and some zoas ...


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Old 02/03/2018, 10:42 PM   #25
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Tap water can be quite high in dKH. Your alkalinity kit can give you some idea of the hardness, although a saltwater kit won't read all that well in fresh water. The endpoint of the pH titration is different, so the saltwater kit will read a bit high, as I recall.

If all the animals are doing well enough, I'd let the alkalinity drop over time. I'm not sure that I trust the readings yet, so I'd get second opinions on the SG, calcium, and alkalinity levels. I'd raise the SG slowly if it's actually that low.


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