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Old 01/13/2018, 06:05 PM   #1
kizanne
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Amphipods

So if you had a full grown erectus, how many adult amphipods a day do you think they would eat? Say 3/8" to 5/8" amphipods.

From what I've read they eat 5 to 14 mysid a day the amphipods are about the same size as the hakari mysid but smaller than the PE mysid.

Also on one thread someone said their horses were eating ghost shrimp They must mean mysid right cause grass shrimp are too big right? no way they can do grass shrimp (though any baby grass shrimp)....

Mine are trained onto frozen mysid but I like to offer live foods to keep them happy and naturally entertained. Also that way if I go out of town I trust live foods way more than untrained people feeding my tanks.

I'm currently culturing amphipods just wondering what those of you with erectus and experience think the daily consumption would be (assuming no frozen food like on vacation).


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/14/2018, 08:34 AM   #2
rayjay
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I have no way to know just how many mysis my erectus would eat each day, as I broadcast feed by portion not numbers, but keep in mind though that it's not just the numbers of amphipods available to them each day, it's how many they are able to catch as the amphipods aren't just available like frozen mysis, they tend to hide most of the time lights are on. The amphipods will still get caught but without an extreme population of amphipods, it's doubtful you could sustain them for long, especially if the absences become frequent.
Definitely are great as ancillary nutrition though.


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Old 01/14/2018, 08:41 AM   #3
kizanne
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My male erectus seems to be pretty good at hunting them. He stays convex sometimes without eating mysid for a day or two. My girl moves too much. Vacations don't come too frequently but I can add them by the thousand when needed. I'm currently breeding the amphipods in a ten gallon but can order if needed. Just trying to calculate what kind of breeding population I'd need. They take up to 6 months to be sexually mature but then pop out babies every 18 days or so depending on conditions.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/14/2018, 08:42 AM   #4
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My horses don't seem to be as interested in the Copepods. Too small I guess when they can find amphipods.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/14/2018, 02:30 PM   #5
vlangel
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I culture amphipods in my fuge. That way if I have a pony not eating for any reason I can tempt them with pods. I can shake out 20 or so easily at any time. I had tried an amphipod culture in a separate tank but I could not get large enough densities to even feed my 3 erectus for a week. They just eat way too many.

I feed ghost shrimp when I go on vacation. I have a guy who sends young ones and my ponies have no trouble eating them at all. Like you I feel safer feeding live shrimp when someone inexperienced is feeding my seahorses.


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Old 01/14/2018, 04:30 PM   #6
kizanne
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Thanks. Two questions.

Can you estimate how many a day you think they would eat? I can always order some extra if needed.

Second, are you calling mysid ghost shrimp or grass shrimp ? Mysid are like 1/2 inch where as grass shrimp are 1-2" long.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/15/2018, 08:03 AM   #7
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Still can't help with quantity of live food other than enriched full sized artemia where I feed about a half tablespoon of them to five abdominalis and the same amount to 8 barbouri. (per feeding)
For me, mysids terminology I use for the saltwater shrimp that are normally found in reef tanks, and mysis I use for freshwater shrimp like the frozen Hikari and PE we use for general feeding.
Ghost shrimp (glass shrimp, grass shrimp) are freshwater shrimp that many hobbyists use for feeding seahorses but have to be added at feeding times because their lifespan once introduced to the salt water isn't all that long.
I haven't used ghost shrimp in over a decade now, back when I had reidi and they used to tear apart the shrimp and eat the pieces if the shrimp were too large for a quick snick.
I had tried them with angustus and barbs also but they only ate the smaller ghost shrimp and were not interested in the larger ones for the most part.
For a few years I cultured salt water mysid shrimp and it was very labour intensive because of the high cannibalism rate, requiring separate tanks for the nauplii each week as any larger ones ate the smaller ones big time.
Whichever live food you choose to use is made much better by enrichment just prior to using as food.
You can get both artemia and ghost shrimp from https://www.livebrineshrimp.com/


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Old 01/15/2018, 09:11 AM   #8
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Thanks I order from that place occasionally. The grass shrimp I have tolerate full salt just fine. The eat detris but also love baby bribe rotifers and Copepods. I guess I'll keep them for now see if I can get babies of a better size. I threw a few in the tank. They love going over the over flow. I can find 1 that I put in there but not the other four. But the tank has lots of hiding places so.... Of course maybe the horses have been eating them. I kept out many of the others since the also eat Copepods. Not sure who would win the war amphipods or grass shrimp.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/15/2018, 09:30 AM   #9
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Appreciate your insight. Also though the grass shrimp and amphipods serve double duty as they aren't just food they are part of my tank maintainence crew. I try really hard to get a whole system going from a healthy sand bed to Copepods to amiphipods macro algae and such. So the grass shrimp are just in the tank. Even if the horses don't eat them they eat detris. I just prefer to have clean up crew that can also serve as food.

I love your shrimp feeder but too lazy to hook that up everyday. So I feed frozen but try to provide grazing for variety and entertainment. Vacation is the only time I try mostly live food. I also order from aquarium depot so if needed I can do a couple thousand amphipods prior to vacation. I prefer to culture to cut down on contaminants. I can also trade amphipods in at the local fish store for other things ��


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/15/2018, 07:32 PM   #10
nutbar29
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In December I went on a small 3 day vacation and I ordered 1000 Mysis shrimp for my 12 seahorses. I also have a lot of amiphipods in my tank and that was just enough for them. Maybe this year I might order 1500 or 2000.


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Old 01/16/2018, 10:05 AM   #11
kizanne
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Well that is roughly 28 a day per seahorse. Thanks!


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/19/2018, 07:04 PM   #12
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Well as an extension of this thread. I released the first set of 100 or so baby amphipods into my seahorse tank today. I had already seeded the tank with lots of adults but it felt good to have aquacultured babies to throw in.

Now I just need more chaeto.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/20/2018, 07:25 AM   #13
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One thing I wonder is how do you keep up a large population of amphipods in the display tank with the seahorses? I would be afraid to have too much cover (as in macro algae, and rock) that could trap detritus or leftover frozen mysis and thus fuel pathogenic bacteria. I have a very good population of amphipods in my sump but unless I shake them out of the macro algae and then release them in the DT, I never see amphipods in the DT. I am sure a few do make it to the display but are probably snicked up pretty quick.


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Old 01/20/2018, 08:35 AM   #14
kizanne
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Well I may have bacteria problems yet. I am keeping the temp down. I have a full biotope going. I had this tank cycle over 2 years with copepods, amphipods, macroalgae, bristle worms, even some hair algae, I'm hoping that just like anything else given good conditions I have things that consume bacteria and that good bacteria outcompetes the bad bacteria. I try to only feed what they'll eat and I clean up after.

My display has lots of prolifera, small rock piles, chaeto so hiding places. However my male seahorse doesn't eat near as much mysid as my girl does and he is fatter than her. He is a good hunter and stays still.

I have a chiller for the summer. I do realize that I may regret it all later but I always design for more natural fish keeping and have had good luck. I have an aggressive skimmer also and do water changes.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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Old 01/20/2018, 09:28 AM   #15
rayjay
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I never could keep the population of pods up in any of my seahorse tanks because the seahorses decimate the population so quickly. Rubble piles kept the numbers up more than anything else for me, but, I ended up with too many problems with trapped detritus so I scrapped that idea.
I don't even worry about the pods although I suspect some make it through the return from sump to tank, but rather I feed enriched adult brine shrimp usually once a week but sometimes more often, especially if I'm waiting for a shipment of frozen mysis to come in.
I too have found males generally appearing not to eat as much as females but with exceptions. I don't find my males or females to be fatter than the others.


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Old 01/20/2018, 12:48 PM   #16
kizanne
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Well mine a new horse and she came a little lithe. She isn't concave but she doesn't pudge out either.

I'm not really trying to produce the pods in tank.

I have a separate 10 gallon amphipods tank. I am planning to mostly remove the juvenile amphipods from the breeder and put those in the tank to be eaten or grow larger. I covered pvc tubing with crushed coral to create lots of surface area for pods that is still open. I do have some chaeto in the seahorse tank.

It isn't their main food source it's for fun for them and added nutrition as well as tank clean up. I also have tons of tisbe pods in the amphipods culture tank. And a separate 10 gallon tisbe tank attached to a ten gallon mysid tank. Everything is breeding right now except the mysid. I'm dumping hundreds of tisbes a day into the display tank.


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Sterile is not better. Successfully bred: Banggai, Lined Seahorse. Restarting work on Ruby Red dragonets, Blue Mandarins, Davinci Clowns, Pink Skunk Clowns (not mature yet) dragonface pipefish.

Current Tank Info: 125 gal tank, 40 gal refugium - 30 gal Ruby Red tank - 70 gallon erectus / mandarin tank
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