Reef Central Online Community

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > Marine Fish Forums > Reef Fishes
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 03/21/2010, 07:08 PM   #1
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Did my foxface kill my tang??

long story short i bought a small foxface yesterday. the foxface and 2 tangs have been swimming around with each other non stop since i put him in the tank. the tang had been doing great all day and even ate earlier. no signs of stress at all. about an hour ago i saw all 3 fish swimming around together all seemed in good health. about 20min ago i noticed the tang stuck to a power head wich is not a strong power head and the tangs always swim around it picking for algea and such.

is it possible the new foxface stung my tang? possibly killing him or hurting the tang enough to were the power head finished the job? i have never heard of anything like this happening with a foxface before so i needed to ask so i can either take him out or scratch it up as a loss for reasons out of my control.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2010, 07:11 PM   #2
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,474
What tangs and what size tank? What kind of power head? Sizes of fishes involved?


TampaReefer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/21/2010, 09:34 PM   #3
Recty
Registered Member
 
Recty's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Alaska
Posts: 6,593
Examine the tangs body, he will have marks if he was stabbed on the foxface's spines.

I'd say it's pretty doubtful that is what killed it. Is the tang pretty new to your tank?


Recty is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 06:51 AM   #4
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by Recty View Post
Examine the tangs body, he will have marks if he was stabbed on the foxface's spines.

I'd say it's pretty doubtful that is what killed it. Is the tang pretty new to your tank?
i looked over the body and did not see any marks. the tang was atleast in my tank for a year now. it was a sailfin tang and at least twice the size of the foxface.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 06:57 AM   #5
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
anyhow i guess i shoulda asked if the foxface could kill another fish with its spines? will the venom kill a tang if stung?

i seriously doubt a maxijet 1200 coulda caught a 3in tang and held him there to die unless he was already on his way out or hurt.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 09:36 AM   #6
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,474
How big is the tank?


TampaReefer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 11:40 AM   #7
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaReefer79 View Post
How big is the tank?
60g and all the fish were perfectly happy. they are awaiting there new home right now, or they were awaiting there new home until now. the foxface is like maybe 1 1/2in and the 2 tangs were a yellow and sailfin both wich were about the same size. maybe 2 1/2 to 3in in size. but big enough that i seriously doubt it woulda got stuck in the powerhead that it would graze around for the past year.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 12:45 PM   #8
MatthewLaw
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: East Coast US
Posts: 1,564
I dont believe a Foxface uses its venomous spines to catch food. I believe it only uses the spines as a defensive tactic. So in effect, the "other" fish is stinging itself with the foxface's spines, the foxface isn't acively chasing a fish and then stinging.


MatthewLaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 01:46 PM   #9
jubjub
Registered Member
 
jubjub's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: vacaville, cali
Posts: 2,706
^^ +1 foxface spines are mearly for defense. both tangs were eating and everything the day before?

side note when i got my foxface i noticed my purple bullying him, then i noticed some bruising/white spots all in a strait line on one side of the purple...purple never bothered the foxface after that day


__________________
"The world holds two classes of men - intelligent men without religion, and religious men without intelligence." - Abu Ala Al-Maari
jubjub is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 04:40 PM   #10
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
the fish were all doing great and hour before i notice the sailfin tang dead. wich is why it is puzzling me. i kinda figured from all the reading i have been doing that the foxface would not have attacked the tang. i figured that maybe something spooked the tang and foxface then some how the tang possibly impaled itself on the foxface spines. but i also did not see any marks on the tang either. so maybe it was something else entirely then.

thanks for the replys on the subject. this is the first foxface i have attempted to keep and was still alittle weary on keeping him.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 04:43 PM   #11
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by jubjub View Post
^^ +1 foxface spines are mearly for defense. both tangs were eating and everything the day before?

side note when i got my foxface i noticed my purple bullying him, then i noticed some bruising/white spots all in a strait line on one side of the purple...purple never bothered the foxface after that day
in this case they were all happy with each other from the get go. i never noticed any bullying at all. they all swam together as if they were best friends. but i see your tang got stung and lived so obviously the poison didnt kill my sailfin then if yours lived... hmm wich now i have no clue how or why mine died.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 06:23 PM   #12
Sheol
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Waxahachie, Tx.
Posts: 3,610
My yellowtail damsel tried to bully my baby One-spot rabbitfish. He vanished 1.5 days later. After the crash, he thought he owned the ENTIRE tank ( which shows damsels should never be left ALONE in a tank..). A justifiable Homicide? Well, Piscicide. whatever!
I think it was self-defense..

Matthew


Sheol is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 08:29 PM   #13
BrianD
RC Mod
 
BrianD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 31,702
Remember, fish aren't "best friends". As best they will tolerate each other.


__________________
Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment.

Current Tank Info: Empty
BrianD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 08:40 PM   #14
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,474
Quote:
Originally Posted by Guygettnby View Post
60g and all the fish were perfectly happy. they are awaiting there new home right now, or they were awaiting there new home until now. the foxface is like maybe 1 1/2in and the 2 tangs were a yellow and sailfin both wich were about the same size. maybe 2 1/2 to 3in in size. but big enough that i seriously doubt it woulda got stuck in the powerhead that it would graze around for the past year.
Why not just wait until after the upgrade to add more big fish? And you're right, a healthy tang wouldn't get stuck in a powerhead.


TampaReefer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/22/2010, 10:44 PM   #15
Kahuna Tuna
Registered Member
 
Kahuna Tuna's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Big Bear Lake, California
Posts: 2,585
A rabbitfish sting is not going to kill a healthy fish. All three of the last Pomacanthus angels I have kept did not get along with my rabbitfish and all were stung numerous times while nipping at them. I agree with Brian, these fish are food competitors and all of them get too big for a 60 gallon tank. I'm not sure what killed your fish but I would bet it wasn't the rabbit. I would not be in a hurry to get any more tangs, even the smaller species need way more room than a 60, especially if you are keeping multiple species.


__________________
"Government is not reason; it is not eloquent; it is force. Like fire, it is a dangerous servant and a fearful master." -George Washington

Current Tank Info: 180 gallon soft coral reef, sailfin and kole tangs, bicolor rabbitfish, majestic and black velvet angels, pair of true percs, orangetail filefish,Orchid dottyback pair, and a yellowtail blue damsel.
Kahuna Tuna is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 06:23 AM   #16
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
i agree that tangs need more space when they start to grow. but i bought all of these fish extremely small so that i could keep them for abit while i was planing my upgrade. when i say i got them small that is an under statement. they were tiny! but now that my tank upgrade is right around the corner this happens so now i will be waiting to replace him until the bigger tank is setup.

on another note i didnt think a foxface could kill a perfectly healthy tang. i just needed to be assured that was not the case here.

thanks for the replys


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 06:28 AM   #17
massman
Marine Fish Wrangler
 
massman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Australia mate!
Posts: 591
Remember that fish can die suddenly, as can humans.
Stroke, heart attack, aneurism etc
I have seen a PBT swimming along, and literally drop dead in front of my eyes.


massman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 09:02 AM   #18
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by massman View Post
Remember that fish can die suddenly, as can humans.
Stroke, heart attack, aneurism etc
I have seen a PBT swimming along, and literally drop dead in front of my eyes.
yea, guess thats true. just sucks when you loose something you have had for awhile. this is the third fish i have lost in the past month. the scooter blenny died after 2 years of owning him, my mystery wrasse decided to go carpet surfing... even with a screen top he managed to find the one open spot were the cords go thru and now my sailfin tang. this hobby defilently has its ups and downs.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 09:26 AM   #19
BrianD
RC Mod
 
BrianD's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Mattoon, IL
Posts: 31,702
Holy cow, I missed that those fish were in a 60 gallon tank. That might explain its weakened condition. My sailfin tang grew like a weed the first year. I can't believe it was doing well in a 60 gallon tank with another tang and a foxface.


__________________
Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment.

Current Tank Info: Empty
BrianD is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 09:53 AM   #20
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by BrianD View Post
Holy cow, I missed that those fish were in a 60 gallon tank. That might explain its weakened condition. My sailfin tang grew like a weed the first year. I can't believe it was doing well in a 60 gallon tank with another tang and a foxface.
the 2 tangs were extremely tiny when put into the tank. they were also added around the same time. they would swim together none stop and never fought. the plan was to get a bigger tank and that got pushed back abit, but the new tank is in the works right now. the problem happened when the fox face was added to the tank, wich i am extremly regreting. i had my doubts but the wife wanted it and it just kinda happened. but i did make sure to buy the smallest one i could find and i did find a small one. probably the smallest i have ever seen being sold since i have started keeping saltwater tanks. figured they would all work out for another month until the new tank was ready... but again i regretfully made the wrong choice on that purchase. cant do anything about it now but wait until the new tank is ready before i buy another tang.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 10:05 AM   #21
TampaReefer79
Premium Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 3,474
This isn't aimed directly at guygettnby solely, but I do believe you could take something from this:

Why do so many people think if they buy what they think is a small tang, it will be ok in such a small tank for a few years? As I've been saying over and over, people get tangs and put em in these little tanks while 'planning an upgrade'. As I keep saying, a lot of things happen...LIFE happens...and a lot of the times, the upgrade doesn't happen. Why not just wait until you have a tank big enough for these fish? I don't understand the need to stress them out in little tanks and make them wait while YOU upgrade. If they can't be housed properly out of the gate, why buy them? I also love the 'they are happy, healthy, and stress free' comments from the fish whisperers. There's no way your sailfin was 'happy' in that 60 gallon tank for the last year plus. It won't grow the same rate in that tank that it would in a bigger tank. If fed properly in a large tank, that sailfin wouldn't FIT into a 60. lol Again, not an attack...just an opinion. Which we all have...it just happens that most don't like mine. lol


TampaReefer79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03/23/2010, 10:18 AM   #22
Guygettnby
Registered Member
 
Guygettnby's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: MD
Posts: 3,143
Quote:
Originally Posted by TampaReefer79 View Post
This isn't aimed directly at guygettnby solely, but I do believe you could take something from this:

Why do so many people think if they buy what they think is a small tang, it will be ok in such a small tank for a few years? As I've been saying over and over, people get tangs and put em in these little tanks while 'planning an upgrade'. As I keep saying, a lot of things happen...LIFE happens...and a lot of the times, the upgrade doesn't happen. Why not just wait until you have a tank big enough for these fish? I don't understand the need to stress them out in little tanks and make them wait while YOU upgrade. If they can't be housed properly out of the gate, why buy them? I also love the 'they are happy, healthy, and stress free' comments from the fish whisperers. There's no way your sailfin was 'happy' in that 60 gallon tank for the last year plus. It won't grow the same rate in that tank that it would in a bigger tank. If fed properly in a large tank, that sailfin wouldn't FIT into a 60. lol Again, not an attack...just an opinion. Which we all have...it just happens that most don't like mine. lol
All good, we all have our own ways of doing things in life. some things work out and others dont. but who is to say that any tang is happy in any tank out there compared to the ocean just sucks cus the other tank woulda been ready for them in another month, maybe less. ohwell, we live and we learn.


Guygettnby is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08/30/2016, 10:25 PM   #23
seabourne17
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Posts: 1
doubt foxface venomous spike kill my naso tang

saw naso tang had a long cut on upper side of her body,noticed for 2 days,it almost recover but 3rd day it died,i have doubt its due to spike of foxface,because that cut was 1 inch long and 2 mm wide...like knife cut mark...now stoped putting any fish with foxface....only hv sailfin tang ang demsil....


seabourne17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12/09/2018, 07:09 PM   #24
mvsjrs
Registered Member
 
mvsjrs's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Posts: 160
I have also been wondering about two deaths in a 92 corner tank within 2 months. Adult marine betta and 2 foot zebra moray. Both were healthy within days prior to dying then found without any noticeable cause of death. I do have a magnificent foxface which is what led me to this post.


mvsjrs is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:45 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2018 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.