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Old 03/04/2017, 05:31 PM   #5326
ThRoewer
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I would not bother putting a regal angel through TTM. If they get ich I treat them with hyposalinity. Of more concern with regals are flukes and that the fish eats.

Seemingly my Sumatra Regal pair has become tired of mysis. But they go nuts over flakes and pellets.
I'm still debating whether or not to get another little Maldives Regal. The one I have has doubled in size since I got it last year. It's now almost the size of my Bali Regal.
The only thing holding me back is the fact that I really don't have a tank large enough for another pair...

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Old 03/04/2017, 07:27 PM   #5327
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i would not bother putting a regal angel through ttm. If they get ich i treat them with hyposalinity.
+1


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Old 03/04/2017, 07:52 PM   #5328
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Originally Posted by Salty150 View Post
+1


Alright yeah, you're probably right..
My bad man!


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Old 03/05/2017, 12:37 PM   #5329
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So my little guy has taken a turn for the worse this morning. I moved him into a 10G QT and he was fine all day and was fine up until I went to bed around 1AM.

This morning however, he was in the corner breathing heavy. He had a white stringy poop hanging off of him and I suspected flukes. I dosed my Prazipro and quite quickly a started seeing more quite strings come out of him.

Everything is perfect. 0 Ammonia, 0 nitrates/nitrites, pH is good as well. Salinity is 1.025. Temperature is a solid 76 degrees.

He was acting this way before Prazi - he appears slightly better, still laying on his side breathing heavy. I have a MP10 and an air bubbler in the tank.

After Prazi, he has continued to have a decent number of long white strings coming off of him - I can see them floating in the water. He has a small amount fixated to him at the current time. I considered a freshwater dip, but didn't want to stress him further. Prazi appears to be doing its job, and the guy doesn't seem to want to give up.

Any thoughts?


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Old 03/05/2017, 12:44 PM   #5330
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I know Prazi takes air out of the water - but this started before Prazi...

Has he eaten? Lately? Before Prazi and all this started to happen?

You dosed Prazi and Prime?


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Old 03/05/2017, 12:46 PM   #5331
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Originally Posted by Salty150 View Post
I know Prazi takes air out of the water - but this started before Prazi...

Has he eaten? Lately? Before Prazi and all this started to happen?
Before we went to bed, I put some flakes in there. He eat those, ate mysis, did NOT eat NLS pellets this time....and that was the last time he ate.


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Old 03/05/2017, 12:48 PM   #5332
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You dosed Prazi and Prime?
Yes. All research I could find said they were safe together. Copper is the one you can't mix. He was this way before any of those two doses and the firefish in there with him has been unaffected.


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Old 03/05/2017, 12:50 PM   #5333
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He also - occassionally - gets up and moves spots.


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Old 03/05/2017, 01:00 PM   #5334
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Damn, wish some of the other pros on here were on and would chime in...

I guess you have a few choices...

Since it started before you added Prazi - you can just let the Prazi do it's thing and see if the fish can make it...

OR...

You can do a 50% water change, bring the salinity down to 1.024, add a little more Prime and something like SeaChem StressGuard - and see if he regains some strength to help him fight off whatever is left...

Wasn't he in 73 degree temp water yesterday - why now 76?


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Old 03/05/2017, 01:05 PM   #5335
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Wasn't he in 73 degree temp water yesterday - why now 76?
That was a mis-type. I look at the thermometer reveals a 74.


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Old 03/05/2017, 01:05 PM   #5336
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Originally Posted by Salty150 View Post
Damn, wish some of the other pros on here were on and would chime in...

I guess you have a few choices...

Since it started before you added Prazi - you can just let the Prazi do it's thing and see if the fish can make it...

OR...

You can do a 50% water change, bring the salinity down to 1.024, add a little more Prime and something like SeaChem StressGuard - and see if he regains some strength to help him fight off whatever is left...

Wasn't he in 73 degree temp water yesterday - why now 76?
I think I am goign to try option A here. He is still alive - and the Prazi is working. I think him letting the medicine work may be the best option.


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Old 03/05/2017, 01:08 PM   #5337
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I think I am goign to try option A here. He is still alive - and the Prazi is working. I think him letting the medicine work may be the best option.
OK, well make sure he is getting PLENTY of air - Prazi strips the water of air...

I also would go get something like SeaChem StressGuard or similar to add to the tank.


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Old 03/05/2017, 02:24 PM   #5338
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I would lower the salinity to somewhere between 1.016 and 1.020. It will lower the stress and energy consumption for the fish and increase the oxygen solubility of the water.

Don't do a freshwater bath. In my experience it doesn't do anything good but stresses the fish a lot.
If skin flukes or ich are of concern I would recommend going to full therapeutic hyposalinity. In my experience Regals handle that very well.

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 03/05/2017, 02:42 PM   #5339
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Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
I would lower the salinity to somewhere between 1.016 and 1.020. It will lower the stress and energy consumption for the fish and increase the oxygen solubility of the water.

Don't do a freshwater bath. In my experience it doesn't do anything good but stresses the fish a lot.
If skin flukes or ich are of concern I would recommend going to full therapeutic hyposalinity. In my experience Regals handle that very well.

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I haven't seen any symptoms of ich. Do I need to lower it slowly?


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Old 03/05/2017, 02:49 PM   #5340
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Marine fish readily adjust to a rapid drop in salinity without any ill effects.

So you don't have to do it as slowly as raising.

It is the raising of salinity that must be done slowly.

Monitor the pH daily as this parameter has a tendency to fall in diluted saltwater.

An adequate oxygen level to provide energy is the top priority crucial to survival and recovery. A sufficient oxygen supply and allowing the fish to swim will reduce stress and help them to remove toxins from the body.

A swing in pH from 7.0 or so (maybe lower) to the pH of natural sea water (about 8.3) in just a few hours is highly stressful. Even a small change in pH, if it is rapid, can cause severe acidosis in fish leading to death.

Rapid temperature swings are also stressful contributing to blood chemistry changes and inhibited immune function.

Slowly adjust the pH no more than .3 per day (example: pH of 7.7 adjusted to 8.0) and the water temperature a couple degrees Fahrenheit each day.


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Old 03/05/2017, 03:27 PM   #5341
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Originally Posted by ThRoewer View Post
I would lower the salinity to somewhere between 1.016 and 1.020. It will lower the stress and energy consumption for the fish and increase the oxygen solubility of the water.

Don't do a freshwater bath. In my experience it doesn't do anything good but stresses the fish a lot.
If skin flukes or ich are of concern I would recommend going to full therapeutic hyposalinity. In my experience Regals handle that very well.

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Salinity is now at 1.020. He seems to be breathing slightly slower (before I lowered the salinity). Perhaps he's calming down and making a comeback. There is a white fluke floating in the water that is half red (blood I assume). Poor guy may have been loaded with these critters. I probably should have done Prazipro first.


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Old 03/05/2017, 03:32 PM   #5342
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Salinity is now at 1.020. He seems to be breathing slightly slower (before I lowered the salinity). Perhaps he's calming down and making a comeback. There is a white fluke floating in the water that is half red (blood I assume). Poor guy may have been loaded with these critters. I probably should have done Prazipro first.
Yes, TTM on Regals (actually on any fish) is not a good idea...

Did you check the PH after lowering the salinity?

And temp?


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Old 03/05/2017, 05:01 PM   #5343
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I've ttm many fishes I don't see ttm an issue.


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Old 03/05/2017, 06:23 PM   #5344
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TTM is only effective against ich, nothing else. And ich is usually escalating slowly enough that you can start treatment when it actually shows up.
With sensitive fish or those that are finicky eaters doing TTM right away is not a good idea.

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Pairs: 4 percula, 3 P. kauderni, 3 D. excisus, 1 ea of P. diacanthus, S. splendidus, C. altivelis O. rosenblatti, D. janssi, S. yasha & a Gramma loreto trio
3 P. diacanthus. 2 C. starcki

Current Tank Info: 200 gal 4 tank system (40x28x24 + 40B + 40B sump tank + 20g refugium) + 30x18x18 mixed reef + 20g East Pacific biotop + 20g FW +...
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Old 03/05/2017, 07:05 PM   #5345
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I am sorry to report that he is no longer with us. I placed his body in a freshwater container - and within minutes there were tons of little white things escaping his body. I think its safe to say this was a flukes issue getting to him.

I have called Live Aquaria and they are shipping out another.

I don't have the ability to manage Hypo, TTM is my best bet and my display is ich free.

When the new guys come in on Tuesday, should I do a Prazipro bath first (actually just leave it in the 20L and replace with water changes) and monitor him for awhile?


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Old 03/05/2017, 08:06 PM   #5346
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I've ttm many fishes I don't see ttm an issue.

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TTM is almost useless - it ONLY "works" on ich - nothing else.

And most people do it without even seeing any signs of ich.

Ich can be treated by so many other ways without stressing fish - especially delicate ones like the Regal.


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Old 03/05/2017, 08:07 PM   #5347
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TTM is only effective against ich, nothing else. And ich is usually escalating slowly enough that you can start treatment when it actually shows up.
With sensitive fish or those that are finicky eaters doing TTM right away is not a good idea.
Exactly.


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Old 03/05/2017, 08:14 PM   #5348
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I am sorry to report that he is no longer with us. I placed his body in a freshwater container - and within minutes there were tons of little white things escaping his body. I think its safe to say this was a flukes issue getting to him.

I have called Live Aquaria and they are shipping out another.

I don't have the ability to manage Hypo, TTM is my best bet and my display is ich free.

When the new guys come in on Tuesday, should I do a Prazipro bath first (actually just leave it in the 20L and replace with water changes) and monitor him for awhile?
So sorry to hear that...

Before getting your new Regal, please take a look at these:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/1/aafeature2

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2006/3/aafeature1


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Old 03/05/2017, 08:58 PM   #5349
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I just went through 6 weeks or so of QT on my regal and I did this:

1. Fish arrived and put into formalin bath for 20 min and then into 20 long QT with some live rock and a big pvc pipe to hide in.
2. Observed fish for a few days and offered huge variety of foods from frozen to clam to pellets and flakes.
3. Noticed vigorous head shaking and being fairly lethargic so I did a round of prazi pro
4. Appetite then came back and it ate everything I offered previously.
5. Did a second round of prazi and observed for the next near 4 weeks.
6. Notice inch like spots around the 4 week mark. I was concerned for velvet though since it looked like a dusting instead of salt grains, he didn't eat and it basically showed symptoms over night. I did also see him scratching on the live rock as well. That day I put into a formalin dip and into TTM. After 3 daily transfers he was acting like he was prior to symptoms and he was eating everything again. I was relieved it was not velvet.
7. Did daily transfers for a total of 11 to help minimize ammonia issues since he is a bit larger and I fed heavily. I did not see any real stress signs and he was just hanging out in his pvc "cave" like previously in the QT. I used 5 gallon buckets since it's all I really can maintain in the apartment for it.
8. Once done with TTM I put into the display and after a few shy days he has been out swimming around and eating like a pig.

It's been about 3 weeks since he has been in the display and So far so good. He is a fat fish and looking real healthy to me so I am happy about that. 2 months total is not a success story IMO but I have thus far been successful getting rid of surely flukes and ich now. My thought on the buckets is that it's not ideal but it was better than having parasites eating away at him. I only was going to do ttm if needed and I clearly had to. If you know you have an ich infested fish (or suspect it), I think we should do what you can to help the fish whether your preferred method is hypo, copper or ttm. I personally have used all 3 before and find ttm to work best for me in my current living situation. I have a purple tang who got ich bad before due to my lazy QT of a fish and it clearly suffered, so I will do what I can to make sure my ich prone fish doesn't have it again. I do not want to break down the tank and go fallow again if I can avoid it. I'm currently stockpiling what I need for a much needed upgrade when I move out of my apartment. hopefully that will also allow the space for more QT space when I need it so I don't have to use my kitchen counter and guest bathroom lol


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Old 03/05/2017, 09:27 PM   #5350
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I have called Live Aquaria and they are shipping out another.
It's probably safe to assume that all of these juvi Regals came in with the same shipment and kept in the same holding system... Does that mean that there's a good chance that they're all infected?


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