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Old 02/27/2006, 08:35 PM   #26
DaddyJax
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vodka?


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Success is not measured by the person who has the most but by the person that needs the least!!

Current Tank Info: Currently tankless :(
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Old 02/27/2006, 10:10 PM   #27
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While this is the answer to most if life's problems , it isn't going to do a thing here


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Current Tank Info: ...but, but, the ocean is right there...
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Old 02/28/2006, 10:56 AM   #28
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Thanks guys, great advice MCsaxmaster,

No it's not a refugia type Macro algae, it has a tough footing is about 1" long 1-2mm stems, not leaf like but bristley. I will up water changes, increase carbon, reduce feedings to a ration level closely monitoring my fish.

So in all of you opinions would the excess nutrients or the lack of due to the algae consuming them cause pale corals?

Lee


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Old 02/28/2006, 11:28 AM   #29
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Doubtful, but it might slow recovery significantly. If you're seeing that much algal growth there are plenty of dissolved nutrients (presumably). Particulate would still be useful to the corals and not directly useful to the algae, so that is still worth trying. Certainly don't stop feeding or underfeed the tank in an attempt to control algae, but don't shoot yourself in the foot by greatly overfeeding either.

Chris


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Old 02/28/2006, 11:51 AM   #30
lcheesman
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Ok,
I'm charging my batteries up so I can post some pics soon.

Recovery is one thing but why would some of the new coral frags pale and have no polyp extension? I really am at a loss here.

Just to update on my current chemistry readings.

Nitrate unreadable
Phosphate unreadable
Calcium 440ppm
Alk 9.6Dkh
Magnesium 1450
silicate 0
salinity 1.026
temperature 26c less than 1c swing now
water changes currently 25 gallons every 2 weeks
skimmer deltec ap851..now with 50mg ozone
2 cups of kent marine carbon
The ro di unit is at around 4ppm tds

Never had these problem with my old tank , it was great just got too small...It didn't shrink when it got wet I mean the corals out grew it....fat chance of that happening at the moment in the current tank.


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Old 03/02/2006, 03:43 PM   #31
Aaron M.
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Are you using the really low region phosphate testkit from Deltec? If so then your phosphates are most likely too low. All living things need phosphorus to live so this could be the problem.

Ive heard of this happening to someone before. Also, do you use phosphate binders?


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Old 03/03/2006, 05:45 AM   #32
lcheesman
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I find it very hard to beleive I could have micro and macro algal growth in an aquarium and yet still could not support acropora species through lack of phosphate from low phosphate regions..much less than 0.01ppm? I don't know?

The test kit is the high sensitivity kit yes.


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Old 03/04/2006, 08:09 AM   #33
lcheesman
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Ok, covinced now that there is a lack of something..perhaps iron, amino acids... Not sure on the correct format to post pics but here you go, they actually look a bit more pale than they actually are but still you can see the issues. From reading various other posts and other materials...zeovit site...it seems that the tips and trunks of these corals are the first to suffer when there is a lack of available nutrients..e.g. iron. My skimmer 'deltec ap850' is a superb skimmer yet it finds it hard to find much to skim in this tank.












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Old 03/05/2006, 09:54 PM   #34
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How long has this been going on for you? It is a slow gradual process for you? I assume you haven't had any temp swings or other bleaching events.

This is the exact same problem I have in my tank! My LPS even look bleached like yours.

PE is good, but most new frags gradually lose color. I don't "feed" the corals much, but I stir the shallow sandbed every few days.

It looks like pictures from a nutrient-starved BB tank. My numbers test at 0, but like you I have bit of cyano/algae growth. I am at my wits end!



hope I'm not hijacking



Last edited by shelburn61; 03/05/2006 at 10:10 PM.
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Old 03/06/2006, 12:42 AM   #35
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shelburn61,

Perhaps we try and sort this one together then

I am also posting in the reef Chemistry forum.

Here's the thread
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...08#post6887408

"hope I'm not hijacking" - course not, two brains trying to find the answer is going to be better than one. pm me on your set-up with all details. We could have a different problem but it may as well be one and the same for the time being.

"It looks like pictures from a nutrient-starved BB tank" - my thoughts exactly.

I have o cyano, just a bit of micro and macro.

No temperature swings, no bleaching events-that I know of remembering that even newly aquired corals are going pale.

With the brains and experience of fellow rc members I'm sure we can get to the bottom of this.


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Old 03/06/2006, 08:07 AM   #36
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I have a similar problem but on a smaller scale.

Are you both running BB? I think it is the low nutrient thing. I cant handle overfeeding my tank.


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Current Tank Info: 93g Marineland cube. SPS dominated. Vortech mp40. 2 x AI sol super blues. SRO 2000 int skimmer. Mag 18 return. Korallin 1500 calcium reactor.
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Old 03/06/2006, 08:15 AM   #37
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I'm not running bare bottom no, and shelburn61 mentions stirring a shallow sand bed. I think lack of nutrients may be a problem..my water is always christal clear and blue. Wahat about yours shelburn61?

The process of paling takes about 2 weeks, 4 weeks really quite pale.

When I use polyfilters or lots of carbon or a bit of ozone the corals get even paler. Literally within a few days it worsens.
Do you find this shelburn61?


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Old 03/06/2006, 08:24 AM   #38
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How is your magnesium level?

Have you tried running without the Rowaphos, or on a reduced quantity in your reactor?

I've seen loss of SPS coloration associated with both of these issues.


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Old 03/06/2006, 08:30 AM   #39
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icheesman, your problem sounds more extreme than mine.

Highlander, my mag levels are about 1350 and I dont run rowaphos.


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Current Tank Info: 93g Marineland cube. SPS dominated. Vortech mp40. 2 x AI sol super blues. SRO 2000 int skimmer. Mag 18 return. Korallin 1500 calcium reactor.
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Old 03/06/2006, 08:33 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally posted by drock59
icheesman, your problem sounds more extreme than mine.

Highlander, my mag levels are about 1350 and I dont run rowaphos.
drock59,
My questions were really for lcheesman, as related to the original parametric / system information he posted.

How much are you skimming, I've also seen the issue with over skimming?


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Old 03/06/2006, 10:57 AM   #41
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Ooops, just trying to hijack.

If your skimmmer question is for me then:

http://www.customaquatic.com/customa...keyresult5.asp

PS-2000. Recirculating, rated for 180. I honestly dont believe in overskimming.


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Current Tank Info: 93g Marineland cube. SPS dominated. Vortech mp40. 2 x AI sol super blues. SRO 2000 int skimmer. Mag 18 return. Korallin 1500 calcium reactor.
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Old 03/06/2006, 11:45 AM   #42
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Hello,

Thanks guys for all of your responses....I really hope with all your help we can pin down the problem...it's been going on a long while (1 1/2years) and I must admit I find it hard to sit in my living room looking at my tank without ending dazed trying to work the problem out.

If the skimmer question is to me Highlander then:
I skim a bit wet with a deltec ap850, it seems to have a hard time collecting that much....I had cyano about 1 year ago, I installed this skimmer and it knocked it out within 2 weeks. The skimmer produces a mass of fine bubbles throughout the entire column and is tuned to the best I can get it. I clean the cup every 4-5 days. I do not believe in cleaning every day as this seems to lessen skimate for a day or so. I still find it hard to believe I have a few algae issues...surely if there were excess nutrients though the corals would be dark brown?

Coralline growth is very slow, the chemistry of the aquarium should see lush growths of coralline IMO.

I have at times used only rowaphos in a small bag in the sump but never completely stopped it...could it be the rowaphos causing the paleness? It's not just the sps, it's everything really.

Magnesium is around 1400ppm right now, I just tested it.

I do not use filter material or floss, just the skimmer which recieves surface water.


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Old 03/06/2006, 11:50 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by lcheesman
I'm not running bare bottom no, and shelburn61 mentions stirring a shallow sand bed. I think lack of nutrients may be a problem..my water is always christal clear and blue. Wahat about yours shelburn61?

The process of paling takes about 2 weeks, 4 weeks really quite pale.

When I use polyfilters or lots of carbon or a bit of ozone the corals get even paler. Literally within a few days it worsens.
Do you find this shelburn61?
My problems started 2-3 months ago after treating with Interceptor. Red bugs are gone, but I had a substantial algae bloom from the pod dieoff. Water changes took care of some STN issues and most of the algae.

The prime example of my problem was a 2.5" ORA blue tort frag I got after the above problems subsided. I initially kept it on the bottom to acclimate and it began to lighten immediately. It came to me an intense midnight blue/purple and is now mostly white with blue coralites. It has recieved good flow throughout. PE is the best of any coral and it continues to look healthy and grow slowly. I can see zooxanthelae lines in the tissue so it has not completely bleached, but it refuses to regain color

I really doubt lack of nutrients is the problem for me. Before the problems started, I had literally 0 algae growth. Coraline growth was an algae bloom for me. Now I have a brown, fuzzy slime (I guess its diatoms?) covering the rocks and glass, and chaeto grows much better than ever in the fuge.

lcheeseman,
I do not run ozone or any chemical fitration except carbon. I actually run more carbon now, but I haven't noticed a difference. If these things make the problem worse for you it might point to a excessive light or UV or a bad bulb as clarifying the water would amplify these problems.

The only improvements so far came when I switched out my 6-month-old XM 175w. I switched to a 250w Coralvue 10k and things improved a little. Some corals have responded better than others. The improvement might have come from the shortened photoperiod during the bulb switch, but I think it was the bulb itself.

I didn't see which brand bulb you use?

Tank specs (see below also):
Water parameters are all good, w/ nutrients testing at 0 by salifert.
Temp: 78.5-80, pH 8.1-8.2
Flow is decent, but could be better (working on that).
Photoperiod:12hrs actinic, 8hrs MH.
Topoff run through DIY kalk reactor with pickling lime.


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Old 03/06/2006, 12:03 PM   #44
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Bulbs are made by arcadia and have been changed during this problem. I have 2 160watt 03 actinics. My tank is 30inches deep, do you think that harmful uv could reach the bottom to still cause trouble there?


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Old 03/06/2006, 03:57 PM   #45
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You acclimated when you switched out bulbs right?

I don't know much about arcadia bulbs, but I just mention bulbs b/c sometimes "bad" bulbs get blamed for otherwise unexplained bleaching.

I believe change in spectrum is more of an issue than UV when a bulb goes "bad" and your glass shield should filter out most UV anyway. I probably shouldn't have mentioned UV.


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Old 03/07/2006, 12:29 AM   #46
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You acclimated when you switched out right?
yes I did but remember I am the same issues with newly aquired frags and corals.

This is what I belive could be wrong from the information I have gathered from these posts.

1.I could have a toxin thats coming through the ro/di water perhaps a heavy metal in abnormal quantities...copper, lead or the like

Action: Renew di cartridge, run some tests..copper etc.

2.There may be a long term lack of something, most likely nutrients perhaps phosphate, nitrate, iron etc. Perhaps too little feeding.

Action: Caution required here, I will increase each component one at a time and monitor results if no 1 didn't sort the problem that is.

3.My 300watts of 03 actinic could be giving out harmful uv.
Action:switch off for a few weeks

so far I have ruled out.
Salinity
Temperature
Main Lights
Predation

It seems there is no deffinitive answer at the moment as to what is happening. I would like to say I am reasonably careful where my reef is consered and the problem I am having seems beyond my scope of knowledge.

I am going to tackle each possible cause of the problem one at a time slowly with an aim to find the problem over the coming months.

I would like to thank all that have contributed thus far, I am so glad there are folk about like yourselves that genuinely like to help. I will be posting my findings here every few days.


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Old 03/07/2006, 12:21 PM   #47
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Okay Guys,

Last night I turned off my VHO Philips 03 160watt actinics just in case they are giving off something thats effecting the corals.

Today I have noticed polyps on 2 corals that had zero before...this may just be coincidence but I will follow the test through for a week to see if there is any significant improvement.


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Old 03/16/2006, 12:19 PM   #48
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Guys,

Would 29 centigrade cause pale pigmentation or stressed corals?


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Old 03/18/2006, 12:51 AM   #49
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Quote:
Originally posted by lcheesman
Guys,

Would 29 centigrade cause pale pigmentation or stressed corals?
Yep. It might. That's like 84.2F which is definitely high for a reef. If the temp rose quickly it could definitely cause bleaching.

I think some people do run their tanks this hot in the summer, but I remember reading the other day about the great barrier reef bleaching at 84.


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Old 01/05/2011, 01:27 PM   #50
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I'm having a similar problem: no coralline growth, pale corals, recession on acros. Did you ever figure out what was going on, icheesman?


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