Frag help

SumoBlenny · 02/04/2006, 09:35 PM

After a long time lurking, I'm finally a member

I am considering fragging my favorite zoas that have been starting to encroach on other colonies and wanted some advice on how to do it safely. I've been reading a lot of threads about letting them settle in gravel bowls, superglue etc, but have heard horror stories about disease wiping them all out, including the parent colony. I was wondering what people thought about using lugols dips before and after fragging, and whether it is better to allow the frags to heal in the parent tank or if it is safer to let them heal in a different tank. I was also wondering if there were any varieties of zoas that were easier or more difficult to frag. These are photos of the two that I would like to frag, so any thoughts on these varieties would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!
Marie

MUCHO REEF · 02/05/2006, 08:34 AM

Welcome to RC SumoBlenny, great question and great pictures BTW. The first pics looks like a Sociatus ( sp). There are many ways to go about fragging/propagating zoos. Fragging them is very simple, however, if peformed incorrectly, you might create some issues.

"I am considering fragging my favorite zoas that have been starting to encroach on other colonies and wanted some advice on how to do it safely. "

1. You could place some 1" x 1" or 1" x 2" frag rocks around the mother colony and allow them to migrate/grow onto these rocks which can then be placed in a prop tank or sold.

OR

You could allow these small 1 to 2 inch rocks to become covered with zoos and then chip off 4 or 5 polyps to glue to a larger rock.

2. If the mother colony has already started to spread to an adjacent rock, remove both rocks from the your tank, using a very sharp, new, clean scaple, cut in one fluid motion between the polyps that connect the two rocks. It is very safe and advisable to quickly dip them for a minute or two in Lugols. Then a quick flush in tank water outside of the tank in a seperate bowl. Then place them back into there original system. The anticeptic properties in the Lugols will help/aid the disected flesh/cuticle/stolon to heal and ward off any potential infection. I strongly recommend you place them back in the original tank an allow them to recooperate before moving them. Too often reefers will place them into a new system right after cutting and this is when they are most suceptible to an infection. It's ok to wait a week or so to allow them to heal without the added stress of moving them to a new system that they have to acclimate to while recovering from the disection. Others will disagree, but I always error on the side of caution, that is unless you have money to throw away, LOL.

"I've been reading a lot of threads about letting them settle in gravel bowls, superglue etc, but have heard horror stories about disease wiping them all out, including the parent colony"

I have never used gravel bowls, I'm sure they work fine. Infections can wipe out any coral if the proper precautions are not taken. Persoanally, I never super glue the flesh of a polyp. The glue can get very hot and sometimes cause the polyp to detach and/or die. I have glued the flesh many years ago however more times than not, the frag failed to prosper. Others may have had better luck, I just choose not to use that method. I use thread or a tight weave bridle vail to secure them until they attach.

"I was wondering what people thought about using lugols dips before and after fragging, and whether it is better to allow the frags to heal in the parent tank or if it is safer to let them heal in a different tank."

Lugols is completely safe if used correctly. No need to dip before fragging, only afterwards if the cuticle is cut. I would never cut and transfer at the same time.

"I was also wondering if there were any varieties of zoas that were easier or more difficult to frag"

I would consider all zoos the same when it comes to propagation

Hope this helps.

Regards, Mucho

.

CoralNutz · 02/05/2006, 10:19 AM

Great advice as usuall Mucho... I will concur about the glue touching the flesh and getting hot. What I do to combat this and it seems to work well. I keep a bowl of tank water just for dipping the frags in as soon as they are glued. It's sort of a flash curing and creates skin on the glue to prevent it from burning/damaging the tissue. I think if at all possible you should avoid gluing flesh as Mucho mentioned, but if you have to, dip the fresh glued frag in water right away (within seconds) after glueing it and it will prevent some damage. I glue about 80% of my frags directly on the tissue and since i have started "flash curing" the super glue gel the loss rate has went down hill dramatically.

MUCHO REEF · 02/05/2006, 11:02 AM

Great point Coralnutz. I'll give that a try next time. Thanks.

Mucho

SumoBlenny · 02/06/2006, 10:04 AM

Thank you so much for your helpful advice. I think I have some rearranging to do. I don't have much room to place small rocks around the mother colonies without smashing other corals. Maybe I need to buy a bigger tank! For the time being, maybe I'll try snipping off small pieces of rock and mounting them using the superglue method. Thanks again for your help. I'll post some pictures to let you know how I did. Eeek!

Marie

cmondo · 02/06/2006, 07:26 PM

Yeah, buying a bigger tank is usually the best option for these sort of things. Other then that, do what Mucho said.

02/04/2006, 09:35 PM	#1
SumoBlenny Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 69	Frag help After a long time lurking, I'm finally a member I am considering fragging my favorite zoas that have been starting to encroach on other colonies and wanted some advice on how to do it safely. I've been reading a lot of threads about letting them settle in gravel bowls, superglue etc, but have heard horror stories about disease wiping them all out, including the parent colony. I was wondering what people thought about using lugols dips before and after fragging, and whether it is better to allow the frags to heal in the parent tank or if it is safer to let them heal in a different tank. I was also wondering if there were any varieties of zoas that were easier or more difficult to frag. These are photos of the two that I would like to frag, so any thoughts on these varieties would be greatly appreciated. Thanks! Marie

02/05/2006, 08:34 AM	#2
MUCHO REEF Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,350	Welcome to RC SumoBlenny, great question and great pictures BTW. The first pics looks like a Sociatus ( sp). There are many ways to go about fragging/propagating zoos. Fragging them is very simple, however, if peformed incorrectly, you might create some issues. "I am considering fragging my favorite zoas that have been starting to encroach on other colonies and wanted some advice on how to do it safely. " 1. You could place some 1" x 1" or 1" x 2" frag rocks around the mother colony and allow them to migrate/grow onto these rocks which can then be placed in a prop tank or sold. OR You could allow these small 1 to 2 inch rocks to become covered with zoos and then chip off 4 or 5 polyps to glue to a larger rock. 2. If the mother colony has already started to spread to an adjacent rock, remove both rocks from the your tank, using a very sharp, new, clean scaple, cut in one fluid motion between the polyps that connect the two rocks. It is very safe and advisable to quickly dip them for a minute or two in Lugols. Then a quick flush in tank water outside of the tank in a seperate bowl. Then place them back into there original system. The anticeptic properties in the Lugols will help/aid the disected flesh/cuticle/stolon to heal and ward off any potential infection. I strongly recommend you place them back in the original tank an allow them to recooperate before moving them. Too often reefers will place them into a new system right after cutting and this is when they are most suceptible to an infection. It's ok to wait a week or so to allow them to heal without the added stress of moving them to a new system that they have to acclimate to while recovering from the disection. Others will disagree, but I always error on the side of caution, that is unless you have money to throw away, LOL. "I've been reading a lot of threads about letting them settle in gravel bowls, superglue etc, but have heard horror stories about disease wiping them all out, including the parent colony" I have never used gravel bowls, I'm sure they work fine. Infections can wipe out any coral if the proper precautions are not taken. Persoanally, I never super glue the flesh of a polyp. The glue can get very hot and sometimes cause the polyp to detach and/or die. I have glued the flesh many years ago however more times than not, the frag failed to prosper. Others may have had better luck, I just choose not to use that method. I use thread or a tight weave bridle vail to secure them until they attach. "I was wondering what people thought about using lugols dips before and after fragging, and whether it is better to allow the frags to heal in the parent tank or if it is safer to let them heal in a different tank." Lugols is completely safe if used correctly. No need to dip before fragging, only afterwards if the cuticle is cut. I would never cut and transfer at the same time. "I was also wondering if there were any varieties of zoas that were easier or more difficult to frag" I would consider all zoos the same when it comes to propagation Hope this helps. Regards, Mucho . __________________ Anyone can build a reef.....the greater challenge......is to grow one. Current Tank Info: 70 gallon zoanthid, Palythoa and Mushroom Reef. Last edited by MUCHO REEF; 02/05/2006 at 08:48 AM.

02/05/2006, 11:02 AM	#4
MUCHO REEF Registered Member. Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Michigan Posts: 4,350	Great point Coralnutz. I'll give that a try next time. Thanks. Mucho __________________ Anyone can build a reef.....the greater challenge......is to grow one. Current Tank Info: 70 gallon zoanthid, Palythoa and Mushroom Reef.

02/06/2006, 10:04 AM	#5
SumoBlenny Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Arizona Posts: 69	zoo fragging Thank you so much for your helpful advice. I think I have some rearranging to do. I don't have much room to place small rocks around the mother colonies without smashing other corals. Maybe I need to buy a bigger tank! For the time being, maybe I'll try snipping off small pieces of rock and mounting them using the superglue method. Thanks again for your help. I'll post some pictures to let you know how I did. Eeek! Marie

02/05/2006, 10:19 AM	#3
CoralNutz Moved On Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Minnesota Posts: 741	Great advice as usuall Mucho... I will concur about the glue touching the flesh and getting hot. What I do to combat this and it seems to work well. I keep a bowl of tank water just for dipping the frags in as soon as they are glued. It's sort of a flash curing and creates skin on the glue to prevent it from burning/damaging the tissue. I think if at all possible you should avoid gluing flesh as Mucho mentioned, but if you have to, dip the fresh glued frag in water right away (within seconds) after glueing it and it will prevent some damage. I glue about 80% of my frags directly on the tissue and since i have started "flash curing" the super glue gel the loss rate has went down hill dramatically.

02/06/2006, 07:26 PM	#6
cmondo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: 08530 Posts: 611	Yeah, buying a bigger tank is usually the best option for these sort of things. Other then that, do what Mucho said.