Info on Bangaii Social Structure

BlackOnyx · 03/02/2006, 01:51 PM

I know the male raises the kids, however who is in charge?

I've read reefers who've had 2 males and a single female and both males were having kids??

Others who've raised the fry along with the parents without problems.

At my LFS they had a school of about 8 all together too.

clownfish75 · 03/02/2006, 03:37 PM

I had a group of 15 that used to spawn all the time, the large groups break down the agressive nature of the fish when in small groups.

Christian

BlackOnyx · 03/02/2006, 04:27 PM

15 in a what 30gal?

Mieko · 03/06/2006, 11:18 AM

Most public aquariums I've seen also have large groups of banggais that breed regularly, the one near me had about 50 fish in probably a 100g tank last I checked, with quite a few males currently carrying babies. I don't know if they try to catch the fry, or just let them fend for themselves.
I've read that males are usually pretty agressive to each other if there are two in a small to medium sized tank, but a large enough reef tank should have enough space for 2 males. Females don't seem to be too picky about mating, I think someone (Frank?) was trying to share a female with two males with pretty good success.

Also, the males only "raise" the babies by mouth brooding, once he releases them, he doesn't take care of them at all, and will sometimes eat them.

mwp · 03/06/2006, 11:28 AM

You asked "who is in charge"? Well, in the three species of cardinals I've spawned, the "female" definitely runs the show, the male is simply there as a willing partner to do her bidding.

First, it seems that females are the ones to initiate courtship by displaying a willingness to spawn. The female definitely picks her mate and then defends her choice.

Post spawn, especially in my Apogon leptacanthus, the female actually protected the brooding male from all the other tankmates. By the same token, my female banger does the same for the male while he's brooding.

This "protective behavior" is somewhat unique - you don't see it in other mouthbrooding fish like African Cichlids.

FWIW,

MP

beaniebeagle · 03/06/2006, 01:23 PM

how do you tell the males from females??????

mwp · 03/06/2006, 02:31 PM

mostly via behavioral observations, but of course, when you only have 2 or three, it's pretty easy to learn which fish is the one always holding the eggs and which one gets "skinny" post spawn. That's the only truly RELIABLE way...i.e. see my Apogon leptacanthus breeding log for futher details - the ones I thought were males were in fact both females, and the one "female" turned out to be the male. Go figure. Observations of behavior and outright breeding is the only way to really nail it down.

MP

clownfish75 · 03/06/2006, 03:32 PM

it was 15 in about 40 gal

BlackOnyx · 03/06/2006, 03:51 PM

You had 15 bangaii in a 40gal?

Males have more of a rounded jaw, and female a sharper slant.

clownfish75 · 03/06/2006, 03:57 PM

It was 15 in half of a tank 5ftX 20" X20" whatever that is, worked like a charm normally had 2-3 carrying eggs, but yeilded very little, think the rest probably ate the babies.

Christian

03/02/2006, 01:51 PM	#1
BlackOnyx Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: in front of my tank Posts: 474	Info on Bangaii Social Structure I know the male raises the kids, however who is in charge? I've read reefers who've had 2 males and a single female and both males were having kids?? Others who've raised the fry along with the parents without problems. At my LFS they had a school of about 8 all together too.

03/06/2006, 01:23 PM	#6
beaniebeagle Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: baltimore md Posts: 388	how do you tell the males from females?????? __________________ stupid questions do not exist, just too many stupid people Current Tank Info: 120g,1260 eheim,reef octo skimmer,vortechs x2,tek 8X54w, 2 false percs,1 bartlett anthia, 1 baby mandarin, 2 purple firefish, 2 green gobies, 1 citron goby, 1 bengai cardinal

03/02/2006, 03:37 PM	#2
clownfish75 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 483	I had a group of 15 that used to spawn all the time, the large groups break down the agressive nature of the fish when in small groups. Christian

03/02/2006, 04:27 PM	#3
BlackOnyx Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: in front of my tank Posts: 474	15 in a what 30gal?

03/06/2006, 11:18 AM	#4
Mieko Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Posts: 14	Most public aquariums I've seen also have large groups of banggais that breed regularly, the one near me had about 50 fish in probably a 100g tank last I checked, with quite a few males currently carrying babies. I don't know if they try to catch the fry, or just let them fend for themselves. I've read that males are usually pretty agressive to each other if there are two in a small to medium sized tank, but a large enough reef tank should have enough space for 2 males. Females don't seem to be too picky about mating, I think someone (Frank?) was trying to share a female with two males with pretty good success. Also, the males only "raise" the babies by mouth brooding, once he releases them, he doesn't take care of them at all, and will sometimes eat them.

03/06/2006, 11:28 AM	#5
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	You asked "who is in charge"? Well, in the three species of cardinals I've spawned, the "female" definitely runs the show, the male is simply there as a willing partner to do her bidding. First, it seems that females are the ones to initiate courtship by displaying a willingness to spawn. The female definitely picks her mate and then defends her choice. Post spawn, especially in my Apogon leptacanthus, the female actually protected the brooding male from all the other tankmates. By the same token, my female banger does the same for the male while he's brooding. This "protective behavior" is somewhat unique - you don't see it in other mouthbrooding fish like African Cichlids. FWIW, MP

03/06/2006, 02:31 PM	#7
mwp Moved On Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Chicago, IL Posts: 2,637	mostly via behavioral observations, but of course, when you only have 2 or three, it's pretty easy to learn which fish is the one always holding the eggs and which one gets "skinny" post spawn. That's the only truly RELIABLE way...i.e. see my Apogon leptacanthus breeding log for futher details - the ones I thought were males were in fact both females, and the one "female" turned out to be the male. Go figure. Observations of behavior and outright breeding is the only way to really nail it down. MP

03/06/2006, 03:32 PM	#8
clownfish75 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 483	it was 15 in about 40 gal

03/06/2006, 03:51 PM	#9
BlackOnyx Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: in front of my tank Posts: 474	You had 15 bangaii in a 40gal? Males have more of a rounded jaw, and female a sharper slant.

03/06/2006, 03:57 PM	#10
clownfish75 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Queensland, Australia Posts: 483	It was 15 in half of a tank 5ftX 20" X20" whatever that is, worked like a charm normally had 2-3 carrying eggs, but yeilded very little, think the rest probably ate the babies. Christian