Coral Reef ??

[tjampm]

Ok, I know this question will demonstrate my lack of understanding of an issue, but I will ask it anyway: Many news stories predict the demise of coral reefs due to global warming/ocean temp. rising. But, if temps are rising in areas where corals flourish, aren't they also rising in places previously too cold for corals, making it more habitable for these displaced corals? If there's anyone who knows about this, I'd love to hear how off base I am!

[ZippyBoy]

The simple hypothesis is that the rate of change is too great for the critters to adapt. By the term adapt I not only mean the ability to stay in 1 place but also the ability to populate other regions in large enough numbers to make viable populations.

[luminary]

This is a rather interestingly timed question. I just finished reading a book that got me interested in the actual science behind the issues of global warming. I've just started so I don't have any great insights yet , but I'll give it a try.

Assuming the significant increase in average ocean temperature is actually happening, I've a couple of thoughts that would explain against your idea.

First and foremost, while the average might be increasing, changes are localized. There are in fact places where the local average temperatures are decreasing. This applies to both land and sea temperatures. So it might be true that the local temperature on say the great barrier reef is increasing causing a decrease in life, but that doesn't mean that a near by location had a sufficient decrease. I say near by because a barren area needs to be settled somehow and the most likely way is from a near by reef.

Most reefs take hundreds, if not thousands of years to fully establish themselves (a quick google gives the age of the GBR at 6,000 to 10,000 years old and the florida keys reef system at 5,000 to 7,000 years old). If there is an event that causes the massive die off of major reef systems in a short period of time, clearly new reefs would not be established in time. Of course, that's not to say that smaller reef systems could not settle. However, if you accept that the average temperature is increasing, and typical growth rates of corals are measure in low centimeters per year, it's unlikely that a new reef would be able to establish itself before local temperatures again increased.

I personally find this to be a fascinating area of knowledge. If you're interested in it, I suggest you do some research beyond just the media hype. You may be surprised to find that much of what you hear in the media does not have scientific backing, or even worse, may contradict what little scientific research there is. And there are, IMO, areas where there is research that should be considered important and are ignored by the media at large.

[Timothy McCandless]

Check out the book

State of fear
by: Michael Crichton

It talks about the global warming scare being a farce. Very interesting book

[Dastank]

Great topic, I would love to hear more discussion on this!

[Bretty999]

Isnt Michael Crichton a fiction author?

[luminary]

Yes he is, though he typically choses topics that have some bearing on current scientific issues. And he usually cites real world references. He's certainly not an author to use as a reference himself, but does inspire interesting topics to think about.

[RandyStacyE]

I have noticed that in the last 20 years or so the Florida Keys reefs have been dying off. I don’t know if this is related, but this seemed to start happening right after they stopped allowing “trenching canals� for homes and completely halted 100% of everything without state permits. These big laws have proven to have big results.

Maybe that is just a coincidence but it seemed to me that once the government halted all human interaction without permit everything started to diminish.

I remember when you could shark fish, no limits, no size requirements, etc… Now you can’t even look at a shark without apologizing to it. I think we all know the results - there are more sharks in Florida than ever and it is a growing “problem�. When I first heard about this I naturally predicted this. I have been diving my whole life in the Keys (on vacations) and never stumbled upon a shark other than nurse sharks. I was coming to the surface (about 1 year ago) and this shark seemed to be intrigued with my legs! Keep in mind I have a tank on my back and exiting the water can be a somewhat slow process! I had mixed feelings about that situation.

[Inferno]

Randy,
The shark problem is greatly exaggerated by the media. The chances of a shark attack are very low. Even in the bahamas where you can't go snorkelling without seing a shark, the odds are greater that you will die from a falling coconut than a shark attack.

[Kent E]

We don't cause global warming, period. If it is happening which is debateable it bacause of a normal cycle.

[Inferno]

How can you say we don't cause global warming? Are there other species building factories which pollute and also drive cars? We definately cause global warming, the question is whether it is at a rate that will cause any effect.
Is it a normal cycle that humans build more and more factories, and destroy more and more natural land to build these factories?

[speckled trout]

Kent E, I have to agree. Many scientists do not adhere to this belief.

Also, the reason you have more of a chance of "dieing by a falling coconut" is the mere fact that people spend most of their time on land, not in the water. Statistics can usually be made to say whatever the person using them wants them to say. A person who spends a lot more time in the water(several times a week), around sharks, is significantly more prone to being attacked than someone who only goes to the beach once a year. Having said that, the chances of being attacked are very slim.

I have spent countless hours wadefishing bayflats and the surf for the last 30 years and haven't been hit. I would have to say, however, that the chances of me being bit are higher than most people's. Over the years I have had a few get a little too friendly. On several occassions I have had to use force to drive them away. I must note that on these occassions I had a stringer with fish on it that was definitely increasing the shark's interest. Still, that's of little comfort when a 6 to 10 footer decides he wants them. Kicking or making a sudden movement towards them has almost always made them go away.

[fatsuki]

Originally posted by Inferno
How can you say we don't cause global warming? Are there other species building factories which pollute and also drive cars? We definately cause global warming, the question is whether it is at a rate that will cause any effect.
Is it a normal cycle that humans build more and more factories, and destroy more and more natural land to build these factories?

Kent E's point is that factories and cars don't necessarily cause global warming. Mass media really touts global warming, but delve deeper and you will find many scientists and scientific studies dispute the validity of global warming being caused by human actions.

[Inferno]

Global warming is caused by greenhouses gases such as methane gas and C02. These gases trap the heat in the atmosphere that would normally escape. I agree that the media blows things out of proportions but it is happening.
Our factories and cars release these gases. The amount of gases being released is increasing because of our actions. I guess I don't see how that is not from human actions. I would love to look deeper into it. I can find you countless peer-reviewd academic articles about global warming. Can you point out some academic sources that say human actions don't conrtibute to it? Most of the info i could find saying that it isn't was from the media.

[thereefgeek]

Think of it in geological terms. The planet has gone through several warming and cooling periods over the last gazillion years (don't quote me, I'm not a geologist). Anyone ever hear of the last ice age? Since then, the earth had been in midst of a "warming trend". I think the USGS (or is it NOAA) has only been tracking "global temperatures for the last 60 years or so, and in geological terms of millions of years it would be difficult to assign responsibility for a 3 degree rise in the earth's temperature to the internal combustion engine.

Check the high deserts of Nevada for fossilized marine organisms and it would stand to reason that at one time the ocean levels were much higher, and there were coral reefs present in locations hundreds of feet above current sea level. Were those reef's demise a direct result of human involvement? Highly unlikely.

When Mt. Saint Hellen erupted 25 years ago it was estimated that more "greenhouse gasses" and "pollution" were spewed from that one volcanic event than every fossil fuel burning vehicle and factory combined in the past 200 years of industrialized development.

I guess the point I'm trying to make is that the mass media knows full well that whatever they spoon feed the general viewing public will be consumed whole heartedly and we're supposed to ask for seconds. Don't believe everything you see on T.V., everything your teacher tells you to believe, or everything you read on the internet. Do your research and reach your own conclusion. Right or wrong, at least you will be able to say it's your own.

[speckled trout]

Many fossils of marine life are present around mountainous areas because of plate techtonics. Places that used to be below sealevel are pushed upwards as colliding plates collapse against each other. In other words, many areas of very high elevation used to be much lower before continental drift and seafloor spreading.

[thereefgeek]

map:
http://geology.swau.edu/paleocur/pznorth.html

legend:


http://gpc.edu/~pgore/geology/geo102/permian.htm

http://www.ucmp.berkeley.edu/paleozoic/paleozoic.html