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Old 08/01/2006, 03:05 PM   #26
Horace
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Quote:
Originally posted by beeker
horace in your picture it actually looks like the digi bleached since the color is sooooo much whitter than the brown/orange coloration it had before.

i had 200 ppm of nitrate in my 20 gallon for over a month before i was able to correct it. I lost no corals and saw no change in color having my nitrates that high or having them at 0 like they are now...polyp extension would be the only thing i noticed and i can contribute that to the cheato i added after i realized my nitrates were that high this probably took out most if not all the phosphate and nitrate...tank is a month older since this happend and i have no color change what so ever to any of the 5 frags that were in the tank before i fixed the issue they are all growing and PE has never been better.
The coral is not bleached my friend....my camera just sucks and shows whitish in the areas where the light is bright. The coral is a gourgous purple with blue polpys just like it is supposed to.

Im really not sure what your trying to say, because if your trying to argue that nitrates dont effect coral color then you are simply mistaken.

Also your not going to see a massive swing in color in a month necessarly just because you were able to lower your nutrients. There ARE other factors. Just because you didnt see a change in your colors means nothing because I can assure you that high nutrient levels will have an adverse effect on your SPS. Also I would like to note, just because a coral is growing and has good PE does not mean that it has its optimal colors. That coral above, as you can see has great PE, but its color was VERY poor. My limiting factor was not nutrients in my case but poor lighting. Once my lighting was corrected, the coral colored up quickly. Somtimes it takes several months for a coral to color up though, even in a perfect environment. Infact I have a large SPS colony that was brown in the LFS that I took in recently. It is very slowly turning purple, but it still has a ways to go and I have had this coral probably 2 months.

All I can tell you is to get your nutrient levels down to undetectable for awhile, keep everythign stable, have good lighting and good flow and in about 2-3 months come back and tell us how things look. I would be shocked if you didnt see any difference.


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Old 08/01/2006, 06:36 PM   #27
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Trust me that coral isn't bleached, I have a frag of it.


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Old 08/01/2006, 08:11 PM   #28
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Quote:
Also it is a misconception that a skimmer will remove nitrate/phosphates as well....they cant remove those chemicals directly, they simply remove the "crap" that will turn to nitrate/phosphate.
Good post! Well said!


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Old 08/01/2006, 08:26 PM   #29
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So how do you keep nutrients down?
refugium
good skimmer
and feed once every 2 days or more??

Is it still possible to keep nutrients down and feed everyday?
Im alittle confuse, some people say feeding heavily will bring corals out while here Im reading to keep nutrients down.


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Old 08/02/2006, 07:54 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeEe
Is it still possible to keep nutrients down and feed everyday?
Sure, I fed my fish twice a day.


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Old 08/02/2006, 08:39 AM   #31
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Quote:
Also it is a misconception that a skimmer will remove nitrate/phosphates as well....they cant remove those chemicals directly, they simply remove the "crap" that will turn to nitrate/phosphate.
Thats not true. It will remove the crap before it can turn into nitrate/phosphate.

It will also remove waterborne bacteria and phytoplankton, both of which will assimilate free nitrate/phosphate. So YES, it does remove nitrate and phosphate.


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Old 08/02/2006, 10:29 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally posted by JB NY
Sure, I fed my fish twice a day.
Did you feed just enough for all your fishes to consume the food and not let any fall to the ground or get lost in the rocks? Did you soak your food in water first and discard the water?

Im trying to understand how you can feed them twice a day and still keep nutrients down. Thanks


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Old 08/02/2006, 10:54 AM   #33
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I fed them one frozen cube of mysis with a pinch of pellet food in the morning. And two cubes (ocean plankton and prime reef) in the evening. I soaked the frozen food in tank water and discarded the water before feeding.

I fed them enough so that most of the food was eaten before it hit the ground but I would say that about 10-15% made it to the rocks and sand.

Also, that is all I fed the fish. I never gave them anything else. Total time for feeding start to end was probably about 30 seconds.

I skimmed my tank heavily, did weekly 13% water changes. Ran carbon and GFO, I also had LR and a DSB.


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Old 08/02/2006, 11:09 AM   #34
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Thanks Joe
Looks like my problem with algae has been from thawing the food in RO and dumping every last bit of the food along with the water into the tank.
Does anybody have this problem with the formula two cubes? When I thaw the food, it completely melts and doesnt keep its cube structure within minutes. I have gone through a lot of the frozen cubes before in the past and dont recall this same problem. Im thinking it is just a bad batch?


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Old 08/02/2006, 11:18 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally posted by MikeEe
Did you feed just enough for all your fishes to consume the food and not let any fall to the ground or get lost in the rocks? Did you soak your food in water first and discard the water?

Im trying to understand how you can feed them twice a day and still keep nutrients down. Thanks
Lots of flow, big skimmer.

I feed 4-5 times a day. Whenever I go by the tank (or my girlfriend does, etc) food goes in the tank.

Lots of food in, lots of waste out.


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Old 08/02/2006, 11:32 AM   #36
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i agree with rich; i think flow is the most important factor, more the better. obviously there is a limit, but most dont' even approach that. When seeing a video of clkwrk's tank with a wavebox, 2 x 6200, 3x 6100, all in a 180 i realized that I can take it much higher in my 180 (6200 and 2 x 6100). and most would probably say I have too much flow.


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Old 08/02/2006, 12:19 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally posted by RichConley
Thats not true. It will remove the crap before it can turn into nitrate/phosphate.

It will also remove waterborne bacteria and phytoplankton, both of which will assimilate free nitrate/phosphate. So YES, it does remove nitrate and phosphate.
I think your arguing semantics here....a skimmer cannot, and it seems you agree, skim phosphates/nitrates directly out of the water in the form of Nitrates/phosphates. Saying a skimmer can skim out bacteria that has taken up nitrate/phosphate is not really the same thing as saying a skimmer directly skims nitrate/phosphate.

Either way, a skimmer is vital to low nutrients IMO.


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Old 08/02/2006, 12:23 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally posted by twon8
i think flow is the most important factor, more the better.
While flow IS important, I dont agree its the most important. Water quality is WAY WAY ahead of flow and IMO lighting and flow are pretty equally important after that. Also how much flow you require is directly proportional to the size of your colonies. If you have big colonies, you need much more flow. Frags dont really need a heck of a lot of flow because the water more easily gets to all the branches, as opposed to a very large colony of acro where the water flow through the coral is significantly slowed in the center.


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Old 08/02/2006, 01:27 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally posted by Horace
While flow IS important, I dont agree its the most important. Water quality is WAY WAY ahead of flow and IMO lighting and flow are pretty equally important after that.
Right, but IMO, water quality and flow are the same thing. Without high flow, you can't keep things from settling, and theres no way to keep water quality good.


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Old 08/02/2006, 01:58 PM   #40
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Rich, it is possible to have good water quality without high flow. I think most people here in the SPS forum consider good water quality as being low in disolved organics, stable SNW levels of temp, alk, cal, mg, stron, ......., and low levels of bad things like nitrate, phosphate, ammonia, ........

You don't necessarily have to prevent things from settling to have good water parameters because there are other ways of exporting the bad things in the water even after they have broken down into proties, nitrate, and phosphate. It is usually easier to just export the detritus and protiens before they are broken down though. So essentially I still partially agree with your comment.


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Old 08/02/2006, 02:42 PM   #41
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Greg, I came off a little strong.

My point is, in most tanks with water quality (nutrient, not ca/alk/etc) issues, and increase in flow will help. It gets more stuff in the skimmer, and less stuff sitting back rotting in your rocks. IME, I was never able to get a tank to run clean without a good amount of flow. Just too much settling.


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Old 08/13/2006, 03:30 PM   #42
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Thats not true. It will remove the crap before it can turn into nitrate/phosphate.
I think what he is saying is a skimmer can not remove NO4 or PO4 ... correct?


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Old 08/13/2006, 03:46 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally posted by JB NY
I soaked the frozen food in tank water and discarded the water before feeding.

The best thing one can do . That alone will make a big difference IME


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Old 09/08/2006, 08:36 PM   #44
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I never thought of that, good idea!


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Old 09/08/2006, 08:55 PM   #45
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Quote:
Originally posted by Ti
po4 is one of the culprits
Yes much more so than nitrates. I've seen tanks with really colorful acros.....VERY VERY colorful acros, one evenwith a nitrate reading of 50ppm! Phosban in a reactor was being used in this system and the po4 was .03-.05ppm.

Shawnts106 your coralife skimmer sucks and the rating is not accurate. Get a real skimmer and you'll see the difference. You must understand that getting a larger skimmer that makes a poor concetration of bubbles will not help. You need better skimming or very low bioload with very little waste input. This might help you decide on the skimmer
http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/...er-thread.html


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Old 09/08/2006, 11:09 PM   #46
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i just recently bought my first two acro frags they were purple with green tips. After two months they turned brown. I was very disappointed. I assumed it was because of my high nitrates which for the life of me i cannot get below 20 ppm. I have 400w halides 20k about 20 in over tank. I feed the four fish 3 times a week and i feed dts four times. my parameters havent changed in months i keep a very rigid schedule of water changes etc.. I use a seaclone 100 a.k.a. piece o crap. But last week i changed from an open tank and placed the glass tops back on the tank and the frags began to change color now one is a yeloowish brown and the other is turning green both have continued to show growth the entire time. I think by changing the par or maybe reducing the amount of uv caused the changed because no other parameter changed.


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Old 09/08/2006, 11:12 PM   #47
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I am running between 10-20ppm of nitrate and .01 po4 . You don't wanna see my colors


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Old 09/09/2006, 12:48 AM   #48
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Id stop putting DT's in your tank..and get a better skimmer......


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Old 09/09/2006, 01:03 AM   #49
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Id stop putting DT's in your tank..and get a better skimmer......
Amen to that. And try reading/searching instead of trying to create "popular" threads


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Old 09/09/2006, 08:19 PM   #50
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Shawnts106 your coralife skimmer sucks and the rating is not accurate. Get a real skimmer and you'll see the difference. You must understand that getting a larger skimmer that makes a poor concetration of bubbles will not help. You need better skimming or very low bioload with very little waste input. This might help you decide on the skimmer
I dont own a coralife, this is at work, yes I know this.

Quote:
Amen to that. And try reading/searching instead of trying to create "popular" threads
I have no intentions of making this thread "popular"


This thread was designed basically for a person I know who needs a bit of help understanding the importance of, according to factory label, "overskimming" ( aka have a 100 gallon tank and put a skimmer Labeled for 120gallons or so on it being insufficent... did that make sence?)


The coralife needlewheels are good skimmer, mind you NOT THE BEST, but good none-the-less.

I have a 115 gallon Im setting up, its going to be a full blown SPS reef. With a single 400watt XM20K with 4 24inch VHO's on it

I was thinking that the CL SS model 220 (rated up to 220gallons) would be good on it? What do you guys think? Of course the 125gallon model isnt going to be near enough, am I correct.

Its set up as a SSB method, lots of LR RODI water is being used. and yes, Fish will be involved


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