New with questions

gillianandjoe · 08/19/2006, 05:57 PM

Hi, I am trying to convert my 55 gal FWLR tank into a reef tank, but I need to take out some of the inhabitants. My question is, who can stay, and who has to go. I am planning on starting slow, with soft corals, and maybe get into hard corals down the road. The tank currently has 1 porcupine puffer, 1 snowflake moray, 1 lunar wrasse, 1 yellow damsel, 1 neon velvet damsel, and a yellow tang. I am planning on setting up another tank, just wanted to hear some thoughts on who might be ok.

cmondo · 08/19/2006, 06:07 PM

I am positive that the 2 damsels and the tangs can stay, and pretty sure the moray can also, but just check with someone else on that.

So all that I think you need to remove is the puffer and the wrasse and you should be set.

Chris

gillianandjoe · 08/19/2006, 06:19 PM

Thanks Chris, I figured the puffer was a definate, is it just this wrasse that's bad, or pretty much all of them?

Gordonious · 08/19/2006, 07:15 PM

Snails, hermits, and other crabs are often at risk from wrasse. Some can be safe, but most of them I have seen for sail are usually risky.

Agreed as well the puffer does have to go.

If your wondering about reef compatible fish check out the "pocketexpert guide"s. Marine fish has a lot of different fish seen for sail and whether or not they are reef safe. The thing I like about it is they usually say why they are not safe as well and specifically what they go after. I can't just be told no, you gotta tell me why, lol.

dynagirl · 08/19/2006, 07:34 PM

I have a yellow wrasse in my reef that does not bother anything. I have heard of people keeping many different wrasses in reef tanks, six line, scotts fairy, red flasher etc. Check out some of the online places that sell fish and most will list whether or not a fish is reef safe.

Gordonious · 08/19/2006, 07:47 PM

Do you have any shrimp or crabs?

nanoreef16g · 08/19/2006, 10:30 PM

Lunare Wrasses and the smaller wrasses are two different stories though. Six-lines were "made" for reef tanks but they will still pick on ornamental shrimps. Fairy's and Red Flashers are smaller wrasses that fair well in reef aquariums. There are people that have kept the Thalassoma sp. of wrasses in reef tanks and have kept them fed well and had success. I am generalizing when I say they aren't a good idea and you may be one of the lucky few who can keep one and it will never touch a crustacean. If you want to keep the wrasse but also keep shrimp, get yourself and nice sized banded coral shrimp. The snowflake will consume ornamental shrimps and crabs and if you remove the other fish and the damsels "claim" the tank, you will have territory issues. The puffer would be like a starving man at a buffet if corals are put into the tank. But again, this is just my opinion and there are exceptions to the rule.

gillianandjoe · 08/20/2006, 02:34 PM

Thanks for the replies, I have a peppermint shrimp in a little tank, that hopefully will go into the larger tank, and there are a few hermits in there now, but I don't think as many as I started with. Is there any reason that the corraline algae would grow slower in a tank with fish than in a tank with no fish? I have a ten gallon tank with rock that's going wild, and the larger tank seems to not grow algae. The lighting is similar in both tanks, flourescent, atinic, and reef glow? bulbs. Thanks, again for your posts.

Joe

Gordonious · 08/20/2006, 03:25 PM

Calcium levels? What is the substrate in each tank? If one tank is deep and the other shallow then the light is a lot closer... Couple of possibilities would have to know more details.

kaptken · 08/20/2006, 03:36 PM

I believe higher nitrate levels can retard calcification and coraline growth. other factors are light , calcium, strontium and magnesium levels.

SerranidTerror · 08/20/2006, 03:37 PM

Corraline algae may be growing faster in the tank with no fish than the tank with fish because of phosphate levels. Have you measured the phosphate levels? I believe phosphate will prevent the capability of corraline algaes from utilizing calcium. So higher phosphate=lower "availability" of calcium. If i'm incorrect please correct me!

I'm sure KaptKen will at some point step in with a long post with many interesting links

SerranidTerror · 08/20/2006, 03:39 PM

Geez Ken posting the same time as me. Nitrates too. That'll do it as well. And retard is a good way of describing it

kaptken · 08/20/2006, 03:43 PM

Good point ST. I clean forgot about phosphates. even though i'm right now changing my GBFH in some tanks. What was I thinking? you are right, phostphates are a big inhibitor. more so than nitrates.

gillianandjoe · 08/20/2006, 05:19 PM

The small tank has a very shallow layer of aragonite, the other has small shells, about 1.5" deep. Please forgive me for this one, but can you test for phosphates? How do I lower them? Just water changes, or is there something more I should be doing?

kaptken · 08/20/2006, 09:00 PM

Yes! to all of the above G & J . Phosphates can be tested for,and lowered through a variety of ways. Simple test kits are in the LFS stores. Water changes with new saltwater made with RO water will lower them by dilution.(but cost you lots for salt), a refugium with macro algea will lower them by the plants absorbing the phosphates and nitrates(fertilizer) and growing under light,(the natural low cost method). or various absorbing filter media will chemically bind to take them out of the water,(also expensive but fast acting). things like POLY FILTERS(absorb lots of other nasties too), Phosphate absorbers like white beads of aluminum oxide(low capacity), or the best chemical absorber,GRANULATED BETA FERIC HYDROXIDE, (an altered form of iron rust). heres a link for a good deal on that right now. Phos Pure.
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113810

hope that helps
one hard hat to another

SerranidTerror · 08/20/2006, 09:45 PM

If you want to test for phosphate make sure you get a high quality test. I would suggest a salifert test kit. Little pricey, but you get what you pay for. I had 2 cheaper tests and they both gave me totally different readings. So be careful.

gillianandjoe · 08/21/2006, 07:05 PM

Thanks again for your posts. I will look into it a little more. My small tank has a red algae with broad leaves, and what looks like green grape? algae growing in it too, I have seen refugiums in magazines, would it be possible to use the ten gallon tank as a refugium for the 55 without drilling? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I really am new at this.

Gordonious · 08/21/2006, 07:48 PM

No such thing as a stupid question. If you don't ask and mess up on something maybe you can call yourself stupid.(but we all make mistakes) You could use the ten g with out drilling. Do you have a sump? If not and your thinking about a fuge you may be able to make a fuge in a sump. Check out this website if you want to learn about sumps. You will find that site useful for a couple of other things as well.
The other option you may consider is a hob fuge(hang on back). One way to do this is to convert the biggest aquaclear you can buy. Take a look around RC by searching you'll find lots of people have gone that route.

Tbor · 08/22/2006, 08:28 PM

Welcome to the forum, Joe. Hope you can make it up to a meeting at some point! FWIW, I've had a salifert phos kit that was also crap. It's quite difficult to test for, and I find it easier to just run phos-sorb or some equivalent if it's suspect. Just my two cents, but if I was setting up another tank anyway I would move out everything but the tang. Had enough personal experiences & heard too many stories with 'reef safe' fish that were destructive in their own way and a real PITA to pull out later on.
Cheers - Mary

gillianandjoe · 08/23/2006, 06:56 PM

What do you do to become a reef club member? Is anyone welcome at your meetings? I am in Dover, I've done most of my shopping at either Fish Bowl, or Pet Safari (in Lewes). But I am interested in getting some real advice on controlling my tank's chemistry, better set-ups, etc..

Gordonious · 08/23/2006, 07:29 PM

LOL Pet Safari. (sorry I know everyone that works there) Have you ever been to a real store and seen a good set up? You should take a day trip up to that pet place. Just remember to tell them to give you big bags if your purchase any live stock. But Tbor should be able to help you out the most with finding out about the club. I would say though that if your not a horribly slow typer you will get most of your advice online.

Tbor · 08/24/2006, 07:22 AM

Anyone is welcome at our meetings, there is $20 annual membership dues, but you don't have to join to attend the meeting. Info on times and location is available on our website: www.delreefclub.org
Pretty much everything we do is set up through this forum, so check back here for info on goings-on outside the meetings.
If you PM me with your email address I can add you to our club mailing list. Welcome Aboard!
-Mary

08/19/2006, 05:57 PM	#1
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	New with questions Hi, I am trying to convert my 55 gal FWLR tank into a reef tank, but I need to take out some of the inhabitants. My question is, who can stay, and who has to go. I am planning on starting slow, with soft corals, and maybe get into hard corals down the road. The tank currently has 1 porcupine puffer, 1 snowflake moray, 1 lunar wrasse, 1 yellow damsel, 1 neon velvet damsel, and a yellow tang. I am planning on setting up another tank, just wanted to hear some thoughts on who might be ok.

08/19/2006, 10:30 PM	#7
nanoreef16g Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: West Chester, PA/Newark, DE Posts: 1,294	Lunare Wrasses and the smaller wrasses are two different stories though. Six-lines were "made" for reef tanks but they will still pick on ornamental shrimps. Fairy's and Red Flashers are smaller wrasses that fair well in reef aquariums. There are people that have kept the Thalassoma sp. of wrasses in reef tanks and have kept them fed well and had success. I am generalizing when I say they aren't a good idea and you may be one of the lucky few who can keep one and it will never touch a crustacean. If you want to keep the wrasse but also keep shrimp, get yourself and nice sized banded coral shrimp. The snowflake will consume ornamental shrimps and crabs and if you remove the other fish and the damsels "claim" the tank, you will have territory issues. The puffer would be like a starving man at a buffet if corals are put into the tank. But again, this is just my opinion and there are exceptions to the rule. __________________ Here's to swimmin' with bow-legged women!

08/20/2006, 03:36 PM	#10
kaptken Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New castle, De. Posts: 1,419	I believe higher nitrate levels can retard calcification and coraline growth. other factors are light , calcium, strontium and magnesium levels. __________________ Bend To Fit...Paint To Match...Kick To Start. Current Tank Info: 75 reef and several smaller

08/20/2006, 03:43 PM	#13
kaptken Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New castle, De. Posts: 1,419	Good point ST. I clean forgot about phosphates. even though i'm right now changing my GBFH in some tanks. What was I thinking? you are right, phostphates are a big inhibitor. more so than nitrates. __________________ Bend To Fit...Paint To Match...Kick To Start. Current Tank Info: 75 reef and several smaller

08/20/2006, 09:00 PM	#15
kaptken Registered Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New castle, De. Posts: 1,419	Yes! to all of the above G & J . Phosphates can be tested for,and lowered through a variety of ways. Simple test kits are in the LFS stores. Water changes with new saltwater made with RO water will lower them by dilution.(but cost you lots for salt), a refugium with macro algea will lower them by the plants absorbing the phosphates and nitrates(fertilizer) and growing under light,(the natural low cost method). or various absorbing filter media will chemically bind to take them out of the water,(also expensive but fast acting). things like POLY FILTERS(absorb lots of other nasties too), Phosphate absorbers like white beads of aluminum oxide(low capacity), or the best chemical absorber,GRANULATED BETA FERIC HYDROXIDE, (an altered form of iron rust). heres a link for a good deal on that right now. Phos Pure. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Produc...&N=2004+113810 hope that helps one hard hat to another __________________ Bend To Fit...Paint To Match...Kick To Start. Current Tank Info: 75 reef and several smaller

08/19/2006, 06:07 PM	#2
cmondo Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: 08530 Posts: 611	I am positive that the 2 damsels and the tangs can stay, and pretty sure the moray can also, but just check with someone else on that. So all that I think you need to remove is the puffer and the wrasse and you should be set. Chris

08/19/2006, 06:19 PM	#3
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	Thanks Chris, I figured the puffer was a definate, is it just this wrasse that's bad, or pretty much all of them?

08/19/2006, 07:15 PM	#4
Gordonious Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newark DE Posts: 3,393	Snails, hermits, and other crabs are often at risk from wrasse. Some can be safe, but most of them I have seen for sail are usually risky. Agreed as well the puffer does have to go. If your wondering about reef compatible fish check out the "pocketexpert guide"s. Marine fish has a lot of different fish seen for sail and whether or not they are reef safe. The thing I like about it is they usually say why they are not safe as well and specifically what they go after. I can't just be told no, you gotta tell me why, lol.

08/19/2006, 07:34 PM	#5
dynagirl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Bridgeville DE Posts: 45	I have a yellow wrasse in my reef that does not bother anything. I have heard of people keeping many different wrasses in reef tanks, six line, scotts fairy, red flasher etc. Check out some of the online places that sell fish and most will list whether or not a fish is reef safe.

08/19/2006, 07:47 PM	#6
Gordonious Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newark DE Posts: 3,393	Do you have any shrimp or crabs?

08/20/2006, 02:34 PM	#8
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	Thanks for the replies, I have a peppermint shrimp in a little tank, that hopefully will go into the larger tank, and there are a few hermits in there now, but I don't think as many as I started with. Is there any reason that the corraline algae would grow slower in a tank with fish than in a tank with no fish? I have a ten gallon tank with rock that's going wild, and the larger tank seems to not grow algae. The lighting is similar in both tanks, flourescent, atinic, and reef glow? bulbs. Thanks, again for your posts. Joe

08/20/2006, 03:25 PM	#9
Gordonious Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newark DE Posts: 3,393	Calcium levels? What is the substrate in each tank? If one tank is deep and the other shallow then the light is a lot closer... Couple of possibilities would have to know more details.

08/20/2006, 03:37 PM	#11
SerranidTerror Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indian Trail, NC Posts: 144	Corraline algae may be growing faster in the tank with no fish than the tank with fish because of phosphate levels. Have you measured the phosphate levels? I believe phosphate will prevent the capability of corraline algaes from utilizing calcium. So higher phosphate=lower "availability" of calcium. If i'm incorrect please correct me! I'm sure KaptKen will at some point step in with a long post with many interesting links

08/20/2006, 03:39 PM	#12
SerranidTerror Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indian Trail, NC Posts: 144	Geez Ken posting the same time as me. Nitrates too. That'll do it as well. And retard is a good way of describing it

08/20/2006, 05:19 PM	#14
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	The small tank has a very shallow layer of aragonite, the other has small shells, about 1.5" deep. Please forgive me for this one, but can you test for phosphates? How do I lower them? Just water changes, or is there something more I should be doing?

08/20/2006, 09:45 PM	#16
SerranidTerror Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Indian Trail, NC Posts: 144	If you want to test for phosphate make sure you get a high quality test. I would suggest a salifert test kit. Little pricey, but you get what you pay for. I had 2 cheaper tests and they both gave me totally different readings. So be careful.

08/21/2006, 07:05 PM	#17
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	Thanks again for your posts. I will look into it a little more. My small tank has a red algae with broad leaves, and what looks like green grape? algae growing in it too, I have seen refugiums in magazines, would it be possible to use the ten gallon tank as a refugium for the 55 without drilling? Sorry if that's a stupid question, I really am new at this.

08/21/2006, 07:48 PM	#18
Gordonious Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newark DE Posts: 3,393	No such thing as a stupid question. If you don't ask and mess up on something maybe you can call yourself stupid.(but we all make mistakes) You could use the ten g with out drilling. Do you have a sump? If not and your thinking about a fuge you may be able to make a fuge in a sump. Check out this website if you want to learn about sumps. You will find that site useful for a couple of other things as well. The other option you may consider is a hob fuge(hang on back). One way to do this is to convert the biggest aquaclear you can buy. Take a look around RC by searching you'll find lots of people have gone that route.

08/22/2006, 08:28 PM	#19
Tbor Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Elkton, Maryland, USA Posts: 455	Welcome to the forum, Joe. Hope you can make it up to a meeting at some point! FWIW, I've had a salifert phos kit that was also crap. It's quite difficult to test for, and I find it easier to just run phos-sorb or some equivalent if it's suspect. Just my two cents, but if I was setting up another tank anyway I would move out everything but the tang. Had enough personal experiences & heard too many stories with 'reef safe' fish that were destructive in their own way and a real PITA to pull out later on. Cheers - Mary

08/23/2006, 06:56 PM	#20
gillianandjoe Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Dover, DE Posts: 242	What do you do to become a reef club member? Is anyone welcome at your meetings? I am in Dover, I've done most of my shopping at either Fish Bowl, or Pet Safari (in Lewes). But I am interested in getting some real advice on controlling my tank's chemistry, better set-ups, etc..

08/23/2006, 07:29 PM	#21
Gordonious Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Newark DE Posts: 3,393	LOL Pet Safari. (sorry I know everyone that works there) Have you ever been to a real store and seen a good set up? You should take a day trip up to that pet place. Just remember to tell them to give you big bags if your purchase any live stock. But Tbor should be able to help you out the most with finding out about the club. I would say though that if your not a horribly slow typer you will get most of your advice online.

08/24/2006, 07:22 AM	#22
Tbor Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Elkton, Maryland, USA Posts: 455	Anyone is welcome at our meetings, there is $20 annual membership dues, but you don't have to join to attend the meeting. Info on times and location is available on our website: www.delreefclub.org Pretty much everything we do is set up through this forum, so check back here for info on goings-on outside the meetings. If you PM me with your email address I can add you to our club mailing list. Welcome Aboard! -Mary