Very happy to return to 10K's!!!! - Page 2

Hef · 11/05/2006, 08:31 PM

Yea, I went Phoenix for a couple years also. Still have two unfired 250W in boxes. Saw a guys tank with 10K XM's and went and bought two of them. Love the brightness and the color. Been running 10k since April. Now I see a tank with 14k and think that color looks good.

Grass is always Greener if you know what I mean

dots · 11/06/2006, 01:16 AM

Using a bunch of supplementation for coloration in addition to 10ks for performance is still the best way to go rather than the all in one bulb scheme. Both the look and performance......

That is interesting that you went down in wattage....the trend still seems to be more is better....very interesting......

Do you think your PAR values are still about equal since most 14K are lower than a 10K......I would imagine 10K 150's may be around the same value or a little less that the 250 14Ks......

I upped from 150s not too long ago because I couldn't keep stuff on the bottom colored up,(only a 75g not a deep tank). After I went to the 250s everything became "easy" to keep and color up. After trying to deal with the 150s and still not a wide selection, probably wouldn't go back to them.

Very interested in your results over the next few weeks....if browning occurs and need to aquascape to maximize the intense regions or if you have to increase your photoperiod.(Had to do both myself)

Your described growth spurt is curious too.....it may suggest that color (k) may have more to do with growth than intensity (PAR), which is the key number as of late to intense growth rates

.......I realize that a 10K vs 14K in the same wattage, the 10K will produce better results.....but 10K in 150W vs 14K 250w Phoenix(a current favorite and known to have a decient PAR for the color).....that is interesting.......however that is the "real" reason I went to 250's I wanted a more blue color and couldn't afford the loss in PAR anymore with the 150's(using 14K Phoenix ironicaly)......keep us posted on your observations please.

dots · 11/06/2006, 01:32 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hef
Yea, I went Phoenix for a couple years also. Still have two unfired 250W in boxes. Saw a guys tank with 10K XM's and went and bought two of them. Love the brightness and the color. Been running 10k since April. Now I see a tank with 14k and think that color looks good.

Grass is always Greener if you know what I mean

Not too get off the subject, but the 14K Phoenix were too blue for me, the 10Ks are way too yellow......

I really enjoy the 14K Ushio coloration....have you used them?

foshizzle · 11/06/2006, 11:30 AM

My greens faded a lot after going back to 10k. You think the T5 supplement will be enough to maintain your greens?

benf · 11/06/2006, 12:23 PM

no mention from the previous posters, so thought i would ask again in case this thread got barried.

Are you saying the Elos bulb and the Aquaconnect are the same?
And are they 10k or 14.5...what are they listed as... So many bulbs have been mentioned in this thread that i am now unsure of what the Elos bulbs actually are and where to get info on them and purchase them.

Nuuze · 11/06/2006, 12:29 PM

They are 10K. I never used the Aquaconnect. The Elos bulbs look like an HQI with another layer of glass for UV protection. For more info and pics on the bulb check out the Elos USA forum.

Fliger · 11/06/2006, 12:35 PM

Hey sorry forgot this thread. I don't know if my greens will fade. I have lots of green stuff from LPS to SPS so I'll LYK. I think the T5's will really help!

Sactodots - I know the PAR is decreased but OTOH it reminds me to keep my water crystal clear and of course that helps PAR at depths. But I know the T5 is really helping. TheGrimReefer has had some recent threads showing the HUGE diff in PAR of T5 when you cool your tubes. There are some incredible T5 tanks out there and most of the European ones I've seen air cool their tubes. That was probably the biggest deciding factor in getting the Elos Planet II.

Here are my experiences and thoughts of these bulbs -

Yeah IMO the Phoenix 250W DE bulb is the AC 250W DE bulb but all other Aquaconnect moguls are made in Germany and different. The DE and SE really don't look much alike - I think the DE is much closer to 20K. It actually doesn't even measure on Sanjay's results. The SE's are much cooler white/blue.

The Elos 10K bulb is totally different. It is a very white bulb. It looks similar to the Giesemann 14.5K bulb. Very white, just a touch of blue.

The Ushio/BLV bulb can look a little yellowish with no actinics off HQI ballasts.

Most of the K ratings are purely marketing. Phoenix/AC say 14K but they're VERY blue and Giesemann/Ushio/BLV say 14 or 14.5K and they're VERY white.

But I'm SUPER happy with the lighting combo. I won't replace this fixture unless I replace my tank for a taller one.

benf · 11/06/2006, 12:38 PM

thanks for the reply...

Anyone seen the difference between the Elos and Ushio 250w 10k?? Does the Elos have less yellow? Not sure if it matters, but will be on icecap ballast.

Fliger · 11/06/2006, 12:41 PM

ThAT Ushio is WWWAAAYYY more yellow. If you want a whiter bulb I would recommend the Ushio 14K but to MY eye its still a little too yellow - however I was using HQI ballasts. If you want a want an almost pure white and maybe just the slightest bit of blue I'd recommend the Elos 10K or the Giesemann 14.5K Coral. They're both expensive but I only replace them once a year so it's worth it IMO.

benf · 11/06/2006, 12:52 PM

thanks for the reply...that is the info i was looking for...you were probably replying when i did..

Do u recall how much u paid for your Elos bulbs? I guess they have to be bought direct?

thanks again!!

MiddletonMark · 11/06/2006, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Fliger
If you want a whiter bulb I would recommend the Ushio 14K but to MY eye its still a little too yellow - however I was using HQI ballasts.

I've got one on a 175w electronic ballast, great color even without suppliment [got in on my basement coral tub].

The longer in I'm in the hobby, the longer I think some is finding a quality bulb, and some is finding one that your ballast will run well. I've ended up with a 250w electronic and HQI ballast just so that if I buy a bulb ... one of the ballast will make it look nice

jrsp12 · 12/01/2006, 01:35 PM

Just curious.. who carries the Elos Planet II in the US? Have had a hard time finding any dealers.

benf · 12/01/2006, 01:49 PM

I thought you have to order the Elos from Elosusa...Elos are not cheap bulbs

Nuuze · 12/01/2006, 02:52 PM

Talk to Jesse on the Elos sponsor forum.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...hp?forumid=399

dippin61 · 12/01/2006, 03:06 PM

hey fliger.. any pics of the new bulb compared to the old bulb.. doesnt look like you got around to posting any pics.

SunnyX · 12/01/2006, 05:00 PM

I have a couple of older pics that may help you guys see the difference between XM10k and XM20K. The 10K is 250W, while the 20K is 400W. All run in Lumenarc III reflectors.

Fliger · 12/01/2006, 05:25 PM

You expect me to post pictures following Sunny?

I don't have B&A pix but I have some decent pix. I've been traveling a bunch lately but I'll try to get em downloaded this wkd. I'm still super happy with the 10K + T5 combo. My colors get better all the time and even though I halved my watts (1000 to 500), my growth has actually increased. My LPS are much happier!

dippin61 · 12/01/2006, 05:57 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by SunnyX
I have a couple of older pics that may help you guys see the difference between XM10k and XM20K. The 10K is 250W, while the 20K is 400W. All run in Lumenarc III reflectors.

/droooooooollll

that color is perfect.. i just wish i could obtain it with my setup.. back before i knew better, i bought a 250w PFO mag ballast. worse lighting mistake i could of ever made.

Nuuze · 12/01/2006, 06:10 PM

Nice SunnyX!

ycnibrc · 12/01/2006, 07:05 PM

i'm going to switch from 400 15k xm to 400 10k xm and I have a question is there a problem with coral bleaching when you go to the 10k. I'm also upgrade from spider reflector to luminarc mini

Thanks
Anthony

Kip · 12/01/2006, 07:53 PM

to be safe i'd light acclimate by using layers of window screen over the tank and removing a layer every coupla days.... remove faster if corals darken and remove slower if corals lighten

cagri · 12/01/2006, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dippin61
/droooooooollll

that color is perfect.. i just wish i could obtain it with my setup.. back before i knew better, i bought a 250w PFO mag ballast. worse lighting mistake i could of ever made.

I believe sunny is running his on magnetic ballast just like PFOs. Why do you say PFO mag ballasts are bad? Just curious?

Unarce · 12/01/2006, 08:21 PM

Quote:

by Fliger
The Ushio/BLV bulb can look a little yellowish with no actinics off HQI ballasts.

I do love the 14K 400W version of this bulb. This is an older pic, after exactly 150 hours on a PFO HQI ballast.

Pure white (maybe a hint of blue) with a PPFD of 214 and CRI of 70. My eyes no longer play tricks on me

dippin61 · 12/01/2006, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cagri
I believe sunny is running his on magnetic ballast just like PFOs. Why do you say PFO mag ballasts are bad? Just curious?

from personal experience, and all of sanjays results, PFO mag ballasts put out some of the worst par and ppfd

Big E · 12/02/2006, 05:52 AM

Quote:

from personal experience, and all of sanjays results, PFO mag ballasts put out some of the worst par and ppfd

With 400w XM20k they are at the top of the list for par.

11/06/2006, 01:16 AM	#27
dots Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 6,251	Using a bunch of supplementation for coloration in addition to 10ks for performance is still the best way to go rather than the all in one bulb scheme. Both the look and performance...... That is interesting that you went down in wattage....the trend still seems to be more is better....very interesting...... Do you think your PAR values are still about equal since most 14K are lower than a 10K......I would imagine 10K 150's may be around the same value or a little less that the 250 14Ks...... I upped from 150s not too long ago because I couldn't keep stuff on the bottom colored up,(only a 75g not a deep tank). After I went to the 250s everything became "easy" to keep and color up. After trying to deal with the 150s and still not a wide selection, probably wouldn't go back to them. Very interested in your results over the next few weeks....if browning occurs and need to aquascape to maximize the intense regions or if you have to increase your photoperiod.(Had to do both myself) Your described growth spurt is curious too.....it may suggest that color (k) may have more to do with growth than intensity (PAR), which is the key number as of late to intense growth rates .......I realize that a 10K vs 14K in the same wattage, the 10K will produce better results.....but 10K in 150W vs 14K 250w Phoenix(a current favorite and known to have a decient PAR for the color).....that is interesting.......however that is the "real" reason I went to 250's I wanted a more blue color and couldn't afford the loss in PAR anymore with the 150's(using 14K Phoenix ironicaly)......keep us posted on your observations please. __________________ ~Doug Last edited by dots; 11/06/2006 at 01:30 AM.

11/06/2006, 12:23 PM	#30
benf Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: wesley chapel, florida Posts: 4,106	no mention from the previous posters, so thought i would ask again in case this thread got barried. Are you saying the Elos bulb and the Aquaconnect are the same? And are they 10k or 14.5...what are they listed as... So many bulbs have been mentioned in this thread that i am now unsure of what the Elos bulbs actually are and where to get info on them and purchase them. __________________ Ben Current Tank Info: None :(

11/06/2006, 12:35 PM	#32
Fliger Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 9,532	Hey sorry forgot this thread. I don't know if my greens will fade. I have lots of green stuff from LPS to SPS so I'll LYK. I think the T5's will really help! Sactodots - I know the PAR is decreased but OTOH it reminds me to keep my water crystal clear and of course that helps PAR at depths. But I know the T5 is really helping. TheGrimReefer has had some recent threads showing the HUGE diff in PAR of T5 when you cool your tubes. There are some incredible T5 tanks out there and most of the European ones I've seen air cool their tubes. That was probably the biggest deciding factor in getting the Elos Planet II. Here are my experiences and thoughts of these bulbs - Yeah IMO the Phoenix 250W DE bulb is the AC 250W DE bulb but all other Aquaconnect moguls are made in Germany and different. The DE and SE really don't look much alike - I think the DE is much closer to 20K. It actually doesn't even measure on Sanjay's results. The SE's are much cooler white/blue. The Elos 10K bulb is totally different. It is a very white bulb. It looks similar to the Giesemann 14.5K bulb. Very white, just a touch of blue. The Ushio/BLV bulb can look a little yellowish with no actinics off HQI ballasts. Most of the K ratings are purely marketing. Phoenix/AC say 14K but they're VERY blue and Giesemann/Ushio/BLV say 14 or 14.5K and they're VERY white. But I'm SUPER happy with the lighting combo. I won't replace this fixture unless I replace my tank for a taller one. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

11/06/2006, 12:38 PM	#33
benf Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: wesley chapel, florida Posts: 4,106	thanks for the reply... Anyone seen the difference between the Elos and Ushio 250w 10k?? Does the Elos have less yellow? Not sure if it matters, but will be on icecap ballast. __________________ Ben Current Tank Info: None :(

11/06/2006, 12:41 PM	#34
Fliger Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 9,532	ThAT Ushio is WWWAAAYYY more yellow. If you want a whiter bulb I would recommend the Ushio 14K but to MY eye its still a little too yellow - however I was using HQI ballasts. If you want a want an almost pure white and maybe just the slightest bit of blue I'd recommend the Elos 10K or the Giesemann 14.5K Coral. They're both expensive but I only replace them once a year so it's worth it IMO. __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

11/05/2006, 08:31 PM	#26
Hef Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: Fair Haven NJ Posts: 2,308	Yea, I went Phoenix for a couple years also. Still have two unfired 250W in boxes. Saw a guys tank with 10K XM's and went and bought two of them. Love the brightness and the color. Been running 10k since April. Now I see a tank with 14k and think that color looks good. Grass is always Greener if you know what I mean

11/06/2006, 11:30 AM	#29
foshizzle Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 474	My greens faded a lot after going back to 10k. You think the T5 supplement will be enough to maintain your greens?

11/06/2006, 12:29 PM	#31
Nuuze Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fairfield, California Posts: 4,131	They are 10K. I never used the Aquaconnect. The Elos bulbs look like an HQI with another layer of glass for UV protection. For more info and pics on the bulb check out the Elos USA forum.

11/06/2006, 12:52 PM	#35
benf Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: wesley chapel, florida Posts: 4,106	thanks for the reply...that is the info i was looking for...you were probably replying when i did.. Do u recall how much u paid for your Elos bulbs? I guess they have to be bought direct? thanks again!! __________________ Ben Current Tank Info: None :(

12/01/2006, 01:35 PM	#37
jrsp12 Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Deerfield IL Posts: 9	Just curious.. who carries the Elos Planet II in the US? Have had a hard time finding any dealers.

12/01/2006, 01:49 PM	#38
benf Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: wesley chapel, florida Posts: 4,106	I thought you have to order the Elos from Elosusa...Elos are not cheap bulbs __________________ Ben Current Tank Info: None :(

12/01/2006, 02:52 PM	#39
Nuuze Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fairfield, California Posts: 4,131	Talk to Jesse on the Elos sponsor forum. http://reefcentral.com/forums/forumd...hp?forumid=399

12/01/2006, 03:06 PM	#40
dippin61 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Oregon Posts: 1,897	hey fliger.. any pics of the new bulb compared to the old bulb.. doesnt look like you got around to posting any pics. __________________ Reefers Law: It can take about 48 hours to brown, and 48 weeks to color back up! Current Tank Info: 55 Gallon BB Low Iron Glass, Dual 110w VHO Actinics, 250w PFO MH 20k XM

12/01/2006, 05:00 PM	#41
SunnyX Moved On Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Michigan Posts: 5,133	I have a couple of older pics that may help you guys see the difference between XM10k and XM20K. The 10K is 250W, while the 20K is 400W. All run in Lumenarc III reflectors.

12/01/2006, 05:25 PM	#42
Fliger Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Chandler, AZ Posts: 9,532	You expect me to post pictures following Sunny? I don't have B&A pix but I have some decent pix. I've been traveling a bunch lately but I'll try to get em downloaded this wkd. I'm still super happy with the 10K + T5 combo. My colors get better all the time and even though I halved my watts (1000 to 500), my growth has actually increased. My LPS are much happier! __________________ Growing old is mandatory, growing up is optional. Closed minds should come with closed mouths. When life hands you lemons, add vodka! Current Tank Info: Current: 210G Elos System, 2x400W + 6x54W Photon w/Aquaconnects, H&S skimmer, Deltec FR509/ROWAphos+Elos Carbon, 6101's and 6201's, Ocean GEOtronic 900 Chiller/Heater, Biotopus II Controller w/SMS. Elos System 70.

12/01/2006, 06:10 PM	#44
Nuuze Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Fairfield, California Posts: 4,131	Nice SunnyX!

12/01/2006, 07:05 PM	#45
ycnibrc Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Huntington Beach, California Posts: 1,455	i'm going to switch from 400 15k xm to 400 10k xm and I have a question is there a problem with coral bleaching when you go to the 10k. I'm also upgrade from spider reflector to luminarc mini Thanks Anthony __________________ Anthony I will trade my golf swing for your tyree frag. Current Tank Info: 265 leemar starphire sps dominant,2 H&S skimmer,Procal,MRC kalk,zeovit reactor,3x400watt reeflux 12k,3x80watt T5 actinic,1/3 chiller,2X6000,2X6100 7095 controller,Super mod wavebox,CL with Baracuda,Dart return pump

12/01/2006, 07:53 PM	#46
Kip Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Dropping 2, hitting 3 Posts: 2,522	to be safe i'd light acclimate by using layers of window screen over the tank and removing a layer every coupla days.... remove faster if corals darken and remove slower if corals lighten __________________ Sept'06 TOTM Taking a break from the hobby while we move to a new house.