Reef Ceramics

jerryz · 12/12/2006, 11:14 PM

What has been your experience with Reef Ceramics instead of LR? I'm in the process of setting up a new tank and was at least giving it some passing thought.

mr.wilson · 12/15/2006, 02:56 AM

I use a modified shotcrete on aquarium walls and over internal plumbing, but DIY, ceramic, or dead base rock make the cycling process take an extra 6 months, and never looks the same as true live rock.

You never have the same coraline growth or biodiversity with faux or dead rock. If your on a budget, you can mix and match, or add slowly as you go. There are also a few tricks you can use to make the rock go farther. You only need 1 pound per gallon.

The same is true of live rock that has been sitting in a warehouse on a skid, or in the back of a truck for weeks. Pay the extra money and get fresh live rock.

jerryz · 12/15/2006, 08:13 AM

It just seems like I have never gotten LR that didn't carry some aptasia. And I hate aptasia. I've never had great luck completely eradicating it. So I was thinking with Fake rock I could control what actually ended up in the tank and thus avoid aptasia.

cchoffman · 12/15/2006, 11:45 AM

I used both live and dead rock, and I challenge anyone to tell the difference between them now. If you are getting all your live rock from one place, you might as well only buy one piece and let it seed your dead rock. There is probably no way to completely avoid aptasia.

rekn · 12/15/2006, 12:23 PM

so you challenge us with no pic....smooth.

rxx2 · 12/15/2006, 01:59 PM

Here's a few pics of the Reef Ceramics. It's been about 8 months since I set up the tank. I used some live rock to fill in the front. I've heard some people say they leach phosphate, get bad algae blooms and they'll soak them for months. I cut them to size, soaked them for about 3 days and stuck them in the tank. I didn't measure PO4-- and didn't see that bad of an algae problem. I did get aptasia from the live rock I used.

GreshamH · 12/15/2006, 02:06 PM

I've seen his tank in person, and I was really impressed with the Reed Ceramics. I'm a sucker for reef backs though

Konadog · 12/15/2006, 03:43 PM

I have a set of wall plates on 1/2 of my 225g tank and love them. Very sterile looking for the first few months. Once things start growing on them, you can't tell the difference. There are some German tanks that all they have are ceramics, I don't think it's a problem at all!

mr.wilson · 12/15/2006, 06:47 PM

Hitchhikers are more likely to come from coral additions than live rock, as distribution and better shipping conditions guarantee more biodiversity.

The shotcrete installations I've done become covered in coraline algae in about six months, but just one type. Live rock will have at least three colours of coraline as well as countless other varieties of microfauna (probiotics). Reef ceramics are comparable to dead rock, but without the buffering capacity. Did you have a lot of diatom issues for the first few months?

Your tank looks great, but it takes longer to get there, and there are no pleasant surprises. On the positive side, there are no unpleasant surprises, other than cyanobacteria, dinoflagellates, and diatoms.

Konadog · 12/15/2006, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.wilson
Did you have a lot of diatom issues for the first few months?

I had heard about this ahead of time and soaked them in a drum of RO/DI water for a few months with a power head for circulation and weekly water changes. Didn't have a problem at all. I agree on them being equal to dead rock, that is why I mentioned the sterile look for a few months.

mr.wilson · 12/16/2006, 03:15 PM

Before you spend a lot of money on ceramic products, you might want to explore the idea of using shotcrete. There are lots of DIY recipes and procedures here on RC.

Here are some pictures of two end panels I recently covered on a 450. Shotcrete gives you more flexibility than prefab products. I was able to hide 2" PVC intake plumbing and avoid drilling more holes in the glass.

rekn · 12/16/2006, 06:49 PM

i did a search and couldnt find any diy recipes for shotcrete

Double-J · 12/16/2006, 07:01 PM

I just set up this tank a couple weeks ago using all reef ceramics with about a 100lbs of liverock in the sump to seed it a little. Granted they are still very white but with time they will be covered in coroline. I'm going thru a little diatom bloom but I'm hoping it will be done in a month or so. After using this stuff I won't use LR ever again, The amount of places to keep corals in the walls is unbelievable.

Double-J · 12/16/2006, 07:05 PM

mr wilson- Your back wall is AWESOME. If you could make more pockets on the rocks to hold the corals that would be sweet. I suppose you could always glue frags to it. Very natural looking though

mr.wilson · 12/16/2006, 08:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tinytool
mr wilson- Your back wall is AWESOME. If you could make more pockets on the rocks to hold the corals that would be sweet. I suppose you could always glue frags to it. Very natural looking though

Even if you stick with ceramic prefab panels, shotcrete is a useful tool to join the seams.

I use a polymer modified, quick-setting concrete product by Quikrete, called "Quikwall". King cement products makes a similar one called "Plugtite", and Thora makes one called "Thorite". It's certified for use in wells and cisterns, so it's safe for aquarium use. It sets up in 2-5 minutes so you have to work fast and do small areas at a time. It cures rapidly, so there's no significant PH shift.

You can make larger "shelves" for corals if you do a second coat. I use lag bolts to make faux fossils and a machine screw to make holes for attaching corals. You can have pressure fit plug and play coral anchors with 1/8" acrylic rods, or you can imbed plastic nuts in the cement and affix a corresponding bolt to the coral. Once you get a feel for it, you can let your imagination take over.

I use a 50/50 mix of crushed oyster shell and cement mix. The oyster shell gives it more texture and strength, with less shrinkage/cracking. I find that aragonite isn't cost effective and gives a speckled white look. Oyster shell is nice medium grey. You can pick up crushed oyster shell cheap from a farm supply store as a calcium supplement for birds.

Here's a link. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=2

Here's a full tank shot of the tank in the previous post.

This is a 600 gallon tank I recently completed. I use the shotcrete mix to bond live rock together as well. I get diatoms on the wall for about 6 weeks.

rekn · 12/16/2006, 09:56 PM

holy **** wilson, your tank is awesome

rekn · 12/19/2006, 10:00 PM

where can you get the ceramics, and wheres the recipe for diy

mr.wilson · 12/20/2006, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by rekn
where can you get the ceramics, and wheres the recipe for diy

Unless your signing up for a local pottery class, there is no DIY ceramics.

http://www.captiveoceans.com/mm5/mer...=Korallen-Welt

rekn · 12/20/2006, 01:37 PM

whats the shotcrete recipe?

mr.wilson · 12/20/2006, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by rekn
whats the shotcrete recipe?

It's in my previous post.

rekn · 12/20/2006, 09:39 PM

i dont see it

mr.wilson · 12/21/2006, 06:20 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr.wilson
I use a polymer modified, quick-setting concrete product by Quikrete, called "Quikwall". King cement products makes a similar one called "Plugtite", and Thora makes one called "Thorite". It's certified for use in wells and cisterns, so it's safe for aquarium use. It sets up in 2-5 minutes so you have to work fast and do small areas at a time. It cures rapidly, so there's no significant PH shift.

You can make larger "shelves" for corals if you do a second coat. I use lag bolts to make faux fossils and a machine screw to make holes for attaching corals. You can have pressure fit plug and play coral anchors with 1/8" acrylic rods, or you can imbed plastic nuts in the cement and affix a corresponding bolt to the coral. Once you get a feel for it, you can let your imagination take over.

I use a 50/50 mix of crushed oyster shell and cement mix. The oyster shell gives it more texture and strength, with less shrinkage/cracking. I find that aragonite isn't cost effective and gives a speckled white look. Oyster shell is nice medium grey. You can pick up crushed oyster shell cheap from a farm supply store as a calcium supplement for birds.

Pick up a quick drying pre-mix and add an equal amount of oyster shell. If you need it to be more sticky, add less shell. Apply it it small batches by hand with rubber gloves. You can do thick areas in one coat. Add water to the consistency of mashed potatoes. This will give you a few more minutes to work with, and the right malleability. Spray the finished product with a weak acid to etch it to stabilize and seal.

Concrete bonding agents are white glue based. As such, they are water soluble, and will dissolve when you fill the tank. You may have better luck with yellow carpenters glue, but I find the step unnecessary.

You can achieve the same results with a 50/50 portland & shell mix, but it's a lot more work to stabilize and cure. Polymer modified mixes can be filled in 24 hours. You may have some mild calcium precipitate, but nothing toxic.

I use lag bolts to make faux fossils and machine screws to make worm holes and coral plug bases. You could also bond plastic nuts within the concrete, and affix a corresponding plastic screw to corals.

The colour matches that of live rock, so there's no need for tinting the mix, but such dyes are available for building supply stores. If you're really ambitious, you can paint the surface to look like coraline algae with epoxy or two-step polyurethane paint. I don't bother as coraline grows in about six months.

Let me know if you have any other questions.

TandN · 12/21/2006, 09:11 AM

I wish I saw this a month ago before I did the great stuff background

mr.wilson · 12/21/2006, 09:18 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tanya72806
I wish I saw this a month ago before I did the great stuff background

Great Stuff, makes a great base for shotcrete. It allows you to build the shelf-like projections that Reef Ceramics feature. If you're tank is running now, I guess it's too late.

staticx · 12/25/2006, 10:55 PM

I would never pay that kind of money for reef ceramics. you can make your own for dirt cheap. Not excactly the same but still nice.

12/12/2006, 11:14 PM	#1
jerryz Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 953	Reef Ceramics What has been your experience with Reef Ceramics instead of LR? I'm in the process of setting up a new tank and was at least giving it some passing thought.

12/15/2006, 08:13 AM	#3
jerryz Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Phoenix Posts: 953	It just seems like I have never gotten LR that didn't carry some aptasia. And I hate aptasia. I've never had great luck completely eradicating it. So I was thinking with Fake rock I could control what actually ended up in the tank and thus avoid aptasia. __________________ When in doubt ride a bike. Current Tank Info: 75 Gal Freshwater Discus Tank, 20G Nano, 125 Reef

12/15/2006, 02:06 PM	#7
GreshamH Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: SF Bay Area, CA Posts: 9,474	I've seen his tank in person, and I was really impressed with the Reed Ceramics. I'm a sucker for reef backs though __________________ Gresham _______________________________ Feeding your reef...one polyp at a time

12/15/2006, 03:43 PM	#8
Konadog Master of the 16 hour day Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: East Long Beach, So Cal Posts: 13,151 Blog Entries: 4	I have a set of wall plates on 1/2 of my 225g tank and love them. Very sterile looking for the first few months. Once things start growing on them, you can't tell the difference. There are some German tanks that all they have are ceramics, I don't think it's a problem at all! __________________ Save the Reefs................................................................Save the world! -Ken Current Tank Info: Currently tankless, and loving it!

12/15/2006, 02:56 AM	#2
mr.wilson RC Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,803	I use a modified shotcrete on aquarium walls and over internal plumbing, but DIY, ceramic, or dead base rock make the cycling process take an extra 6 months, and never looks the same as true live rock. You never have the same coraline growth or biodiversity with faux or dead rock. If your on a budget, you can mix and match, or add slowly as you go. There are also a few tricks you can use to make the rock go farther. You only need 1 pound per gallon. The same is true of live rock that has been sitting in a warehouse on a skid, or in the back of a truck for weeks. Pay the extra money and get fresh live rock.

12/15/2006, 11:45 AM	#4
cchoffman Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Grand Rapids, MI Posts: 119	I used both live and dead rock, and I challenge anyone to tell the difference between them now. If you are getting all your live rock from one place, you might as well only buy one piece and let it seed your dead rock. There is probably no way to completely avoid aptasia.

12/15/2006, 12:23 PM	#5
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	so you challenge us with no pic....smooth.

12/15/2006, 01:59 PM	#6
rxx2 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: San Mateo, CA Posts: 1,092	Here's a few pics of the Reef Ceramics. It's been about 8 months since I set up the tank. I used some live rock to fill in the front. I've heard some people say they leach phosphate, get bad algae blooms and they'll soak them for months. I cut them to size, soaked them for about 3 days and stuck them in the tank. I didn't measure PO4-- and didn't see that bad of an algae problem. I did get aptasia from the live rock I used.

12/15/2006, 06:47 PM	#9
mr.wilson RC Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,803	Hitchhikers are more likely to come from coral additions than live rock, as distribution and better shipping conditions guarantee more biodiversity. The shotcrete installations I've done become covered in coraline algae in about six months, but just one type. Live rock will have at least three colours of coraline as well as countless other varieties of microfauna (probiotics). Reef ceramics are comparable to dead rock, but without the buffering capacity. Did you have a lot of diatom issues for the first few months? Your tank looks great, but it takes longer to get there, and there are no pleasant surprises. On the positive side, there are no unpleasant surprises, other than cyanobacteria, dinoflagellates, and diatoms.

12/16/2006, 03:15 PM	#11
mr.wilson RC Sponsor Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Toronto, Canada Posts: 2,803	Before you spend a lot of money on ceramic products, you might want to explore the idea of using shotcrete. There are lots of DIY recipes and procedures here on RC. Here are some pictures of two end panels I recently covered on a 450. Shotcrete gives you more flexibility than prefab products. I was able to hide 2" PVC intake plumbing and avoid drilling more holes in the glass.

12/16/2006, 06:49 PM	#12
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	i did a search and couldnt find any diy recipes for shotcrete

12/16/2006, 07:01 PM	#13
Double-J Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: IA Posts: 1,061	I just set up this tank a couple weeks ago using all reef ceramics with about a 100lbs of liverock in the sump to seed it a little. Granted they are still very white but with time they will be covered in coroline. I'm going thru a little diatom bloom but I'm hoping it will be done in a month or so. After using this stuff I won't use LR ever again, The amount of places to keep corals in the walls is unbelievable.

12/16/2006, 07:05 PM	#14
Double-J Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: IA Posts: 1,061	mr wilson- Your back wall is AWESOME. If you could make more pockets on the rocks to hold the corals that would be sweet. I suppose you could always glue frags to it. Very natural looking though

12/16/2006, 09:56 PM	#16
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	holy **** wilson, your tank is awesome

12/19/2006, 10:00 PM	#17
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	where can you get the ceramics, and wheres the recipe for diy

12/20/2006, 01:37 PM	#19
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	whats the shotcrete recipe?

12/20/2006, 09:39 PM	#21
rekn Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: colorado springs,co Posts: 909	i dont see it

12/21/2006, 09:11 AM	#23
TandN Registered Member. Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: NYC Posts: 2,009	I wish I saw this a month ago before I did the great stuff background

12/25/2006, 10:55 PM	#25
staticx Moved On Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: oregon Posts: 825	I would never pay that kind of money for reef ceramics. you can make your own for dirt cheap. Not excactly the same but still nice.