SHADY--MarineGardens.com

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 05:05 PM

Wow. I have never had this kind of an experience in my 10 years in the hobby, and I feel like I should let other people that might be contemplating buying from this business know about it.

I received a spikefin goby DOA from www.marinesgardens.com on Wednesday. This was unfortunate, but it of course happens in the MO industry. When I contacted Marine Gardens about the LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE later that day, I was told that a live arrival guarantee did not apply to this fish due to its price.

That seemed very odd, since many other expensive fish on the site (such as the CANDY BASSLET) have no such disclaimer.

I really did not remember seeing that kind of disclaimer on the goby when I ordered it...was my memory slipping? Surely I would have checked thoroughly to ensure that a $130 fish was guaranteed? Sure enough though, their website said that the SPIKEFIN GOBY was not guaranteed.

Unfortunately, it looks like they changed the website to add the disclaimer after I contacted them about the mort. If you look up google's cache of the page HERE you can see that there is no such disclaimer. I've saved copies of all of these pages on my HD in case they change them again.

I disputed the charge with my CC company so it looks like I'll be getting all the money back. Still, the whole experience leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. If a guarantee is promised, a guarantee should be upheld, and I shouldn't need to play detective to figure out I've been baited and switched. I will certainly never buy anything from there again.

Matt

The page when I bought the goby:

The page after I contacted them about the DOA:

Reefugee · 03/02/2009, 05:11 PM

Thanks Matt. You should share your experience on the Vendor Experiences forum. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...p?s=&forumid=8

Kaiden · 03/02/2009, 05:15 PM

Thanks Matt...

That is plain WRONG! On the bright side, you caught them because you are computer literate. Good Job!!! I do this type of detective work daily at work... it's sometimes fun to catch people trying to pull fast ones..

funman1 · 03/02/2009, 06:11 PM

Nice job catching them..
I have used Google Cache more than once to check out things like that.

Nice catch!
Lets see them dispute that one!

I won't be making ANY purchases from them now!!

fishwood · 03/02/2009, 06:24 PM

Did you tell them about the cached page? I'm curious about how they would respond to that.

This sort of unethical practice really irks me. You should start one of those online petitions of people vowing not to buy from them, showing what they did. Then post it on RC and the nano site, and when it gets sufficiently long, forward it to them with a politely worded question of whether or not the $130 saved was worth the negativity.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 06:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Reefugee
Thanks Matt. You should share your experience on the Vendor Experiences forum. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...p?s=&forumid=8

Thanks Minh...so many forums here I didn't even realize it existed.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 06:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by fishwood
Did you tell them about the cached page? I'm curious about how they would respond to that.

This sort of unethical practice really irks me. You should start one of those online petitions of people vowing not to buy from them, showing what they did. Then post it on RC and the nano site, and when it gets sufficiently long, forward it to them with a politely worded question of whether or not the $130 saved was worth the negativity.

When I told them about the cached page they offered a full refund. By that point I had already contacted the CC company and gotten it myself.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 06:32 PM

Here is the correct link to the cached page:

http://209.85.173.132/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

Unarce · 03/02/2009, 06:45 PM

Quote:

by fishwood
I'm curious about how they would respond to that.

I'm sure it went something like this...

yupi1982 · 03/02/2009, 07:58 PM

I am part of the original forum were this thread was started by Matt "Wombat" and I would like to show the other side of the coin to the other fellow reefers.

This was their response :

"Of course !

First of all , we tried to contact Mr Wandell for several times , As of today there is still no answer by phone!
After we received the E-mail from Mr Wandell , and after try to contact him over the phone for several times , we left a voicemail , apologizing about the inconvinience of the DOA and the refund was giving to Mr wandell on Friday morning (We as major company are enhaced to paypal and refunds may take between 3-5 business days to be completely back into a bank account.) (Paypal Unique Transaction ID #3JW47118XK891703E - 02/27/2009)

After the incident and since it is an expensive rare fish ! we changed the Policy of the fellow but it was not intended to hurt Mr Wandell's DOA issue. As promessed we did refund the money of the fish.
On the other hand , the policy have not been posted and will not be posted on Candy Basslets beacause of the simple fact that basslets are stronger specimens than Gobies !

On Thrusday morning we had an Email from Mr Wandell wich we reply saying that we will help him solve the problem. and that if he provided with the proof of DOA we will help him.
We recived the Pictures of the fish on Friday , and an hour later the refund of the fish was processed.
We send the Spike fin along with a Pom Pom crab as a gift. We refunded the money 3 days after the incident. and apologized after the DOA Issue.

Hopefully this clarifies the situation, and this be the end of it.

Mr Wandell , we just want to say that if you have a question regarding this issue, please PM us and we will definetly help you.

Sincerly

Kyle Shaffer
Customer Service Department
1-888-874-0001
1-786-343-2000 "

The original thread can be found at NanoReef ... under the sponsor forum... candy basslet !

and there were some responces after that:

"this is were I believe it is safe to assume your an idiot. If you are out 130 and the party oweing you the money is trying to contact you by any means it is up to you to respond appropriately. "

"I thought that Marine Gardens was very conscientious in my dealings of getting the Candy Basslet. They called me before shipping the fish and asked what the temperature was here in WI so they would know how many heat packs to include. They also double-checked that I would be home to receive the fish, indicated all over the box that the box contained live fish, shipped it out at the last minute to reduce shipping time/stress on the fish, and shipped it Fed-Ex by 10 am. Lastly, Marine Garden shipped the fish in plenty of water- I think there must've been at least half a gallon in that box.

The interior of the box was still warm as was the water. To be honest, I've never received a box from an online sw fish vendor (except for members here) that was still warm when I received it- because it takes time to activate the heat packs and let them warm up before shipping. A lot of online vendors don't realize this and/or don't take the time to do it.

Marine Garden would be my first choice for ordering a rare fish. My only .02 to them would be to apply the live arrival guarantee to all fish, regardless of price, because I think it will save them a lot of headaches/negative feedback in the long run. "

"This whole debate is stupid. The company refunded your money and gave a valid explanation for the change and apologized for the misunderstanding. Most people take it as that, just let it lay and stop trying to make it seem like some great injustice was exacted upon you. Businesses are made up of people who work hard for their livings, why crusade to tarnish a reputation when all is copesetic? "

This was was even a responce of one of the Moderators...

"He already explained why they changed the policy. The true mark of a good business is how willing they are to help when you have an issue. You got your refund. Regardless of how miffed you are, the situation has been resolved. You've made your negative feedback known, please move on with your life. "

Matt....I also heard good comments about the company....I would say let it go man ...that is an stablish company and I do not think they would do that to hurt you.

My two cents.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 08:38 PM

Why should I let it go when people are attacking me for posting facts?

yupi1982 · 03/02/2009, 08:52 PM

hahaha I saw the entire original thread ...and all I have to say is....have a life bitter boy !

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 08:53 PM

This is the full email exchange, by the way. If the very last quote box had been their first response (as their website stated), then there wouldn't have been any issue at all. As you can see from the bolded, they clearly were leading me to believe that they hadn't changed the website:

Quote:

The goby was DOA unfortunately. You offer live arrival, correct? Will you reimburse part or all of the price?

I sent a voicemail as well.

Quote:

This beautiful felllow was witth us for about a month, already eating , and was properly packaged ! As stated in the website this rare fish do not qualify for replacement , but if you provide us with 5 pictures inside and outside the water, with the date on it we may come to an arrangement !
Please concatct us as soon as possible.
We look forward to do more business with you !

Quote:

The website is a bit confusing then as it states:

â€œPrices may vary depending on the weight but we will guarantee live arrival of any fish coral or invert we sendâ€

Can you see how I would understand this to mean you have a live arrival guarantee?

I can send you as many pictures as you like, I could even send the fish back as it is floating in formalin right now. I should have some pictures by tomorrow morning.

Quote:

Mr Wandell:

If you visit many websites around the market for several , there is many rare fellows that for several reasons are not covered by policies. if you go to the actual fish you'll notices that. but Sinec this was your first order trough us we want you completely satisfy so you can come back.

We will try to conctact you again on Friday the 27 around 9 am EST.

Please proveide us with the pictures and we will try to solve this issue the best way possible !

Quote:

This is very disappointing.

This is a cache of the webpage as it appeared earlier this week when I ordered the fish:

http://209.85.173.132/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

It looks like you have changed it to add this disclaimer: â€œDue to it's price , the Live arrival guaranteed does not applyâ€. I also notice you do not have such a disclaimer on several other expensive fish such as Candy Basslet, Helfrichâ€™s firefish, Peppermint Hogfish, etc. Did you change the website after I reported the DOA?

Quote:

Mr Wandell. you do not have to worry . We will grant you complete refund of the fish, hopefully the little pom pom crab is still alive so you can enjoy it !

Thank you so much for the pictures !

Customer service is our top priority

fishwood · 03/02/2009, 08:54 PM

Sorry if I'm paying undue attention to this, but if I were to put on my Johnny Cochran hat, I'd say there's an inconsistency with what's being said here and Matt's still got a valid beef.

Initially, according to Matt, they suggested to him that the policy was already in place, and had simply failed to make note of it on the website.

Then, according to what was written above, the policy was put in place in response to Matt's situation, and it was simply a "misunderstanding" that kept them from backing the promised guarantee.

Sounds like backpedaling to me. They initially tried to deny it, waited to see if he'd make things difficult, and then when he did, they reversed course.

That's not the "true mark of a good business." You can get a refund out of a lot of bad businesses if you hassle them enough about it. The more salient issue is how they treat you during that process.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yupi1982
hahaha I saw the entire original thread ...and all I have to say is....have a life bitter boy !

Would making childish insults in the Miami Reefkeepers forum constitute "having a life"?

yupi1982 · 03/02/2009, 08:57 PM

Why you dont invite the reefers from this forum to take a look at the original thread aahhh.......Oh I forgat , it must been because you are BANNED from the forum !

Ohh my god...Grow up would you !! seriously ...get a life man !!

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by yupi1982
Why you dont invite the reefers from this forum to take a look at the original thread aahhh.......Oh I forgat , it must been because you are BANNED from the forum !

Ohh my god...Grow up would you !! seriously ...get a life man !!

WOW! So you're Alejandro Angel, from Marine Gardens! Are you the one who changed the website? Why would you come on here and attack me with an alias of "yupi1982"? If you stand behind your business, why don't you represent your business and post as yourself in a professional manner?

I'm not banned from N-R.com by the way (omit the space):
http://www.nano- reef.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=187444&st=80

yupi1982 · 03/02/2009, 09:12 PM

ohh my god ..and now what are you gonna come up with.....
again grow up.....you are nonsense..just wanted to share the other comments with reefcentral. I as a hobbiest have purchase from different companies, but besides the issue, you have nothing else to do !

Good luck pal !

Bamm Bamm · 03/02/2009, 09:16 PM

Thanks for the heads up I hate vendors that don't stand by there word!!!

BrianD · 03/02/2009, 09:22 PM

Interesting:

Quote:

Originally posted by yupi1982
I am triying to buy the best Ozone Reactor in the market

any thoughts???

Alejandro

yupi, you need to refrain from posting on this thread again, and you also need to contact me and explain why you didn't identify yourself as connected to this vendor.

Additionally, personal attacks will not be tolerated on Reef Central.

BrianD · 03/02/2009, 09:24 PM

Please use the "report this post" button if he ignores my request and posts on this thread again.

Matt_Wandell · 03/02/2009, 09:34 PM

Thank you Brian!

Reef n' Madness · 03/02/2009, 09:39 PM

Thanks Brian and thanks Matt for sharing. It is unfortunate you had to deal with the DOA issue to begin with but then to have it followed up with the attacks is just awful.

MrsRonMidtownStomp · 03/02/2009, 09:53 PM

I just read through the nr thread and was appalled that their 'moderator' was so blatantly biased! I appreciate that Brian took the time to research yupi and take appropriate action; it makes me much happier to be on RC rather than on one of those 'other' reef sites. Thanks!

mpoletti · 03/02/2009, 10:00 PM

Wow Matt, I am sorry that you not only had to experience the less than reputable vendor, but that you also had to deal with someone who wanted to hash it out on top of it. Since he mentioned that you should get a life, maybe you should post a picture of your 200,000 gallon tank

03/02/2009, 05:05 PM	#1
Matt_Wandell Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 795	SHADY--MarineGardens.com Wow. I have never had this kind of an experience in my 10 years in the hobby, and I feel like I should let other people that might be contemplating buying from this business know about it. I received a spikefin goby DOA from www.marinesgardens.com on Wednesday. This was unfortunate, but it of course happens in the MO industry. When I contacted Marine Gardens about the LIVE ARRIVAL GUARANTEE later that day, I was told that a live arrival guarantee did not apply to this fish due to its price. That seemed very odd, since many other expensive fish on the site (such as the CANDY BASSLET) have no such disclaimer. I really did not remember seeing that kind of disclaimer on the goby when I ordered it...was my memory slipping? Surely I would have checked thoroughly to ensure that a $130 fish was guaranteed? Sure enough though, their website said that the SPIKEFIN GOBY was not guaranteed. Unfortunately, it looks like they changed the website to add the disclaimer after I contacted them about the mort. If you look up google's cache of the page HERE you can see that there is no such disclaimer. I've saved copies of all of these pages on my HD in case they change them again. I disputed the charge with my CC company so it looks like I'll be getting all the money back. Still, the whole experience leaves a very bad taste in my mouth. If a guarantee is promised, a guarantee should be upheld, and I shouldn't need to play detective to figure out I've been baited and switched. I will certainly never buy anything from there again. Matt The page when I bought the goby: The page after I contacted them about the DOA:

03/02/2009, 06:11 PM	#4
funman1 Premium Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Citrus Heights, CA Posts: 4,633	Nice job catching them.. I have used Google Cache more than once to check out things like that. Nice catch! Lets see them dispute that one! I won't be making ANY purchases from them now!! __________________ A Reef Aquarium is a hole between sheets of glass, that the aquarist fills with money. "Sharks are naturally peaceful." Jack of all trades, and master of none. ~Steve~ Current Tank Info: 75G, 30 Gallon Cube, (2) 12G NANOs, 20G Garage Grow out,

03/02/2009, 07:58 PM	#10
yupi1982 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NORTH MIAMI Posts: 58	I am part of the original forum were this thread was started by Matt "Wombat" and I would like to show the other side of the coin to the other fellow reefers. This was their response : "Of course ! First of all , we tried to contact Mr Wandell for several times , As of today there is still no answer by phone! After we received the E-mail from Mr Wandell , and after try to contact him over the phone for several times , we left a voicemail , apologizing about the inconvinience of the DOA and the refund was giving to Mr wandell on Friday morning (We as major company are enhaced to paypal and refunds may take between 3-5 business days to be completely back into a bank account.) (Paypal Unique Transaction ID #3JW47118XK891703E - 02/27/2009) After the incident and since it is an expensive rare fish ! we changed the Policy of the fellow but it was not intended to hurt Mr Wandell's DOA issue. As promessed we did refund the money of the fish. On the other hand , the policy have not been posted and will not be posted on Candy Basslets beacause of the simple fact that basslets are stronger specimens than Gobies ! On Thrusday morning we had an Email from Mr Wandell wich we reply saying that we will help him solve the problem. and that if he provided with the proof of DOA we will help him. We recived the Pictures of the fish on Friday , and an hour later the refund of the fish was processed. We send the Spike fin along with a Pom Pom crab as a gift. We refunded the money 3 days after the incident. and apologized after the DOA Issue. Hopefully this clarifies the situation, and this be the end of it. Mr Wandell , we just want to say that if you have a question regarding this issue, please PM us and we will definetly help you. Sincerly Kyle Shaffer Customer Service Department 1-888-874-0001 1-786-343-2000 " The original thread can be found at NanoReef ... under the sponsor forum... candy basslet ! and there were some responces after that: "this is were I believe it is safe to assume your an idiot. If you are out 130 and the party oweing you the money is trying to contact you by any means it is up to you to respond appropriately. " "I thought that Marine Gardens was very conscientious in my dealings of getting the Candy Basslet. They called me before shipping the fish and asked what the temperature was here in WI so they would know how many heat packs to include. They also double-checked that I would be home to receive the fish, indicated all over the box that the box contained live fish, shipped it out at the last minute to reduce shipping time/stress on the fish, and shipped it Fed-Ex by 10 am. Lastly, Marine Garden shipped the fish in plenty of water- I think there must've been at least half a gallon in that box. The interior of the box was still warm as was the water. To be honest, I've never received a box from an online sw fish vendor (except for members here) that was still warm when I received it- because it takes time to activate the heat packs and let them warm up before shipping. A lot of online vendors don't realize this and/or don't take the time to do it. Marine Garden would be my first choice for ordering a rare fish. My only .02 to them would be to apply the live arrival guarantee to all fish, regardless of price, because I think it will save them a lot of headaches/negative feedback in the long run. " "This whole debate is stupid. The company refunded your money and gave a valid explanation for the change and apologized for the misunderstanding. Most people take it as that, just let it lay and stop trying to make it seem like some great injustice was exacted upon you. Businesses are made up of people who work hard for their livings, why crusade to tarnish a reputation when all is copesetic? " This was was even a responce of one of the Moderators... "He already explained why they changed the policy. The true mark of a good business is how willing they are to help when you have an issue. You got your refund. Regardless of how miffed you are, the situation has been resolved. You've made your negative feedback known, please move on with your life. " Matt....I also heard good comments about the company....I would say let it go man ...that is an stablish company and I do not think they would do that to hurt you. My two cents. Last edited by yupi1982; 03/02/2009 at 08:32 PM.

03/02/2009, 09:16 PM	#19
Bamm Bamm SPS Freak Join Date: Apr 2000 Location: Brentwood, Ca work in Sacramento Posts: 6,527	Thanks for the heads up I hate vendors that don't stand by there word!!! __________________ Dec 09 20g acrylic, vortech mp20, 250w 20k Radium, 360' degree viewable Current Tank Info: 20g

03/02/2009, 09:24 PM	#21
BrianD Keeper of Buster Join Date: Oct 1999 Location: Mattoon, IL Posts: 24,858	Please use the "report this post" button if he ignores my request and posts on this thread again. __________________ Always strive for the optimum environment, not the minimum environment. Please read the "Fish Primer" series in Reef Fishes Current Tank Info: 550

03/02/2009, 05:11 PM	#2
Reefugee Premium Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Davis, CA Posts: 5,810	Thanks Matt. You should share your experience on the Vendor Experiences forum. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/fo...p?s=&forumid=8

03/02/2009, 05:15 PM	#3
Kaiden Premium Member Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ione, California Posts: 626	Thanks Matt... That is plain WRONG! On the bright side, you caught them because you are computer literate. Good Job!!! I do this type of detective work daily at work... it's sometimes fun to catch people trying to pull fast ones.. __________________ - John I want to die in my sleep like my grandfather. Not screaming and yelling like the passengers in his car.. Current Tank Info: Way too much to list! It's a 250 Gallon Box of Water with a lot of Overly Priced, Much Needed, Highly Desired, Must Have, and Would Kill for Equipment :)

03/02/2009, 06:24 PM	#5
fishwood Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 181	Did you tell them about the cached page? I'm curious about how they would respond to that. This sort of unethical practice really irks me. You should start one of those online petitions of people vowing not to buy from them, showing what they did. Then post it on RC and the nano site, and when it gets sufficiently long, forward it to them with a politely worded question of whether or not the $130 saved was worth the negativity.

03/02/2009, 06:32 PM	#8
Matt_Wandell Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 795	Here is the correct link to the cached page: http://209.85.173.132/search?client=...UTF-8&oe=UTF-8

03/02/2009, 08:38 PM	#11
Matt_Wandell Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 795	Why should I let it go when people are attacking me for posting facts?

03/02/2009, 08:52 PM	#12
yupi1982 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NORTH MIAMI Posts: 58	hahaha I saw the entire original thread ...and all I have to say is....have a life bitter boy !

03/02/2009, 08:54 PM	#14
fishwood Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2007 Location: Sacramento, CA Posts: 181	Sorry if I'm paying undue attention to this, but if I were to put on my Johnny Cochran hat, I'd say there's an inconsistency with what's being said here and Matt's still got a valid beef. Initially, according to Matt, they suggested to him that the policy was already in place, and had simply failed to make note of it on the website. Then, according to what was written above, the policy was put in place in response to Matt's situation, and it was simply a "misunderstanding" that kept them from backing the promised guarantee. Sounds like backpedaling to me. They initially tried to deny it, waited to see if he'd make things difficult, and then when he did, they reversed course. That's not the "true mark of a good business." You can get a refund out of a lot of bad businesses if you hassle them enough about it. The more salient issue is how they treat you during that process.

03/02/2009, 08:57 PM	#16
yupi1982 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NORTH MIAMI Posts: 58	Why you dont invite the reefers from this forum to take a look at the original thread aahhh.......Oh I forgat , it must been because you are BANNED from the forum ! Ohh my god...Grow up would you !! seriously ...get a life man !!

03/02/2009, 09:12 PM	#18
yupi1982 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: NORTH MIAMI Posts: 58	ohh my god ..and now what are you gonna come up with..... again grow up.....you are nonsense..just wanted to share the other comments with reefcentral. I as a hobbiest have purchase from different companies, but besides the issue, you have nothing else to do ! Good luck pal !

03/02/2009, 09:34 PM	#22
Matt_Wandell Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2007 Location: SF CA Posts: 795	Thank you Brian!

03/02/2009, 09:39 PM	#23
Reef n' Madness Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Davis, CA Posts: 867	Thanks Brian and thanks Matt for sharing. It is unfortunate you had to deal with the DOA issue to begin with but then to have it followed up with the attacks is just awful. __________________ ~Kay

03/02/2009, 09:53 PM	#24
MrsRonMidtownStomp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Orangevale Posts: 69	Thanks Brian! I just read through the nr thread and was appalled that their 'moderator' was so blatantly biased! I appreciate that Brian took the time to research yupi and take appropriate action; it makes me much happier to be on RC rather than on one of those 'other' reef sites. Thanks!

03/02/2009, 10:00 PM	#25
mpoletti I lost my stars Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Sacramento, Ca Posts: 14,859	Wow Matt, I am sorry that you not only had to experience the less than reputable vendor, but that you also had to deal with someone who wanted to hash it out on top of it. Since he mentioned that you should get a life, maybe you should post a picture of your 200,000 gallon tank __________________ -Mark I'm not cool enough for any clubs