Need some help with Polyurethane finish

[Vincerama2]

Hi guys, this is not actually reef related, but this would be a good forum to ask in.

I built a table for my kids (using pocket screws and incredibly soft wood "white wood" from Lowes...bah!). The wood is so soft that everything dents it. So I wanted to make sure the tabletop is protected from the abuses of two toddlers.

I put 3 coats of polyurethane on it, using techniques I found in "Family Handyman" magazine. Basically I used a microfiber roller to apply it to the top and used wipe-on poly for the legs and apron/skirt.

The wipe-on parts are nice, but thin (3 coats) but that's OK because they won't see much abuse. The top of the table has 3 rolled on coats and one wipe-on coat but ... I can't get the stupid dust to stop wrecking the finish!

I have been very lightly sanding between coats, and wiping off the dust with mineral spirits, but I screwed up a lot. When a piece of fuzz settled in one layer, I sanded it out and put a wipe-on layer on...but that left visible sanding marks, so I put another layer of full poly on top...and of course now I have dust specks on it.

So...my question is this, given that I can't make my shop perfectly dust free...

should I...

1) very lightly sand the top again WITH the grain, then add a final quick drying wipe-on poly layer, then call it done
2) wait until it's cured a bit more (few more days, or a week?) then "rub a crumpled brown paper bag" on it (Not sure what this does)
3) wait until it's cured a bit more (few more days, or a week?) then wet sand with 600 grit sandpaper
4) Say "Screw it, the kids don't care if the top has a few bumps, plus the top will be covered with crayon and scratch marks anyway so any attempt at a nice finish is pointless"

I think 1 would be good BUT I don't want to wait for yet another layer of poly to dry/cure and get more dust motes, though wipe-on has the advantage of going on thin and drying fast ... so less dust. But I also don't want to resand and wipe the current surface.

What does the brown paper bag thing do? Does it just smoosh down the bumps or "polish" the top somehow? I've seen this advice (also a crumpled piece of masking tape ball) on the net.

Would wet sanding with super fine paper do anything? Would it really polish the surface?

Then of course there is "Bah, just give them the table" which I think would be fine too, but since I spent quite some time building it, I'd like the top to be sorta nice when I show it to my wife before it gets destroyed by the kids. Partly to justify why I spend so much time in the "workshop" and partly because I think she thinks I have no skills whatsoever and want to show her that I do.

What do you guys think?

V

[Vincerama2]

Oh yeah, before anyone else mentions it, I KNOW that IKEA sells toddler tables AND chairs in a set for like $30. And I know that $20 worth of wood, $1000 worth of tools and many hours of my time don't make sense financially, but then I also got to woodburn (with a soldering iron) onto the bottom of the table "For Chloe and Samantha, Love Dad" and actually give them something that I built with my own two hands (and tablesaw, and router, and bessey K clamps, and kreg pocket hole jig, and $20 worth of polyurethane)

You just can't buy somethings (well, actually, you can at Ikea in this case :p ).

V

[billdogg]

Here's what I do to get a glass-like finish using oil based polyurethane (I hate the water based stuff)

1. Sand bare wood to 220 grit
2. Use a tack cloth to remove all dust
3. saturate the wood with wood conditioner (assures even staining)
4. Stain to desired color, wait 24 hours
5. using #0000 steel wool, go with the grain only (NEVER AGAINST)to knock down and wood fibers that are now sticking up
6. tack cloth again
7. apply thin coat of polyurethane - I prefer to use a foam brush - works best for me - DO NOT over brush it - you'll just create more bubbles m- allow to dry per intructions
8. #0000 steel wool WITH THE GRAIN!
9. tack cloth
10. apply 2nd coat of polyurethane, allow to dry per instructions on can
11. #0000 steel wool
12. tack cloth
13. you get the idea?

I do not care for wipe on polyurethane finishes - If you are willing to put in the effort, you can have a nearly indestructable finish. For the bar in my basement, I used about 15 layers - it looks like you could drown in it.

HTH

[Vincerama2]

Thanks Billdog .. what do you do with the final layer? Do you 0000 steel wool it again?

I neglected the sealing part. I think you can 50/50 thin out poly to use as sealer but ... I didn't do this. I wish I had as there are some cracks where the the poly dips in. The surface has some knots in it, I didn't pick the best wood pieces...I picked them up from Lowes in a hurry as I had to go right after work, and before daycare pickup.

I'm gonna call this the "beta" kids table. When they outgrow it, I'll make another, but using better wood and maybe even using mortise/tennon joinery for fun/practice. The pocket holes are mostly fine, but I majorly screwed up one join when my dump drill/driver was set to drill instead of drive and I basically drilled out the screw hole.

V

[coralnut99]

Neat touch with the woodburning.

Unfortunately, even if you do get to a glass-like finish on the table, and the kids are somehow kind to it with the fingerpaint, playdo, and crayons, you can put a dozen coats on it and it won't make much more dent-resistant. That white wood is most probably white pine, and is just about as soft as a baby's behind. Most HD's and Lowes sell glued up slabs of yellow pine that they sell as "tabletops" and come in a few different sizes. Significantly more dense, though entirely different in appearance and may cost just a bit more than their clear white pine.

Just as a matter of choice, I don't use steel wool very much on flat surfaces. You can find sandpaper in very high grits that will leave virtually no swirl marks. Steel wool is great for irregular surfaces though. I have a 600 grit paper that depending on the finish, I can get away with simply waxing over the last sanding and it's swirl-free.

[Vincerama2]

Yeah, that "white wood" is horrible. Well OK, it machines very easily, but I swear if I put the table top down on a pencil, it leaves a dent!!

I'll use better wood next time. I have a feeling this table isn't going to last very long. Well, they'll outgrow it before it breaks I hope...unless they decide to climb up on it!

There are a few lumber stores near my place and since I do have a jointer and planer, I should just get better grade unfinished lumber instead of going the easy way!

So it more layers won't really help then I think I'll let the table sit and cure, then rub it down with a brown paper bag or 600+ grit wet sandpaper.

V

[chicken]

Its always going to be hard to keep dust off of standard poly as its open time is so long. There are some nice water based polys that dry fairly quickly. I typically use lacquer for most of my projects I build but when I need the durability of a poly I use General Finishes High Performance Poly. It supposedly brushes on really smoothly for a poly but I spray everything so I do not have any first hand knowledge. I also buy most of my finishes at Homestead Finishes. http://www.homesteadfinishingproducts.com/htdocs/generalfinishes.htm#generalclears

Jeff is probably one of the best finishers out there and author of a few really good finishing books. Check out his site and give him a call if you have any questions. They also have a decent discussion forum on about everything you can think of about finishing. Also check out The Creek at http://www.sawmillcreek.org Lots of knowledgeable people over there that can give you some pointers.

[blibo]

Ever heard of Rhino Truckbed Liner? :lolspin:

[coralnut99]

Ever heard of Rhino Truckbed Liner? :lolspin:

Too funny. I REALLY wish it was around when my kids were in the fingerpaint stage. I still have their "craft table". And my wife wonders why I waited so long to fix up the family room!

[Vincerama2]

I've decided to let the last "shell" harden for it's suggested "max curing time" of 14 days and then rub it down with a paper bag. I came to the conclusion that the kids are gonna wreck any finish I put on there anyway.

I'm also adding some "gussets" to strengthen the legs and attach them more firmly to the table skirt. I'm not sure how this table will hold up to the abuses of twin 2 year olds, but we'll find out! I'm already planning their next table ... which will NOT be made of "WHITE WOOD" which is secret Home Depot/Lowes code for "knotty wood with the density of styrofoam". Seriously, I accidentally banged a leg on the door moving the table and it left a dent. It's doomed!

V

[pbaldwin]

If your kids are going to be abusing it and the wood is that soft I would use a pour on finish for the top.

http://www.creative-wholesale.com/Envirotex%20Lite.htm

Not as pretty but much more durable.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

Vince, having grown up in a family of antique dealers, those aren't dents you're seeing in the wood, it's distress marks. And patina.

The trick is to use fancy words that makes the damage sound like it adds value. :D

[Vincerama2]

That table will have some seriously distressed patina on it!

The only thing that would hold up to these kids would be a steel table!

V

[coralnut99]

With one just out of college, one just going in college, and the "baby" going to college in a year and a half, today I can read this thread and really find it funny. 15 years ago, it was nothing but distress and the patina is now getting replaced..........one room at a time.

I admire your submission to the whole 2-year old era, and just let them have at it.

[Hawkdl2]

My preferred finish these days for my studio furniture is sprayed water based lacquer - amazing stuff, but if that finish isn't "right" for a piece, I use General Finishes, Waterlox or shellac. However, the water based polys at HD and Lowes are actually fairly nice products these days and easy to apply. Regardless of which "poly" you use, you do not have to over complicate the finishing process. You will get a very nice finish by brushing on 1 sealer layer of poly cut 50:50 with mineral spirits (or whatever is recommended on the can), a light sanding with 220 grit, followed by 2 full strength coats using a foam brush, let it set for a couple of days, give it a light parallel-to-the-grain sand with 320 grit followed by a wipe on coat of full strength. There is no need to sand between the middle coats. Let the table sit for at least 7 days (14 is better) then remove dust by wet sanding (mineral spirits or water) with 600girt or using a paper bag. Water based products cure faster.

At this point you will have a finish that is perfect for your application. You can end here, but If the finish sheen looks uneven you can bring the whole thing back to nearly full gloss by polishing with regular automotive car polishing/rubbing compound. A final wax coat and the finish will be nearly mirror like. More work than it's worth for most applications.

Patience after the final coat and ignoring the dust until the end is key.

Use semi-gloss or satin and it takes less polishing at the end.

Fill knots and void with epoxy before finishing - if you want to. A sealer won't do anything for large filling voids, whereas a pore filler will help with open grain woods, but not voids.

[Vincerama2]

Good advice all. So I've let it sit for 7 days, though admittedly two days ago, I was doing a layer of "wipe-on" for some re-inforcing gussets (ie triangles for the corners to tie the legs to the aprons) and decided to wipe on juuuuust-one-more coat onto the top. Since it's wipe-on I think the 7 day cured full coat under it should be hard enough.

I'll try the paper bag trick, though I do have some 600 grit sandpaper that I can also try.

There is lots of bits of dust and I think one tiny bug in the coating already.

Oh as for "final wax coating" I'll leave that to the girls. I think "Crayola Rose Red" is a good colour.

V

[Hawkdl2]

Well post a pic when your done so we can see how it turned out.