Reeflo Hammerhead Gold Problems

[wazel]

Hi all,
Does anyone out there have a Hammerhead Gold that does NOT leak from the shaft seal???? I just purchased a new HHG and it had motor problems and a leaky shaft seal. Reeflo shipped me another HHG and this new one still has a leaky shaft seal, i replaced the seal at my own expense and it still leaks.
If anyone out there has experience with this issue please post or pm me. For the cost of this pump it should not leak out of the box !! especially two of them !!! :mad2:

Thx

[pondwater]

I had the same problem with a Dart. After reading your post, I would not buy one again

[tkeracer619]

I run 7 at work and none of them leak. Also run 6 dart/snappers none of them leak.

I did have two that did and they replaced them quickly.

They are external pumps that rely on a moving seal. They will give you years of dependable service. Chances are you got a bad set of pumps. If you changed the seal and it still leaks it could be the front bearing on the motor causeing the seal to go bad.

Contact them and get a 3rd pump.

[wazel]

I like the performance of the pump and it sips electricty but this leak issue is really strange. I dont have it installed in some bizarre manner the seal actually seems to be leaking from in between the "metal cup" and the motor bracket. Ive used all-glass silicone sealent and the water still gets through.

[tkeracer619]

If its the seal there is this little washer on the shaft that is supposed to sling the water off the shaft and keep the water out of the motor.

[wazel]

that washer is there, but from what i see it has nothing to do with keeping the water from seeping between the seal and the motor bracket. All it appears to be for is just like you said, to keep any water that does leak
from the shaft seal from entering the front motor bearings.

[psychostieg]

The only thing that I can guess that would cause so many seals to go bad would be a bent shaft..... There is no other reasonable answer for a pump to go thru that many seals!! I have owned reeflos for years and never had any issue like that.... Definitely contact reeflo...... They seriously owe you for this one.... I'll be watching to see how they handle this.....this one's on their hands!

[camp]

My hammerhead gold dont leak,and it has been 5 months so far. I just jinxed myself.Reeflo has good customer support.I would call them.

[wazel]

Reeflo repaired my pump so it is running dry now. But when I asked what was wrong with it all I got was "Honestly I don't know" .
So for the moment I guess I'm a satisfied customer.
One last note and perhaps one of you experienced Reeflo owners can answer this question.
While waiting for my pump to be returned i was carefully looking over the Hammerhead seals I had purchased looking for any kind of defect that would make it leak. The one thing i noticed on the white ceramic disk that fits into the rubber boot that fits into the impeller appears to have two different sides.
One side is completly smooth, the other side is equally smooth except it also has groove in the middle of the cermaic surface. Which side should be facing the seal that fits into the motor housing?

[wazel]

Well it ran for 2 whole months and is now leaking again. I cant believe im the only one out here with a issue with a hammerhead gold pump. Do not many people use these pumps. The thing that really has killed me now is, i am forced to keep using this pump. Since i built my system around it i dont have much of a choice to replace it. In fact I just purchased a second one so i can work on the first one. Reeflo has not been much help. I realize that a pump is a very simple machine and Reeflo's options are somewhat limited on how to fix this thing, but there has to be more people having this issue. I just pray my new HH gold runs dry for more than 2 months. I must say I will not recommend a reeflo to anyone at this point. After I install my new HH gold, im going to start the fight with Reeflo.

[spieg]

Ive been running mine for about 3 months, no leaks yet! Is there anything abnormal about your install location, or the plumbing or anything?

[wazel]

Nope its all perfectly level all the pipes are supported, I even sent reeflo a picture of the install so they can see for themselves thats its not some halfassed install. All the plumbing is the right size. The pump leaked right out of the box. The shaft seal is a pretty simple piece of hardware. Thats what makes this so frustrating. There is just not much to go wrong nor is there much you can do except replace the seal which has been done at least 5 times. 4 by me at my own expense and once by reeflo. the fix by reeflo is the one that lasted 2 months perhaps they are better at replacing them than me but i followed their instructions to the letter. In either case i still have a leaking pump. I have over $1000 invested in 2 HH golds now. I understand if reeflo will be frustrated with me but something is wrong. Since i sent them a picture of my install i have not heard a word from them. I am going to install my new HHgold this weekend so on monday i will be contacting them to figure out where we go from here.Here is a pic of my install. Its from before my reef went live, but nothing has changed.

[wazel]

Just and update. I recieved my second HHG today and was stunned when i opened the box. The pump looked nothing like my first HHG. The motor is 25% bigger and is painted totally gold in color. It is also clearly labled as a Baldor super efficent motor and is made in the USA. Reeflo clearly states on its web site that HHG is equipped with a Baldor motor yet my first HHG has a motor that is called a Jet Pump and is made in Mexico !!! Reeflo has some explaining to do !! The mexican pump is clearly not the same quality of the Baldor pump and as far as im concerned Reeflo is doing some kind of bait and switch. This difference in motors must be the reason for my leak problems.
Look out Reeflo here I come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Helter Skilter]

Hi all,
Does anyone out there have a Hammerhead Gold that does NOT leak from the shaft seal????

My HHG doesn't leak at all. I've been running it for about a year now.

Mine doesn't have a Baldor motor. I forget the name of the manf. but I'm pretty sure it was made in Wisconsin, not Mexico.

[jknecht]

Just and update. I recieved my second HHG today and was stunned when i opened the box. The pump looked nothing like my first HHG. The motor is 25% bigger and is painted totally gold in color. It is also clearly labled as a Baldor super efficent motor and is made in the USA. Reeflo clearly states on its web site that HHG is equipped with a Baldor motor yet my first HHG has a motor that is called a Jet Pump and is made in Mexico !!! Reeflo has some explaining to do !! The mexican pump is clearly not the same quality of the Baldor pump and as far as im concerned Reeflo is doing some kind of bait and switch. This difference in motors must be the reason for my leak problems.
Look out Reeflo here I come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

The same thing happened to me yesterday. I sent a leaking Hammerhead Gold in for repair in June. It would have been my fourth set of seals in less than two years, so Reeflo asked me to send it in for repair. About three weeks went by and I hadn't heard anything so I contacted them. Reeflo stated they couldn't repair the pump as it was beyond repair, so they offered me a normal Hammerhead. They didn't have Hammerhead Gold's in stock and it could be three weeks before they might have them. I told them I would wait for a Hammerhead Gold since it uses less power, and I spent more on a Gold for that reason. Then yesterday UPS delivered this.

http://www.myreefaddictions.com/tankbuild/IMG_4944.jpg

http://www.myreefaddictions.com/tankbuild/IMG_4946.jpg

I was shocked as well. I just spoke to Chris the owner of Reeflo and he stated the new Gold Pump we received is the latest and greatest. They switched from Marathon back to Baldor. Marathon did start making pumps in Mexico and Reeflo was unaware so they are back to Baldor. Chris said the new version is a great pump. Now I'm stoked. I have to say thanks to Beth and Chris @ Reeflo.

[tkeracer619]

Sweet!

[Atomikk]

Just and update. I recieved my second HHG today and was stunned when i opened the box. The pump looked nothing like my first HHG. The motor is 25% bigger and is painted totally gold in color. It is also clearly labled as a Baldor super efficent motor and is made in the USA. Reeflo clearly states on its web site that HHG is equipped with a Baldor motor yet my first HHG has a motor that is called a Jet Pump and is made in Mexico !!! Reeflo has some explaining to do !! The mexican pump is clearly not the same quality of the Baldor pump and as far as im concerned Reeflo is doing some kind of bait and switch. This difference in motors must be the reason for my leak problems.
Look out Reeflo here I come !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I am having a similar issue involving the Wahoo pumps. If fact, the water was making contact with the motor, creating an unwatred stray current in my system. Multiply that by two, as I run two Wahoo pumps.

As well, their customer service has not met my expectations as of yet. Being in Canada, I would expect for them to have some warranty programs with LFSs, but they dont. They expect us to incur the cost of sending the warrantied items back to them. From Canada, it is a bit more difficult as it involves cutoms, etc.

I hope you resolve your issues soon. I have been very patient with them, but I would think twice before recommending their pumps to other reefers.

I did notice that you had valved the pump on the outflow fitting. I had the exact same setup with my Wahoo pumps. Apparently, these pumps do not like back pressure, so i think that is where our problem is.

Good luck with Sequence.

[rbredding]

I did notice that you had valved the pump on the outflow fitting. I had the exact same setup with my Wahoo pumps. Apparently, these pumps do not like back pressure, so i think that is where our problem is.


a pump doesn't know the difference between pumping water up 10' and a gate valve that's cranked down...


head pressure is head pressure (assuming there is SOME flow)

I've got a Snapper (with AO Smith motor) it functions flawlessly..

[tkeracer619]

IF you having constant problems its a bearing issue not a seal issue. A shaft issue is possible but highly unlikely unless its been dropped. If the bearing goes out the seal is soon to follow and they will only last a couple months. A bearing can look fine to the eye, roll smooth, and be quiet while still being damaged.

Have them replace the bearings when they do the seals.

[Atomikk]

a pump doesn't know the difference between pumping water up 10' and a gate valve that's cranked down...


head pressure is head pressure (assuming there is SOME flow)

I've got a Snapper (with AO Smith motor) it functions flawlessly..

I am not an engineer, but have asked one, and the answer is simple: if you close the valve between the valve and the pump's impeller cavity, you create more pressure in that area. Simple physics actually.

This is the problem with these pumps, that specific area receives a lot of back pressure from the valves, which we use to control the amount of flow from the pumps.

[wazel]

Hello all,
This is just a final follow up from me regarding this issue for anyone who may come across this issue. It appears that I FINALLY found why my HHG seals would leak. I was always looking at the part of the seal that fits into to pump housing (the half of the seal with the spring) as the issue. Turns out the problem was with the half of the seal that fits into the impeller. I happened to look at the seal while i had the pump dissasembled and running with the impeller attached. I noticed that the spring was vibrating quite a bit, so i removed the impeller and looked at that half of the seal and discovered that the seal was not completely flat sitting in its socket. I had always just used my thumb to push it into its socket, but i guess that was not enough pressure to seat it all the way and make it level. I got a piece of sheet acrylic that i had lying around and flipped the impeller over and pushed the impeller seal side down against it on the floor. The seal then seated level into its socket. I re-attached the impeller and turned the pump on and the seal spring was nice and smooth, no more vibrating as it tried to keep the two seal surfaces parallel. I returned it to service and its been dry ever since. Hope this helps you.!

[wazel]

My HHG is leaking again. Reeflo makes lousy pumps. I now have 2 HHG's that are usless. I just ordered an Iwaki MD-100RLT (Japanese Motor)
2000 GPH and will re-plumb. Hopefully this will solve my issue once and for all.
NEVER buy a Reeflo Hammerhead Gold pump.:sad2:

[Triton_Z]

Wazel,

Was the last repair with a new mechanical seal? I have worked on a variety of centrifugal pumps (like the reeflo design) and chronic seal leakage can be caused by a variety of causes. It sounds like the root cause of your leakage has never been identified.

Excessive endplay in the motor, high imbalance in the impeller from damage, eccentric operation due to poor fit pump to motor, are all possible causes. I have had a few pumps leak due to poor seal seat fit in the housing.

The stationary part of the seal in the pump housing is the seal seat. The moving component of the seal rides on this seal seat and motor shafting and uses the spring pressure to maintain good contact. I agree movement here as you describe will definitely cause trouble and sounds like mis-assembly could have been the source. It's too bad Reeflo did not help you out to get this solved.

The Iwaki is a magdrive style setup, so no worries about the use of mech seals here.

[wazel]

Got my Iwaki and plumbed it into my system. It's about 7db louder than the HHG.....BUT DOES NOT LEAK !

Case Closed with prejudice 1/12/2013

[fast eddie]

i have 2 hammerhead gold series pumps running my 800 plus gallon system... no problems no leaks !!! i

[BrandinAbbott]

Wazel,

Was the last repair with a new mechanical seal? I have worked on a variety of centrifugal pumps (like the reeflo design) and chronic seal leakage can be caused by a variety of causes. It sounds like the root cause of your leakage has never been identified.

Excessive endplay in the motor, high imbalance in the impeller from damage, eccentric operation due to poor fit pump to motor, are all possible causes. I have had a few pumps leak due to poor seal seat fit in the housing.

The stationary part of the seal in the pump housing is the seal seat. The moving component of the seal rides on this seal seat and motor shafting and uses the spring pressure to maintain good contact. I agree movement here as you describe will definitely cause trouble and sounds like mis-assembly could have been the source. It's too bad Reeflo did not help you out to get this solved.

The Iwaki is a magdrive style setup, so no worries about the use of mech seals here.

I also currently have this problem with my Hammerhead pump w/ Baldor motor. I have not tried to re-seat the seal yet but I am trying to figure out what the "magdrive style setup" is that you are referring to. I have little experience with external pumps. However, its not very complicated and I would like to know the difference with this style vs. the seal on the Hammerhead pumps.

~Brandin~

[Triton_Z]

However, its not very complicated and I would like to know the difference with this style vs. the seal on the Hammerhead pumps.

~Brandin~

Brandin,

The difference between a mechanical sealed pump and a magnetic drive pump is the connection between the motor and pump impeller. A magnetic drive (MagDrive) uses a permanent magnet coupling to connect the motor drive shaft to pump impeller. This setup allows the pump to run without any seals (other than a stationary housing oring) versus the direct shaft connection of a mechanical sealed type pump (Reeflo Hammerhead / Dart / etc).

Do a google image search for Iwaki Magnetic Drive and you can see the configuration of the impeller and magnet drive coupling.

The only disadvantages I see are the added cost and the whether the liquid pumped is clean enough (as the liquid and dirt flows in the area of the magnet coupling).

Magnetic Drive pumps are the way to go for less maintenance for our uses.

I am still having excellent results from my Reeflo Snapper/Dart, but it's located in an accessible location if repairs are needed. If the pump was under a stand and hard to remove, I would have opted for the more reliable solution of a Magnetic Drive style pump.

Good luck with your repairs.

[wazel]

Hello again all,
I just wanted to give a brief update on this story. While my new Iwaki does not leak it does add a huge amount of heat to my tank. My chiller was running constantly. In a fit of depression I decided to try one more time to fix my HHG. I went on Grainger's website and found a "Dayton 3ACF4" shaft seal ($22.00). I used plumbers silicon grease to install it (i used silicon sealant before). And perhaps one other thing that made a difference is I noticed on Reeflo's online seal replacement instructions that you should put clean water on the seal before seating the to sides back together. I had not done this in the past. So long story short.. my HHG has been dry for a little over 2 months. If the fix is the seal or the grease or the clean water I do not know but that formula is working for me at the moment. Time will tell....

[mrkookm]

Hello again all,
I just wanted to give a brief update on this story. While my new Iwaki does not leak it does add a huge amount of heat to my tank. My chiller was running constantly. In a fit of depression I decided to try one more time to fix my HHG. I went on Grainger's website and found a "Dayton 3ACF4" shaft seal ($22.00). I used plumbers silicon grease to install it (i used silicon sealant before). And perhaps one other thing that made a difference is I noticed on Reeflo's online seal replacement instructions that you should put clean water on the seal before seating the to sides back together. I had not done this in the past. So long story short.. my HHG has been dry for a little over 2 months. If the fix is the seal or the grease or the clean water I do not know but that formula is working for me at the moment. Time will tell....


I had a leaky seal issue with my new Goby (FW use & needed lowest flow, but with some head) Gold pump all due to a wobbly impeller which I found out later. I reached out to Chris who as everyone already know provides awesome support, and he did for me the same. He put some seals in the mail as well as a new impeller at no cost.

So during my wait and I got anxious to get my pump up and running so I can complete my assessment of it to verify how well it will handle my low flow requirements. I got such a high flow pump only because I rather not use Pan World / Blueline anymore due to the heat it dumps into the tank and me having to run a chiller often.

Long story short I ended up buying a used Reeflo HH on Craigslist real cheap for it's impeller & wet ends and from Grainger 3 Daytons (1 3ACF5 & 2 3ACF4) & 3 Pac-seals (1 1R317 & 2 1R318). The seals were purchased a day apart.

Initially I went with the Daytons because quite frankly they were more expensive and I associated that with quality, plus it had 'better material' options and it came in a nice box. But wrong, the quality might be there, but they all failed. This always happened when I adjusted the output flow via a valve to around to ~700 - 800gph on a 1" pipe If I leave it on wide open after a few hours there are no issues. Crank down on the valve and it's a wrap--leak in under an hour.

Frustration and no stock of Daytons had me going with the 1R317 seal, but a fail on my part and I ended up cracking the CoolCarb face, so last resort I bought the seal I really never intended on buying from the get go--the 1R318. The specs has it not having a spring retainer, but I bought 2 of them anyway as at this point I was already in deep simplicity of the seal design and it failing got the better of me... I had to figure this out.

In the end the seal that I had no intention of buying because it was too cheap and specs listed it as missing a part is the one that is working extremely well! I even cranked it down way low ~600gph and that sucker has being holding up! So for those of yous looking for a viable option get the 1R318 aka Pac Seal 68-062-04. Wazel says his Dayton works, but it is likely he is using a higher discharge flow than I am, but if a product can do well when it under more stain then less is obviously a non-issue.


I have ordered 2 more online this time around at $8.16ea + $5 ship. At this point I don't even want to try the 1R317 even though it looks identical. I said the same for the Dayton's since they all share the same principle operation wise, but something is different about it and it couldn't handle the increased case pressure of whatever is at work when I crank down on the valve.

BTW I did receive the seal from Reeflo, but that's just another spare at this point.

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o210/mrkookm/Many-seals_zps0cbd0ac8.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o210/mrkookm/Seals_zps252ce82c.jpg

http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o210/mrkookm/bValve_zps9125f26e.jpg

[wazel]

Well my Dayton lasted about a month and is now leaking again. I put my Iwaki back online while I screw around with my HHG some more. I am going to try the seal you are having luck with. Also I just sent my spare HHG back to Reeflo for a vibration and leak issue. They did turn it around very quickly, however it still vibrates and leaks. It appears they replaced the motor and seal with no results. One other BIG issue I noticed is that Reeflo is NOT using Carbide Silicon seals in these pumps as they advertise. The seal they put in my pump was a standard ceramic seal. I found a Silicon Carbide seal on the Grainger website ($62.00) that is my next try to fix the issue. Does anyone know of company that makes a pump like a Reeflo, I would love to toss them to the curb.

[wazel]

Well its been a week with the 1R318. So far so good......time will tell

[5pacey]

Well... I was sorta thinking about the Barracuda/Hammerhead hybrid as one of my options but this thread puts the last nail in that coffin for sure. I've been peeve'd @ ReeFlo anyway for ditching BlowHoles recently after a year on the market because I bought one and was going to build my system around them :headwally: Good specs on paper, did hydrostatic testing during which it ran great, quiet, good flow etc... Looks like I am looking @ PW 200PS, sounds like less average complaints/less than perfect comments than about Iwaki. I am stuck w/BH 1100 now though which I'll either have to sell @ 50% discount or find some unplanned use for it.

Space :D

[wazel]

Well I have not put any serious back pressure on my HHG and the seal has not failed so far. Perhaps that was part of the equation. I would always close the valve on the output side of the pump before shutting off the pump when I do my water changes. I will now shut the valve after i turn off the pump and see if it stays dry. I attached a pic of the HHG installation.

[ostrow]

Well I have not put any serious back pressure on my HHG and the seal has not failed so far. Perhaps that was part of the equation. I would always close the valve on the output side of the pump before shutting off the pump when I do my water changes. I will now shut the valve after i turn off the pump and see if it stays dry. I attached a pic of the HHG installation.

Always, always, 1) power off; 2) close valve.

But, you will replace the Reeflo seal at least every 18 months if not more.

[wazel]

I would be VERY happy to get 12 months !! I have a second HHG as a backup. I can swap pumps in less than 5 minutes, so rotating them once a year would be a wonderful development compared to all the grief up to this point.

[sean2sean]

I hope I won't have this issue when installing my hammerhead/barracuda hybrid pump....

[Loganutah]

I have had the same problems! Leaky HH pumps, had seal replaced once, then they sent new pump second time, I received the pump 2 days ago and it has started to leak from shaft seal....... immediately cleaned and reassembled pump, added some silicone grease where the ceramic bearing slides into the impeller. does it madder what side of the ceramic ring faces out? one side has a groove in it.?

What seal are you getting to work the grainger one?
http://www.grainger.com/Grainger/PAC-SEAL-Mechanical-Pump-Seal-Type-68-without-1R318 ?

[ostrow]

The orientation of the ring does matter. There is a video I believe on the reeflo website for how to replace the seal. I don't think you are supposed to use any grease, just water, so that may have made things worse Loganutah.

[Loganutah]

Still leaking..... I am experimenting with some RTV sealant between the impeller ceramic and the graphite seal....(fully cured prior to water contact). I will let you know if that works. i have 2 of these pumps laying around and want to find a solution.... I put just a small amount on cleaned surfaces and tightened it down, let cure 3 days... i will let you know if it leaks........ so far so good.
i suspect the issue is where the graphite seal contacts the ceramic?:deadhorse:

[tkeracer619]

So have you ever changed the bearings like I said 3 years ago?

[wazel]

I am not sure who you are asking about changing the bearings.... but changing the bearings would require sending the pump back to Reeflo. They replaced the whole motor on my backup HHG and it started leaking after 5 days. And I must say whoever installed the shaft seal on that repair did a horrible job ! The seal seat was not even seated completely in the bracket. I have spent half of what it cost for the pump in shipping charges sending both of mine back and forth to Reeflo. The latest seal I installed (Pac Seal 1R318) failed after 22 days. I'm putting the Iwaki back online for the winter. The extra heat it adds keeps my heater off during the winter months. In the spring I will try the REAL silicon carbide seal from Grainger (Dayton 3ACF7) for one last experiment, after that I have no options left.

[droth335]

I have a reeflo hammerhead as well - actually on the 2nd one as the first one leaked - even after replacing the seal. I doubt I will ever purchase another one of their pumps...but it doesn't seem there are a lot of better options out there for a high pressure pump. Crazy.

[Bob Nell]

I had similar problem. Decided to use in sump Sicce high flow. Works great little heat similar flow. Much more reliable.

[Nanook]

I replace seals on my Hammerhead, Barracuda and Dart pumps when they start to leak...usually some rusty, salty crusties found down under the pump. I have had seals last for 2 years and some for 1 year...I do use clear silicone to seal around the metal part to the plastic, but I just use water on the ceramic part per the instructions. I am satisfied with the pumps as they move a lot of water for not a lot of electricity.

[wazel]

Hello again all,

US Seal PS-1905 is the fix.

It is a Silicon Carbide seal made for harsh environments.
If the part of the seal that fits in the impeller is WHITE you do NOT
have a Silicon Carbide Seal.

When the one I ordered showed up is was clearly of superior quality than the crap seals I have installed for the past 4 years. The part of the seal that fits into the impeller is a very dark gray. I got mine from Sunplay_dot_Com

If you need to get one just Google "US Seal PS-1905" its about $40.00

[pja24]

Hello again all,

US Seal PS-1905 is the fix.

It is a Silicon Carbide seal made for harsh environments.
If the part of the seal that fits in the impeller is WHITE you do NOT
have a Silicon Carbide Seal.

When the one I ordered showed up is was clearly of superior quality than the crap seals I have installed for the past 4 years. The part of the seal that fits into the impeller is a very dark gray. I got mine from Sunplay_dot_Com

If you need to get one just Google "US Seal PS-1905" its about $40.00

You wouldn't happen to know which seal part number for dart/snapper hybrid? Would love to have backup when needed. Thanks

[jrpark22000]

You wouldn't happen to know which seal part number for dart/snapper hybrid? Would love to have backup when needed. Thanks

I did the research on that in another thread back in 2012.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showpost.php?p=19880415&postcount=14

[AcroporAddict]

I cannot fault Reeflo for their CS, but you should not have to replace seals every 12-14 months on these HH Hybrid pumps. I bought a new one when I set up my 465 gallon, and the seal was broken. Got a replacement seal from Reeflo while they shipped me a replacement pump,. I fixed it, then bought the one I just fixed as a refurb and saved the replacement pump as a backup. So the seal I replaced started leaking again after 14 months. I had the output ballvalved down and had used the lower flow Barracuda impeller as well, and frankly I am sick of the maintenance these pumps require. Return pumps should not require this level of maintenance.

I owned and used PanWorld pumps for years before buying the HH Hybrid and never had one fail. I bought the pump in the first place when I upgraded to a 465 gallon tank, and Reeflo seemed to be the pump of choice.

My 155 gallon custom sump was drilled for the HH hybrid, of course, so I was reluctant to switch to a different pump, but when I tried to replace the newly leaking seal that had been broken when new, I was totally unable to remove the stupid Barracuda impeller to get to the broken seal! Even my LFS with two guys working on it couldn't get it off, so I can only guess the impeller net is bound to the shaft now.

Anyways, I finally bit the bullet and bought an Iwaki 1/4 horse 70 RLT, and I am so glad I did. I had to modify my plumbing to fit it, and now I have the still working backup HH hybrid as a backup and the Iwaki primary. Great match to my system. I can now run the Iwaki full open, and the flow is a little more than I had on the HH Hybrid ballvalved back, and also run my peripherals. Looking forward to not having to replace seals on this Iwaki. My plumbing is now able to fit either the Iwaki or the HH Hybrid, although I doubt I'll have to use the Reeflo.

If I had realized what a pain ownership and use of the HH was, I would have just bought an Iwaki in the first place

[Robby2782]

This thread just saved me a lot of headache. I was going to purchase a reeflo super dart hybrid, but I think I'm going to go with Iwaki instead.

[echoreef]

I am having a nightmare with my new Reeflo Super Dart/Snapper gold on my new setup. Multiple leaks since putting the pump into place. I was send new parts and those leaked as well for different reasons. On top of that there is this loud clattering noise from the motor. How can this happen on a new pump. It's been nothing but trouble from the beginning. I wish there were alternatives.

[AcroporAddict]

What I don't understand is how can there be so many people praising these pumps and so many people with leaking seals and other quality issues?

The only thing I think these pumps have going for them is they are pretty energy efficient for the amount of water they move when compared to Iwaki types, and they also transfer less heat because of the impeller/volute being separate from the motor. But neither of these is worth the hassle of replacing leaking seals every year.

[Robby2782]

How much hotter does the iwaki get? I'm trying to stay on topic here, but just curious.

I see on Marine Depot where Reeflo get's tons of high marks, but there's a few where someone guarantees they'll leak.

If the carbide seal was installed in the very beginning would that keep the reeflo from ever leaking?

[Triton_Z]

It's a trade-off. If you cannot tolerate any leaks or this pump is installed in a location where service is difficult, don't use a Reeflo direct drive style centrifugal pump for the application.

Most of the Reeflo pumps use a direct drive pump impeller and housing with a mechanical seal. This seal can and will leak over the normal course of the service life of this pump (3-5 years I think would be good). I have had great service life out of a Reeflo Dart pump (3 years so far), but it's well ventilated and not throttled. This is also a FOWLR tank and there is no real presence of calcium deposits (like what you would expect in a reef tank). I choose this pump due to the installed location of the pump being easily accessible, leaks can be tolerated when they start, and wanted the most flow for my power input.

The Iwaki pump is a mag drive style pump and is seal-less. With the exception of an oring, there are really no other places for the pump to leak. You will likely experience no leaks on this pump during the normal life of the pump, however the power input for the same flow will likely be higher. Heat transfer from the pump end will be higher, but its just a matter of whether you can manage the additional heat.

I'd say for most people's applications, the Iwaki, PanWorld, or Bluelines magdrives would be the most appropriate choice. I still have a Iwaki pump from the 1990s and it doesnt leak :D

Again, just size up your application and use the right pump for the job.

Thanks for all those who have shared their experiences on replacement mechanical seals for these pumps. I will keep the notes and hopefully use them when I have to rebuild this Dart.

[AcroporAddict]

It's a trade-off. If you cannot tolerate any leaks or this pump is installed in a location where service is difficult, don't use a Reeflo direct drive style centrifugal pump for the application.

Most of the Reeflo pumps use a direct drive pump impeller and housing with a mechanical seal. This seal can and will leak over the normal course of the service life of this pump (3-5 years I think would be good). I have had great service life out of a Reeflo Dart pump (3 years so far), but it's well ventilated and not throttled. This is also a FOWLR tank and there is no real presence of calcium deposits (like what you would expect in a reef tank). I choose this pump due to the installed location of the pump being easily accessible, leaks can be tolerated when they start, and wanted the most flow for my power input.

The Iwaki pump is a mag drive style pump and is seal-less. With the exception of an oring, there are really no other places for the pump to leak. You will likely experience no leaks on this pump during the normal life of the pump, however the power input for the same flow will likely be higher. Heat transfer from the pump end will be higher, but its just a matter of whether you can manage the additional heat.

I'd say for most people's applications, the Iwaki, PanWorld, or Bluelines magdrives would be the most appropriate choice. I still have a Iwaki pump from the 1990s and it doesnt leak :D

Again, just size up your application and use the right pump for the job.

Thanks for all those who have shared their experiences on replacement mechanical seals for these pumps. I will keep the notes and hopefully use them when I have to rebuild this Dart.

Dan,
I am glad you have had 3 years of service so far, but that is definitely not my experience. If throttling back HH pump causes the seals to fail prematurely, that should be advertised, and would have stopped me from buying one in the first place.

I would be happy with three years of service, but 12 months between leaks sucks, and is not worth the trouble.

Again, Reeflo CS is good, but the pumps need better OE seals.

[AcroporAddict]

How much hotter does the iwaki get? I'm trying to stay on topic here, but just curious.

I see on Marine Depot where Reeflo get's tons of high marks, but there's a few where someone guarantees they'll leak.

If the carbide seal was installed in the very beginning would that keep the reeflo from ever leaking?

I don't think the heat transfer is a big issue. I haven't seen the temp in my 465any higher after switching to the Iwaki 70, but there is more heat transfer in an Iwaki/Pan World type pump than a Reeflo because of the design.

[caolewis]

Hello again all,

US Seal PS-1905 is the fix.

It is a Silicon Carbide seal made for harsh environments.
If the part of the seal that fits in the impeller is WHITE you do NOT
have a Silicon Carbide Seal.

When the one I ordered showed up is was clearly of superior quality than the crap seals I have installed for the past 4 years. The part of the seal that fits into the impeller is a very dark gray. I got mine from Sunplay_dot_Com

If you need to get one just Google "US Seal PS-1905" its about $40.00

Hi, any update on your pump leaking? I have similar issue after trying two seal kits sent from reeflow. I am about to try out US Seal PS-1905, but like to check on how well that one works.

[ostrow]

Yes an update now that time has passed would be great before ordering!

[caolewis]

Yes an update now that time has passed would be great before ordering!

Can Anyone send private message to "wazel" for the update on here please? I am newbie and it won't allow me until I have 10+ posts. I have similar symptom and need it a cure fast for this damn Barracuda Reeflo pump leaking.

[wazel]

Hello all,

I am happy to report my HHG is running without a single drop of water leaking from anywhere. I must say it is amazing what the right part can do to make you love a machine again. The Silicon Carbide seal did the trick. Also a quick install tip, coat the steel cup that fits into the bracket with a heavy coating of Silicon Plumbers Grease. After you press the cup into the bracket carefully wipe away the extra grease that squishes out on both sides. The half of the seal that goes in the impeller does not need grease. I'm glad I could help you all !

[wazel]

PS-1905 U.S. Seal SCS Shaft Seal Assembly

U.S. Seal PS-1905 Silicon Carbide Seal for your most demanding pool, hot tub and spa applications.

Features:
Silicon Carbide, Viton & Stainless Steel
Superior Abrasion, Corrosion & Chemical Resistance
More forgiving when pump is run dry or accidentally loses prime
Compatible with all pool and spa chemicals
Best choice for Salt / Bromine Generator and ozonator applications

Description:
5/8" Shaft
Silicon Carbide, Viton & Stainless Steel
For your Most Demanding Applications

[wazel]

Any of you other guys having any results with this seal?

[ostrow]

I ordered and received one. Looks right. When the Reeflo one fails I will install and report.

[wazel]

Just an update.

Still running dry ! :dance:

[AcroporAddict]

Just an update.

Still running dry ! :dance:

That is great....Reeflo should make this improved seal an OE part, even if it raises prices a bit.

[david_lee]

i had a month old reeflo barracuda/hammerhead gold seal leaked and replaced it with the one above, its been running over 6 months without any leak..

[tkeracer619]

I must be lucky. My dart is still leak free after 8 years of continuous service!

Wonder if this seal fits my pump or if they have a comparable one.

[AcroporAddict]

I must be lucky. My dart is still leak free after 8 years of continuous service!

Wonder if this seal fits my pump or if they have a comparable one.
I'd say you have one of those "if it ain't broke........" situations, hehehe!

[slief]

I must be lucky. My dart is still leak free after 8 years of continuous service!

Wonder if this seal fits my pump or if they have a comparable one.

I've got 3 years on my Dart Gold and 3 years on my Hammerhead Gold with no leaks. Both are running the original seals, knock on wood. I need to remember this thread though just in case I need some new seals. I actually have spare factory seals on hand but I got those when I got my new pumps and haven't needed them. I also keep a set of spare pumps too just in case of an emergency.

[ostrow]

I've got 3 years on my Dart Gold and 3 years on my Hammerhead Gold with no leaks. Both are running the original seals, knock on wood. I need to remember this thread though just in case I need some new seals. I actually have spare factory seals on hand but I got those when I got my new pumps and haven't needed them. I also keep a set of spare pumps too just in case of an emergency.

You are ridiculously lucky.

Or running fw!

[slief]

You are ridiculously lucky.

Or running fw!

I have enough (several) friends running Reeflo Darts and other Reeflo pumps without regular seal failures to know that I am not as lucky as you think. The internet always seems to skew statistics because people automatically turn to the forums when they have an issue. How often is that that we see threads like "My Reeflo Works Great!" or "My Iwaki Works Great"? Thousands of these pumps are sold annually and more often than not, the only time people speak up online are those who have issue.

That said, I've run Little Giants, Iwaki's, Silent One's, Eheims and almost every other pump you could think of. I know from experience over the last 25 plus years what to expect. I used to run several high flow Lim "Wave" pond pumps with modified salt water seals. I ran them for more than 15 years and was prepared to swap pumps when the seals started leaking every few years. It's one of those things that goes with the territory. I kept spare pumps so I could rebuild the seals at my leisure. They are very similar to the Reeflo pumps which are basically a modified upgraded Sequence pump. The Wave Pumps ran a Baldor motor like the Reeflo's.

These big Baldor type motors don't hold seals as well as a conventional pump like an Iwaki or Little Giant whose seals last indefinitely. Unlike a little giant or Iwaki whose motor is more compact and purpose built, the Baldor type motors use spans all kinds of applications of which pumps are only one. I can only assume that the run out on the motor shaft of these larger pumps is more sloppy than motor designed specifically for pump use. That or the shaft material is more porous or imperfect causing seals to wear out sooner. At the end of the day, I know from experience going into these pumps that having spare seals on hand is important. I bought seals when I bought my first Reeflo several years ago.

As I said, I also keep spare pumps on hand in addition to seals but that's simply because if I have a hardware issue, I want to be able to resolve it in 5 minutes or less. My pumps are plumbed with double union ball valves and my spares and plumbed with fittings and ready to drop into service. Unplug a pump, shut a pair of valves twist a couple unions and pull it out and drop the new one in it's place. The best thing about these pumps besides efficiency, noise level etc is that the only thing that really fails is a simple to replace cheap seal.

Bottom line is that these larger pumps will need seals more frequently but for the most part, they are pretty reliable. The motors are bulletproof and the pumps are insanely efficient as far as Watt's per GPH. They also don't transfer much heat which can save money on cooling and are VERY quiet. Are they perfect??? No but are they worth the occasional seal replacement which is really a simple DIY process?? I'd say so from my experience. Given what we seem to know from this thread about alternative seals, I'd say that should make seal replacement a bit more comforting for those who are really worried.

[ostrow]

I wish it were that clean.

I've used several of these for years because of the efficiency and quiet, and low heat.

But the seals on every single one have been weak (less than 18 months), and when they leak, if you don't catch it right away, bye-bye bearings. Top it off with, ahem, inconsistent service and support, well...

Mostly its the heat issue that keeps me using them, and now these seals.

Yes, keep spare seals and backup pumps already plumbed to quickly swap! Only way to fly!

[shaginwagon13]

Honestly, Chris at Reeflo is awesome and as a company they have amazing customer service.

They have always gone above and beyond to help, fix or replace anything that was not working as intended with no hassles or arguments.

I'm glad you got your pump fixed. I have both a Dart and Hammerhead and I would never buy another brand of pump simply because of how well they take care of their customers. I know the seals leak which can be an issue if not caught right away especially if the leak is on wood flooring. As a maintenance guide, I replace my seals every year.

As a note, the O-ring should be checked for damage and lubricated with a silicone lubricant.

[ostrow]

Maybe he went through a bad period, then. Can happen to anyone.

[dja1980]

This is great information, as I'm in the process of replacing seals on 2 Darts after about 4 years of continuous use. Has anyone found a Silicon Carbide replacement for the Dart? The link in post #47 only references standard carbon from Grainger. I was just getting ready to order some seals directly from ReeFlo, but I'd rather order the higher-quality replacements mentioned here if they are available for the Dart.

[Crusty Old Shellback]

Guess I'll chime in here. I've been running a Hammerhead, barracuda and dart pumps for almost 8 years with no issues. My dart has a very slight leak, maybe a drip an hour or so. Nothing that I've ever worried about. The dart has actually up until 6 months ago, been in continous service for almost 10 years.

I picked up a trident III at FRAG last year to replace the dart as it was getting noisey. I wrote up a review on the Trident in this forum. Needless to say, I'm getting my dart rebuilt to quite it down some. ;).

[jda]

I have had 11 of their pumps. Not a single one ever lasted more than 2 years without needing something - seals, bearings, motors. I imagine that I am unlucky. Other companies have seals figured out - in another thread, Reeflo blamed the seal issues on "UPS Brutes," but I got a few pumps locally that probably were handled pretty well. I want to love them since they are somewhat local.

[jgalen0025]

I have had 11 of their pumps. Not a single one ever lasted more than 2 years without needing something - seals, bearings, motors. I imagine that I am unlucky. Other companies have seals figured out - in another thread, Reeflo blamed the seal issues on "UPS Brutes," but I got a few pumps locally that probably were handled pretty well. I want to love them since they are somewhat local.

Seems that it is statistically unlikely that you were unlikely 11 times?

[sean2sean]

my hammerhead has been running for about a year and without any issues.

[ostrow]

Seems that it is statistically unlikely that you were unlikely 11 times?

It is the norm.

[sean2sean]

Looks like I may have to start shopping for a replacement pump....

[Electrobes]

This thread is definitely interesting. I bought a Dart/Snapper Hybrid (It was never used, but had been in the original box for 1+ years or something). After installing it, with all valves full throttle it worked fine for about a month, and checking around about a week ago I see quite a bit of salt creep, and sure enough.. it has a minor leak.

I am seriously debating getting an Iwaki 100RLT. The price hurts, but the wattage is a bit of an eye opener as well. I mean it's more than double the Reeflo, and still puts out less flow. I have a seal kit, but this thread has me worried about my success with it.

Has it been determined where I could get the the silicon carbide seal for a Dart/Snapper hybrid pump? I honestly would like to try it before seriously considering a new pump.

[dja1980]

Has it been determined where I could get the the silicon carbide seal for a Dart/Snapper hybrid pump? I honestly would like to try it before seriously considering a new pump.
I think there are several of us wanting to find the answer to that question!

[ostrow]

I think there are several of us wanting to find the answer to that question!

It was posted earlier in this thread somewhere. In the first page or second. Read through from the top.

[dja1980]

It was posted earlier in this thread somewhere. In the first page or second. Read through from the top.
The only Silicon Carbide seal posted here is for the Hammerhead. The Dart/Snapper seal referenced in post #47 is a standard carbon seal. I don't believe a Silicon Carbide Dart/Snapper seal has been found yet.

[ostrow]

That may well be the case. If so, then you will have to take the risk like Wazel and experiment!

But do a search first to see if someone else already tried that in another thread....

[IRISSERVICE]

any updates on your seal Wazel is the US Seal PS-1905 holding up...

[ostrow]

Has anyone else tried it? How long does this seal last?

[Aqualund]

tagging

[yacn]

I have had great luck with Dolphin pumps. Mine is 10 years old and still running. Never a leaky seal. They don't make my model anymore....Amp Master model 4000/3000 ..... they have similar models and better seals than what was available when I bought mine....get the type 3 seal. Check out their service guarantee 10 yrs vs reeflo 5 yrs

http://www.dolphinpumps.com/

[yacn]

if replacing seals....silicone carbide seals are way to go for reef environment...but it's costs a lot more than standard seals

Another thing to consider if DIY replacing seals.... be sure to use a small bead of RTV Silicone around the outer seal when installing.

Dolphin claims to use a proprietory RTV type silicone when installing their pump seal ...maybe that's why mine lasted so long

[padova335i]

so... sure enough mine has been leaking for some time.. but just salt creep... now its leaking...
any updates w the carbon seals? I would like to order asap..

also I have the hammerhead hybrid.. I assume its the same as the hammerhead gold?

thank you

[ostrow]

Use it with confidence.

[sean2sean]

I end up selling my reeflo pumps and went with Iwaki pumps. Got tired of failed seals.

[jda]

I do not know if ReeFlo has those seals available. In any case, either order two sets of seals, for this time and next time, or just get an AmpMaster. New seals are a way of life with ReeFlo/Sequence stuff.

[chamjack]

I’ve had good luck with this seal, U.S. Seal PS-1905 Silicon Carbide Seal. Hasn’t leaked since I put it in. I think it’s going on two years now. I noticed the seal doubled in price though since I bought one.

[padova335i]

thanks everyone... I appreciate everyones help!! I'll be ordering that seal and trying it out.. hate these headaches.. I'll give an update

[padova335i]

Ordered that carbon one you all suggested.. should I be changing out the large o ring too or anything else? the leak im pretty sure is just the seal.

[padova335i]

so took me like 10 hrs.. between buying a strap wrench and running around...

i started it up and water was leaking all over.. the shaft was way too corroded and now i just emailed them.. I played the game of turning my pump on and off this week.. now its been off since 8am and the tunzes are going in about 400 gallons...

hopefully i can get a pump soon.. the side of the sump where the pump hooks up to has a slow drip as well.. what perfect timing!

:sad2:

[padova335i]

I emailed reefflo on saturday, no returned email or call yet..

pump i managed to get working but its leakinmg a little form gasket area now.. the shaft is garbage now... this really ruined my week... and created other issues...

If I had a finished basement which I plan on doing, I dont see how you could ever take the chance w this pump...

are the newer ones running better or same system...

which iwaki pump do you replace the hammerhead gold with?

[ostrow]

I emailed reefflo on saturday, no returned email or call yet..

pump i managed to get working but its leakinmg a little form gasket area now.. the shaft is garbage now... this really ruined my week... and created other issues...

If I had a finished basement which I plan on doing, I dont see how you could ever take the chance w this pump...

are the newer ones running better or same system...

which iwaki pump do you replace the hammerhead gold with?

They are on the west coast. Did you email the emergency address?

The Gold has a 5-yr warranty. They will fix or replace. When it comes back swap their seal for the carbon one.

Depending on your setup the Iwaki would be the 100 or possibly the 70 if not going upstairs.

[Bob Nell]

I had a similar experience, with a finished lower level, which is why I went to an internal return.

[padova335i]

any updates on the the seals?

just bumping this thread.. Im ordering another seal for my new pump as my old pump is "ok" for emergencies, but i dont trust it.. so new gold pump is going in... this old pump was leaking around the gasket and stopped so it bought me some time.. im making a few plumbing changes so the new pump will be going in.

my question is do these new pumps still require the carbon seal? or is it a better design now?

i know the seals (the stock ones) are considered normal maintenance but id rather have it work for many years..

basically replace the seal w the carbon one and use some silicone as well?
thank you!

[ostrow]

My new one about 6mls ago didn't have a different seal. I removed it and replaced with wazel's. Been solid.

[caolewis]

any updates on the the seals?

just bumping this thread.. Im ordering another seal for my new pump as my old pump is "ok" for emergencies, but i dont trust it.. so new gold pump is going in... this old pump was leaking around the gasket and stopped so it bought me some time.. im making a few plumbing changes so the new pump will be going in.

my question is do these new pumps still require the carbon seal? or is it a better design now?

i know the seals (the stock ones) are considered normal maintenance but id rather have it work for many years..

basically replace the seal w the carbon one and use some silicone as well?
thank you!

I placed PS-1905 $40 seal in 2014. It has been running straight solid without a leak since.

[fishyguy7]

Been running the silicone carbide seal for almost 18 months and still zero leaks.

[chamjack]

No drips from mine yet either. In year three now:bounce2:

[tkeracer619]

I'm using the US Seal kit and have been leak free for a while. They're great seals.

[padova335i]

thanks everyone! mine is still sitting,, im so lazy... installing seal and new pump soon along w new plumbing,,

silicone as well w seal correct?

[padova335i]

Hey guys... well I got my flame suit on....

I redid some plumbing today and decided not to replace the seal on my new reef head gold pump.. The thing is a monster... Figured i'll see how long it lasts. I do have the carbon seal too.. Just didnt feel like messing w the brand new pump, hopefully it will last five years...

my other pump started getting stuck and wouldn't always work.. So i fixed a broken check valve, put another ball valve in and cleaned up two more lines.

[ostrow]

Hey guys... well I got my flame suit on....

I redid some plumbing today and decided not to replace the seal on my new reef head gold pump.. The thing is a monster... Figured i'll see how long it lasts. I do have the carbon seal too.. Just didnt feel like messing w the brand new pump, hopefully it will last five years...

my other pump started getting stuck and wouldn't always work.. So i fixed a broken check valve, put another ball valve in and cleaned up two more lines.

Check it often. Will be lucky to get 18mos. My carbon seal is now 2yrs and rock solid.

[ostrow]

When you put the impellar back on, how tight do you tighten it?

[mirlush]

I've got three Reeflo H/B Gold pumps. Have to replace seals/pumps each year. Customer support started saying I've got air in the system: pumps are on closed loops, in and out in the water, no air bubbles. Wish their would be a pump where seal/ shaft would not corrode. Last time I've sanded rust on two shafts and painted them with epoxy paint. Those two have been running for over a year now. Keeping fingers crossed.

[chamjack]

No drips from mine yet either. In year three now:bounce2:

Year 4 and still no leaks since switching to the US Seal.:celeb1:

[ostrow]

I've got three Reeflo H/B Gold pumps. Have to replace seals/pumps each year. Customer support started saying I've got air in the system: pumps are on closed loops, in and out in the water, no air bubbles. Wish their would be a pump where seal/ shaft would not corrode. Last time I've sanded rust on two shafts and painted them with epoxy paint. Those two have been running for over a year now. Keeping fingers crossed.

Even with the carbon seals from this thread??

I've had zero issues.