So you want to buy a shark? (Shark primer)

[alprazo]

Sharks in the home aquaria is nothing new. I bought my first in 1992. It was a common epaulette and I made every mistake with the poor gal. Despite that, I learned that these are resilient animals but deserve a different type of care than your average predatory fish.

Before deciding on species and tank size there are several items that are a must for keeping them. First is a good refractometer. Many, like horns sharks, are intolerant of low salinities, so a top off system is also a good thing to have. Second is temperature control. Heaters need cages since sharks are unable to feel heat in their skin and will suffer burns from direct contact as they lie on the heater. Many sharks that are seen in the trade are subtropical or even from temperate waters and will require a chiller. Also have a redundant system and/or alarms with both heaters and pumps. A big skimmer is also a must. Though most sharks don't eat daily, the meals are large and a lot of waste is produced. For this reason the filtration needs to be oversize. Live rock in the tank will not cut it. Sand filters and bead filters are most commonly used. Last, some form of nitrate removal should implemented. You can put away the halides or LEDs because they are not needed.

For habitat - benthic or ground sharks require a sand bed and enjoy shelter in the form of live rock or boulders. I recommend 2-3 inches of sand because many like to sift through it looking for food. Screens or tank lids are important to keep them from climbing out. Pump intakes need screens as well as duplication to prevent suction injuries. For swimming sharks, round shaped tanks without corners, minimal rock work, and flush pipes inside the pool will help prevent injuries. Many use black markers on the walls to prevent rubbing and eye injuries and again a screen to prevent jumping is a must. The last thing that all sharks need is iodine supplementation. This is usually done in vitamin form and Mazuri appears to monopolize the market.

The best way is to determine what species you want and create a system for it. That senario almost never occurs and the tank comes first. Now we are trying to find a shark to fit it.

ORV sharks or sharks that breath by swimming are uncommon in the home aquaria with one exception; the black tip reef shark. Though these sharks are readily available and found in 300 gals in many LFS they have no place in a square tank. They belong in a swimming pool with a good 16 foot diameter. Bonnetheads also show up from time to time. Again, these need plenty of space, are delicate animals, are susceptible to untreatable fungal infections and require frequent feelings.

The smooth hounds and white tipped reef sharks have the ability rest on the bottom. These have the appearance of an ORV and for that reason are attractive to many shark owners. These also get big, spend a good amount of time swimming and really have the same tank size requirements as the ORVs mentioned above.

Bullhead or horns sharks are another group that are often available. California horns, Japanese horns, crested bullheads, port Jacksons, and zebra horns are the most commonly encountered. These all are moderate sized sharks reaching a length of 4 ft. They are very hardy, temperate to sub tropical temperatures and breed in captivity. The exception is the Zebra horn. This shark is the most difficult to keep of the group. The Mexican horn is a smaller species with a flattened head and desirable to people with smaller tanks in mind but is less commonly seen.

Wobbegongs are another species that can be found in your LFS. Some species get huge reaching 9 ft and most often wobbies are misidentified. They are voracious eaters, inhaling large fish tankmates and even similar sized sharks. Though they have beautiful patterns on their skin but buyer beware with these. They are unpredictable, will bite you and are best housed alone.

Probably the most encountered shark is the brown banded carpet shark, often mislabeled as cat shark. Their eggs are frequently offered too. Though available and inexpensive, I believe that they are a poor choice for most due to their adult size. There are other bamboos available such as the Arabian and Gray that reach a more manageable size and are just as hardy. The hasslet's shark has beautiful juvenile patterning and a desirable price. This shark however has a notoriously poor track record in captivity and is best avoided.

The cat sharks are a diverse group. The cold water cats are small and perfect for large home aquaria but need temps in the 50s to 60s to thrive. Chain, izu and cloudy cats are all available tank bred and should do well in a 240 gal. The tropical cats such as the coral, marbled and Bali are also good choices but grow larger and are best housed in a round tank. These are hardy, attractive, and affordable. They are all nocturnal like most benthic sharks so you are unlikely to observe them during the day.

Probably the best species for the square tank home aquaria is the Papua New Guinea Epaulette. The species are walking sharks, are used to rock work and able to navigate small spaces. They are extremely hardy, tolerate temporary shifts in water quality, low oxygen saturation and brief periods out of water. In addition to the smaller PNG species, the speckled epaulette is attractive and maxes out around 30 inches. The common or Australian epaulette is the largest of the genus available and will reach 3 ft. All are know to breed readily in captivity. I have a pair of 20 inch PNGs breeding in a 300 gallon stock tank. They have appeared to reach their maximum size.

Banded hound sharks, short tail nurse sharks, blind sharks, are all relative new species to the aquarium trade and something to consider for the enthusiast.

Leopards and nurse sharks should be species of the past. The leopard is now listed under the Lacey act and possessing a shark under 36 inches will draw stiff penalties. The nurse shark is now listed o as a large costal shark and needs to be 54 inches to keep, which is a heavy one. Small pups possibly come in from Mexico but are best left in the ocean. They get rather large and love to consume food. They will eat you out of house and home.

Feel free to ask questions, but I hope that this primer gets you started if considering buying a shark.

[Jsamper]

:thumbsup:

[randomfishguy85]

this should be made a sticky

[CuttleKid]

Alprazo, I have a few questions. I am in my sophomore year in college, but when I buy my forever home, I want to have a large shark and ray pond in my basement. My questions are

1. Are ponds more suitable for sharks and rays?
2. Can you mix different types of sharks, such as epaulettes, catsharks, bamboos together?
3. What stingrays would be good to mix with the above sharks? (My favorite ray is the yellow stingray). Is that a good choice?
4. Is there a temperature that would be suitable to keep tropical and sub tropical species together? (like horn shark and epaulette, or fiddler stingray and yellow sting ray?)

Thanks

James

[alprazo]

James,

I am going to go in reverse order.

http://www.sea-temperature.com/ is a great site to determine the habitat of your shark. Keep in mind that these are surface temps and some sharks, depending on location will live at different depths. For instance the Zebra horn shark has a wide range from Japan to Australia. In Japan, it can be found in the shallows. Off Northern Australia it is found at depths of 50 meters plus. So yes, depending on the species you may be able to find an optimal temperature.

Sharks and rays usually do well together. Certain rays such as the Atlantic can become quite aggressive feeders and out compete the slower sharks for food. It is something to keep in mind.

Most ground sharks like the ones listed above usually do quite well together. Selecting fish to add to the shark tank takes significantly more time and consideration.

In my opinion, yes, ponds are preferable. They allow for more square footage and rounded corners. Stock tanks such as this one (http://www.tractorsupply.com/american-farmland-reg-round-tank-8-x-2-in-plastic-2177188) are commonly used. The downside is that you now view the shark from the surface, which is suboptimal. Viewing panels can be incorporated into the pool but this does increase the chance of leakage and disaster.

[Holyhands22]

I really want to do a shark tank. I was interested in the banded cat doing a pair what are good tank mates and how can u create the ideal habitat in your house?

[alprazo]

The species you are talking about is a carpet shark and not a cat. Brown banded bamboo shark to be specific. Ideally you would have a minimum of an 8ft diameter tub similar to the link above. One to two inches of sand and some large live rock boulders for them to hide. Temp would be 78-82 degrees. Maturity is reached around 3 years and expect your sharks to be about 2 feet. They probably will not get much more than 36 inches in captivity.

Discussing telost tankmates is like saying " what angel can I put in my reef? ". Some individuals will be fine, others of the same species will not. There is no simple answer. Even the safest fish can out compete your sharks for food. The best answer is to put your fish in another tank.

[jjk_reef00]

Since people are going to be asking about rays:
1.) The easiest ray is the california round ray or cortez ray. The blue spotted ray is very difficult to keep and IMO should not be kept unless you have previous ray/shark keeping experience.
2.) The minimum size tank for a full grown ray should be 8' x 30" x 20" (LxWxH). Some will argue for smaller tanks but rays are extremely active and should be provided ample swimming space similar to large tangs. My california round ray was easily as active as my 9" Naso tang.
3.) Heavy filtration is a must as mentioned above. My ray ate way more than any other fish I've ever owned I would feed him 2 times a day. Feed fresh seafood like scallops, shrimp squid, along with any other frozen foods that are available. Just like fish, a varied diet helps keep them stay healthy.
4.) Just like sharks, a minimum of 3" fine grain sand is required. Rays will bury themselves in the sand at night and you can bury the food in the sand for them to dig it out. Rays can also be hand fed and become very tame.

[Dale Cooper]

alprazo, I love the baby in your avatar.

[alprazo]

Thx, the pic is of a Ward's Wobbegong aka Northern Wobbegong. Lost her to a pump intake when the fitting was knocked off.

[heathercking]

I was curious if you've ever experienced a shark lay eggs? if not then just reply to me w/ a simple "no", lol ;) If you have then I wanted to know what her behavior was like prior to the 1st time she laid an egg.

We have a female 30" banded cat shark w/ a swollen belly and she's hasn't had much of an appetite. She also hasn't been swimming much. We've had her (and the 300 gal) for 2 years and she was already 2' when we got her. She has always been perfectly healthy, active and even super sweet. Everything else in the tank is acting fine, including our cortez ray. All of the levels are okay. We just added a larger skimmer, sump and a PhosBan 150 - we did all of this to try to improve water quality even more for her... after she started acting different.

Just want to find out the behavior or a "pregnant" shark so we can rule it out or keep it as a possibility. I know cat sharks will lay eggs and the male fertilizes the egg after the female lays it.

Also wanted to add, she has no red under her belly when the lights are on but when the lights are off her tummy and fins always turned a little pinkish in color - ever since we got her. Otherwise she had always eaten grew and acted great - eyes are perfectly clear as well.

I would love ANY input!

[alprazo]

Does she eat at all? I have and eppie that lays about 4 eggs a month. Other than being fat, she acts normal. Some sharks, like the short tail nurse shark will stop eating for several days and rest before depositing eggs. There is no such thing as a banded cat shark so my guess is that you have a brown banded carpet shark. I would not expect a dramatic change in behavior before dropping an egg, though I have never witnessed one lay an egg.

Bacterial infections, intentional blockages, over eating and malignancy can cause the symptoms you describe. Feel her belly. Is should be soft and uniform. If she feels bloated, full of air or tense, I would treat with antibiotics. If she is infected, the gill movements will be rapid and she will likely appear weak, not just tired.

As for eggs, a shark can lay infertile eggs like a chicken. They are fertilized before, in vivo, not after releasing them. The females can store sperm for possibly years.

Hope this helps and good luck.

[jacobzking]

Bacterial infections, intentional blockages, over eating and malignancy can cause the symptoms you describe. Feel her belly. Is should be soft and uniform. If she feels bloated, full of air or tense, I would treat with antibiotics. If she is infected, the gill movements will be rapid and she will likely appear weak, not just tired.

At the moment she does have rapid gill movement and feels bloated. How do you recommend treating her? Here's a video...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LvWy0iJMqXs

[alprazo]

From the video, I don't see anything glaring. It seems to startle, it eyes are reactive, respirations are not labored, it appears well fed and other than the sand covering it, there are no obvious abnormalities to the skin. I need to know more about the shark's behavior that is bothersome to you. Does it take food at all? How did it acted when you palpated its belly?

[jacobzking]

I picked her up in the water yesterday and tried to force her to swim. She didnt resist me moving her (I was gentle) but when I set her down she convulsed violently for a minute (after being set down, not an attempt to escape), almost catatonic. She still isn't swimming, she sort of moves around on the sand bottom in a snake like slither. She won't respond to food.

Earlier today I found her laying on her side, body was very stiff and strained. Shortly after my wife (heathercking) found her upside down on the substrate. The shark, Taffy, seemed like she was trying to get right side up, but couldn't (either didn't have the energy to or was to out of it to know how).

I've seen her sort of "convulse" several times.

PLEASE feel free to call me if you have a moment. 469-348-3171 I'll be up well past 1am CST. This is really taking a toll on me as well, I've been almost sleepless the last 6 days worrying about her. Reading as much as I can, constantly changing small amounts of water. Calling aquariums and vets for advice... and I'm just not getting answers that help me (or Taffy).

She just happen to roll over and show me her belly right now and it looks pretty bad. Normally her belly gets a little red at night but this looks worse than normal. HELP!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNWkYV1ESJM

the video makes the belly look way wore than it really does, its not quite as bad as it looks in the vid.

[alprazo]

If she is still alive, I would add antibiotics immediately. Preferably a intramuscular injection. If you do not have that available the oral route would be the next best bet and last would be bath.

Go to the elasmobranch husbandry manual http://www.elasmobranchhusbandry.org/ - I think it is chapter 29 - in there is a pharmacopoeia. What ever antibiotic that you have at home, look up the dose and give it to the shark. I posted a video on this board on how to tube feed a shark. The same concept applies to giving medicine.

That said, there are other things that could cause the neuralgic symptoms your shark is exhibiting. A vitamin deficiency would be a concern and supplementation is worth trying. Viral illness, difficult to treat, is another concern.

With the bloated belly - I would first think bacterial.

[jacobzking]

I did recently add a small mimic lemonpeel tang that I bought from Petco. Do you think maybe it brought in a disease? Her stomach looks pretty normal again (no red spots) but she is still breathing hard, not swimming, twitching around quite a bit and of course no appetite.

[jacobzking]

Also, I'm about to take her to a vet that services a large Aquarium here (lots of sharks and Rays). Anything to expect, or anything I should ask? Any precautions when transporting her? Lets say it is some sort of parasite and they give her something for it, wont it just be reintroduced when she's put back in the main tank?

[alprazo]

THat is wonderful that you have that service available to you. I personally would give Baytril 10 mg/kg IM to her so very curious to see what the vet recommends.

Keep her in the dark, lights out. Less stimulus to the CNS.

From experience, I have noticed that the red bellies often come from lack of movement due to either pressure on the belly from the sand bed or glass bottom. This seems to improve rapidly as the sharks become active at night and is usually resolved by the next AM only to occur again.


Love to her the feed back from your vet.

Good luck

[jacobzking]

I just got back from the vet. We did give her some b12 via injection. They also gave her a 20mg injection of beytril and 6 additional doses to give every other day. They took a stool sample and a gill sample and could not find anything out of the ordinary. She was very docile and did not resist at all to be handled, even out of the water for the gill biopsy. The vet said the chance of survival is minimal.

[jacobzking]

Recent vid of her behavior after returning from vet, shes "burping" or hiccuping...


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQoOP1OIEqY

[alprazo]

That is very interesting behavior. Sharks lack a diaphragm since thy don't have lungs which makes a hiccup impossible, though it looks identical. It is a muscle spasm, probably from intermittent firing, which is not a good sign and often means pending doom.

I think you will know by tomorrow if you shark is going to make it. I had one floating and rolling in the current wih no ability to swim before only to find him calm on the bottom 12 hrs later, after a baytril injection. Still have the guy.

Good luck and let me know.

[jacobzking]

Labored breathing but no more irregular movements. Shes just hanging out at the bottom at the moment.

[jacobzking]

She didn't make it through the night :(

[alprazo]

Sorry to hear. Was really hoping for different news. It is difficult to say what happened. My guess was bad food. Either had a preformed toxin from bacteria, such as staphyloccus food poisoning where a toxin is made and makes you sick. It is not an infection. The only treatment is supportive measures. It could have happened before the food was initially frozen. This is the one where you get sick several hours after eating. Or it could be from ingesting a pathogenic bacterium such as listeria. This can take days to weeks to develop, the causes CNS problems, convulsions along with the common GI issues.

I do not think it came in with the tang.

[alprazo]

Leopards and nurse sharks should be species of the past. The leopard is now listed under the Lacey act and possessing a shark under 36 inches will draw stiff penalties. The nurse shark is now listed o as a large costal shark and needs to be 54 inches to keep, which is a heavy one. Small pups possibly come in from Mexico but are best left in the ocean. They get rather large and love to consume food. They will eat you out of house and home.
.

As mentioned before, leave the nurse sharks in the ocean. 15 years and a half mil just isn't worth it.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y456/sharkvenom/128f877e4ca6e3d800859e812faad2f4_zpsaacfab47.jpg

[cmdrstoneey]

hello my name is ian and i have coral banded cat shark hatched from an egg eating 15 ghost shrimp a week seems to be doing will but what else can i feed him? and what is a goo place to find sharks for sale and what is a good recamendation for a shark tank?

[jacobzking]

Sorry to hear. Was really hoping for different news. It is difficult to say what happened. My guess was bad food. Either had a preformed toxin from bacteria, such as staphyloccus food poisoning where a toxin is made and makes you sick. It is not an infection. The only treatment is supportive measures. It could have happened before the food was initially frozen. This is the one where you get sick several hours after eating. Or it could be from ingesting a pathogenic bacterium such as listeria. This can take days to weeks to develop, the causes CNS problems, convulsions along with the common GI issues.

I do not think it came in with the tang.


Thanks for all of the follow ups and support. Thinking about selling the tank. Only reason I can see to have a 300 gallon is for a shark and not sure I want to try again. This girl was not just a "fish" but a family pet that we hand fed and loved.

Let me ask you about feeding habits... we would buy frozen silversides, krill, marine cuisine (cubes) and squid cubes. Every three to four days we would take a small container and put in a variety of food and let it thaw out. The shark would normally eat all of the silversides right away, but sometimes there would be a few leftover pieces that would sit in the food/water mixture in our fridge for a few days. Do you think that could have maybe accelerated or promoted harmful bacteria growth.

So basically, instead of thawing food every day for all of the fish, we would make a batch to last for 3-4 days.

[alprazo]

Would hate to see you give up on sharks. Many of them do have personalities, my short tails are like pufferfish and allow me to pick them up and hold them. One even spits at me on occasion.

As for the feeding, I don't see anything wrong with what you were doing. Sharks will eat from a carcass that was floating for weeks. I think it was probably food tainted before the initial freezing, but if you are only feeding food specifically for fish, then maybe it was a bacteria that grew while it was thawed. I almost lost one to a bad scallop from the supermarket and the shark was near death within a day of eating it.

Again a vitamin deficiency or viral illness could have also cause these symptoms too

[alprazo]

hello my name is ian and i have coral banded cat shark hatched from an egg eating 15 ghost shrimp a week seems to be doing will but what else can i feed him? and what is a goo place to find sharks for sale and what is a good recommendation for a shark tank?

Ian,

Not sure how big your coral cat is, but it will probably take frozen food. I do recommend adding a vitamin with iodine supplement if feeding frozen foods.. Depending on the size, they like squid, earthworms, krill, mysis, conch, table shrimp, and possibly fish. They tend to become more aggressive with feeding as they get around 7 inches. If it just hatched, try frozen mysis or worms.

As for finding sharks for sale. It all depends on what you are looking for. I do not know your tank size, but for the eppies, coral and marbled cats, gray and brown banded bamboos your LFS would likely be able to bring them in for you. I would consider LA DD a reputable online source and I have personally acquired some great, healthy specimens from them. You can even put in a request and they will often get it. You just have to be quick with purchasing it because it is first come first serve. I'm sure there are others. If you are looking into rare and cooler water species, PM me and I can pass on a couple of contacts.

[alprazo]

Not only do you have to know what you are buying when it comes to sharks, you must know where it is coming from and how the seller obtained it. Doesn't appear that ignorance is bliss.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y456/sharkvenom/f82fc2039fa72ee4f4bb9a5200769720_zpse28019f0.jpg

[wlyon]

Since this was brought up I've been wondering. I see people catching black tip pups all the time on rod and real, how much trouble would you get in if you kept them in an aquarium (large proper size aquarium of course)

My dream tank is about the size of the room, and once I finish college I plan on working in florida and was hoping to set up a biotope of only fish I could catch myself if possible which included 3 black tip reef sharks. In a tank much like your new build but with a large acrylic viewing window instead of just a top down view.

[alprazo]

It looks like they can be taken in Florida. At least for the moment. The have extremely high oxygen demands so a pool on the boat deck, would be a must. Getting them to your aquarium is Not an easy task.

http://m.myfwc.com/fishing/saltwater/recreational/sharks/

[wlyon]

Good to know, Thank You! That was part of the reason I am not to keen on having them shipped to me once I'm ready. My plan was either a couple of the battery operated aerators, or I've heard if people taking a couple buckets of water from where the fish was collected and half way through the trip do a water change to both help oxygen levels and keep down ammonia in the transport tank.

I still have a year and a half till I finish my PhD so hopefully I can use that time to work out some of the major bugs and flaws before I even begin.

[alprazo]

I hope you realize that the shipping container would need to be a minimum of 6 foot dia round tank for a blacktip of around 30 inches. It would also have to cover the shark by several inches. These are not hardy like a blacktip reef. They need to constantly swim with very very little down time. You are talking about a couple of hundred dollar setup, probably at least $500 minimum plus a truck rental. You would also need the same container on the ship deck with pumps to add fresh seawater. Even with the right setup these are very difficult to transport.

Here is a schematic

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y456/sharkvenom/a63569ffdc57d488a7aed23466b8afbf_zps9c56939d.jpg

[wlyon]

Thanks for the heads up, I'll have to add that to my list for sure.

How on earth to whole sale places transport them to stores then. When I worked at my LFS two of our suppliers had baby black tips all the time but I never remembered to ask how they would ship them half way across the country.

[alprazo]

You are talking about two totally different sharks. The Atlantic blacktip, Carcharhinus limbatus and the blacktip reef shark Carcharhinus melanopterus. The Atlantic blacktip is much more difficult and will not be found at the LFS.

[wlyon]

You are talking about two totally different sharks. The Atlantic blacktip, Carcharhinus limbatus and the blacktip reef shark Carcharhinus melanopterus. The Atlantic blacktip is much more difficult and will not be found at the LFS.


That explains a whole lot, thank you for pointing that out. I feel slightly silly now for missing that bit of info in my research...

[griseum]

hey Alprazo! and everybody else too!!
Ive been working with a breeding group of C. griseum. The grey bamboo shark. In my opinion this species is THE most suitable aquarium species that should be much more available than other carpet sharks i.e. Brown-Banded Bamboo, White-Spotted Bamboo, Common Eppies (even tho their low activity levels make them suitable, but their 3ft average length can be a problem) etc. Without getting to in depth, unless anyone is interested in hearing the info, Grey Bamboos are extremely hardy. Partly because of their natural locales and their endemic regions, which span quite far throughout the Indo-Pacific. Anyway, they average a usual 24" in captivity. Max. size ( keep in mind this figure may be the largest individual ever caught in the wild, which in statistics is called an Outlier, an anomaly compared to the majority) is 28-30". You will probably never see this size C. griseum unless it is collected at that size or is in public aquaria. Needless to say, with most mass production aquariums being at their widest 24" a juvenile and even subadult Griseum would be perfectly suited in such tanks as standard 180 gallons (6x2x2). As with all adult sharks and especially pairs and or groups, a larger or custom tank is much more suitable.

Im extremely happy to see a Primer for sharks. And i hope everybody reads it before making that first impulse purchase of a shark egg or hatchling Brown-banded bamboo that are "so cute" and so commonly available. Hopefully, knock on wood, my group will be producing viable eggs well within the next 3-4 months. Im extremely excited and Im really hoping that the more suitably sized carpet sharks become more available than the usual 4 footers+.

Any questions, definitely ask, and props to Alprazo, hes definitely the man to ask anything regarding Elasmobranchii. Thanks!

[jr_83]

First off, thanks for the awesome thread. Very informative. I have been out of the fish hobby for years and I wanted to get back into with sharks. It sounds like the Mexican Horn Shark would be a good option for what I'm trying to do thanks to the fact that they live in warmer waters. As far as temperament goes, would they be able to be tanked with say a Lionfish, Porcupine, etc? Also, how hard is it to find them? How much do they typically cost? I attemted to Google this info but found very little answers and just more questions. Thanks again for the excellent info.

[alprazo]

The true Mexican horn is difficult to find. I spoke to a wholesaler yesterday who said that he cannot get them. It have only seen one. They are less attractive and look like a wide bamboo shark with the horns. The California horn from Mexico is a possibility. These are occasionally pop up on the Diver's den site. There is a RC unsponsored store in the US that breeds them and sells the pups. It may be worth a call to them to see what temperature they are being kept in.

[Andynco]

Hello,
I am wanting try something other then reef and sharks/rays are right up my alley. I understand they need space. But could I start my shark and ray dream in a 180 gallon then trade them out or upgrade down the road if not what's and bare min for starting. I would like to have a zebra moray, Cortez stingray, and maybe a shark I know a 180 is small in the long run and I need a good skimmer.
What's the best beginner shark?
I can have any tank 6 foot long to start?
But I want every thing happy!
Thanks for your time it means a lot

[griseum]

Most LFS dont sell adult sharks, they sell them as hatchlings, yearlings and sub-adults. The True Cat sharks, like the Coral, Bali, Macleayi, and cool water species, are the most size suitable for a 6x2 foot tank. As juveniles they can be very small, sometimes sold from 4"-5" inches and up. The 3 tropical Cat Sharks i listed, average about ~24" as adults, but are more active during feeding and at night, then Bamboo sharks and other Carpet sharks. So even though the size is more appropriate, the activity level perhaps nullifies that.

So a juvenile shark, of no more than 10-11 inches, IMO, would be comfortable in a standard 180.
Dont count on returning the shark or selling it, because most LFS dont have the space to house bigger specimens, and trying to sell a shark can take time.

Its better to have the aquarium and life support that will maintain the shark for its entire life before you actually buy the shark itself.

[Andynco]

Most LFS dont sell adult sharks, they sell them as hatchlings, yearlings and sub-adults. The True Cat sharks, like the Coral, Bali, Macleayi, and cool water species, are the most size suitable for a 6x2 foot tank. As juveniles they can be very small, sometimes sold from 4"-5" inches and up. The 3 tropical Cat Sharks i listed, average about ~24" as adults, but are more active during feeding and at night, then Bamboo sharks and other Carpet sharks. So even though the size is more appropriate, the activity level perhaps nullifies that.

So a juvenile shark, of no more than 10-11 inches, IMO, would be comfortable in a standard 180.
Dont count on returning the shark or selling it, because most LFS dont have the space to house bigger specimens, and trying to sell a shark can take time.

Its better to have the aquarium and life support that will maintain the shark for its entire life before you actually buy the shark itself.

So I can start my shark and ray dream in a 180 then upgrade is that right?

[alprazo]

You can...... If you have 6 ft, you are better off going with an 6 ft round stock tank. Griseum is correct, the coral catsharks are more active than some of the bamboos and this has to be considered. I personally think the epaulette is best suited for a tight environment since they often walk instead of swim. They get a little larger though and are much more expensive because of where they come from.

[griseum]

Eppies are a fantastic shark! They walk most of the time rather than swim. They are better if size is a constraint. As Alprazo stated they arent available as frequently because of their locale.
PNG eppies, if you can find them, are smaller as well. They are however rarer and more costly i believe.

H. hallstromi

[griseum]

TBH, if size is an issue at all, sharks are best left alone

The goal is not to get the smallest tank possible to house the shark. The goal is to get the BIGGEST tank you can get and then purchase smaller sharks that feel extremely comfortable in that aquarium.

You want your shark to thrive, not barely survive.

This is why i have given up on "swimming sharks". I have a lagoon that can and has housed them, and ive had some pretty outrageous, in retrospect, sharks live in it, ie. Lemon, BTR, even smoothhounds and etc.
But with time and experience i believe that this is an unrealistic practice.

Now i look at my lagoon and see that it is really perfect for adult carpet sharks.

[alprazo]

tbh, if size is an issue at all, sharks are best left alone

the goal is not to get the smallest tank possible to house the shark. The goal is to get the biggest tank you can get and then purchase smaller sharks that feel extremely comfortable in that aquarium.

You want your shark to thrive, not barely survive.


agreed

[Andynco]

Thanks everyone I am now looking at 270 gallon 84x27.5x27.5 or something like that. Once again thanks

[G4546]

Heya Alprazo, I have a question (or two :)). I currently have two brown banded bamboo sharks that I hatched out over a period of about 4-5 months. One is male and the other is female :) Both eggs were purchased about 2 months apart at different stages of development. My question is, now that they are eating (quite well at that ;)) they seem or appear to be "happy"... though, I was wondering why they both prefer to lay directly in front of the powerheads I have placed at the bottom of the tank to keep the bottom (BB) free of debris. My second question is based off of their swimming "pattern" if you will. The male (the larger at about 11in now) swims extremely erratic, thrashing into rocks head first and "flicking" randomly throughout the day. I know the questions will be based off of other information that I am more than willing to supply :) Ask away and let's see if myself as well as others can learn something! :) These are my babies and are currently being "prep'd" for the move to a 240 cube (4x4x2). My concern is the erratic swimming they both demonstrate. During feeding they will come to the top of the tank and thrash about through the chalices and acroporas, digging under rocks for lost krill the H. magnifica didn't grab, but why this behaviour during non feeding times. As well, the larger male is already making the change from white bands to his more mature casual look of khaki or "brown" :) :)

Thank you in advance and for directing me to share public :)

-
G

[griseum]

I can answer some of your questions. I apologize if you only want to hear from Alprazo

EDIT: I should have thought of this originally, especially after deducing the sharks are in a reef tank. Reef tanks commonly have much more ELECTRICAL equipment associated with them compared to FO, on average. You should make doubly sure that there is no stray current. Sharks have an affinity to detecting electromagnetic fields and electric current through the use of their organ called Ampullae of Lorenzini. This organ can detect the the magnetic (electric) field given off by other living things a.k.a fish and other prey items in their surrounding waters. In aquaria, the use of electronic devices such as powerheads, perhaps not vortechs where its mostly external, may drive a sharks sense wild resulting in erratic swimming. There is some debate as to whether the use of a grounding probe is beneficial or not. Some say it gives stray current exactly what it needs to create a circuit, whereas others say the sharks/fish are better off without the probe because they (sharks) are not grounded themselves so they wont feel it. But it does get picked up by their AOL. Something to check, thats all. May actually nullify everything below.

IME sharks lay in front of pump outlets and powerheads because being that they have evolved with the ability to not have to swim in order to breathe much like "swimming sharks" or obligate ram ventilators that must stay in motion to pass water through their mouth and out there gills. The bamboos take advantage of the pumping water to help aerate there gills as they lay motionless. Its not a complete mechanism of breathing but it does aid.

Your second question:

I have noticed when i move larger sharks into smaller tanks for Quarantine. The erratic swimming pattern and Im guessing you may also see the shark roll over as he swims forward? I believe this to either be a DO problem, a PH problem, a lack of space OR the original reason they were being QTed and that is parasites (Keep reading...). When the large sharks were returned to there original dwelling, the behavior stopped.

You also mentioned flitting or flashing? This might indicate a gill fluke or nematode, a parasitic copepod, or basically just some type of villain. An external parasite may also indicate the rolling or abnormal swimming pattern. He may be trying to rid himself of something on his dorsal or pectoral side. If this is the case than i would dose him with Praziquantel immediately. It sounds like you have him in a reef? I believe in my experience that prazi is reef safe. I recently dosed it on my big shark breeding system, which has Macro algae tanks that contain soft corals and a plethora of Inverts Ive been collecting with no harm done, not even a closing of polyps on the softies. You may not want to take that risk, but if flukes are in your tank, and this has been going on for a while, than a tank bath may be best. Otherwise QT the shark and dose Prazi as directed for 3-5 days, then do a 100% WC and if he needs another treatment, do it for another 3-5 days. This has eradicated plenty of parasites in my experience and it usually shows instant relief. But during this treatment make sure to provide plenty of aeration if you do it in a QT. You must shut your skimmer down and remove carbon. Shutting the skimmer lowers your DO and the viscous Prazi lowers DO/ORP slightly as well, so adding airstones is a must, as well as surface agitation by aiming a Powerhead at the surface to create some turbulence for gas exchange.

In retrospect, its best to purchase yearlings, rather than hatchlings and eggs. This is due to the fact that soo many eggs end up not hatching, or they hatch and never take to food, which ends in a long term force-feeding that even still sometimes ends in death. The other reason not to purchase eggs is based on factual data. So many sharks make it through the hatching phase but are not suited for living. As is the case with human babies and all sorts of live-bearing and egglaying animals. Look at the mortality rate with egg laying fish! Some fish eggs only have a 10% success rate of making it through metamorphosis and into juvenile stages. It may be an abnormality internally thats only viewed through a necropsy, or just some genetic abnormality period. As you said, it seems like your bamboo shark is not seeing correctly, has this always been the case? or is it morre recent? Some flukes and parasites can also attack the eyes. Is there anything visible on the eyes? Are they cloudy?
Do you have a very rigid photoperiod? Too much actinic light? A majority of actinic lighting over your tank, can damage any animals eyes permanently, (in general lol)

Please explain a little bit more about your system including tank length and width and tankmates, etc, as well as parameters and your source for the eggs? Also, do you have a suitably sized QT that you could remove the sharks into for treatment if thats what you decide to do?
Thanks.

EDIT**: I answered a lot of my own questions, ie., photoperiod, actinics, etc,etc by deducing that you have chalices and acropora, which would indeed indicate a reef tank. In addition there is a very good shark forum out there on the vast Interweb. PM for the address. A lot of experienced shark/ray keepers and a lot of your questions may already be answered there.

Even though you are upgrading to a 240, this will not house the sharks for very long. The species you happen to have, grows to a very large average adult size. Give or take they become three feet long and have a very large body mass. Even at around 2 feet they weigh more than a tank full of large bony fish combined. Just something to ponder, how much longer you will be able to care for them and if you have the option to purchase a larger tank. Check out that other website Im referring you too for tank size recommendations.



Good Luck

[G4546]

Crunched for time, I just wanted to express my great appreciation for your response. Thank you very much griseum :) I'll have a little more time to respond after this day is completed ;) Thank you again mate! :)

[griseum]

PM replied! No problem.

[alprazo]

. I will second the recommendation that you treat with praziquantil. Absolutely correct about oxygenation issues and treatment. Either add an airstone or turbulent flow. Like a power head, at the surface.

[G4546]

Hey, sorry for the delay... long holiday :) Treatment will be prep'd as you both suggest. Yes I do have a QT that would hold them for the duration of the treatment, question... If there is no need for the treatment and we go through with treating them, is there any negatives to that? Other than some stress? The seeing, it has always been the case I would say. I obtained both eggs from a wholesaler about 2 months between eachother. One hatched naturally and one was helped. Both waited between 6-8 days before eating, they are fed daily, small amounts. I do not notice anything on the eyes though, they are not cloudy or seem to have anything on them. Like a cats eye in the mid days sun though, that little slit :) My photo period I would assume could be considered rigid, 12 on 12 off 175MH. Now another question would be this, the aquarium that the eggs were placed into had been fallow for 7 to 8 weeks they were the only introduction. Is it possible for them to obtain parasites within the egg while developing? Interesting if so. The 240 is just a stepping stone, as a "large" tank was to you Grim and Alprazo before building one ;) I also need to PM you further on something Grim, if ya don't mind. I do greatly appreciate your time, thank you.

-
G

[alprazo]

Fallow works for obligate parasites like ich a velvet that have short life cycles. Monogenia, Cestodes, nematodes, Trematodes, and pods, though parasites can often live past the typical fallow period for ich. Look at the Cimex lectularius (bed bug). They feed solely on blood. We kept one alive in a jar at work for nearly a year without a meal.

I used to treat all of my new sharks with Dimilin to kill amphipods and Copepods. I can't find it anymore though.

As for Prazi, all meds pose a risk. I believe that it is a safer one.

[SantaMonica]

I need to spend much more time reading about fishes. A walking shark? The PNG guy looks amazing.

[griseum]

So I checked the sexes of my gray bamboo breeding group now that they've officially started to reach maturity. I was very surprised by what I discovered. The two biggest in the group are my males while the three smaller are my females. I thought the whole time that the females were the bigger ones because of their bigger average length! I am thought they'd be the ones growing faster and wider.
So now with that info on hand it looks like the ladies have some growing to do. But I've had them all now for 18-24 months and purchased them all at at least 12". So that would indicate they are all almost three years old which means they should be sexually mature going by age and size.
I'm stumped. The claspers aren't calcified and the females are def not big enough to carry eggs, I don't think. But I will keep the temp up and keep feeding them healthy and a varied supplemented diet. I bet by the end of the year now I'll have hatchlings. Some reading I did stated similar sized Chiloscylium arabicum eggs hatch in 70-80 days. Much less that C. punctatum at 120-180 days. I'm guessing the eggs must be much smaller as well.
We shall see.

[RayL]

I hope this is a good place to post this, my LFS has a Black Tip in a 1000G tank and the sharks fins are starting to curve as he is clearly cramped. I told them they need to relocate this shark and they said they dont know anyone that wants it. I thought i would ask you guys. The store is in toronto, so its probably a little far from most of you however they said their would be no charge for the shark as long as it was going to a good home. Do any of you want the shark or know someone that might, I hate seeing this shark suffer. They said they think it is a female.

[tatuaje08]

Since racetracks can be expensive, I've been wondering if anyone has converted a square tank into a racetrack? Maybe use inserts in the corners to create curves?

[tatuaje08]

Hmph...... After reading the inital post over and over, there doesn't seem to be a diurnal swimmer that stays reasonably small. Correct?

[jsherm]

I am hoping someone may have good advice on some options or recommendations for me. I have 250g rectangular tank and a brown banded cat/carpet shark that is about 2.5 ft long. I’ve had him for about 2 years, and unfortunately think I will be moving to a condo downtown and can’t take the tank. I just want to make sure he goes somewhere good, preferably to a larger tank. I live in North Florida. What are my best options; would he be able to survive if I released him? Would an aquarium want him?
Thanks.

[alprazo]

DO NOT release it into the wild.
http://science.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/01/10/16451117-flushing-nemo-pet-fish-pose-ocean-threat?lite

I would suggest calling around to LFS.

[alprazo]

Hmph...... After reading the inital post over and over, there doesn't seem to be a diurnal swimmer that stays reasonably small. Correct?

The Atlantic sharpnose would fit your description. I would argue however that they would require more space than the blacktip reef shark. They should also be kept in groups.

[Holyhands22]

Alprazo can you talk about quarantine for new sharks. I know they do terrible with copper i use a 30 gal. Tank for quarantine and i want to quarantine before i introduce him. I want to be informed as possible. Do they do well in hypo salinity?? Will the 30 gal be ok for a newborn shark just so i can observe and make sure he is ok. Sorry i learned my lesson about not using a qt. i have a Lionfish battling ich right now from a new fish i got with using a qt. any thoughts would be appreciated.

[griseum]

Hypo is not the best way to treat sharks. They are very sensitive to changes in salinity. They have a different type of Osmoregulatory system than bony fish. It is said that sharks MAY be able to carry ich but not become infected, so the only solution would be to keep the shark in the QT tank for a long enough time for any Crypt cysts, free floaters or parasites to die off, if they were introduced with the shark. Sort of like letting a tank run fish-free or fallow after an Ich outbreak, only having the shark be the only resident. From what I know, Cryptocarryon irritans needs a bony fish to feed off of, I believe that the sharks dermal denticles and tough skin would prevent the parasite from feeding. This is what makes me draw the conclusion that a fallow tank with just the shark will ultimately eradicate the parasites. If some new research indicates that Crypt. can host on sharks, then you will need to use one of the following drugs: Quinine and Chloroquine. There are several public aquariums that have used Seachems Cupramine on Eppies, but with rigorous monitoring and testing. Some have experienced a complete loss of appetite whereas others had complete success!You would also be well off to use this time in the QT to treat the shark with Prazi. This will remove any ecto-parasites and or worms. Many sharks can be hosts to different types of nematodes or parasitic copepods, which this takes care of, as well as internal worms and such. Prazi can often be a shark keepers best friend.

However, do not Combine any medications! Check for Contra-Indications wherever you can. I believe there are several webpages on Manufacturers websites listing there meds and what not to ever mix with it. Its always best to do one at a time, even just for stress reasons as well.
Good luck!

Apologies if you only wanted Alprazo and Im sure he will be along shortly to help you as well. Just my experience.

[Holyhands22]

No your info is good i just needed to be prepared. So prazi pro with the shark by itself. I have never used prazi pro but is it like cupramine do less than the recommended dose. The shark was born today so im gonna get him sometime in the next couple of days after i get another qt setup. Are sharks fairly resistant to disease because of their regulatory system.

[griseum]

If the shark is that newly hatched, I wouldn't treat it with any medication. Its hard enough getting newly hatched sharks to eat as is. You don't want to stress such a small animal even further. I would give it weeks before even considering meds, a simple QT with just the shark in it, and observation should be fine. Use a small enough tank so that you spot feed the little guy when hes ready to eat, usually after a week of being hatched, sometimes longer, sometimes never and they starve to death.

I assume its a Brown Banded Bamboo shark, and if so, I hope you have a fairly large tank. They average above 3 feet in length as adults, if well cared for, sometimes larger. I would consider not purchasing the shark, unless you already have. These are very care-intensive animals, which require specialized set-ups and extensive Life Support Systems. Keeping them along with bony fish increases difficulty because you cant use many medications on the bony fish with shark present in the system. I would do a lot of reading, Bob Fenners website is full of baby shark Q&A's and FAQs. Browse through that site and see what many people have gone through time and time again.

If you happen to have a 1000 gallon tank, then I apologize.

[Holyhands22]

No i don't have a 1000 gallon tank should i reconsider my purchase. I have a fairly nice sized tank its 130x25x25. I assumed this was big enough its newly acquired should i not go with this size

[RayL]

I am no expert, but if the shark grows to 3 feet and your tank is only 2 feet in depth, I dont think this will be a suitable long term home for the shark

[Holyhands22]

Yeah i didnt think about that.

[alprazo]

I would not treat a newly hatched shark unless there is a problem.

Personally I use a 40 gallon breeder for the neonate pups. Your tank would provide enough room for several years, but is not big enough for the life of the shark. Your tank is also too big to best take care of the pup.

A two foot height of the water column is adequate for the life of the shark IMO. Many touch exhibits use this depth and the benthic sharks your talking about live and thrive for many years in these pools.

[Holyhands22]

Well i have a 20 gallon breeder or a 30 gallon tank that have no fish in them he would be by himself.

[tatuaje08]

The Atlantic sharpnose would fit your description. I would argue however that they would require more space than the blacktip reef shark. They should also be kept in groups.

Yeah, I want a smaller species. Have your pngs bred yet? Will the neonates be for sale?

[griseum]

Holyhands- With the dimensions of that tank, the Atelomycterus spp. tropical cat sharks would definitely enjoy the length, and of the three trop. spp. the biggest averages 24" so the width wouldn't be as much of a problem. I believe you will enjoy their more active nature. The will love swimming that 10ft+ length!
A. marmoratus = Coral catshark - most commonly available.
A. macleayi = Marbled catshark
A. baliensis = Bali catshark

There are also better suited Bamboos and eppies.
As posted above The PNG (H. hallstromi) eppie.
The Gray bamboo (C. griseum), Arabian Bamboo (C. arabicum/confusum), Hasselt's Bamboo (C. hasselti - Not recommended), and a couple other species that are never seen in N. America for some reason, however.

So don't choose just the most popular, the Brown Banded, because of its availability. If you can find some videos of adults of that species, they get long and thick and look like Nurse sharks!! Nothing like that cute little black and white guy that comes out of that four inch egg case. lol!
Good Luck

[Holyhands22]

Thanks for the input i will be doing more research.

[Holyhands22]

How well do sharks ship? From the west coast to the east coast. Its summer time here so its been in the 90's should i ask for extra ice packs things of that nature.

[Zoodiver]

I am hoping someone may have good advice on some options or recommendations for me. I have 250g rectangular tank and a brown banded cat/carpet shark that is about 2.5 ft long. I’ve had him for about 2 years, and unfortunately think I will be moving to a condo downtown and can’t take the tank. I just want to make sure he goes somewhere good, preferably to a larger tank. I live in North Florida. What are my best options; would he be able to survive if I released him? Would an aquarium want him?
Thanks.


I can take it off your hands if you are willing to ship or transport it down. It can go into my 5,000 gallon shark display.

Def don't release it. It's illegal and they are not native to our waters.

[alprazo]

Another reminder.

http://i1275.photobucket.com/albums/y456/sharkvenom/69fa562297b73c8357fd8f0be7a913e4_zps4796dec9.jpg

[Grubbelmuz]

I have a question regarding groups. I currently hold 2 Bamboos and are planning to expand that nummber, Is there anny fighting risk if you have 2 males and 3 females? or shoud you have 1 male and 3 females etc.. I take you have some advice to give on this matter. Goal is to start breeding them when they come of age.

Regards: Grubb

[G4546]

From what I've read and pending on the size of the home you have for them, is that conspecific males can get a little rambunctious with each other. Maybe G or Alprazo can chime in on how many females would safely go with a single male. Also, by the way, thank you for the post Alprazo, keeping everyone up to date like always :)

[alprazo]

It is hit or miss. Some males don't seem to mind each other. Others attack any similar male in the tank, juvenile or adult. My male short tail tolerated one male shark in the past but will kill any other male I put in the tank.

[Grubbelmuz]

So, try to avoid more than one male then. How about the females, more easy to mix?

[Zoodiver]

I agree, it varies with the shark. Specifically speaking of benthic sharks: I've kept large mixed sex groups together without issue, but I've also seen the flip side where males will bit claspers and fins of other similar species males. My best luck was excess space and blocking line of sight. If they had enough places to get away and hide from each other, they seemed to do better with multiple males in the same display.
ORVs don't tend to have the same male vs male issues that I've seen with benthics.

[Bobborocco]

After reading this and many other articles i would like to say thank you! I had planned on making my 180 a shark tank, but after reading and reading i decided not to. Not fair for the shark to be in a small tank like that!
Oh yeah by the way new member here! Lots and lots of good info on this site!

[sharklover567]

Thanks for the information man,somebody who is at least helpful on the keeping sharks unlike some people on this forum.

[Danny Mac]

So how about a 62" x 62" x 24" custom aquarium with the overflow in the middle of the tank? Maybe an eppie and a bamboo/smaller cat? I have a really good friend of mine who does custom acrylic and since i just got a new house i have been planning a bigger aquarium. I would probably need at least an 80 plus gal sump? I would want a pump that would turn over the tank volume 6-8 times an hour. Huge skimmer. I assume lots of live rock or are ppl still using bio balls for the FOWLR?

[Danny Mac]

I may possibly do 72" x 60" by 24"... any thoughts? what sharks would do well in a tank like this?

[Zoodiver]

Most of the bamboos, epaulettes and tropical catsharks would do just fine.
If you want to do something a little more unique, look into a good chiller and that will open the door for cold water catsharks and swell sharks.

[danimallaminad]

What would you recommend as a tank size for a grey bamboo? not just minimum but comfy?

[krj-1168]

Well general speaking - minimum for bamboo sharks would be about the following
Length = 4 x maximum species length
Width = 1.5 x maximum species length.
Height = 0.8 x maximum species length.

So minimum for a Grey Bamboo - would be a tank about 10 feet x 4 feet x 2 feet. Since their maximum size is about 30 inches.

But to make it comfy - then go with at least a 10 feet x 5 feet x 2.5 feet = which about 900 gallons.

[marcgrantphoto]

There use to be a LFS in Kansas City that had 3 Lemon sharks in the 2 to 3 foot range in a 16 foot diameter round pool. They swam non-stop round and round in circles. Not a good life for a shark.

[griseum]

Lemon Sharks normally take breaks from swimming. They like to lie and rest on the bottom. Believe it or not, they are not ORV or obligate ram ventilators.
All that to the side, the sharks average adult size is outrageous for an aquarist to keep unless they are the owner of a Mega-Aquarium. That, and Lemons are notoriously aggressive. A two-foot Lemon pup is practically a new born.

Lots of better options out there. If you must have a shark, and you are not in the Forbes Top "Whatever" list, stick with a bamboo, eppie, cat shark or the like. And you'll still need a custom aquarium, or better yet pond, the size of a decent bedroom, with lots and lots of electricity powering big pieces of Filtration Equipment.

[Zoodiver]

I agree. When it comes to sharks, it's usually cheaper to think outside the tank - go pond or pool. For the money you'd spend on a bare minimum size glass tank/stand, you could have several thousand gallons of above ground pool.

[krj-1168]

Lemon Sharks are a species which should allowed to never be kept by private aquarists or in LFS. When you consider the size of pond or tank need to keep one for life(at least 100,000 gallons), and the maximum size of adults(11-12 feet). These sharks truly need to be kept in a public aquarium.

[BabyB]

Hello everyone,

First off I wanted to that you guys for such a great primer!
And secondly I wanted to bounce ideas off of you guys and ask a few questions.

I have the opportunity to get a custom made tank for basically any size I want (within reason) and have been in love with horn sharks for about a decade but have never had a tank to house one for its entire life. I have been bouncing detentions around and am leaning towards 96"X32"X24" or 100"X32"X24". It will be a mixed reef with nothing to crazy on fish or coral.

What would your reservations be about keeping a California Horn Shark in this sized tank?

I have also seen many recommendations to supplement with vitamins in the food. What brands/products do you personally use or recommend.

Thanks for the help :)

[Fr0zEn4244]

I fed my shark scollops, every once in awhile soacked in iodine. I had a few corals that my shark swam through and killed. Sharks and reefs dont work IMO.

[Zoodiver]

Just throwing this out there, Cali horn sharks (and most horn sharks) generally thrive in cooler/cold water set ups. It will be a touch over 3 feet long as an adult.
I used to keep them in the mid/upper 60F range. I wouldn't let them get much warmer than about 71/72F at the top end for temp range (kind of cold for most typical coral). It will greatly shorten lifespan of the shark when kept warmer. Also, sharks can crash water quality quickly and will hide from the bright lights required for coral.

[norfolkgarden]

What is the best way to insulate the bottom of the 8' round stock pond from ambient temps?

We get 3" thick, 2'x8' Styrofoam sheets at work for various jobs. No clue what they will support in weight evenly distributed or long term. Walking on them doesn't seem to hurt them much. Just a first thought.

Thank you,
Matt

[griseum]

I have had 3" styro sheets with the same dimensions under my pond for over 5 years now with no trouble. On the sides i have, if i remember correctly 1" or 1.5" then 3/4" plyboard. Then there are two 90mil EPDM pond liners on top of all that. I try not to walk on it as much as possible. Im sure by now there's been a great deal of compacting on the bottom 3" styro. Its such a large body of water that it does remain pretty stable. I control the temperature by the ambient room temperature. This is simple because around more than half of the pond's outer sides lies baseboard heating. Then in the warmer months, despite being in the basement, there are window wells with normal-size windows for ACs and exhaust fans.

[krj-1168]

I have the opportunity to get a custom made tank for basically any size I want (within reason) and have been in love with horn sharks for about a decade but have never had a tank to house one for its entire life. I have been bouncing detentions around and am leaning towards 96"X32"X24" or 100"X32"X24". It will be a mixed reef with nothing to crazy on fish or coral.

Cali Horns in a mixed reef setting - NO. Not a good idea. Such a set to harm the Horn or damage the reef.

Cali Horns should be in a tank with live rock (namely a place to hide). Also they really do best in water temps of 65-72 F.

An 96" x 48" x 24" would be okay for a Horn or two until it reachs 24-25 inches in length. For an averaged sized adult (about 3 feet) - I would suggest a pool about 8 feet in diameter. For a large adult (up to 4 feet) - it's better to go with a pool which would be at least 10 feet in diameter.

[sniceley]

A client of mine has a 6000 gallon octagon artificial reef. Presently it houses about 400 fish total. There are maybe 60 medium to large tangs, 200 mixed clowns and damsels, 6 large angels of various species, 3 large clown triggers, 20 mixed medium triggers, 30 dwarf angels, and some other oddball small to medium fish. The tank is viewable on all sides and has about 2 inches of crushed coral as a substrate.

I was thinking about suggesting the addition of some bluedot rays and epaulette sharks for the bottom.

Are there any concerns other than possibility of predation of smaller fish? The 3 big clown triggers are 12" or more so this is potentially already an issue, but so far we keep everyone well fed enough that is hasn't been a problem.

Also, are there any medication aversions of sharks and rays? We occasionally treat with prazi, chloroquine phosphate, and metro.

Thanks for the help. I kept and bred freshwater rays for years and think this would be a great setup for their marine cousins.

[danimallaminad]

I'm in no way a shark or ray expert, but I have read about having fine sand as the substrate because the coarser stuff can scratch their bellies and then they can get infected. Just something to think about.

[sniceley]

That was one thing I was concerned about. I pool filter sand for my freshwater rays and it was great. With the high water flow and floor drains on this system light sand is not possible. It used to have fine sand but blowing around scratched the lower areas of the tank over time as well.

[Zoodiver]

Blue spot rays aren't something I'd suggest. They tend to drop dead after a few weeks.

It depends on the other fish. Triggers can be aggressive towards benthic sharks. They seem to target the eyes of the sharks/rays. Angels, tangs and other 'grazers' will generally tend to do the same thing. That being said, with enough space and food, sometimes that can be worked around.

I'd suggest a benthic shark that was a little bit more aggressive and can hold it's own - like a brown banded bamboo or white spotted bamboo.

[eglinlotus]

What is the smallest Shark you can get for Aquariums. Also if you were to get an egg does the water temp have to do with it being a male or female?

[Zoodiver]

The best small tropical would be a coral or marbled catshark. Sex is genetic, not temp based.

[eglinlotus]

I have a 120 gallon that has been running for 2 months now and I want to get a single shark egg and was looking at the coral's but I also have a 180 gallon that is currently going through the nitrogen cycle how long would the 120 be good for and at what size could the Coral get before I should move him to the 180?

[alprazo]

The Bali catshark Atelomycterus baliensis will top out at ~ 20 inches. About 6 inches smaller than the coral cat. The Chain cat will reach about 24 inches but is a temperate animal and would do best in a tank similar to a lobster tank.

Captive raise Bali cats can be purchased from Chris - benthicsharks.ca
PM me if you have interest in the chain cats

I personally think that a 250 gal would be better.

[eglinlotus]

The Bali catshark Atelomycterus baliensis will top out at ~ 20 inches. About 6 inches smaller than the coral cat. The Chain cat will reach about 24 inches but is a temperate animal and would do best in a tank similar to a lobster tank.

Captive raise Bali cats can be purchased from Chris - benthicsharks.ca
PM me if you have interest in the chain cats

I personally think that a 250 gal would be better.

Hey thank you for the reply I think I will go with the Bali cats. Its the Foot print that the sharks need right not height?

[Zoodiver]

I always forget Chris has those CB Balis. Those are a great option!

[eglinlotus]

Does anyone else breed them? Or any other places that have them usually in stock? I called him and he told me he wouldnt have pups for a few months

[albano]

...
Glad to see you're back!

[sharkkeeper1]

Very good write-up, but it needs more detail (water temp., setup, etc.)

_________________
500gallon round

[alprazo]

Unfortunately, the answers to your questions drastically differ depending on the species of Shark. Fortunately or unfortunately there are many that are available for home aquaria.

The easiest answer to your questions is temperature. Look of the range of your shark at fishbase.org then go to http://www.sea-temperature.com/ and find out the temperature that your shark comes from. Very easy.

As for tank size, one considers foot print and not gallons when dealing with both benthic and ORV sharks. It also depends on shape. Round or oval is better than square or rectangular with the one exception being the eppies where it doesn't really matter.

What species are you considering?

[sharkkeeper1]

Do you have any knowledge of smallspotted catsharks? I want to add one to add on to one of my larger cold-water tanks (2000 gallon). Also, would it be compatible with a port jackson shark. I might even add a swell shark if the two are compatible.

[alprazo]

Not sure what side of the pond you are on, but here on the Western Atlantic they are definitely uncommon. That said, I hear that they are similar to the cooler water cats that make it to our shores from Japan, New South Wales and our own chain cats. They are said to be hardy and adapt well to aquarium life. Maybe someone will chime in with personal experience. You may want to take a closer look at the crested horns too. The temp range may match a little better. My blinds from NSW tolerate the 55f temps quite well.

[skinsncanes]

Greetings, I started a thread for a shark tank Im making but I started it in the 'large tank forum'. Was the right place?

I had a question about protein skimmers and sharks. Im planning a 280 minimum tank for a couple coral cat sharks. Possibly also a eel and ray down the road but fish only. Any aquarium/fish store ive called all said theres no need for the protein skimmer in a minimal fish only tank. I read online a lot that people say get it because theyre messy eaters. Isnt the scraps from a meal mostly larger and caught in the socks or live rock?

Ideally, please respond and follow in my thread :)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2406786

[fishhuman]

Sorry for being a bit off topic here but has anyone kept cat sharks in an inflatable pool

[Cu455]

Sorry for being a bit off topic here but has anyone kept cat sharks in an inflatable pool

I know people have used it short term. It will lose air over time. This is what I am setting up in a few weeks. I will let you know how it holds. There is something similar on eBay that is cheaper but doesn't look that sturdy. I am also using pond liner.

http://www.dreampond.com/show-tanks-viewing-bowls.html

[alprazo]

http://www.pearlsofparadise.com/Show%20Tanks.htm has been the gold standard for this type of pond.

[SantaMonica]

Good info: I'm asked more and more about what is a good starter shark.

The pool or holding tank idea seems very simple.

[mike_o]

Hey Alpranzo,

I saw your thread and you seemed to be very knowledgeable on the topic of sharks and was hoping you could help. I recently had two baby bamboo sharks in my tank, one was a couple months old, and the other was a month older that that. I hatched both in my tank. Recently, in the past two-three weeks, both sharks have died. :( The older one died about a week ago, and the younger one died today. Both experienced the same symptoms, but the younger one's symptoms happened right after the older one died. I went different aquarium shops by my house and no one knew what was going on, and did some research on my own as well. The only explanation I could find was a bacterial infection, but am not sure. The sharks would lose their appetite and would not eat. I could not find any red dots on their bellies, nor could I find a lump in the throat. In the tank I have a grounding probe and my levels were the same as they were when I set up the tank and normal throughout the period, as was the temperature. I was feeding the sharks frozen squid and octopus. All the sudden, the older one stopped eating one night when feeding. Before this, he had a very healthy appetite, but did not eat ever since. He would lay around, almost motionless. At times, it was almost as if he would swim in place. He started breathing heavily, and about a week and a half to two weeks after he stopped eating, he passed away. 2 days after the shark died, the other one stopped eating. The younger one was more outgoing to begin with, and during this time he would swim around, but lay in the sand motionless after. What I found weird was that the sharks would twitch while swimming around. All the other symptoms were the same as the older shark too.

In the tank I also have 2 tangs and a clown, all which are doing fine. Is there anything you can think of that could of caused this? I want to start over with new shark eggs, but am afraid to without finding a cause to the other sharks' deaths...

[griseum]

Alprazo should be around soon.

But in the mean time i could help out. The selling and buying of shark eggs is a tricky business, and not to preach, but something that I avoid and i think others should to! The success rate is horrible... as you have witnessed. If you consider what takes place in the wild, and the rate of eggs laid to hatchlings and then on to yearlings, the successful ratio of sharks to make it to a year of age is extremely low. This is one of the reasons why sharks have evolved 3 different reproduction strategies (egg layers, eggs kept internally, live birth), plus parthenogenesis in a few select species, where females produce clone offspring all by themselves!
So, by not purchasing a shark that is perhaps already a juvenile and eating already, you are taking on the natural risks that also cause juvies to not survive, such as deformities, birth defects, etc, in the wild.

You mentioned that the juvies were twitching while swimming. If I understand correctly, they were shaking their heads back and forth? This could indicate a parasite, or "fluke", especially on or around the gills.
You fed frozen squid and octopus... For a newly hatched shark, these are pretty large and dense (esp. octopus). How did you prepare it in order for them to be able to consume? Did you notice any type of bloating in the stomach areas?
The octopus is usually extremely rubbery and hard to cut, depending on which type or how you purchased it.
Did you QT the tangs and clown? If not they may have introduced something into the tank prior to the shark eggs. Tangs have been known to pick at sharks.

What size tank and what type of filtration and water movement do you have?

Hope some of this helps.

[mike_o]

Griseum,

Thanks for trying to help. I wouldn't say the sharks were shaking their heads, but more their whole bodies. It just looked like a a quick twitching when they would swim to find another place to lay.

I would cut the food in small pieces and soak it in a garlic solution. I have noticed a bloated stomach before, especially in the larger shark. I used squid at first, but when i wanted to buy more, they were out and I tried octopus. The other fish were in there before both sharks hatched. I noticed the tangs bothering each other at first but not the sharks.

The tank is a bit small, around 100g, because I was setting up a larger tank for the sharks at the time. For filtration I have live rock, a protein skimmer, and a refugium.

[griseum]

And how long had this tank been set up?
It can be hard to feed newly hatched sharks. Most of the time the hardest part is getting them to eat anything at all! If they are fed too much food at once, it is possible for the food to decompose before it is digested, while within their gut. In larger sharks this can sometimes be remediate. But in a hatchling, it would be much harder.
If they were jetting off from where they were laying on the sandbed, with a twitch or two while swimming off, it sounds like there is something on the sand bed, then on their skin, that was irritating them. I would say some sort of platyheminthes, monogenea (thanks Alprazo) or parasitic copepod. The first two are usually eradicated by Praziquantel, or brand name PraziPro. The third, parasitic copepods, can be a little more complicated and that would he better described by Alprazo or Zoodiver.

IME, it is best to avoid eggs. Start with a juvenile or yearling. And if you can find them near you, captive bred would be best!

[mike_o]

And how long had this tank been set up?
It can be hard to feed newly hatched sharks. Most of the time the hardest part is getting them to eat anything at all! If they are fed too much food at once, it is possible for the food to decompose before it is digested, while within their gut. In larger sharks this can sometimes be remediate. But in a hatchling, it would be much harder.
If they were jetting off from where they were laying on the sandbed, with a twitch or two while swimming off, it sounds like there is something on the sand bed, then on their skin, that was irritating them. I would say some sort of platyheminthes, monogenea (thanks Alprazo) or parasitic copepod. The first two are usually eradicated by Praziquantel, or brand name PraziPro. The third, parasitic copepods, can be a little more complicated and that would he better described by Alprazo or Zoodiver.

IME, it is best to avoid eggs. Start with a juvenile or yearling. And if you can find them near you, captive bred would be best!
It's been set up for almost 7 months. I had both sharks eating early, the older one was about 4 month and the younger one was three. Could overfeeding have caused them to stop and act strange?.. I'll look up what you mentioned and see if I can figure anything out.

[griseum]

Yes overfeeding can cause them to stop eating, if what I described was to occur. If the gut fills with decomposed food, at worst, it can be fatal. It may cause extreme gas and a bloated look in the sharks midsection.
The frozen octopus I buy sometimes is so dense and rubbery that i use only small bits mixed in with other seafood. Being so dense, when swallowed whole, I imagine it takes quite a bit more time to digest, as is the nature of enzymes and acids. Less surface area to act on, by swallowing whole, and much more mass due to the density of the octopus.
Hatchlings/small juveniles can be fed small meals daily due to faster metabolisms. During the first year of a sharks life it will grow more and faster than during any other time. A varied diet of smaller, "mushier" items, supplemented with a vitamin/fatty acid product should be sufficient. Keep an eye on Iodine intake, but dont go nuts trying to supplement it. I use un-cleaned raw shrimp that still have the "vein", remove the shell myself, and dice them into small piece. If the shark is very small, ill mush the diced piece of shrimp in between my fingers.
Hope this Helps.

[Zoodiver]

Hey Mike,
I agree with what has already been said.
Twitching like that can indicate they are struggling to pass something or move something down the GI tract. I've seen pups work to pass food items that a juvie or adult wouldn't even blink at.
Pups usually need a lot of smaller feedings more frequently compared to the adults of a species.

Kind of a sad story as an example, but I lost a captive hatching Zebra pup (Stegastoma fasciatum) to very similar circumstances as you are describing. Was the only survivor of a group of four eggs. Hatched perfectly. Started eating a couple days later. With in the first few weeks it was conditioned to target and take food from my hand. (It was going to be a display animal, so I wanted to get it involved in a operant conditioning program.)
Several weeks into it, the shark stopped eating. It exhibited the same "twitching" behavior as you described. After it passed, I did the necropsy to see what went wrong.
Lodged inside the stomach, I found a small piece of plastic wrapper. I found out a staff member who wasn't authorized to deal with the shark thought it would be fun to feed it. Sadly, the protocols for food prep weren't followed, and part of the packaging was fed to the animal. The same type of thing occurs with non-digested food.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x449/Zoodiver/All%20Fish%20All%20Pets/DSC_2326_zpsff9b9f8a.jpg

Here you can see excessive bile (green patch on the liver, the right side is the spiral valve protruding out) being produced to help break down the foreign object in the stomach.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x449/Zoodiver/All%20Fish%20All%20Pets/DSC_2836_zps9320f700.jpg

The dark rectangle on the left side is the plastic, the middle section is stomach and the right is the spiral valve.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x449/Zoodiver/All%20Fish%20All%20Pets/DSC_2844_zps17e3b7af.jpg

I wiped it clean before realizing what it was.

http://i1182.photobucket.com/albums/x449/Zoodiver/All%20Fish%20All%20Pets/DSC_2845_zps77e9a374.jpg

[G4546]

I'm very sorry to hear that Zoo. Though it is very informative and I appreciate you posting your analysis for us. Very unfortunate that sometimes others can be so negligent.

[griseum]

Zoo- Thanks for sharing that with us. As they say a pic is worth a thousand words!

Sorry to hear about the steg. They are beauties for sure!

[Zoodiver]

To me, by sharing stuff like this, it enables others to avoid the same thing.
Mistakes happen. But the same mistake twice means you weren't paying attention.

[Cu455]

Thanks for sharing the pictures zoodiver. It is very informative. Took me back to anatomy lab. Sorry about the shark I remember the thread you started she first hatched. NY aquatics had some zebra eggs a few weeks ago. It took a lot of willpower for me not to order a couple of them. Are you going to get another one?

I came across this article and thought this would be a good place to share. I assume because this is called part 1 there will be more to follow.

Elasmobranch Enthusiasts (Part 1): Modern Husbandry – Space

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/elasmobranch-enthusiasts-part-1-modern-husbandry-space-3467/

[Zoodiver]

I know Paul, and he posts on MFK in the shark section. It is going to be an ongoing series of article talking about the husbandry of various elasmobranch species that people show interest in.


As for another Zebra for me, not at this time. I don't have a display large enough to house one. In the next couple of weeks I may be starting a project that would incorporate possibly a pair of Zebras into the group of elasmos they would like displayed.

[Cu455]

I came across this article and thought this would be a good place to share. I assume because this is called part 1 there will be more to follow.

Elasmobranch Enthusiasts (Part 1): Modern Husbandry – Space

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/elasmobranch-enthusiasts-part-1-modern-husbandry-space-3467/


Elasmobranch Enthusiasts (Part 2): Modern Husbandry – Diet

http://www.saltwatersmarts.com/elasmobranch-enthusiasts-part-2-modern-husbandry-diet-3624/

[robandlynn]

I have a shark for sale

[maxter]

What kind ? M looking for a hammer shark

[Zoodiver]

What kind ? M looking for a hammer shark


I really hope you aren't looking for a hammerhead.

[sharkboy99999]

Maybe he looking for bonnet head shark or dwarf hammer head

[Zoodiver]

Bonnetheads aren't hammerheads, and I'm not familiar with a dwarf hammer.

????

[maxter]

m just joking lol :) but that would b super nice have a open water shark like a pet.....

[sharkboy99999]

A bonnethead is in the hammer head family

[Zoodiver]

Yes, same scientific family, but not considered 'true' hammerheads.

[Captainsreef]

I wrote an article on this subject. It's called we're going to need a bigger tank. The reality of Jaws in the aquarium. Very enlightening and factual. Cheers!

[TNTtropical]

Where is your article at captainsreef? I'd like to give it a read

[billsreef]

Where is your article at captainsreef? I'd like to give it a read

He can't answer that without violating the [ua] ;)

[Nativeshark]

He can't answer that without violating the <a href="/browse.php?u=dGfp5y7%2B3tPToT0qpHV8BpMfxtsfOat5y120Aju1hB52EswZVOEn6q6urYehCrw%3D&b=5">User Agreement</a> ;)

What does the face mean?

[billsreef]

What does the face mean?

It's a wink, as in "wink, wink, nudge, know what I mean" ;)

In other words the guy is commercial and self promoting his site, hence he can't answer the question without violating the user agreement.

[alprazo]

Got it. Thx. Of course I'm expecting something in the scientific literature.

[G4546]

The thread seems to be veering.... :facepalm:

[Yom4]

Great thread! I am an experienced fresh and marine hobbyist and a few days ago I acquired a fairly famous coral cat shark that is at least a year and a half old and he now calls my 265 home. I rearranged the base/live rock so he has a pass through behind it in addition to the open front. The famous part is he is from the Pittsburgh Pirate "shark tank". Was just reading up on everyone opinions and there seems to be a wealth of knowledge here. Good work guys and thank you.

[Dmorty217]

What are fish that shouldn't be kept with sharks outside of the ones that may become a snack? I thought I had read somewhere that some fish may pick at the eyes of sharks? Is this true and if so which fish?

[alprazo]

Angels, puffers, triggers, filefish all have a bad reputation. Not just for eyes, but also skin. Every individual fish is different though and there is no rule, just recommendations.

[Zoodiver]

Yeah, generally in small (home size) aquariums, and grazer will go for eyes / fins of benthic sharks. That being said, with enough volume and the right set up, you can get some very interesting species combinations.

[Dmorty217]

The 625 I have is 84x72x24"

[alprazo]

I'm asked frequently about how to sex sharks. Even when contacting online fish places, that we all know, I've been told they can sex juveniles or can't sex them at all. This is simply untrue. Male sharks have external reproductive organs called claspers. The are present at birth and are easily identifiable. Below is a great example. As they mature they elongate, as pups they are small, but always present in males. https://teacheratsea.files.wordpress.com/2011/08/100_1959.jpg

[Uc21]

Hi I've been on this forum for a while now just don't post much I was hoping maybe someone could help me out I've had many different sharks and rays before with no issues in the past my tank is 108 x 36 x 24 with an external overflow I have two marbled cat sharks with about 20 diff tangs and I just got a blue dot ray any body have any experience with getting them to eat I've had him for a week now and haven't seen him eat yet I've seen him go through the sand but he dosnt go after any food wen I feed the tank I've tried krill and silversides so far . And I was also wondering if anybody makes there own frozen food from seafood you find at the super market.

[Dmorty217]

Hi I've been on this forum for a while now just don't post much I was hoping maybe someone could help me out I've had many different sharks and rays before with no issues in the past my tank is 108 x 36 x 24 with an external overflow I have two marbled cat sharks with about 20 diff tangs and I just got a blue dot ray any body have any experience with getting them to eat I've had him for a week now and haven't seen him eat yet I've seen him go through the sand but he dosnt go after any food wen I feed the tank I've tried krill and silversides so far . And I was also wondering if anybody makes there own frozen food from seafood you find at the super market.

Blue spot rays are notoriously difficult to get eating and should be avoided. I make my own food for my fish but not for sharks if that's what your asking. You can get a number of things from the seafood department in your local grocery that you could feed you sharks.

[Dmorty217]

Anytime I have seen one on DD it's eating live glass shrimp. I would find some place to source some from

[alprazo]

I would start tube feeds. It probably hasn't eaten since capture.

[Uc21]

Thank you for the responses but I never had to tube feed a ray how do I go about doing that.

[Uc21]

When buying at a super market anything I should stay away from can parasites be a problem I'd like to buy some shrimp squid some type of fish cut it up and freeze it

[Dmorty217]

How big is the ray? Search force feeding a shark, you can see a video alprazo made back in 2012 on how to do it.

[Uc21]

Thank you He's about 6" across tried squid today that didn't work either the the rest of the tank loved it so I guess tube feeding it is any tips on how to keep his barb away

[alprazo]

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/-utGvmvyoGc?rel=0" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

I still have her today - and is about 24 inches long.

[alprazo]

Just flip the ray on its back, the barb will not be an issue. You could also remove it. It is quite easy.

The image is curtesy of Zoodiver

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc218/LilRoush/MSQ/DSC05632.jpg (http://s219.photobucket.com/user/LilRoush/media/MSQ/DSC05632.jpg.html)

[Uc21]

Thank you going go try tomorrow

[Zoodiver]

Hey, I know that guy!

[billsreef]

Hey, I know that guy!

Likely story :lol: :D

[vincentgwg]

Fiberglass tanks are more affordable

[Zoodiver]

Likely story :lol: :D

Ok you got me. But I did meet him one time. :lolspin:

[coralfriend]

Sorry for stolen this thread!
I think all shark lover would like to see any informations related with shark.
Therefore I post it here.
I promised that I would not do it next time!
Just for sharing!
My friend's shark tank(Hong Kong)
(8.5 feet wide, 18 feet long, 5 feet depth)
Two black tip reef shark (Carcharhinus melanopterus)
One white tip reef shark (Triaenodon obesus)
Some Chiloscyllium griseum (Not shown on video because too small)
(Just sharing)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rm_iPWz1IwY

<iframe width="640" height="480" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/Rm_iPWz1IwY" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[TNTtropical]

WOw that is quite the tank!!

[alprazo]

It a nice huge tank but imo those black tips are too big for it. I don't have a ton of experience with ORVs so Maybe zoodiver will chime in, but the multiple half flips of the tails and the jerky movements in the swim pattern tell me that they a utilizing extra of energy navigating the width of the tank.

[Dmorty217]

It a nice huge tank but imo those black tips are too big for it. I don't have a ton of experience with ORVs so Maybe zoodiver will chime in, but the multiple half flips of the tails and the jerky movements in the swim pattern tell me that they a utilizing extra of energy navigating the width of the tank.

There is a store 1 hr from me that's has 3 black tips in a 17,000g tank. I would guess its 20-25 ft long by 8-10ft wide and 7-8ft tall and the tank looked small for them. The tank was much bigger than one of the intex pools you often see used for sharks

[Zoodiver]

That is a great set up for white tip reef sharks. It's not a good black tip reef shark tank at all. You can see it in the way they kick when they are forced to make the tight turn. The jerking, one directional kick is hard on the spinal column. They need enough room to make full lateral swings of the caudal fin (tail) when making a turn. It might not show right away, but by the time you see the physical damage, it will be too late for the sharks.

[Dmorty217]

Can someone with first hand knowledge tell me how large a California horn shark will get? I have read several books now and they all say something different and honestly it's kind of irritating. One book says 40" but then has a disclaimer that most don't get over 30-33" another book claims closer to 48" is max with most getting about 40-42". Such conflicting information out there and it seems that there are only a few active members here that keep sharks or have any knowledge about them. I just recently went to the public aquarium near me and the had 3 port Jackson sharks roughly 2ft each I. A tank that couldn't of been over 200g. I realize they have the knowledge and space to move the sharks when need be but it surprised me to see 3 in what I would consider a small tank.

[Zoodiver]

Can someone with first hand knowledge tell me how large a California horn shark will get? I have read several books now and they all say something different and honestly it's kind of irritating. One book says 40" but then has a disclaimer that most don't get over 30-33" another book claims closer to 48" is max with most getting about 40-42". Such conflicting information out there and it seems that there are only a few active members here that keep sharks or have any knowledge about them. I just recently went to the public aquarium near me and the had 3 port Jackson sharks roughly 2ft each I. A tank that couldn't of been over 200g. I realize they have the knowledge and space to move the sharks when need be but it surprised me to see 3 in what I would consider a small tank.

Depends. The reason for the variation in sizes is due to the range of locations you can find them (temp range). It is very typical of horn sharks that you find in a range of temps. Port Jacksons get much bigger than most think. They can get into the 5 foot range. Cali horns will be 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 ft in most cases.

And sad to say, some aquariums aren't great examples of shark husbandry.

[Dmorty217]

Depends. The reason for the variation in sizes is due to the range of locations you can find them (temp range). It is very typical of horn sharks that you find in a range of temps. Port Jacksons get much bigger than most think. They can get into the 5 foot range. Cali horns will be 2 1/2 - 3 1/2 ft in most cases.

And sad to say, some aquariums aren't great examples of shark husbandry.

Thanks for the reply Zoodiver. Yeah needless to say I wasn't impressed nor did I think what I witnessed with the port Jackson was representative of something that should be duplicated. As far as the Cali horn sharks go its good to hear they for the most part don't get over 3.5ft.

[alprazo]

When you read max size, these are typically records or near records for the species. It doesn't mean that your shark will grow that big. It is like saying the **** sapien can growth up to 7 ft in height and weight over 1000 lbs. all true but uncommon.

I have seen many Cali horns in the 3 ft range. Do realize that growth rates of sharks are accelerated in the captive setting. The will often reach the size of maturity quicker than the wild counterpart, though that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be sexually mature at that size.

Edit. I can't believe that our genus is blocked and replaced with **** when typing it. How pathetic. Another great example of the absurdity of political correctness.

[Dmorty217]

When you read max size, these are typically records or near records for the species. It doesn't mean that your shark will grow that big. It is like saying the **** sapien can growth up to 7 ft in height and weight over 1000 lbs. all true but uncommon.

I have seen many Cali horns in the 3 ft range. Do realize that growth rates of sharks are accelerated in the captive setting. The will often reach the size of maturity quicker than the wild counterpart, though that doesn't necessarily mean that they will be sexually mature at that size.

Edit. I can't believe that our genus is blocked and replaced with **** when typing it. How pathetic. Another great example of the absurdity of political correctness.

I understand what your saying, lower temps help slow growth rates to a point too correct? When I first read your post with the **** I was at a loss for what was suppose to be there then I read further and realized it does the same things with other words that they don't want you to say on here. Matt thanks for the info on the book now I have to figure out how to navigate MFK and start reading...

[Zoodiver]

Average temps and food supply will both factor in to growth rate along with genetics.

[TNTtropical]

As a captive breader of horn sharks for quite some time i can attest that typically they grow to around 3 feet, although i did have a large male for a long time that reached a lengh of 40 inches.

[TNTtropical]

The sizes i just ref were of my cali horn shark breeding program i had years back.

[Dmorty217]

The sizes i just ref were of my cali horn shark breeding program i had years back.

You still have said breeding program

[TNTtropical]

yes i used to breed them back in the day.

[MasterMason_357]

hmmm

[thax]

would any sharks fit in a 6x 3x 2 tank?

[alprazo]

Chain cats

[Jonathan1992]

I've had a bamboo shark. They are very messy but if you have the right filtration they are cool to have.

[Reef1ruler]

I have two brown banded cat sharks in a 300 gallon pool in my basement. I keep a large naso tang, a clownfish, a pinktail trigger, and a sailfin tang in there also. They have all been happy together for the last year and a half(knock on wood).

[Harse Designs]

She didn't make it through the night :(

Sorry to hear looking to do a build similar

[Harse Designs]

I have two brown banded cat sharks in a 300 gallon pool in my basement. I keep a large naso tang, a clownfish, a pinktail trigger, and a sailfin tang in there also. They have all been happy together for the last year and a half(knock on wood).

Lol any sec could turn left lol but I'm thinkin of keep aussie tusk with port jackson or might do a black tip

[WOLFDAY]

Hello everyone, Im wolf and I'm almost ready for add the sharks to my tank. I'm interested in smooth hounds and dog chain sharks. So with that being said can someone point me in the direction of shark experts or knowledgeable suppliers of sharks. This will be a shark only environment. I'm not interested in reef coral and other creatures although they are absolutely beautiful. I'm in the market for a male and a female depending on what adult size that they will become. Thank you in advance for your help....WOLF

[alprazo]

See the reply in your initial post.

[adam.sandor88]

Hey all, I am kind of new to the world of sharks but I am trying to drink from the fire hose of knowledge you have.
I want to start by saying im NOT setting anything up until I move.
I have a 300G rectangle acrylic tank. Im going to run a 75G sump with a MASSIVE skimmer (not decided yet), 2500GPH pump with a zevit RX-z 3.0L reactor.

Id really like a Marble cat or 2. Im thinking 3' sand bed with maybe so GHA in the sump with tons of Live rock, In the display tank I will have enough for them to hide in (secured tightly).
am I on the right track guys? any tips?

[alprazo]

For sharks, live rock will not be your primary source of biological filtration. Small swimming pool sand filters or koi bead filters are a much better option. They are great water polishers/clarifiers too, easy for water changes. Save your money on rock/ lighting and the depth of your sand bed and put it to skimming, a filter with pump, and salt.

[B91302]

I have a question, will the following fish be able to coexist together well in a 375gallon aquarium?

1 Panther Grouper
1 Stingray (any ideas on type?)
1 Snowflake Eel
1 Marbled Bamboo Shark
1 Black Banded Cat Shark

Thanks for the help!

[alprazo]

For a 375, stick with cat sharks. The coral, marbled, or the Bali are you best bets. The brown banded gets rather large. A gray bamboo or Arabian are smaller options. As for fish it is hit or miss. I've never had luck period. So I avoid all fish. I know others that have with your selections. Groupers are ridiculous aggressive feeders though and may out compete the Sharks. As for the ray, the Cortez is a good small ray but they like the temps a little lower. Avoid torpedoes and blue spotted ribbon tail rays, they have a bad track record.

[krj-1168]

Agreed - for a 375 gallon tank, the tropical catsharks, and smaller bamboos are the best choice. Every other shark will out grow this tank.

But then it also depends on the exact shape and dimensions of the 375 gallon.

[B91302]

Will the eel be okay with the sharks? Thanks for the help!!

[alprazo]

Typically yes

[Dmorty217]

Typically yes

Do you personally recommend sand for a Epaulette, even if it's only 1" of sand? I found a CB Epaulette that I'm picking up in March and wanted to ask those in the know. Seem to get conflicting information about it. Tank is 7ftx6ftx2ft

[B91302]

Sounds like a plan. 1 black-banded coral cat shark and 1 marbled cat shark.

[griseum]

Not sure how Alprazo feels about sand, but I try to have at least a shallow sand bed in shark and Ray tanks. The benthic sharks and especially rays hunt for their prey items by rooting around in the sand. They move the sand around to reveal any hidden worms or polychaetes, and other small inverts hidden beneath.
I think it's a matter of comfort more than anything else. I also notice with eppies and bamboos, that when piling atop each other to sleep, an instinctual moving of the sand and/or Live rock is done, to bury their heads and get "cozy".
Bare bottoms, in my experience and in talking with other local shark keepers, have lead to irritation (or just reddening) of the belly. I'm not positive about the cause behind this but it could be bacterial or bacterial slime related.

[Dmorty217]

Not sure how Alprazo feels about sand, but I try to have at least a shallow sand bed in shark and Ray tanks. The benthic sharks and especially rays hunt for their prey items by rooting around in the sand. They move the sand around to reveal any hidden worms or polychaetes, and other small inverts hidden beneath.
I think it's a matter of comfort more than anything else. I also notice with eppies and bamboos, that when piling atop each other to sleep, an instinctual moving of the sand and/or Live rock is done, to bury their heads and get "cozy".
Bare bottoms, in my experience and in talking with other local shark keepers, have lead to irritation (or just reddening) of the belly. I'm not positive about the cause behind this but it could be bacterial or bacterial slime related.

Thanks for the reply. Looks like sand will be going in the tank after all. How much do you think is enough? 1" ?

[griseum]

Just about. Maybe a bit less. Just enough to cover the bottom well enough and at the same time not enough for large waste and particulate to get trapped and/or anaerobic zones and hydrogen sulfide to begin forming, which are then easily released.

[Dmorty217]

Thanks Griseum

[alprazo]

I my big tank I have about 2" of river pebbles that range from 1/4 to 3/4 inch stones. Then I have about 1/2 of sand. I have an upflow return in the bed using 1.5 inch pvc. The stone covers the pipe grid.

[natedogg]

Hello all, great thread. Can somebody PM retailers that sale benthic sharks? Thanks!

[jglabman45]

I have a 500 gallon tank with rounded sides and i wan to put a shark in it that will last its whole lifetime, what kind of shark would you buy

[tonysi]

I have a 500 gallon tank with rounded sides and i wan to put a shark in it that will last its whole lifetime, what kind of shark would you buy

If you post up the dimensions of your tank the pros would be better able to assist you in what species would be best. I had a coral cat shark- Atelomycterus Marmotatus,in a 10 foot long by 3 foot wide by 2 ft tall he was pretty content looking in there but I kind of felt he would have liked some more room.

[alprazo]

I agree dimensions would be helpful.

[LadAShark]

I am looking to get a Leopard catshark, not to be confused with the Leopard shark which is humongous. Does anybody know where I might be able to procure one? These guys don't grow much over 3 feet and they were really the sharks that got me interested in sharkkeeping originally, yet I can't seem to find them for sale anywhere.

[alprazo]

Welcome to the board. Not sure if you are seriously interested because these are now available through a vendor for the first time. Probably looking at $10,000 USD retail for a pair. They come only from a protected habitat so they have been probably poached. They are also temperate so they must be kept at 60F. In buying these you are likely Funding some illicit activity and poaching animals is not the biggest concern. Maybe one day South Africa will release some captive beed cats, but as I understand it, these are not. I could be completely wrong though.

[LadAShark]

Welcome to the board. Not sure if you are seriously interested because these are now available through a vendor for the first time. Probably looking at $10,000 USD retail for a pair. They come only from a protected habitat so they have been probably poached. They are also temperate so they must be kept at 60F. In buying these you are likely Funding some illicit activity and poaching animals is not the biggest concern. Maybe one day South Africa will release some captive beed cats, but as I understand it, these are not. I could be completely wrong though.

I sure do hope you are completely wrong, because considering what you just said, I refuse to buy one if such is really the case.

[griseum]

Most of the cats harks that seem the most interesting and extraordinary are never brought in. On one hand, as Alprazo said, almost all except for the 3 or 4 Atelomycterus cars harks are subtropical to Coldwater animals. The other reason is many are also found in protected areas, to boot! South Africa is home to some of the most interesting smaller sharks. Same goes for Australia and PNG. It's a shame that there aren't more captive breeding projects taking place with these species but even with the hardier, tropical sharks it's not a cost effective endeavor. As a hobbiest it's fantastic to breed sharks (and fish) !

[LadAShark]

Most of the cats harks that seem the most interesting and extraordinary are never brought in. On one hand, as Alprazo said, almost all except for the 3 or 4 Atelomycterus cars harks are subtropical to Coldwater animals. The other reason is many are also found in protected areas, to boot! South Africa is home to some of the most interesting smaller sharks. Same goes for Australia and PNG. It's a shame that there aren't more captive breeding projects taking place with these species but even with the hardier, tropical sharks it's not a cost effective endeavor. As a hobbiest it's fantastic to breed sharks (and fish) !

Yeah I've done a lot kore research and found out that South Africa, Australia, and Papua New Guinea has many of cool catsharks under check. And breeding sharks is basically not profitable as they simply don't reproduce fast enough and their offspring aren't worth enough to compensate for their slower reproduction rates. For now I am going to settle for the tropical sharks that I can actually obtain (coral cat, marbled cat, balinese cat, epaulette, and whitespotted bamboo shark).

Truth is, the leopard catshark I was interested in not because I heard it just recently became available, but rather because that was the shark I had heard of several years back that got me interested in shark keeping. That I posted inquiring about them a week after they became available through a vendor is sheer coincidence, I had no idea that they became available or even weren't available beforehand in the first place! :eek1::hmm4:

[SueAndHerZoo]

Hi all.
I hatched a shark from the egg and he's now four weeks old. Eating like a pig and growing like a horse. Today I moved him into a larger tank and in there I have a medium-sized serpent star. I'm intrigued/concerned about the relationship...... the starfish and the shark are next to each other, touching, and neither one seems to be moving. Maybe they both like the same hiding spot but I would think one of them would have moved but they star has his tentacles over the shark, one under the shark, etc.

Are either one of them going to hurt the other? I really didn't think there was a compatibility problem with a serpent star and shark but I can't help but wonder why they are hanging together.
Sue

[alprazo]

they should be fine together

[SueAndHerZoo]

they should be fine together

OK, thanks. The shark is very timid and shy today but hopefully it's because he's in a new tank with new tank mates ... lots of new stuff to get acclimated to.
Sue

[alprazo]

It will be more active at night.

[griseum]

I my big tank I have about 2" of river pebbles that range from 1/4 to 3/4 inch stones. Then I have about 1/2 of sand. I have an upflow return in the bed using 1.5 inch pvc. The stone covers the pipe grid.

Does this function similar to a plenum or reverse undergravel filter?
Sounds interesting!

[Taahirs]

Right guys. So I've got an empty tank. Just under 400g excl sump, about 450 incl.

Having done the whole sps thing it's time to go predator. Got a tunze 9430 skimmer rated for 800g. Think this should be good.

Looking at getting one type of shark. Epaulette, coral cat shark or Hasselts bamboo shark (Chiloscyllium hasseltii)

So the plan is to keep the shark with :

Blue spotted ray
Miniatus Grouper
Orange spotted Rabbitfish
Trio of convict tangs
Unicorn tang
Harlequin tusk
Oriental sweetlips

Could someone also advise the compatibility of blue throat triggers, Volitans lionfish, Quoyi Parrot fish and Snowflake eels. Oh, and an emperor angel.

Maybe I could substitute some of those in.

Thanks.

[Taahirs]

Oh. Dimentions are 1.8x1mx80cm
In inches:

72x40x30

[Pufferfish3]

)-: that is sad

[alprazo]

Does this function similar to a plenum or reverse undergravel filter?
Sounds interesting!

More in the line of a reverse under gravel. The idea is to aerate the bed and help put debris into the water column. I lifted the design from Ripley's Aquarium in Toronto.

[davelin315]

Right guys. So I've got an empty tank. Just under 400g excl sump, about 450 incl.

Having done the whole sps thing it's time to go predator. Got a tunze 9430 skimmer rated for 800g. Think this should be good.

Looking at getting one type of shark. Epaulette, coral cat shark or Hasselts bamboo shark (Chiloscyllium hasseltii)

So the plan is to keep the shark with :

Blue spotted ray
Miniatus Grouper
Orange spotted Rabbitfish
Trio of convict tangs
Unicorn tang
Harlequin tusk
Oriental sweetlips

Could someone also advise the compatibility of blue throat triggers, Volitans lionfish, Quoyi Parrot fish and Snowflake eels. Oh, and an emperor angel.

Maybe I could substitute some of those in.

Thanks.

I would not keep a trigger with a shark or ray. They can nip the fins and tails and cause all kinds of problems. About 20 years ago I had plans in place to build a large lagoon in my basement for sharks and rays and was quarantining a bat ray with a small trigger (maybe 3-4" Picasso) and it nipped the tail of the ray and it jumped over my 18" high protective fence, total of 2' above water level.

I have also found eels to be problematic with smaller shark unless they are significantly smaller. Individuals will vary in temperament, but it can prove to be very hard to remove an eel once they are in the system and damage can be done very quickly.

Lionfish can also be tricky as sharks and rays in captivity are somewhat indiscriminate swimmers in my experience based on typical tank size and stray voltage and a sting can be fatal.

[griseum]

More in the line of a reverse under gravel. The idea is to aerate the bed and help put debris into the water column. I lifted the design from Ripley's Aquarium in Toronto.

Sounds like an interesting concept!


Right guys. So I've got an empty tank. Just under 400g excl sump, about 450 incl.

Having done the whole sps thing it's time to go predator. Got a tunze 9430 skimmer rated for 800g. Think this should be good.

Looking at getting one type of shark. Epaulette, coral cat shark or Hasselts bamboo shark (Chiloscyllium hasseltii)

So the plan is to keep the shark with :

Blue spotted ray
Miniatus Grouper
Orange spotted Rabbitfish
Trio of convict tangs
Unicorn tang
Harlequin tusk
Oriental sweetlips

Could someone also advise the compatibility of blue throat triggers, Volitans lionfish, Quoyi Parrot fish and Snowflake eels. Oh, and an emperor angel.

Maybe I could substitute some of those in.

Thanks.



Sorry for the delay but I replied to your PM.

Stay away from Hasselts bamboos... I don't think I have ever heard of them being kept successfully, EVER. I've tried my hand with them and even when they are eating for you, which is a very difficult measure, they are still liable to croak for no apparent reason. Most of the Hasselt's or Indo Bamboos I have seen have been under 6 inches in length and extremely skinny. If I were to see an adult or sub-adult for sale I might try again, but only if the chain of collection to store was clear, it ate in front of me on seperate occasions and was willing to be held at the store, even if a small deposit was necessary.

[1Sharklagoon]

I have built a 12 ft long 5 ft wide 3 ft deep Lagoon for sharks and eels in my basement. Have zebra moray about 3ft big girl had for 4 yrs tough s.o.b 2ft sharptail snake eel never stops moving and last a 1 ft marble shark. Swims all night long all over. What would you put next? New to sight as soon as I get cleared I'll post pics.

[ohmygod]

the bamboo shark. it doesnt look like a shark :)

[JaihWill]

I have built a 12 ft long 5 ft wide 3 ft deep Lagoon for sharks and eels in my basement. Have zebra moray about 3ft big girl had for 4 yrs tough s.o.b 2ft sharptail snake eel never stops moving and last a 1 ft marble shark. Swims all night long all over. What would you put next? New to sight as soon as I get cleared I'll post pics.



Any pics??


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[codydemmel4]

There is a custom tank in my area that is being sold very cheap, I am thinking of buying it and doing a sting ray tank with some tangs and lionfish.

would i be able to keep a california stingray in a tank that is 8 feet long, 2 feet wide and only 16 inches tall???

What other things could I keep in this tank? Any sharks, tangs, lionfish?

[FinnCole]

There is a custom tank in my area that is being sold very cheap, I am thinking of buying it and doing a sting ray tank with some tangs and lionfish.

would i be able to keep a california stingray in a tank that is 8 feet long, 2 feet wide and only 16 inches tall???

What other things could I keep in this tank? Any sharks, tangs, lionfish?
Try a large puffer

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[slay]

If anyone has shark questions and can't find answers (I realize this forum has a resident shark expert, but if he's busy lol), I have 20 years of experience of personal shark (previously I cared for a lemon shark, a nurse shark (who went to West Edmonton Mall when it outgrew our system) and several blacktip/grey reef sharks and leopard sharks).

I currently have a brownbanded bamboo, a marbled and a chain cat shark (how many people have had a captive bred shark breeder, much less a captive bred chain shark breeder near them!)) and have experience with marine ray care (I had a bluespotted ribbontail ray for about three years until the great east coast power outage of August '03, and a Fiddler ray from 2003-2016).

I'm open for all shark or ray related questions, just be warned my answers will honest and in the best interest of the animal!

[PortWolf]

Just brazing over the thought of a shark tank.

I'm looking at maybe keeping cat sharks, or walking, some Ray's and a snowflake eel.
First off I ask if that's compatible?

Then I'm curious if there's a list of fish that can be kept with them?

This will be a large round tank 12'+ diameter fiberglass & flow coat with glass at the top 3'.

I may consider rockwork in the center for hiding.

Since I haven't looked in depth yet I'm just gathering feedback. I will however be investigating that's why I'm here.

[slay]

Just brazing over the thought of a shark tank.

I'm looking at maybe keeping cat sharks, or walking, some Ray's and a snowflake eel.
First off I ask if that's compatible?

Then I'm curious if there's a list of fish that can be kept with them?

This will be a large round tank 12'+ diameter fiberglass & flow coat with glass at the top 3'.

I may consider rockwork in the center for hiding.

Since I haven't looked in depth yet I'm just gathering feedback. I will however be investigating that's why I'm here.

The smaller sharks appropriately kept in the hobby (bamboo sharks, cat sharks, epaulettes, horn sharks/port jacksons on the larger less common end) and the rays generally kept in the hobby generally get on fine. They do occasionally sell wobbegongs, which generally grow comparatively large (5 or 6 feet long), and wobbegongs definitely have the potential to go after smaller sharks.

As for a snowflake eel, eels are common tank makes, but occasionally hit and miss. While the rule of thumb for both of them is if it can fit in it's mouth there's the risk it will end up in it's mouth, I have seen this combo done successfully multiple times, but I've also heard of a coral catshark (probably the most common species of actual catshark sold in the hobby) biting off the tail of a snowflake eel. The key is mostly in appropriate sizing.

There isn't so much a list as some guidelines for tank mates - fish that are "pickers". like Angels, Triggers and Puffers all may pick at a shark, that is nip at it's fins and/or eyes, Triggers and Puffers especially. They are generally out. Some Butterflies may exhibit the same behavior towards benthic sharks, Many people don't like the risk lionfish present - a lionfish will almost certainly leave a shark alone, but since most of the sharks kept in the hobby are much more active at night there is the potential for shark to be stung. I personally have kept the two (sharks and lionfishes) together for over 15 years with no issues, but, there's always risk. Most of the tangs common to the hobby are good tank mates, but there are a few tangs which grow very large that are aggressive and I'd call questionable.

From the other perspective, sharks may eat anything small enough to fit in their mouth - and they may give even larger fish a trial bite before deciding against it.

I'd say good tank mates include the aforementioned tangs, some wrasses (green bird wrasse is a favorite, big enough to not be eaten but won't harass a shark), groupers, hogfish (many of which are really striking, just not that commonly kept, in part due to larger size), eels and with caution, lionfish.

Have you ever kept such a large tank before? Based on the measurements you describe you are looking at a minimum 2500-3000 gallon tank. When you get that big, the costs get pretty big as well, even if it's more of a pond style setup.

Make sure you really want to keep sharks - I love them and have about 18 years or so experience with them, and to be honest, I'm not sure if, given the chance, I'd even want a 12' diameter shark pond - I'm thinking of all the costs and effort involved (among other things). Hopefully you understand that the sharks seen in the hobby are mostly relatively inactive during the day - they spend most of the day time in hiding spots or just sitting on the bottom. In that sense they don't make the most fantastic display animals.

They are animals to keep because you love them, and you could make an awesome display out of the idea. But since it sounds like you haven't kept them before, make sure it's really what you want to do before going to the expense and trouble.

[PortWolf]

Yea, I'm pretty sure, I've been narrowing it down to maybe zebra eel, fiddler rays and cat sharks. I don't think 3,380 gallons would be large enough for bat rays which I'll leave to the public aquarium.

There will be a central stand pipe setup and will be putting rocks work secured in place with a tall wide ledge for viewable hiding in the center. Brs has 30+ inch shelf rock dry.

Was looking at rock anemones and low growing coral like green star polyps but I'm still researching that.

This will be a center piece tank, I'm building a house soon and this will be in the basement bar and recreational area.

Anyway feedback?

[PortWolf]

Been looking at rotary drum filters and bead filters that don't use blowers.

I think I can have the waste water outlet run into a 50 micron sock box then the water plum back into a D ended seagrass refugium and use bead filters to polish the water that way I can do water changes with the filter back flush.

I can have the rdf high pressure pump use the polished tank water.

I had looked at sieve filters but there 200-300 micron screens where an rdf can be 50 micron.

I haven't touched on the skimmer.

All this may sound outrageous but aquaculture is a hobby of mine and I'd like to oversize for when I retire in a few years and have it all in place.

[alprazo]

PortWolf -

I am a big fan of Bead filters, I have been running an Advantage bead filter on my 3000 gal for over 5 years. The blower is excellent and saves a ton of water in the backwash. I went ahead last year and replaced my Ultima II filter in my Koi pond with the Advantage. It does a good job polishing the water and provides more than enough biological support. I feed about 2 pounds of menhaden every other day, a terribly oily, messy, food.

Because of space constraints, my skimmer is rated for only 1500 gallons but I run ozone 12 hours a day and together, they seems to get the job done. The ozone is on a YSI 5200 multi parameter controller.

Sharks, and especially rays are terrible dirty eaters and produce a lot of waste. I would think the micron sock filters could become a maintenance nightmare.

[Pslreefer]

True Coral Cat shark in a 180g reef tank. K go!

[PortWolf]

Yea, I'm skipping the Blower because of saltwater surface tension, as for the socks they just separate the waste and reuse the water from the rotary drum filter flush, which will allow me to retain water without changing salinity in the system. The bead filter will further filter the water for clarity and prevent the rotary drum filter spray nozzles from clogging again, retaining the water salinity.

Since the socks only have a small amount of water passing through them they shouldn't be a clogging concern, but I may fabricate a sieve filter instead just for reduced maintenance, I found 50 micron sieve screens.

I look at sharks and rays, even seahorses as being as messy as koi or goldfish LMAO.

[alprazo]

Yea, I'm skipping the Blower because of saltwater surface tension.

Not sure I understand. The blower is only used during the backwash cycle and while the pumps are temporarily off. The blower tumbles and breaks up clumped media in the filter so that less water is needed to flush it.

I looked at sieve filters at one time. They were expensive but if you can create your own, it's worth a try. It does not takes much food or time to pollute 3000 gal of water when feeding sharks, but takes a while to clarify it.

[PortWolf]

Well, since the bead filter will be plumbed into the return, any air bubbles trapped in the filter after backwash would be a problem.

I actually have a filter in mind that clears both hurdles or tumbling the media without wasting water.

[alprazo]

I actually have a filter in mind that clears both hurdles or tumbling the media without wasting water.

Excellent, good luck and keep us posted on how it works.

[thomashtom]

Hi might have to treat my DT with CP. Can i use CP with a epaulette shark and 3 eels in the tank? Its a large system (96by36by32) and cannot quarantine everyone. I have fish (tangs ,angels) in other tanks that ready to go back in but i am not sure i totally eradicated an Ich infestation from about 6 months ago. I have tons of rock that i can take out but it would be close to impossible to get all the sand out which could cause me problems. Thanks for your help. Tom

[alprazo]

Yes,. No problems IME

[crav]

Are there any sharks which can be housed properly in a 120g tank? 5'x20''x2'

[Pslreefer]

Are there any sharks which can be housed properly in a 120g tank? 5'x20''x2'



Nope.


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[alprazo]

Are there any sharks which can be housed properly in a 120g tank? 5'x20''x2'

It might be tight, but my chain cat sharks seem to have plenty of room in my 300 gal.