BRS Tested Some Carbon Blocks: I'm Testing Them, You Should Too.

[tkeracer619]

If you haven't seen this video BRS published and your municipal water supply uses chloramines you may find it interesting. I constantly battle chloramines. After moving the tank into my new home the carbon blocks exhausted rapidly caatching me off guard, killing an amazing tank in 4 days. It's still something I test twice every time I operate my RO.

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/GZQBDqZzu04" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

In my particular situation I was able to get chloramine breakthrough after a short period even though I was using 2 chloramine blocks and a .5 micron block. On the advice of a local water supplier I removed my booster pump. I went from .5gpm to .17gpm. After 10 minutes there were no detectable chloramines getting through. I will likely be adding a whole house style system in front of my rodi but before I make that decision I want to give all of these different filters I have tried a fair shot with the lower flow, and this time I am going to publish it here.

I would like to see your results as well so if anyone wants to add to the thread feel free. Which one is the best? I'm pretty sure I already know who my winner and losers will be but there may be some surprises.

I'm not entirely sure the format we should use but I plan on changing all of the blocks at the same time. When it is time for a filter change I will swap out the first carbon block with one of the many different chloramine blocks available. If you want in on this "experiment" which is surely to be as fun as watching painted grass grow lets see if we can come up with something useful.

This is what I have now...
1).5 micron sediment (Spectrapure)
2)1 micron Chloraguard (Buckeye Hydro)
3)1 micron Chlorplus (Spectrapure)
4).5 micron carbon block (Spectrapure)

[Breadman03]

Something like a 20" carbon block may provide good results by allowing longer contact time with higher flow rate.

20 inch housing (http://www.amazon.com/Purenex-WH-20BB-20-Inch-Carbon-Filter/dp/B000I62EW8#)

20" Spectrapure carbon block (http://spectrapure.com/SpectraPure-20-inch-0.5-Micron-Carbon-Block-Filter-Cartridge)

[asonitez]

My Water is Crystal Clear. My Sand is Pristine White. My corals and snail... tend to look like they are barely holding on. I do water changes every week and I'm dosing everything to perfection. I have thousands in equipment.

I am not successful because of chloramines. Chloramines is never something I actually considered to be a major issue for me. I mean in my old apt I had low TDS and in my new apt I have even lower tds. I also make and mix/gas my RO water in a large container before using in my reef. I THOUGHT my carbon blocks were taking care of chloramines and chlorine. WELL.....

After viewing the BRS video I immediately picked up a Lamotte test on the way home and tested. It turned purple so fast I almost fainted. My wife said my face looked as if I was told my dog died and got kicked in the stomach at the same time. I ordered the BRS ultra system for 309 shipped almost immediately.

There is something I was pleasantly surprised with! I owned a PureWaterClub R/O system that I thought was sufficient but after getting the BRS system I was clearly mistaken. The BRS system trumps the PWC stuff in every way (including cost...lol.)

4 Massive water changes. Spread 1 week apart and over 250 Gallons changed... My tank and the corals made such a bounce back that I'm wondering if I had chloramines in my OLD apt that never made me as successful as I could be. My DI resin and carbon blocks are holding but I did get together with a few friends and purchased an entire case of carbon blocks that brough the price down significantly.


I'm running
Sediment
BRS CARBON/CHLORAMINE 1 micron
BRS CARBON/CHLORAMINE 1 micron
75 GPD
75GPD Water Saver
DI Resin 1
DI Resin 2
Carbon (for Drinking) <<-- Will probably last forever.

[tkeracer619]

I bet a bunch of people out there are dealing with this and don't realize it.

[MMM33732]

Can you simply use a dechlor like freshwater setups usually add to tap water to remove/detoxify any chloramines left in RODI water?

[DogueDeBordeaux]

tkeracer619

How did you have the booster pump plumbed?
Was it in between the last canister filter and membrane?
Or, feeding from water supply to first canister (sediment filter).

I am do for a filter/membrane change.
I was also thinking about adding a booster pump. I thought the booster was going to result in better quality and water production.

It would be nice to know how the spectrapure carbon would do compared to the BRS universal carbon.

[mordibv]

Sorry it happened to you. I asked on this forum and another about this subject recently . The RO/DI person never answered the question but stated he'd written/ 2500 posts and I should search for the answer . I think the test strips are a good way to check.
I ran a 7 stage unit with 2 sediment ,1 0.5 carbon block ,1 CC carbon cart,75 GPD RO ,to 2 Di units . I never had any issues that I am aware of . I changed my filters quicker than most ppl every 3 months and I only made water every two weeks . I never made than 30 gallons per 2 weeks .It is a interesting subject . I was under the impression as long as the carbon breaks the bond the ammonia turns into a gas hence no worries . I guess the issue is breaking the bond . I have also read others stating they always used prime after ro/di product water with no ill effects.I donated this unit to a noob reefer so I need to get another unit . I am pretty sure I know what brand it won't be .

Here was my slapped together unit . One was a maxima unit and one was a di unit .


http://i239.photobucket.com/albums/ff4/mordibv/57%20illuminata/phonepics139.jpg (http://s239.photobucket.com/user/mordibv/media/57%20illuminata/phonepics139.jpg.html)

[tkeracer619]

tkeracer619

How did you have the booster pump plumbed?


I had it between the sediment and the first carbon block. If you have chloramines a booster pump isn't an option unless you are seriously lacking in water pressure. I may have lost .5% rejection on my 99% membrane after removing the pump (it's still 99%).

Spectrapure has an awesome deal running right now on their chloramine system. If you go that route order it with the 99% membrane. Sucks someone told you that. For some reason this is something few companies want to address. I am sure they get tired of the same questions over and over but that is what happens when you don't put real data out there. The marketing surrounding this is silly. It really shouldn't be that difficult.

[shermanator]

Couldn't you put the booster after the carbon blocks and before the membrane? You could even put a pressure tank between the carbon filters and the pump to make sure you have adequate post-filter water to keep up with the pump's demand.

I don't have chloramines (I have a well which has it's own problems...), but doesn't sparging help with chloramines? You could collect a trash can full of RO water, sparge with a venturi pump (or airstone) and then pump it to your DI canisters. I do something like that due to super high CO2 levels.

[tkeracer619]

I don't think there is a difference where you put it, it's going to push more water decreasing contact time.

[Raul-7]

I will be testing out UV to eliminate chloramines.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2482721

I'll let you know how it works out.

[shermanator]

Have you considered thiosulfate addition to your water source (prior to RO)? Of course, it would require collecting water and would make any automation difficult.

[tkeracer619]

I will be testing out UV to eliminate chloramines.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2482721

I'll let you know how it works out.

I'm already following along on that one :thumbsup:

Have you considered thiosulfate addition to your water source (prior to RO)? Of course, it would require collecting water and would make any automation difficult.

Nah, but I will look into it. I have a 130gal ace roto-mold tank that isn't in use and I could fit it in the room. I was thinking of just using it to increase water temp. I'm also not sure how quick the gasses come out of solution. I could run my ro for about 12 hours on that amount of water.

[mirkus]

Can you simply use a dechlor like freshwater setups usually add to tap water to remove/detoxify any chloramines left in RODI water?

I'm with this one. Seems like the easiest thing to do is just add some dechlor or prime to top off or water changes to detoxify chloramine. Am I missing something?

[amcvay1979]

I currently have one of these installed prior to my RODI setup;

http://www.ecodynewatertreatment.com/central-water/how-it-works/

I purchased it prior to getting my reef tank setup, but I'm hoping it at least will help with chlorine removal. It was about $300 and super simple to install. No filters to replace. Regen cycle is programmed for 3 a.m. every 7 days for me.

I'll get some of the chlorine test strips and test my input water prior to this filter, after this filter and out of my RODI drain to see if it's helping and post the results.

[Mrs. Music]

I think part of the problem is that chlorine, and chloramines can damage the membrane and shorten it's lifespan. And they are expensive.

[tkeracer619]

i think part of the problem is that chlorine, and chloramines can damage the membrane and shorten it's lifespan. And they are expensive.

+1

[outssider]

I currently have one of these installed prior to my RODI setup;

http://www.ecodynewatertreatment.com/central-water/how-it-works/

I purchased it prior to getting my reef tank setup, but I'm hoping it at least will help with chlorine removal. It was about $300 and super simple to install. No filters to replace. Regen cycle is programmed for 3 a.m. every 7 days for me.

I'll get some of the chlorine test strips and test my input water prior to this filter, after this filter and out of my RODI drain to see if it's helping and post the results.

it's using carbon and the carbon doesn't need to be replaced??? That don't sound right

[amcvay1979]

There's a regeneration process. Not 100% sure how it works but it does take the swimming pool taste out of the drinking water in the whole house.

[Rybren]

Can you simply use a dechlor like freshwater setups usually add to tap water to remove/detoxify any chloramines left in RODI water?

I'm with this one. Seems like the easiest thing to do is just add some dechlor or prime to top off or water changes to detoxify chloramine. Am I missing something?

I ran my tanks on tapwater for my first couple of years of reefkeeping. My municipality uses chloramines and I used Prime on all of my water without issue. I see no reason why someone couldn't use it on their RO/DI product water if they were concerned about chloramines getting through.

I have a BRS Chloramine Plus unit, but for the last couple of years, I've just been using two regular carbon blocks that I pick up at HD. So far, so good.

[tkeracer619]

OK so change of pace... I put all of the cartridges for this test in my shopping cart(s) and laughed at the price, not in a good way...

No more games... Instead of ordering all these little cartridges I ordered something more appropriate for my hassles.


A 1micron Pentek ChlorPlus-20BB and a size 4 Pentek Big Blue Housing. A size 1 Pentek Chlorplus weighs 1lb, a size 4 Chlorplus weighs 20lbs.
http://www.purewatergazette.net/blog/wp-content/uploads/2014/07/filter-housings.jpg

I'll keep the 10" 1micron pentek and a .5 mircron block for polishing.

[jason2459]

Holy crap I would not have guessed that weight. That's probably going to be more surprising to me then anything else that comes out of this testing. HA!

[tkeracer619]

Yeah, The bracket to hold one is 3/16" thick steel :lol:. Made in America :)

[tkeracer619]

A 1micron Chlorplus 20" Big Blue Carbon Block. This fits a 20"x4.5" size 4 housing. I'm installing this sucker today, the housing had been back ordered and I was away for a couple days so I am just getting to it now. Total cost for the filter, housing, and wrench was about $175.

https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8734/16822792981_993d8968e2_n.jpg

[tkeracer619]

also not sure how quick the gasses come out of solution.

The half life can be up to 23 days. Given the 4ppm limit it could take up to 161 days before my test kit would read zero if I stored the water to try and remove the chloramines via degassing.

[amcvay1979]

This is old and I'm kind of late to the party, but a few months back I commented that I had a Whirlpool Whole Home filter that is supposed to remove some chlorine, then that goes into a softener, and then my RO/DI unit. I'm happy to report that after all of this, I tested hardness, total chlorine and iron, all were at zero so while I was skeptical of the Whole Home filter (no filters to replace) but it seems to be actually doing it's job. At most, I'm excited because this should mean my RO Prefilters will last longer and further protect my membrane. When I do replace them I'll be using the BRS blocks.

[ChrisKirkland]

So what effect does CHLORAMINE have on our systems if it isnt completely removed?

[KingTriton1]

Wow. Thanks tkeracer619 for passing this along!

[amcvay1979]

So what effect does CHLORAMINE have on our systems if it isnt completely removed?

Chloramines are poison to fish and inverts.

[tkeracer619]

Wow. Thanks tkeracer619 for passing this along!

Thanks. I have produced about 2000 gallons of water using the large size 4 chlorplus20BB. Have re-installed my booster pump. Have re-installed my dual membranes. Zero breakthrough. I'm not going back! Worth every penny for the upgrade.

Chloramines will kill your tank. It is ammonia bound to chlorine. Incomplete removal at the carbon stage will damage the membrane and rapidly exhaust your DI.

I'm still using the same DI carts after 2000 gallons.

I completely recommend anyone dealing with chloramines to consider using one of these massive carbon blocks or even adding a whole house filtration system. Chloramines are nasty for your tank and you.

[KingTriton1]

Not sure if I have chloramines yet, but will fine out rather soon once the test kits arrive. That said if I do stumble across them would you recommend:

one or two 20'' carbon blocks before the RO? or two 10'' carbon blocks?

[africangrey]

got the lamonte low range test strip but don't really know how to use it, does the pad with felt portion go into water because the results don't register anything even with water coming out of tap. Live in San Jose, CA where the water company claims to use chloramine

[amcvay1979]

Not sure if I have chloramines yet, but will fine out rather soon once the test kits arrive. That said if I do stumble across them would you recommend:

one or two 20'' carbon blocks before the RO? or two 10'' carbon blocks?

You may want to look into the whole house filter option from Whirlpool. No filters to replace, and mine removes all chlorine when I test it. I like that it regenerates itself on a timer and there's not cartridges to replace.

2 20 inch carbon blocks would be more than adequate, but you'll need to monitor your chlorine output after the membrane to determine when to change them, etc.

[tkeracer619]

I've found tests can be hit or miss. I've never used the lamonte kit unfortunately.

What you need is a total chlorine test kit and a total ammonia test kit. I find the cheepo ammonia test strips from walmart register, particularly after ro and before di. But the also register the tap.

I use a total chlorine test kit from spectrapure.

I'm finding a single chlorplus20BB will last a long time under normal circumstances. Flow rates are your enemy. I find the 10" size 1 carts to be useless and a waste of money for chloramines. People will argue with me and that's fine, every system is different, but I have found breakthrough within a few hundred gallons and they are pricey. I've found most of the well known shops don't really have a good grasp on it and will just tell you what their marketing rep told them. None of them were able to give actual tested data.

A whole house setup will save the plumbing in your house as well, chloramines trash pipes.

[KingTriton1]

Interesting. Do you know if Pentek's 20'' filter housing are compatible with my Spectrapure unit which would allow the transition?

[tkeracer619]

Nah, there isn't. The filter weighs a lot, 20 or so lbs. The bracket is 5/16" steel.

I didn't want to mess with my spectrapure unit so I added an additional 10" chamber for a sediment. Then I fed that into the size 4 canister, then fed that into the spectrapure unit.

If you don't mind taking the spectrapure unit apart you could separate the sediment from it and turn the housing 90deg, then put john guest fittings on it so you could install the size 4 can in between the sediment and first carbon block. I still have the 10" chlorplus and .5 micron blocks in the spectrapure unit for when this big cart does start to see breakthrough.

So how I have mine setup is...

10" Sediment > Booster Pump > Chlorplus20BB > 10" Chlorplus > 10" Chlorplus > .5micron carbon > Spectrapure 99% Membrane > Spectrapure 99% Membrane > Maxcap SuperDI > Maxcap Silicabuster > Finally... a Mixed bed Resin on a recirc loop in the storage tank.

Did I overdo it... I don't think so :lol:

[KingTriton1]

Gotcha, pretty creative on the 90 degree housing attached to another unit idea. Id probably just attach them both to the wall with a connection in-between given my space. So what unit are you having your chlorplus20BB in? I take it you have three separate setups consisting of Sediment - Chlorapus20BB - Spectrapure (which is holding 3 10'' carbons before the RO)?

[tkeracer619]

Yeah, 3 separate units. I had most all of it laying around except for the big blue.

I use this beast. Great quality.
http://www.amazon.com/Pentek-150467-Filter-Housing-Pressure/dp/B0014C3IPW

and the bracket...
http://www.amazon.com/Housing-Bracket-blue-filter-housings/dp/B004O3OP2S/ref=pd_sim_328_2?ie=UTF8&refRID=14ZEA54SAF8KKF8XSSGP

[KingTriton1]

Thanks for the direct links. Now with this setup is the booster pump a requirement or is that just because of pressure issues not retaining to the added setup.

[africangrey]

tkeracer619, where did you get the chlorplus 20BB, maybe you've mentioned somewhere, thanks.

[tkeracer619]

Dual membranes, simply a production thing. A booster pump is counter productive in terms of chloramine removal, the slower the better. But considering how many gallons I have gotten out of it compared to the filters and DI I was chewing up prior to it any losses are negligible to me at this point. This dropped my cost per gallon by many fold. When I make water I make between 150 to 400 gallons at a time. I do have good pressure from the city as well. The pressure drop of the 20bb cart is iirc 1psi so no biggie.

I have two 360gal setups, a 90gal bta tank, and roughly 500 gallons of QT space. Can store 200gals of fresh mixed saltwater and 200gals of di.

[tkeracer619]

tkeracer619, where did you get the chlorplus 20BB, maybe you've mentioned somewhere, thanks.

I got mine here, cheaper than amazon.
https://www.freshwatersystems.com/p-3979-pentek-355753-43-chlorplus-20bb-chloramine-reduction-1-mic-filter.aspx

[africangrey]

omg, just found out Amazon is selling a chlorplus 20BB for $108, plus $55 for the housing,
tkeracer619 I have to say you got a mega setup just for water treatment alone. whirlpool water softener might be a more feasible option.

[tkeracer619]

To put that into perspective. A pentek chlorplus10 is at minimum $20+ shipping and has 1lb of carbon in it. A $100 chlorplus20BB has ~20lbs of carbon. So if you're toying around with a standard cart for chloramines you are paying 4x as much. I bet I get several thousand more gallons at this rate, could burn 2 $100 bills, and still come out ahead including the housing.

Someone is making money at your expense.

[SpectraPure]

KingTriton,

Do we have the float automated, or do we use the system by making large batches of water at once? Also it sounds like you need a whole-house carbon filter, or even better would be a tank. We need to make sure that the auto-flush is performing correctly. Can we talk on the phone to figure out what is going on?

Jeremy

[KingTriton1]

Ive went though 2 RO Membranes and had to replace 2 carbon filters all in the matter of 3 months. This is with each membrane and filter only producing 200 gallons before receiving <95% reject. If anything $100 for a solution sounds amazing :)

[KingTriton1]

Hey Jeremy, I don't use a float automation. I tend to make large batches at once (75 gallons+). Ill send you a PM with my number. Thanks

[tkeracer619]

FWIW, large batches are harder on carbon blocks than small batches.

This is also why you buy spectrapure or buckeye. They troll the forums looking for issues their customers have unlike most. +1

[KingTriton1]

This is also why you buy spectrapure or buckeye. They troll the forums looking for issues their customers have unlike most. +1


Couldn't agree more on this. Btw you ever hit the flatirons in Boulder? Me and my wife go up there about twice a year. Its amazing. Id love to stop by and check out your setup next time I go out there.

[tkeracer619]

Sure, hit me up. I'm about 30 minutes from there. If you have the time... there is also a LFS (AAInc) you should see since you are into SPS. You would want to set aside 3 hours for that though. Hour of driving and 2 hours of drooling.

[KingTriton1]

Sure, hit me up. I'm about 30 minutes from there. If you have the time... there is also a LFS (AAInc) you should see since you are into SPS. You would want to set aside 3 hours for that though. Hour of driving and 2 hours of drooling.

Did I mention that I go with my wife? Your place is pushing it alone :lmao:
I guess 3 hours of my coral browsing will be comparable to 10 hours at Macys and Nordstrom rack.

[tkeracer619]

We can drop her off in Downtown Denver at the 16th street mall with your credit card on the way. She probably won't mind ;)

[KingTriton1]

We can drop her off in Downtown Denver at the 16th street mall with your credit card on the way. She probably won't mind ;)

There we go. Maybe a debt card instead though. :thumbsup:

[ChrisKirkland]

Thanks. I have produced about 2000 gallons of water using the large size 4 chlorplus20BB. Have re-installed my booster pump. Have re-installed my dual membranes. Zero breakthrough. I'm not going back! Worth every penny for the upgrade.

Chloramines will kill your tank. It is ammonia bound to chlorine. Incomplete removal at the carbon stage will damage the membrane and rapidly exhaust your DI.

I'm still using the same DI carts after 2000 gallons.

I completely recommend anyone dealing with chloramines to consider using one of these massive carbon blocks or even adding a whole house filtration system. Chloramines are nasty for your tank and you.

Well... This may explain why I am using the heck out of my DI resin. My water company (AMWater) switches annually I believe between chloramines and Chlorine.

[tkeracer619]

Test your waste water with a total chlorine test kit, you can also use the jungle buddies Ammonia test strip kit from Walmart. If it registers you found your answer :).

I was swapping DI carts like double bubble gum before figuring it all out.

[tkeracer619]

This is the Chlorplus spec sheet. Look at the amount of water filtered and the flow rates between the sizes. Chlorine and Chloramines are two separate beasts. Contact time and the amount of activated carbon is everything and considering the 20BB is rated @4gpm we aren't even close to breaking through at the flow rates we use. The reason I went to the biggest one was because in the whole scheme of things, this is a drop in the bucket. Keep in mind the flow rate on a 4:1 ratio system is 5x your production rate. On a 4:1 the standard cart is only rated for about 200gals of product water before you see breakthrough...

https://farm1.staticflickr.com/561/19008673829_94fb4656a4_b.jpg

[fishresponse]

Is it common for a city's water test results to list their chlorine/chloramine on one separate line? Ex. Chlorine (chloramine). I know their not the same but wanted to see what others were seeing their city's listing as.

[tkeracer619]

Yes, google "your city water quality report" It is usually one of the first things on the list.

[KingTriton1]

What you need is a total chlorine test kit and a total ammonia test kit. I find the cheepo ammonia test strips from walmart register, particularly after ro and before di. But the also register the tap.


Ammonia Test

Tap Water is 0.8

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x363/Gtturner1988/IMG_0195_zpsewivsphx.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/Gtturner1988/media/IMG_0195_zpsewivsphx.jpg.html)

After RO, but before DI is about 0.3ish...

http://i1178.photobucket.com/albums/x363/Gtturner1988/29a50ddb-99d8-4e5e-a738-19a1bbd51fad_zpsc9oobvan.jpg (http://s1178.photobucket.com/user/Gtturner1988/media/29a50ddb-99d8-4e5e-a738-19a1bbd51fad_zpsc9oobvan.jpg.html)

[KingTriton1]

Is that normal?

[fishresponse]

Yes, google "your city water quality report" It is usually one of the first things on the list.

I get that but wasn't sure if it was common for a city to report them on the same line - as if they were deemed the same when we all know they are not.

[zachfishman]

We had to upgrade the dechlorination for our RO filters at work (2x TOMAR 1000gpd); the stock 20"x2.5" cartridges weren't cutting it. The Pentek Chlorplus BB 20"x4" was the only filter I tested that sufficiently removed our chloramine and held up decently over time (our monthly RO consumption is ~10,000 gallons, so I can get nearly a month out of the filters). If it weren't for the Chlorplus, we'd need to use those massive granulated carbon towers. The 20" BB cartridges might cost a little more than bulk granulated carbon, but the ease of swapping out cartridges is worth it.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/zachfishman/Untitled%20copy.jpg (http://s989.photobucket.com/user/zachfishman/media/Untitled%20copy.jpg.html)

[fishresponse]

This is good data.

[zachfishman]

Can you simply use a dechlor like freshwater setups usually add to tap water to remove/detoxify any chloramines left in RODI water? http://loanwebfast.com/green/images/51.gifhttp://insuranceautocars.com/insurance/images/37.gif

You could. But any chlorine/chloramine making it to your RO membrane will damage it, shortening its useful life. Also, chlorine going through the membrane will exhaust DI resin faster.

[zachfishman]

This is good data.

I'm a little suspicious of my Hydronix results. The block may have been cracked... or it's just that bad at chloramine removal.

[tkeracer619]

Is that normal?

It is typical of chloramines. If a total chlorine test kit shows zero then it would be normal. If it registers then you are getting breakthrough.

Carbon doesn't remove the ammonia component of chloramines. Cation DI Resin removes the ammonia.

If I had to place my bets they would be you are getting breakthrough. If you aren't running any specialized chloramine carbon block and aren't changing the standard filters every time you make water it's almost a guarantee you are breaking through.

[tkeracer619]

I'm a little suspicious of my Hydronix results. The block may have been cracked... or it's just that bad at chloramine removal.

It's only rated for chlorine at 17,000gal @ 1gpm compared to the chlorplus20bb rating of 500,000gal @ 4gpm.

It's like bringing a spitball to a nuke fight.


so I can get nearly a month out of the filters

Those units only come with a single carbon block iirc, did you add a chamber for dual carbon blocks? I would think you would get a much longer life out of two filters since it looks like the single block is still removing ~3/4 of the chloramines at your last data point.

[zachfishman]

Those units only come with a single carbon block iirc, did you add a chamber for dual carbon blocks? I would think you would get a much longer life out of two filters since it looks like the single block is still removing ~3/4 of the chloramines at your last data point.

Yes we added a 20"x4" after the sediment filter and before the second carbon block (20"x2.5"). The 20" BB Chlorplus plus the follow up carbon covers us. A single 20"x2.5" Chlorplus wasn't enough.

[tkeracer619]

Very cool. That is a lot of water!!

[tkeracer619]

A little shameless bump.

I've lost track of how much water I have produced. Just turned the RO system on tonight and have lost my first DI cart since installing this chlorplus 20bb. My post around late June stated I had produced just over 2000gals. I installed this March 15th. If I had to guess I have made between to 4500 to 6000 gallons. Before installing it IIRC I was blowing DI carts almost every 400 gallons. This setup has paid for itself on the first filter change and guess what. Still no signs of chloramine breakthrough even when running on a booster pump a dual membranes... I am impressed.

[outy]

I bet a bunch of people out there are dealing with this and don't realize it.

My ppm incoming is 32, my media and membranes last forever.



But for 25 years, every water change brings on GHA no matter what I do.


So now I'm yearly on water changes.

[hcl2195]

tkeracer619, you posted the sequence of your filters, would you post a picture of your filtration setup? I am thinking of adding a Big Blue into my system for added piece of mind. Thanks in advance.

[Mrs. Music]

Please post pictures of this filter set up!

[Mrs. Music]

I just wanted to share an issue I recently fixed. I upgraded my ro unit from 50 gpd to 75 gpd with the help of a BRS customer service person a couple of years ago. And since then I had been burning up membranes and di resin every few months. I was fortunate enough to talk with a very experienced store manager at Salty Critter in Vermillion Ohio. He sold me spectrapure products and he walked me thru some steps to evaluate if my waste water to ro water ratio was appropriate. It was not. I dicovered that the restrictor I thought I removed was not a restrictor at all but fitting. I found the restrictor in the elbow from the membrane housing. So after switching to spectrapure products, and correctly matching the restrictor to the membrane to I am at zero TDS.
You guys do not mention flushing your system. Is that something you do?

[jason2459]

I flush manually before every use.

[Buckeye Hydro]

Based on performance data we like the Chloraguard Chloramine Blocks.

Russ

[Buckeye Hydro]

We had to upgrade the dechlorination for our RO filters at work (2x TOMAR 1000gpd); the stock 20"x2.5" cartridges weren't cutting it. The Pentek Chlorplus BB 20"x4" was the only filter I tested that sufficiently removed our chloramine and held up decently over time (our monthly RO consumption is ~10,000 gallons, so I can get nearly a month out of the filters). If it weren't for the Chlorplus, we'd need to use those massive granulated carbon towers. The 20" BB cartridges might cost a little more than bulk granulated carbon, but the ease of swapping out cartridges is worth it.

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/af11/zachfishman/Untitled%20copy.jpg (http://s989.photobucket.com/user/zachfishman/media/Untitled%20copy.jpg.html)

You're comparing apples to oranges here - which is fine to do, but folks should be aware that there are certain blocks specifically designed to deal with chloramines (like the Chloraguard blocks), and then there are traditional carbon blocks.

Russ

[Fredfish]

Buckeye. You don't mention which in zachfishman's comparison are the apples. Looking at his chart I would guess the Hydronix unit is probably regular carbon.

Based on performance data we like the Chloraguard Chloramine Blocks.

Can you explain what it is abut the Chloraguard blocks that makes them better?

[Buckeye Hydro]

Of the chloramine blocks, the Chloraguards have the greatest chloramine capacity but certainly not the highest price. They are the best value among the chloramine blocks. Guess which one we carry?

Russ

[tkeracer619]

Please post pictures of this filter set up!

Bump, I know it's late but I will post pics soon.

BTW, my 20bb Chlorplus cartridge is still going strong. I lost count of the gallons.

So over a year of hard use and we're still good. If you have chloramines, you need this.

[jason2459]

Bump, I know it's late but I will post pics soon.

BTW, my 20bb Chlorplus cartridge is still going strong. I lost count of the gallons.

So over a year of hard use and we're still good. If you have chloramines, you need this.

Wow, that's pretty impressive.

[tkeracer619]

Wow, that's pretty impressive.

Yeah, I thought for sure I would be getting breakthrough by now, I'm really impressed by the results! What I find really awesome is my DI carts are lasting a very long time. I have only changed them twice in a year.

I just went back and looked at my salt purchases. In the last year I have purchased 22 Boxes and one bucket of salt.

Thats 4,600 gallons of Saltwater. I used my last box last night (which got me thinking about this).

I evaporate about 10 gallons a day between the different systems. We're 425 days since I installed this filter. So that's 4250 gallons of additional DI.

Unless I'm forgetting something i'm averaging 4,425 gallons per set of DI carts and the 2nd set of DI carts is still going! I'm using dual Spectrapure 99% membranes @80psi and maxcap super DI carts.

[amcvay1979]

Since I switched to the BRS chloramine blocks my DI has been lasting crazy long. My membranes were frying in about 5 months too. Now I know why. Chloramines.

[drawman]

Bump, I know it's late but I will post pics soon.

BTW, my 20bb Chlorplus cartridge is still going strong. I lost count of the gallons.

So over a year of hard use and we're still good. If you have chloramines, you need this.
Were you ever able to get pictures of the setup? I'm interested in doing something similar. It looks like the housing uses 3/4" tubing - how did you go from 1/4" to 3/4" and back again?

[zachfishman]

Were you ever able to get pictures of the setup? I'm interested in doing something similar. It looks like the housing uses 3/4" tubing - how did you go from 1/4" to 3/4" and back again?

They sell adapters. You can either get push fit adapters, or replace the connections on the housing itself: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/male-adapter/

[Reel North]

I have the vertex with the booster pump. I added 2 more stages to it - carbon and another DI.

I use the BRS chloramine blocks.

What's this test kit for chloramines?

I did notice a big difference in my tank after adding the carbon blocks.

[drawman]

They sell adapters. You can either get push fit adapters, or replace the connections on the housing itself: http://www.buckeyehydro.com/male-adapter/
Thanks! So I really shouldn't need anything else if I want to plumb this between my sediment filter and carbon filter? Ie booster pump, etc.

Do you still recommend the Pentek Chlorplus in this setup? I see BRS and other companies sell the Pentek CRFC20-BB Carbon Block and Buckeye Hydro sells the Chloraguard Chloramine carbon block. At this stage I would want to get the best for chloramines and not mess around.

[drawman]

I have the vertex with the booster pump. I added 2 more stages to it - carbon and another DI.

I use the BRS chloramine blocks.

What's this test kit for chloramines?

I did notice a big difference in my tank after adding the carbon blocks.
People are testing both Total chlorine and free chlorine. The difference between the two is your amount of chloramines. If the two are the same then you have no detectable chloramines. Several companies make them with Hach being likely the best and most expensive for our use.

[drawman]

Just plumbed in a 20BB Housing and Chloraguard Carbon block from Buckeye Hydro between my sediment and carbon blocks on my RO unit. Making some water now for the first time I don't think I'll have to worry about Chloramines for a while now!

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm283/timjernberg/carbon1.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/timjernberg/media/carbon1.jpg.html)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm283/timjernberg/carbon2.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/timjernberg/media/carbon2.jpg.html)

[tkeracer619]

Just plumbed in a 20BB Housing and Chloraguard Carbon block from Buckeye Hydro between my sediment and carbon blocks on my RO unit. Making some water now for the first time I don't think I'll have to worry about Chloramines for a while now!

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm283/timjernberg/carbon1.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/timjernberg/media/carbon1.jpg.html)

http://i299.photobucket.com/albums/mm283/timjernberg/carbon2.jpg (http://s299.photobucket.com/user/timjernberg/media/carbon2.jpg.html)

Awesome!!

BTW... My filter is still going :). No Idea how much water I have made, I lost count.

[Buckeye Hydro]

If you get to the point of wanting to hang that Max Flow housing on the wall, we have a bracket for that...

[BFG]

Wow , just stumbled into this thread ! I was going to build a rodi system and had initially wanted to do something similar too ! I am just so glad that what I had initially planned , you guys were already doing it ! Thanks for sharing your setup !

[tkeracer619]

You're welcome. It is money well spent!!

[tkeracer619]

It's 2017 and the chlorplus 20bb is still going strong!

[jason2459]

That's just awesome

[tkeracer619]

That's just awesome

I know right! I'm thinking about swapping it and the rest out for fresh blocks. It's saved me a ton of cash. My ro di budget for 2016 consisted of two di canisters. Kinda feel guilty for not supporting the rodi sponsors as much as I used to :lol:

Plus, I think it's easily time to disinfect the system.

[jason2459]

Thought of getting another 20BB and putting a regular carbon block in that one? Its been what almost 2 years?

[tkeracer619]

Thought of getting another 20BB and putting a regular carbon block in that one? Its been what almost 2 years?

The thought crossed my mind but I am not sure if it would ever be cost effective. I don't think the investment could ever really be recouped. A pentek .5 micron carbon block is $15 for a normal one and $75 for a 20bb. Including the $$85 for the housing and bracket the initial cost would be $160 and I would still need to disinfect the system at some point. I'd need to replace 11 carbon blocks in the time I replace the 20bb chlorplus, I used 3.

So I think keeping the normal filters in there is best. In the end a 10BB Chlorplus may have been better. It's half the cost and if it lasts half as long you won't feel bad about trashing it each year to disinfect. Personally, I'm not worried about the $50 considering how long the DI lasts and the fact that I'm not worried about chloramines anymore. If I make any change it would be to do my whole house instead of just the RODI system.

[125mph]

So here's a question : if you stillji have chloramines after the RO stage, wouldn't the DI stage remove all the chloramines? Sure DI resin would get depleted rapidly, but no chloramine are entering the tank, right?


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[tkeracer619]

So here's a question : if you stillji have chloramines after the RO stage, wouldn't the DI stage remove all the chloramines? Sure DI resin would get depleted rapidly, but no chloramine are entering the tank, right?


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

It will ruin the membrane and yes the di will get it but only for a short time. It's like using $5 bills to wipe your...

They rate the membranes for so many hours of chlorine but since chloramine doesn't break down the clock never stops ticking. You could run it once and 6 months later the membrane would be toast.

[PyroSteve]

Great info! So if I'm looking for the smallest footprint RO/DI to get rid of chloramines, do you think a 3 stage with a Size 3 Canister and 10BB is the best solution?

[125mph]

Finally got my chloramine monster.. a little messy but here it is: https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20170116/2ce43c92e2942c394244f4e0e5e5b3ec.jpg


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[tkeracer619]

Excellent! :dance:

[tkeracer619]

Great info! So if I'm looking for the smallest footprint RO/DI to get rid of chloramines, do you think a 3 stage with a Size 3 Canister and 10BB is the best solution?

Probably a good way to go.

If you will have a .5 micron carbon block after it I'd consider using a Pentek CRFC-BB in a 10" Big Blue housing. It's only 20 microns so you'd want another carbon after it but it will out perform the Chlorplus 10BB for chloramines. It's the 10" filter version of what is in the chloramine monster.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/256/31976956590_2027bd2b47_o.jpg

[PyroSteve]

Great thanks. I can tell they dose our water after every storm, I can smell and taste this stuff!

[PyroSteve]

Probably a good way to go.

If you will have a .5 micron carbon block after it I'd consider using a Pentek CRFC-BB in a 10" Big Blue housing. It's only 20 microns so you'd want another carbon after it but it will out perform the Chlorplus 10BB for chloramines. It's the 10" filter version of what is in the chloramine monster.


I decided to go with a 75gpd 4 stage and 10 BB housing.

The plan was to set it up - 5 micron sediment filter, 10 lb. 20 micron CRFC-BB, 5 micron carbon block, RO, DI but I can't find the Pentek in stock anywhere.

If not I'll set it up - 5 micron sediment filter, 5 micron carbon block, 10 lb. 1 micron Chloraguard, RO, DI

Look correct? I don't have nearly the water requirements as you so I'm thinking I won't have to worry about chloramines for a long time.

[125mph]

I decided to go with a 75gpd 4 stage and 10 BB housing.

The plan was to set it up - 5 micron sediment filter, 10 lb. 20 micron CRFC-BB, 5 micron carbon block, RO, DI but I can't find the Pentek in stock anywhere.

If not I'll set it up - 5 micron sediment filter, 5 micron carbon block, 10 lb. 1 micron Chloraguard, RO, DI

Look correct? I don't have nearly the water requirements as you so I'm thinking I won't have to worry about chloramines for a long time.

CRFC10-BB is very hard to locate. I wouldn't count on finding those.

Also, I would run a single canister then your 10bb, then the 4 stage.. Just to keep it clean! SEems like your routing around the 4 stage?

[tkeracer619]

The part number for the 10" BB is CRFC-BB. Amazon has them in stock for $66

[Buckeye Hydro]

The part number for the 10" BB is CRFC-BB. Amazon has them in stock for $66

Another option for you in 10" x 4.5" chloramine carbon blocks:
http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

[125mph]

The part number for the 10" BB is CRFC-BB. Amazon has them in stock for $66

Not bad, you found it easily :)

[PyroSteve]

CRFC10-BB is very hard to locate. I wouldn't count on finding those.

Also, I would run a single canister then your 10bb, then the 4 stage.. Just to keep it clean! SEems like your routing around the 4 stage?

I was going to plumb the 10 bb between stages 2 & 3 on the 4 stage if possible.

1.Sediment
2. Carbon Block
> BB 10 Lb. Block
3. RO membrane
4. DI

I was going to go with a 3 stage without the 2. Carbon Block and go sediment, BB, RO, DI because of space and didn't think the extra CB would be necessary but looks like a can squeeze the 4 stage under the wet bar.

The part number for the 10" BB is CRFC-BB. Amazon has them in stock for $66

wow I looked on Amazon, not sure how I missed that!

Another option for you in 10" x 4.5" chloramine carbon blocks

Thanks Buckeye

[tigersmith]

Which test kit are you guys using to test total chlorine? I was using the Hach CN70 and always get undetectable result for both waste and product. Since my acros started to get burnt tips and RTN at random spots again, I bought a Hanna ultra low total chlorine checker. It showed 7ppb (.007ppm) after the DI and 8ppb (.008ppm) at the waste water. Test done after replacing granular catalytic carbon in two 4X20 canisters and two pentek chlorplus in 2X20 canisters. Are these test numbers low enough to be of any concern or does it have to be 0ppb.

[tkeracer619]

I was going to plumb the 10 bb between stages 2 & 3 on the 4 stage if possible.

The big carbon block, whatever you go with, needs to be the first carbon block. Putting a normal one out in front of it is a waste of money. Like I said before, that's like having the president leading the motorcade on a motorcycle and the secrete service riding in the bulletproof limo. Put that big carbon block out front!!

[Buckeye Hydro]

The big carbon block, whatever you go with, needs to be the first carbon block. Putting a normal one out in front of it is a waste of money. Like I said before, that's like having the president leading the motorcade on a motorcycle and the secrete service riding in the bulletproof limo. Put that big carbon block out front!!

Yes - this is the correct configuration! Highest capacity carbon block should be the first one AFTER the sediment filter(s).

[jason2459]

I'm considering going with the 20 2.5" not the BB and swap out yearly.

[Buckeye Hydro]

The housings that hold 10" x 4.5" filters, and the housings that hold 20" x 4.5" filters are both referred to generically as Big Blue Housings, regardless of color. We call Buckeye Hydro's clear and blue BB's our "Max Flow Housings (http://www.buckeyehydro.com/max-flow-housings/)."

Russ

[jason2459]

The housings that hold 10" x 4.5" filters, and the housings that hold 20" x 4.5" filters are both referred to generically as Big Blue Housings, regardless of color. We call Buckeye Hydro's clear and blue BB's our "Max Flow Housings (http://www.buckeyehydro.com/max-flow-housings/)."

Russ

Yep, sorry I meant the narrow 2.5" one. I edited my post above.

[tkeracer619]

:facepalm: Just realized I posted the wrong graph above. I put the pressure drop not the treated gallons...

[PyroSteve]

The big carbon block, whatever you go with, needs to be the first carbon block. Putting a normal one out in front of it is a waste of money. Like I said before, that's like having the president leading the motorcade on a motorcycle and the secrete service riding in the bulletproof limo. Put that big carbon block out front!!

Understood Thanks :thumbsup:

[jason2459]

:facepalm: Just realized I posted the wrong graph above. I put the pressure drop not the treated gallons...
Which graphic were you trying to post?

[tkeracer619]

I can't find it on the web. It's on the hard drive I just pulled out of this laptop and haven't gotten an external case for yet...

[jason2459]

So, I'm on buckeye hydro's website pricing out what all I need to get some 20"x2.5" housings, brackets, fittings, etc (they have everything needed BRS is lacking in fittings fyi) and I run across the Gapper. I want. I'm very seriously contemplating that 400gpd setup but then I would need to upgrade my DI housing still.

[Buckeye Hydro]

We introduced the Gapper near the end of last year in our Form here: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2610131

[tkeracer619]

Very Cool!

[jason2459]

Very Cool!

Super Cool! I love it!!


My thread on getting ready for it and setup of it.
The Gapper 400GPD Light Commercial RO from Buckeye Hydro
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=24964950#post24964950

[tkeracer619]

Nice!

[tkeracer619]

Bump... we've passed the two year mark for the installation of the Chlorplus 20BB to combat chloramines.

I got a Hanna ULR Total Chlorine Checker today and am pretty surprised. I have no idea how much water I have made up to this point but I am estimating close to 8,000 gallons of RODI.

The breakthrough measured out at 29ppb or .029ppm. Plain awesome!

[scuzy]

I ordered a chloraplus 20bb and a second big blue to allow for double contact before the membranes.

My system now 1micron 20" sediment -> chloramine monster -> chloraplus 20bb -> chloraplus 10bb -> chloraplus 10bb -> 0.6 micron matrix --> booster -> 100gpd membrane in series --> Di this should be goods for a long time.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

[jason2459]

That's really good.

But damn it you're going to make me curious enough to not replace mine at the year mark and keep testing. I've got the 2.5" x 20" Chloraguard Carbon Blocks from buckeye hydro.

[125mph]

So something been bothering me. I have the 6 stage BRS water saver system with the double ro membrane. Also run a chloramine monster before and booster pump gets me 75-85psi.

I have a TDS meter before and after the sediment filter. Before reads 375 (tap water) and after reads 425. Any ideas why?

Second thing is I have a 3 way TDS meter before di1, after di1 and after di2. My first di is running out at a rate of about 200 gallons. Going into Di1 is 8-9 TDS which is about 98%. Should my di really get burned this fast?


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[tkeracer619]

If you swap the tds meter probes does it still read the same? That's pretty strange. I'd suspect a funky probe but there may be something else going on.

[scuzy]

If you are getting more TDs is the membrane waste and good connected correctly. Seems like you flushing the membrane.


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[125mph]

If you are getting more TDs is the membrane waste and good connected correctly. Seems like you flushing the membrane.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro



Well the higher TDS is from the sediment filter. It's not the TDS meter cause I swap out the pins and still same.


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[scuzy]

Well the higher TDS is from the sediment filter. It's not the TDS meter cause I swap out the pins and still same.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk



Is the sediment new?


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[tkeracer619]

Bump. We're almost to the 3 year mark... Breakthrough is .041ppm. I've probably surpassed over 12,000 gallons of RODI produced with this same Chlorplus 20BB cartridge.

https://c1.staticflickr.com/5/4721/39527072974_a3acc85806_c.jpg

[HBtank]

Thanks for the reminder to refresh my blocks and ended up updating my knowledge on the current chloramine filters (SoCal; been dealing with it forever)! Will be better about actually monitoring breakthrough.

[Buckeye Hydro]

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

and if you want to push chloraminated water through faster yet:
http://www.buckeyehydro.com/backwashing-chloramine-removal-tanks/

Russ

[Zalick]

Bump. We're almost to the 3 year mark... Breakthrough is .041ppm. I've probably surpassed over 12,000 gallons of RODI produced with this same Chlorplus 20BB cartridge.



Thanks for doing this test and keeping up with the thread. I'm going to install the 20" BB w/ ChlorPlus 20BB.

Is there any benefit to running regular carbon after? I have the MaxCap 180 2:1. Should I just run the 1 micron ChlorPlus in the first two housing for extra protection?

[tkeracer619]

Thanks for doing this test and keeping up with the thread. I'm going to install the 20" BB w/ ChlorPlus 20BB.

Is there any benefit to running regular carbon after? I have the MaxCap 180 2:1. Should I just run the 1 micron ChlorPlus in the first two housing for extra protection?

You're welcome! I run two chlorplus 10 and a .5 micron carbon block from spectrapure. I'd probably would just use the .5 micron but I have the room and already had them. I doubt they do a whole lot after the chlorplus 20bb. They too are 3 years old.

Thanks for the reminder to refresh my blocks and ended up updating my knowledge on the current chloramine filters (SoCal; been dealing with it forever)! Will be better about actually monitoring breakthrough.

You're welcome!

[tkeracer619]

http://www.buckeyehydro.com/chloraguard-chloramine-carbon-block/

and if you want to push chloraminated water through faster yet:
http://www.buckeyehydro.com/backwashing-chloramine-removal-tanks/

Russ

Hey Russ, thanks for chiming in. I'm actually interested in going to one of the backwashing filters and a softener. Just need to finish some other projects first. I don't like showering or drinking it.

[Zalick]

You're welcome! I run two chlorplus 10 and a .5 micron carbon block from spectrapure. I'd probably would just use the .5 micron but I have the room and already had them. I doubt they do a whole lot after the chlorplus 20bb. They too are 3 years old.

That's awesome! Reading this thread was eye opening. I have a whole box of .5 ChlorPlus....might as well use em. I constantly worry that I'm loading up my tank with chloramine, even though I test before and after.

[Buckeye Hydro]

Hey Russ, thanks for chiming in. I'm actually interested in going to one of the backwashing filters and a softener. Just need to finish some other projects first. I don't like showering or drinking it.

Been spec'ing/selling/installing lots of softeners and GAC/CGAC tanks as of late - many of them as pretreatment to large/commercial RO's. Our latest project will have five 500 gallon storage tanks, a softener, a carbon tank, and a 2500 gpd RO, with a control system that will send water only to the specific tank(s) that happen to be low on water.

Russ

[HBtank]

So, something I was pondering:

In the past I have always relied on bulk color changing resin and simply moving my 6th stage mixed-bed DI to the 5th stage (and putting new mixed-bed DI in the 6th) when the color completely changed in the 5th. This almost always occurred before an in-line meter actually read above 0 TDS after the 5th stage, but knowing these meters are not perfect I assume it is 0-1 ppm. This worked well, gave me confidence I was using most of the DI while maintaining a fail-safe 6th stage.

I see other DI options out there, some of which are intended to be used in sequence (so not swapping like I do above; i.e. MaxCaps and Silica Busters etc.), and also not color changing.

How do people monitor secondary DI stages meant to be in sequence like this for replacement?

[tkeracer619]

I have taps between the DI stages and measure total ammonia after my maxcap cart. I use TDS on the second stage. Once resin gets to capacity it starts to release so once that hits 1 I change it. This can happened even if the first stage is at 0. Typically when I start up the system I notice this since a good cart will still be zero but one near exhaustion may read 2 or 3 but once flow starts it drops back down to zero. At that point I know I don't have a lot more time on that cart.

I do get a lot more out of my 2nd di stage just like they advertise when running a maxcap compared to just swapping 2nd into 1st. It seems expensive at first but at least in my situation it costs less long term. I thought about buying the resins in bulk but the strong cation resin in hydroxide form is expensive enough that even buying a cubic foot you would only save a few bucks per cart and then you would be stuck using old resin by the end of it. Makes a lot more sense to just buy fresh resin in usable quantities and not have to deal with the hassle for just a few bucks more.

[HBtank]

Hmm, got it.

I guess I just have little faith for in-line tds and would worry about that 0-1ppm of previously bound constituents being released from the final stage until it registers on the meter. And even then, not everything reads as TDS.

I like the idea of sequential filters that maximize efficiency, but the simplicity of rotating identical DI stages to combat breakthrough was also nice.

Almost feels like with specific order DI stages I would want a third simple mixed bed DI stage as as a fail safe.

[Buckeye Hydro]

So, something I was pondering:

In the past I have always relied on bulk color changing resin and simply moving my 6th stage mixed-bed DI to the 5th stage (and putting new mixed-bed DI in the 6th) when the color completely changed in the 5th. This almost always occurred before an in-line meter actually read above 0 TDS after the 5th stage, but knowing these meters are not perfect I assume it is 0-1 ppm.

Something's not right here. If you have a TDS meter probe after the 5th it should register above 1 long before you get a color change in the complete height of the cartridge. I'd be less than confident in the TDS meter reading if that's not the case.

Russ

[HBtank]

Something's not right here. If you have a TDS meter probe after the 5th it should register above 1 long before you get a color change in the complete height of the cartridge. I'd be less than confident in the TDS meter reading if that's not the case.

Russ

At 2 ppm TDS going in, which is where my RO output stabilizes at?

I have a HM Digital COM-100, I will break it out and some verification after that 5th stage (will be doing some other testing anyway for chlorine etc..). Probably a good time to add some ports so I can do so more routinely etc..

[Buckeye Hydro]

Doesn't matter if its 2 ppm or 20 ppm going in - you'll get TDS rising in the effluent through long before the entire cartridge changes color.

[HBtank]

Doesn't matter if its 2 ppm or 20 ppm going in - you'll get TDS rising in the effluent through long before the entire cartridge changes color.

Thanks! My system has been like this since day one, but I have never used my hand held to check/verify middle stages. I will do so since I am right at the point I typically swap.

But pointing out the potential issue with my in-line meter (which I suspect I will confirm) only reinforces my concern with using any meter as a way to perform maintenance on a final stage of DI. I work on full scale GW remediation systems, and it has been beaten into me to always measure breakthrough in the second to last stage and have the final stage always be "new" to ensure complete removal on the discharge (and rotating filters to keep efficiency)... so it is hard for me to break that habit.

If I used your "Ammonia and Silica Trap DI Resin Cartridges" in sequence, how do recommend monitoring the final stage for breakthrough that doesn't rely on me having perfect equipment (and still accepting 0-1 ppm will pass) and watching it like a hawk?

[Buckeye Hydro]

Regardless of the type of di carts used, inline TDS meters are typically up to the task - much more so than the color indicator.

Also - you'd want a mixed bed after a cation and anion cart.

Russ

[HBtank]

Regardless of the type of di carts used, inline TDS meters are typically up to the task - much more so than the color indicator.

Also - you'd want a mixed bed after a cation and anion cart.

Russ

Yeah, I am thinking I would have to go with a third mixed-bed cart (in any extended life or special setup) in order to satisfy my need for a fail safe while also following the guidelines for replacement.

Although I had assumed the "ammonia and silica trap cartridges" were not the same as "anion/cation cartridges" when paired together (in terms of needing a mixed bed after)? I thought a mixed bed was only needed if it was a two stage DI system with one of those "trap" carts?

[HBtank]

So I tested my system, and got these results:


TAP: 198 ppm (COM100)
DI IN: 3.8 ppm (COM100); 2.0-3.0 ppm (in-line)
DI OUT: 0.9 ppm (COM100); 0.0 ppm (in-line)
2nd DI Out: 0.1-0.2 ppm (COM100)

And you can see what my DI looks like, one is fully spent, the second 1/4 of the bottom.

https://i.imgur.com/C9O1J18.jpg

Do in-line meters typically show values below, but close to 0? Basically the numbers show what I have seen, I actually let it go longer than usual. The DI is changed in color but not >1.0 on the output. Maybe all my meters are wrong, but it certainly makes me wary of relying on them.

[tkeracer619]

Almost feels like with specific order DI stages I would want a third simple mixed bed DI stage as as a fail safe.

I actually use a eheim 1260 pump in my RODI storage container to feed a closed loop through a non color indicating Mixed Bed cart. It lasts for a really long time, maybe 6 months. The eheim also pressurizes a RODI faucet on my shop sink :)

[HBtank]

I actually use a eheim 1260 pump in my RODI storage container to feed a closed loop through a non color indicating Mixed Bed cart. It lasts for a really long time, maybe 6 months. The eheim also pressurizes a RODI faucet on my shop sink :)

That's awesome. Again I appreciate this thread!

Part of my re-boot I am glad I revisited, I think I had my carbon/chlorine filtration down (verified tonight with strips) but instead holes in my DI setup/maintenance that really are not hard or expensive to fix and add redundancy for (and actually save in the long run).

[tkeracer619]

You're welcome :)

I really like being able to turn on the TDS meter on the storage tank and seeing that 0.

[Buckeye Hydro]

So I tested my system, and got these results:


TAP: 198 ppm (COM100)
DI IN: 3.8 ppm (COM100); 2.0-3.0 ppm (in-line)
DI OUT: 0.9 ppm (COM100); 0.0 ppm (in-line)
2nd DI Out: 0.1-0.2 ppm (COM100)

And you can see what my DI looks like, one is fully spent, the second 1/4 of the bottom.

Interesting, and unusual.



Do in-line meters typically show values below, but close to 0? Basically the numbers show what I have seen, I actually let it go longer than usual. The DI is changed in color but not >1.0 on the output. Maybe all my meters are wrong, but it certainly makes me wary of relying on them.Assuming your COM100 is correct, then I think your test shows that the inline meter is pretty much on the money as well.

Russ

[Buckeye Hydro]

I actually use a eheim 1260 pump in my RODI storage container to feed a closed loop through a non color indicating Mixed Bed cart. It lasts for a really long time, maybe 6 months. The eheim also pressurizes a RODI faucet on my shop sink :)

Reminds me of the UV loop we put on commercial storage tanks holding RO water.

[Fredfish]

I'm glad this thread popped back up. I'm about to set up a tank and water filtration.

The water here is very hard, between 350 and 950 ppm depending on the well the city is drawing from. That will give me RO water at between 7 and 20 ppm out of the RO with a 98% membrane.

At the bottom end, I don't think a DI stage will deplete very quickly, but I know from past experience that at the high end I won't get much more than 30 gallons out of a mixed bead cartridge.

I'm in an apartment, so a softener to precondition is not really an option. It sounds like what I need is a first stage 'rough' DI like the Spectrapure Mega MaxCap DI Cartridge. Are these newer resins really that much better? Is would appear you are getting 3.5 times the filtering at 2.5 times the price. That is IF they perform as advertised.

The other thing I can do is go to a 99? high rejection rate membrane I guess.

[Buckeye Hydro]

Standard Filmtec 75's have been spec'ed at 99% rejection for the last few years.

[Buckeye Hydro]

You'll want to add pressure to deal with high tds as well. At least 1 psi per 100 ppm over 250 ppm.

If your water is really that bad, are you not also in the market for a whole house system?

[Fredfish]

Standard Filmtec 75's have been spec'ed at 99% rejection for the last few years.
Interesting. I picked up a used BRS unit along with the tank. Not sure if it is a 75 or 95gpd membrane or what manufacturer it is. The membrane is supposed to be less than a year old. I`ll need to make a batch of water to see what shape it`s in.

As for whole house, that`s hard to do in an apartment. :)

[tkeracer619]

Standard Filmtec 75's have been spec'ed at 99% rejection for the last few years.

I thought they ranged from 96-99%. The ones I bought before my current 99ers I purchased from another sponsor and one was 96%, the other was 98%.

It was likely 3.5 - 4 years ago they were purchased.

[tkeracer619]

The Chlorplus 20BB filter worked so well for my tank that I decided to get a bigger one for the wifey and I...

2.5 cubic ft of catalytic carbon and 48,000 grain water softener. Auto backwashes and measures water flow through unit/total gallons between recharge. This thing is clutch.
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/890/41594083924_e6432904b6_c.jpg

Straight from every tap in the house :D
https://c1.staticflickr.com/1/960/41594084224_db71b630cd_c.jpg

[fishresponse]

Tkeracer - where did you get that setup?

[tkeracer619]

Tkeracer - where did you get that setup?

Sorry, some reason it didn't tell me someone responded. I got it from discountwatersofteners.com. It's a genesis high flow system. 2.5cuft catalytic carbon. Now having it a few months I couldn't go back, i'd defend that thing with my life haha.

[tkeracer619]

Just a heads up, if you asked a question on amazon today about this filter... Don't purchase these filters from amazon. Fresh water systems has the chlorplus20bb for $100 vs amazons $150.