Stand build - How to get an even paint coat?

[ThRoewer]

I've build my tank stand out of marine plywood. And the idea is to give it a black lacquer finish and add a final coat with a urethane floor sealer.

As surface treatment I started with sculpt wood to fill all screw holes and imperfections in the wood.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=317650&stc=1&d=1431559658

Next I added several coats of white primer (Zinsser 123). First layers rolled on and a last applied with spray cans:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=317651&stc=1&d=1431559700

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=317652&stc=1&d=1431559700

This was almost a perfect finish, just the wrong color.

Next I tried flat black with spray cans. The idea was to add the gloss with a clear coat at the end. The cans gave a good enough cover but didn't

Spraying on the flat black worked OK, but it was so sensitive to touch that you couldn't handle it without messing up the uniformity of the finish. Also the spray can finish wasn't too uniform to begin with.

So I decided to try satin, applied with a spray gun.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=317654&stc=1&d=1431560094

Whatever I tried I always get an uneven paint coat. Either the paint was too thin and didn't cover enough or too thick and left stripes. And whenever I got an acceptable coat a fly decided to land on it and ruin it :headwalls:

After about 10 coats that all didn't come out good enough I decided to give rolling a try and it actually worked perfectly on all areas that are narrower than the roller. But on the large surfaces I got these god-awful stripes.

This is the current state after sanding the last layer even:

http://reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=317653&stc=1&d=1431560484

I'm at my wits end and need some input how to get this done right quickly.

[nivram]

Can't see your pictures. I'm no professional painter, But my quests is that you will need to sand between coats.

[ThRoewer]

I've sanded like crazy after every coat. The surfaces are as smooth as you can get them manually and with power tools.

[SnoopyDaPimp]

Do you have a HVLP gun? For my larger wood working projects that is how I apply my finish.

Prep is the most tedious part of finishing a project. Any impurity in your surface will show in your finished product.

1. Break the current product (paint, primer, etc...) back down to wood as much as you. can. Start with 120 grit; or 80 if need be, and work the finish until smooth with 600 grit.

2. Wipe down the wood with water to raise the grain. This will allow you to see any grains that may pop up in the future. If they raise up knock them down with some 600 grit sand paper.

3. If you are using a HVLP or suction type gun make sure you mix your paint correctly. Those $1 cups at the hardware and paint stores are a life saver for that task. Only mix enough paint for the project with a little extra.

4. Spray your base coat light roughly 8-10" from the work surface. If there are any imperfections after your flash time LIGHTLY knock them down 1000 grit sand paper. Repeat this process until your coverage is nice with no runs or blisters.

5. Apply your finish. Again, reduce your finish according to the instructions of the product you get. Just like your color, start with a light coat at first. After that I start spraying a little heavy. After every coat I let it flash and hit it with 600 grit sand paper for a smooth finish. 3-4 coats should be enough if your are using lacquer.

6. After the last coat of finish let it cure overnight. Finally, get some 0000 steel wool and some Johnson's Paste Wax. Load the 0000 with wax and polish the finish. Wipe off with microfiber and repeat if necessary as this will give you the glass finish.

7. Once it is as smooth as you want, go over the project again with the wax and a microfiber cloth. Let it set up and get hazy and then buff off with a foam pad or a clean microfiber cloth.

[EvenFurther]

I used to do auto paint many years ago, and was very good. Using all the right equipment, and knowing the paint system resulted in a top notch finish every time.

With home DIY projects, using most average box store oil base/water base products, I've found it ranges from super easy, to difficult, to impossible to spray a perfect finish. Some products just don't like to be sprayed, or are so thick a pressure feed gun is required, and if it dries/flashes too fast the finish is poor. Or, some products have to be reduced/thinned out to spray, if reducing is even ok for the product. And, some difficult products take perfect air/fan settings, pressure settings, on a large tip size to spray right.

Be sure that your selecting products than can mesh together. For example using all solvent/oil base, or water base products. Some water based primers work fine with oil base paint, but I don't know if the opposite is ok.

I'm no expert on spraying/rolling average box store DIY products, but I mess around here/there. My advice would be to take a scrap piece of ply, and use it as a test panel / practice panel. Even run thru and layer all products to observe the final product. Its not going to be quick, unless someone happens to select easy to spray products, and using all the right equipment. This way your developing a technique that works good, then applying it the build.

Achieving a perfect finish can be hard. Black is the most difficult because it shows any and all imperfections. You can take a piece of tape, and try to softly pluck a fly out of the paint with the sticky side bent in a circle. Sometimes it works, or sometimes there is a mark, but not as bad as a fly that dries into the paint.

Using a spray gun can result in a nice finish. Its best to select products that are known for being spray gun friendly, non-toxic/smelly once cured, even if its costs much more.

[ThRoewer]

I've used all oil based colors.
Which color would be best for spraying?

[EvenFurther]

A high gloss shows imperfections, a flat finish can show smudges and appear blotchy if not done right.

Black being the darkest color shows imperfections, black gloss is going to really show any imperfections.

Whites seem to hide the most. A semi gloss or satin white should be easy.

I would focus on adjusting your gun settings, pressure and spray technique. The color shouldn't matter for the actual spraying. Its just some colors, and gloss types highlight imperfections/flaws. Ideally its best to use a product that can be reduced/thinned to the right viscosity for spraying with a certain tip size. Or, using a product that is specific to spray gun application. All that, and dry/cure to a durable finish.

[ThRoewer]

The problem is to get the right viscosity of the paint. The pure paint out of the can is way too thick for spraying - I tried and that layer had the worst outcome.
Also what thinner is best, acetone or a plain paint thinner? I found oil based thinners to delay the drying and to change the finish to be more glossy.

[sleepydoc]

Don't know if this will help or not, but they make some stuff called floetrol (http://www.homedepot.com/p/Flood-Floetrol-1-qt-Clear-Latex-Paint-Additive-FLD6-04/100198078) that you can add to latex paint. IIRC, it decreases the viscosity and slows the drying time slightly so there are fewer brush marks. It may help your problem.

[EvenFurther]

Floetrol is for water base latex. He'll need a solvent base product for a reducer/thinner.

[EvenFurther]

Regular paint thinner will work to lower the viscosity. Although I don't know what the very best solvent base specific product works the best, for this rustoleum. Stronger solvent will evaporate quicker, which might help overall drying process, for a hard surface finish.

For thicker paint like this I use a 2.5 mm tip.

[woodnaquanut]

I'm going to suggest a completely different approach.

I like a product by Target Coatings called EM6000. I've used it as a clear coat but it is available in black.
http://targetcoatings.com/products/pigmented-top-coats-interior/em6600raven-black-lacquer/

This is a water based pigmented lacquer. Dries fast (helps with insect issues), easy to apply multiple coats and does not need to be sanded between coats. Each coat melts into the previous coat, unlike polyurethane. It self levels very well.

I usually spray two coats, do a light sanding just to get rid of dust nibs, wipe down with a damp rag and then spray a final coat. I spray with a HVLP conversion gun.

The down sides of this product are it's not available locally, is a bit expensive and you should wear a respirator. Well that's not really fair, you should always wear a respirator when spraying ANY paint.

[ThRoewer]

I'm going to suggest a completely different approach.

I like a product by Target Coatings called EM6000. I've used it as a clear coat but it is available in black.
http://targetcoatings.com/products/pigmented-top-coats-interior/em6600raven-black-lacquer/

This is a water based pigmented lacquer. Dries fast (helps with insect issues), easy to apply multiple coats and does not need to be sanded between coats. Each coat melts into the previous coat, unlike polyurethane. It self levels very well.

I usually spray two coats, do a light sanding just to get rid of dust nibs, wipe down with a damp rag and then spray a final coat. I spray with a HVLP conversion gun.

The down sides of this product are it's not available locally, is a bit expensive and you should wear a respirator. Well that's not really fair, you should always wear a respirator when spraying ANY paint.

That sounds like what I need.
How do you order it (the buy now link doesn't work for some reason)

BTW I always wear a respirator when spraying paint or dry sanding it.

[Dundermifflin]

Satin is a low sheen. You probably want high gloss.

[latino277]

found a vid...... i'm sure you can use the same process to thin the paint and then spray it. good luck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M27R7MqV2yI

[PhreeBYrd]

Also what thinner is best, acetone or a plain paint thinner? I found oil based thinners to delay the drying and to change the finish to be more glossy.

Never use acetone for thinning anything except nail polish. The correct thinner for alkyd or oil-based paints is almost always VM&P Naphtha. The paint can should tell you (if it doesn't, it's probably not meant to be sprayed). Mineral spirits is usually acceptable, but it's a poor second to naphtha.

In order to get the best finish, you don't want the material to dry too quickly. It needs a little time to flow out before it sets up... but you also don't want it to be too slow drying, which allows sags and runs to occur very easily if you're even just a little too generous with the coating. Most alkyd/oil-based coatings are very slow drying.

Like Woodaquanut, I was going to suggest an alternative product to the Rustoleum. I've used the Target Coatings EM6000 products, and they are very good quality (but not cheap and not always easy to find). I've used a lot more of Hydrocote's products, which I find extremely high quality and suitable for the finest finish on anything from fine furniture to musical instruments. You might give them a look. Their products are available through a number of e-tailers, although I've only very rarely found them in brick-and-mortar stores. They do have a black lacquer available, although I haven't used it in many years.

http://hydrocote.com/our-products.htm

[ThRoewer]

The can actually stated to use acetone or mineral spirits to thin it.

I already ordered the Target Coatings EM6600. It's specifically for spray application which should be better than the Rustoleum paint that seems to be primarily intended for brush application.

[woodnaquanut]

The can actually stated to use acetone or mineral spirits to thin it.

I already ordered the Target Coatings EM6600. It's specifically for spray application which should be better than the Rustoleum paint that seems to be primarily intended for brush application.

Sorry about the slow response. :(

Glad you found your way thru their confusing site to order it! Let us know how it works for you. About 10 minutes after you spray it you'll think you made a horrible mistake. It gets all 'puckerie' :) As it dries it all comes together.

[thejuggernaut]

Do you have a HVLP gun? For my larger wood working projects that is how I apply my finish.

Prep is the most tedious part of finishing a project. Any impurity in your surface will show in your finished product.

1. Break the current product (paint, primer, etc...) back down to wood as much as you. can. Start with 120 grit; or 80 if need be, and work the finish until smooth with 600 grit.

2. Wipe down the wood with water to raise the grain. This will allow you to see any grains that may pop up in the future. If they raise up knock them down with some 600 grit sand paper.

3. If you are using a HVLP or suction type gun make sure you mix your paint correctly. Those $1 cups at the hardware and paint stores are a life saver for that task. Only mix enough paint for the project with a little extra.

4. Spray your base coat light roughly 8-10" from the work surface. If there are any imperfections after your flash time LIGHTLY knock them down 1000 grit sand paper. Repeat this process until your coverage is nice with no runs or blisters.

5. Apply your finish. Again, reduce your finish according to the instructions of the product you get. Just like your color, start with a light coat at first. After that I start spraying a little heavy. After every coat I let it flash and hit it with 600 grit sand paper for a smooth finish. 3-4 coats should be enough if your are using lacquer.

6. After the last coat of finish let it cure overnight. Finally, get some 0000 steel wool and some Johnson's Paste Wax. Load the 0000 with wax and polish the finish. Wipe off with microfiber and repeat if necessary as this will give you the glass finish.

7. Once it is as smooth as you want, go over the project again with the wax and a microfiber cloth. Let it set up and get hazy and then buff off with a foam pad or a clean microfiber cloth.

Can you source some of the paints you use? I would be very interested in being able to apply a professional finish. I have all the air tools and spray guns to do it right, just lack know how and haven't wanted to take the time and money to try multiple products. I have used the SW pro-classic waterborne alkyd and it does OK. Definitely not showroom, but I also didn't run down to 600 grit and use steel wool

[ThRoewer]

...
Glad you found your way thru their confusing site to order it!
It certainly is a confusing site.

Let us know how it works for you.
I certainly will.


About 10 minutes after you spray it you'll think you made a horrible mistake. It gets all 'puckerie' :) As it dries it all comes together.

Good to know.

I have the Kobalt spray gun kit (http://www.lowes.com/pd_105568-47120-SGY-AIR160TZ_0__?productId=50246671) - will this work or do I need a better spray gun?

Is this color spray ready or do you have to thin it down?
How long does it take to dry and when can you apply the next layer?

I will sand the current paint layer to be as evenly structured as possible. After all the painting and sanding I did it is already pretty flat and smooth. Only issue with the last coat was that some areas came out shinier than others.

[woodnaquanut]

I've never used the tinted but I assume it works like the clear. Those guns should work fine. I don't thin. I believe they recommend you don't thin because it's a complicated chemistry to get lacquer in water and thinning will mess it up.

Dry time is dependent on heat and humidity. With our bay area weather being all 'June gloom' right now it might take a couple of hours. I spray a light coat in one direction then right away spray another at 90 degrees to that. I have a hard time judging coverage with the clear.

I'm no expert so I always spray on a horizontal surface to prevent runs.

[davocean]

Practice on a scrap board to get the feel for how heavy you can lay on and dry time.
I agree w/ woodnaquanut, cross pattern.
Like most I do not have a spray booth, so I set up a plastic drop cloth overhead to keep dust from coming down, I even spray the ground w garden hose gently to wet down any dust below, and I spray first thing in the morning to avoid wind.
If you mess up it's not difficult to let dry, sand w/ 220 and do it again, sometimes that even makes a more perfect finish.
Tack cloth wipe before spraying to remove any dust.
Good luck.

[ThRoewer]

OK, I got the paint and already applied two layers. The paint is clearly better but the striping issue remains. I think the issue is my spray gun - it simply can't apply enough paint quickly enough in one pass.
I have to be about 4" off the surface to get the paint hit the surface wet, and then the spot is only 2-3" wide. I could probably still get an even coat if I had an robotic arm, but keeping the right distance and staying perfectly on track is nearly impossible.

Also, the compressor runs out of air after a while even though it's rated 4.0 cfm and the air gun 3.9 cfm.

I will try a 3rd coat later and if that doesn't work I'm out of ideas.

[davocean]

Your compressor tank may be too small to hold enough air volume.
sand w/ 220 and try a cross pattern, opposite direction of what you have been spraying to eliminate striping.
And yeah, you pretty much do want to try to replicate a robotic arm!

[thejuggernaut]

OK, I got the paint and already applied two layers. The paint is clearly better but the striping issue remains. I think the issue is my spray gun - it simply can't apply enough paint quickly enough in one pass.
I have to be about 4" off the surface to get the paint hit the surface wet, and then the spot is only 2-3" wide. I could probably still get an even coat if I had an robotic arm, but keeping the right distance and staying perfectly on track is nearly impossible.

Also, the compressor runs out of air after a while even though it's rated 4.0 cfm and the air gun 3.9 cfm.

I will try a 3rd coat later and if that doesn't work I'm out of ideas.

Which gun are you using. 1.3mm is pretty small for thicker paints.

[ThRoewer]

I think I already found the problem - the gun needs to be further off even if paint only hits the surface semi wet.
Since it's satin, as soon as the paint gets too wet the surface will be shiny. I probably would have been better off with glossy.

[PhreeBYrd]

In general, to get a very fine spray finish on wood, spray your initial coats with minimal thinning. This builds the finish film (either paint or a clear finish) as quickly as possible. After 3-4 coats, wet sand with 400 grit and then remove all residue from the sanding. Spray the final 2 or 3 coats thinned to the maximum (usually 50%, but no more). Thinning the final coats allows the surfaces to wet much more quickly and uniformly, and with most finishing materials, minimizes orange peel and flashing. Spray tip size is very important. The thinned coats should use a smaller tip orifice, which will allow better atomization and reduce the possibility of runs or sags. Too small an orifice, even with some thinned materials, will cause flashing. Make sure your tip sizes are as recommended by the manufacturers of your spray equipment and finish material... or try several tips until you find the one that works best for each coat.

In the best case, heavy material sprayed through too small a tip causes the material to dry before it flows out on the surface, resulting in orange peel or blotchiness. In the worst case, the finish will sputter, resulting in a complete mess.

You might need to do a final polishing after all of the finish has cured. Polishing will remove any minor patchiness you find in the finish.

And as a general rule, gloss is much better for a first rate finish than satin. You can always reduce a gloss sheen, but you can never polish up a satin or semi-gloss sheen beyond a certain point.

And a lot of variables come into play that no amount of advice can address. Air/fluid mix ratio, air pressure, tip pressure, orifice size and type, and your spraying technique all interplay with each other. Sometimes it just takes a lot of practice to find what works best for you and for your equipment and materials. Don't give up. Keep practicing and making small adjustments to your settings and technique. You'll get there.

[woodnaquanut]

I agree with everything PhreeBYrd said except the thinning. IIRC, you are NOT supposed to thin the Target Coating product.

To get my technique dialed in I sprayed water on cardboard. That way I could see the pattern, flow amounts and my overlap. It takes practice to get the settings correct. Try adjusting the flow and pressure to get a better spread. Also work on keeping the gun perpendicular to the surface and moving it at a steady pace. It might help to sing 'Mr. Roboto' to yourself while spraying! :)

[38bill]

About two years ago I painted a stand I made for my BC29 using the same paint (Rustoleum Satin Black oil) and I couldn't be happier with the results. I thinned it with acetone per Rustoleums instructions and sprayed it with a home grade HVLP gun. Built up the coats with sanding in between and then after the final coat and super fine sanding I rubbed it out with 0000 steel wool. Dont try to get a super smooth final coat, let the final sanding and rub out do that. I did mine outside in the sun to help it dry faster. It also helps if you can spray the surfaces while they are horizontal so the paint doesn't run. Don't get to worried over bugs in the final finish as they should sand and rub out.

http://i1197.photobucket.com/albums/aa422/38bill/BC29%20stand.jpg (http://s1197.photobucket.com/user/38bill/media/BC29%20stand.jpg.html)

[ThRoewer]

I didn't thin the Target Coating paint since it is already optimized for spray application (the Rustoleum isn't).
What I like most about Target is that it dries very fast to the touch.
I'm getting ready to do another coat and hope this one can be the final one.

I've practiced with water, but since water has a very different viscosity than the paint it doesn't do too much good. So I usually try a few lines on a piece of Styrofoam.

The only other question is if I should add a clear coat or just let it be good with the Target Coting finish. I'm a bit worried about scratch resistance.

[ThRoewer]

OK, last coat came down pretty even. This time I sprayed from a larger distance so the surface never got "wet". That was the mistake before: to close.

Only downside is that the surface turned out slightly rough this way. I'm not sure if I want to sand it smooth and add another layer.

Also, will this coating be enough or should I add a clear protective coat?

[PhreeBYrd]

I didn't thin the Target Coating paint since it is already optimized for spray application (the Rustoleum isn't).
.
(snippage)
.
The only other question is if I should add a clear coat or just let it be good with the Target Coting finish. I'm a bit worried about scratch resistance.

No finishing product is ever or can ever be perfectly optimized. Equipment, weather conditions, project conditions are all infinitely variable. The best the manufacturer can do is to try to find the optimum solution for the largest possible percentage of its customer base.

From Target Coatings EM6000 data sheet:
"3. EMTECH™ Lacquer can be sprayed without reducing with
water or Target SA5 Spray Retarder. However, additions of
SA5 Retarder may be required to slow-down the system if
the lacquer is drying too quickly during high temperature applications.

4. Reduce EMTECH™ Lacquer upwards of 50% with water if lacquer
is to be used as a pre-stain sealer or tie-coat between
stain or dye coats to prevent color bleed. Using EMTECH™
EM1000 Universal Sanding Sealer will also work as a pre-
stain sealer or intermediate coat prior to using EM6000."

Clearly, Target does not prohibit thinning or even advise against thinning their products (if they did, they probably would be the first to do so). The full EM6000 Tech Data Sheet is here:
http://targetcoatings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/TC_TechDataSheet_EM6000_R3.pdf

The fact that they make a proprietary spray reducer should be evidence enough that Target Coatings is aware that the standard product viscosity is not always ideal. And for what it's worth, spray reducers for waterborne finishes are typically simply distilled water with a small amount of surfactant added to promote flowout.

As for durability, the cured product is extremely tough and hard. Spraying a coat or two of clear finish over the top of the tinted coats will indeed add much depth to the finish and will protect the tinted coats underneath. If you decide to go this route, use only the same Target product in the untinted, gloss version. Their post-catalyzing cross-linker additive is probably not necessary, but it's another option for maximizing finish durability.

[PhreeBYrd]

OK, last coat came down pretty even. This time I sprayed from a larger distance so the surface never got "wet". That was the mistake before: to close.

Only downside is that the surface turned out slightly rough this way. I'm not sure if I want to sand it smooth and add another layer.

Also, will this coating be enough or should I add a clear protective coat?

This is what I referred to in a prior post as "flash". You sprayed too too lightly, from too great a distance, or at the wrong fluid viscosity.

This coat must be sanded away and the piece re-sprayed.

When you're spraying correctly, the surface will be wet, but not so thick that the coating sags or runs.

[ThRoewer]

OK, I sanded it and tried another more wet coat and it turned out stripy and uneven again. The paint is clearly too thick and dries way too fast.

I need to get this damn thing done, ideally this weekend, so getting their retarder would likely take too long.
What else could be used to thin the color and delay the drying?

[PhreeBYrd]

Although there may be additional issues, it does sound as though the material is flashing at the edges of your spray application, which can leave an uneven sheen. I assume you're using a fan spray tip. A cone tip might alleviate the issue. I need to go back through the thread to see what kind of spraying gear you're using. From the Target tech docs, this finish, like many other high-quality waterborne finishes, is not well-suited for a traditional spraying (low volume, high pressure) setup. Usually an HVLP spraying setup is far superior and recommended.

You could try turning the gun's air control down as much as you can without getting sputters. If you can switch to a cone tip, even better. Be warned that reducing the gun's air reduces it's ability to atomize, so if you go too far, you'll be in trouble.

You can use pure (distilled) water for reducing. It will most definitely slow the drying and improve flowout. I'd start by reducing 10-15% and see how that works. You can safely reduce to around 50/50, with some cautions.

Now, this is important:
If you feel like you've sprayed a thick enough finish film, you can stop spraying and just start polishing. A good polishing will absolutely remove the streaking you're seeing entirely. You want to do this by hand, not with some buffing machine, and you want to use the correct polishing materials (pumice, rotten stone, and thick felt pads). Automotive polishes may or may not work well and cannot be recommended. You need to let the finish cure for at least a week before you polish.

FWIW, the best finishes simply cannot be achieved without some polishing.

[ThRoewer]

OK, the last thinned coat came on even and has dried/cured now for a week.
So I think I'm ready for polishing. Which polishing products would be recommended and in which order?

[ThRoewer]

I tried to polish it:

1. wet sanded with 800 grit
2. wet sanded with 1000 grit
3. rubbed with 0000 steelwool and wax
4. polished with a polishing pad

The result was a surface that was very smooth to the touch but still looked shitty in strong light. The slightly rough "as sprayed" finish for sure looked better and more even.

I'm also not sure the Target Coatings paint is really suitable for saltwater by itself as even tap water leaves marks that can't be wiped off with a dry towel or even a wet one. So I tried 92% Isopropanol and guess what - it dissolved the paint surface :headwalls:

If I had not put so much effort and sunk so much money into it (let alone the completely messed up balcony) I would just scrap it.

I don't know what to do anymore...

[woodnaquanut]

I'm sorry you are having so many issues with this. I used the same product (in the clear version) for my kitchen cabinets, fireplace, mantel and tank stand. It's been bullet proof for me.

I've never tried to polish it. All my sanding was before the last coat. If you are trying for a very high gloss finish, I'd put on more coats, make sure each coat is thick enough (3 mils recommended) and wait a week or more before polishing.

Did you stir the product before spraying?

Did you let it cure before trying to polish? It reaches full hardness several days (100 hours) after final application.

Check out http://targetcoatings.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/TC_TechDataSheet_EM6000_R3.pdf for more info. The tests were done 14 days after application.

There is a product, CL100 Cross-Linker, that adds resistance to alcohol but since you probably don't use that around your tank, I don't think it's needed.

[ericarenee]

You do know Green (newly treated) Marine plywood will likely not hold paint and should be painted with epoxy or latex base paint if i Remember Correctly.

[ThRoewer]

I stirred it before use and let it dry/cure for a week.
I think this paint isn't meant for polishing - their instruction only ever speak of sanding before the final coat but nothing about it after.
The data sheet says that it will recover from denatured alcohol but the sanded film clearly didn't.

But even the top surface I didn't sand or polish was irreversibly stained by soap water that I let dry on it overnight.

Since saltwater is highly corrosive it will probably be a good idea to add the CL100. I only wish they had all those things listed on the actual product page so I could have ordered it all together. I feel their website isn't very well structured to find things you may need additionally.

[ThRoewer]

You do know Green (newly treated) Marine plywood will likely not hold paint and should be painted with epoxy or latex base paint if i Remember Correctly.

It holds paint just fine. Adhesion is absolutely not the problem. I'm painting this since March and have more than 20 coats of leveler, primer and paint on it.
The issue is the finish and chemical resistance of the final coat.

[KingTriton1]

This is what I do. I first sand the crap out of my stand using 80 to 120,180,220,320 grit sand paper. A lot of sweat is involved here but it is important not to skip the order involved. I then prime with Kilz original complete, then again after a few hours. After about 24 hours I paint it with an oil exterior paint or top side from rust oleum. I use a 2'' trim brush for everything. Never ran into any issues. Good luck!

[PhreeBYrd]

Polishing goes way beyond 1000 grit, and must be done using a lubricant. This means if you're polishing with sandpaper, you need to wet sand with water. You would also need to work your way from 1000 grit to at least 6000 grit (8-10,000 for the best finishes).

There is nothing terribly special about the Target products - they use the same acrylic resins used by other high-quality waterborne wood finishes, and they can most definitely be polished.

As I said in a prior post, the traditional polishing materials are ground pumice and rottenstone (used in that order) applied with a thick, wet felt pad. The abrasives are available at paint stores and home centers. The felt (3/8" to 1/2" thick) you may need to search a bit for. If you can't find felt, other heavy, smooth-faced fabrics can be made to work.

Stop throwing chemicals at it. At this point, nothing should touch the surface except water or polishing oil. If you need to remove wax (which you will), use only mineral spirits. It will not affect the finish.

Salt water is not corrosive to acrylic finishes. That's why we're able to have acrylic aquariums.

Also, note that waterborne finishes do not achieve full cure for at least 30 days. Until that time, they are susceptible to damage from any kind of alcohol, and may even temporarily become slightly cloudy from water.

[PhreeBYrd]

I forgot to mention... do not use steel wool. Even 4/0 is much too coarse, and contains oils from the manufacturing process which will contaminate the finish.

[ThRoewer]

I forgot to mention... do not use steel wool. Even 4/0 is much too coarse, and contains oils from the manufacturing process which will contaminate the finish.

I found that out the hard way.

I will sand all surfaces smooth and then add a few more layers of paint
As a final finish I may just do a simple rub to remove roughness and then call it a day as the finish is actually pretty good and I rather like the satin look.

BTW: could the thinning of the paint with water cause a weakening of the coat or does it make no difference on the final result?

[PhreeBYrd]

Thinning will only weaken the finish film if you over-thin, which in general, means more than 50/50. At the 10-15% ratio I suggested earlier, thinning will not weaken the finish at all.

You'll find that polishing with pumice and water can give you a glass-smooth finish, although it may not have the level of sheen you're after. Rottenstone will produce a much higher sheen (actually a gloss). To go beyond that requires extremely fine abrasives.

With either pumice or rottenstone, mix a little of the powder with small amounts of water to produce a thick slurry (a little thinner than toothpaste). I use felt pads about 3-4" square and 1/2" thick. They are surprisingly firm and stiff, and very easy to use on flat surfaces. I let the felt pad soak in water for just a few minutes before I start polishing. Don't use the same felt pad for different polishing media. Use a separate, new pad for each. You can use the felt pads over and over ad infinitum, just be careful to dedicate separate pads for each abrasive and keep them separate.

There are many "higher-tech" products for polishing available, but nothing works any better than these two products for 90% of wood furniture polishing.

Let us know how it goes.

[38bill]

I have been using 0000 steel wool for years and it produces a great satin finish. If you rub it farther with a polish (or even a dry rag) it will look like glass so I don't understand what these guys have against using steel wool on a cured finish. You said that you have used a wax already. You must remove all of the wax if you plan to do any more painting. If you dont get every bit of wax off you will get fish eyes in the new coat of finish.

[Kbel1969]

Use a good quality paint. Benjamin Moore satin impervo, and prime it with the alkyd enamel undercoater. Just a couple of splashes of mineral spirits in a gallon can is enough to cut it down for beautiful flow. It dries like it is sprayed on, and super easy to work with. Nothing beats an oil finish, and water is no match! It is by far the best paint you can by, trust me I've tried many by mistake, and this is a keeper! By the way, you won't have to monkey around trying to buff the finish either, if you paint in a dust free environment, you won't have to do a thing when you're done.

[davocean]

This is an old thread, but I will say Benjamin Moore used to be my favorite long ago but they are not what they used to be.
Sherman Williams would be my pick for the best paint, but you will pay 2-3x more for it

[KingFin]

IF your still having trouble I'd say forget the paint you got and just polyurethane the base black, you can even do this, on a level surface, with a course paint brush and watch the lines disappear. Between color coats (let stand 24 hrs to cure, depending on product) lightly sand with 220 grit sandpaper, Wet or dry, for your second color coat to stick... Use a Clear polyurethane hard coat to finish (I think we used Diamond finish brand) and sand with 400 grit before your last clear coat. Buff and polish to your liking. Or skip the 400 grit and buff and polish after you have reached your preference of top coats. Three coats clear will give a real deep piano gloss in most cases.

[JaySchulz]

Any update from the OP on how it turned out?

[Mark426]

Apply as many coats as needed with brush or roller. Sand it smooth and apply the last coat or two with spray paint of the same brand and kind. Either clear or same color. I prefer satin clear. High gloss requires an absolutely perfect surface. Works every time.

[yinbgjn]

Glad you found your way thru their confusing site to order it! http://s.coop/1xsny http://s.coop/1xslc
http://s.coop/1xsld

[ThRoewer]

Any update from the OP on how it turned out?

It turned out OK, but next time I would rather use laminate - paint is just too much work and makes too much of a mess.

[phc567]

Ah. I'm super late to this thread. You could have just treated it like a car. Bondo with a skim finish, sand smooth and painted it like a car. I'm in the muscle car world. And know a few body shops. They would have done it for you for a few bucks. It's pretty easy after you understand paints and have the right tools. If you want to redo it. Lemme know. Your local to me.