what is the most humane way to kill a fish

[Japheth]

I have a yellow tang, that was stuck to a powerhead when I came home today and has been doing terrible since then. I just found it being eaten by one of my crabs and thought it was dead until I took it away from the crab so I could flush it and it started swimming. It is rapidly turning white and there's no chance it will live.

Any suggestions for a quicker painless death?
Thanks

[Lou Cifer]

Put it in the freezer.
Thats what I've done, quick and easy.

[reeferkid]

put it into a qt tank on its own and you maybe able to cure it feed it with garlic enriched food etc and it may recover

[Japheth]

it was WAY past recovery, Probably had an hour max left to live. I put it in the freezer last night.

[Lou Cifer]

You did a good thing.

[Ericp2311]

This may be sound horrible, please don't flame me if you disagree... but I had a similar situation with a yellow tang, and I wanted the deed to be done quickly, so I netted it into a plastic bag, which I placed on the counter. Then I used a rolling pin...

It's grisly, but I know for sure that it was all over insantly.

Just my two cents

Eric

[Lou Cifer]

No, no, that sounds really pleasant.

[WILDTHING]

It may not have been pleasant but I'm sure it was over for the fish in an instant.

colleen

[cwbroden]

i have done the freezer thing on beyond recovery fish. The rolling pin does sound qicker, but i just don't think i could do that.

[tekknoschtev]

My personal opinion is that the freezer is emotionally easier on the person doing it. Think about it. How long does it take a few ounces of water to freeze. The fish is alive during some portion of this. Keep in mind, I'm not being super eco friendly crazyness, just some thoughts from a physics standpoint.

I agree, the rollingpin method is faster, but many cannot bring themselves to do it.

[WILDTHING]

If the rolling pin is too up close and personal, I've always found it quick and not so personal to wrap the animal in some paper towel and put it in a plastic bag then tuck the bag under the tire of my car ....very quick and there is no way to mess it up. For a fish I'd probably wet the paper towel with tank water to make it more comfortable while I was working.

colleen

I really don't know enough to comment on fish anatomy but I've always heard its painful to mammals to freeze to death

[LunarFlame]

The freezer is actually one of the least ethical ways of killing a fish. It's actually quite painful for the fish.

A very humane and almost painless way to kill a fish is in water and adding clove oil. It's like euthanasia.

Next time, stay away from the freezer.

[bigreddog]

We use denatured alcohol, ethanol, for field collections. Most drug stores sell it cheap and it's safe. It euthanizes them quickly.

[LunarFlame]

alcohol is pretty painful too though, unfortunatly, it burns the fish's bodys very much.

[chicod00]

wow

this is very interesting. I have not had to deal with this situation.

I would like to see if we could get a consensus on the most humane thing, not just the most emotionally appealing for us.

I dread the day I will have to do this...

[tekknoschtev]

Clove oil is very powerful stuff. I have read experiences where people use it as an anestetic<sp?> for their puffers to trim their teeth, and one drop too many in the water can euthanize the fish.

Clove oil, it is my belief is the most humane way for the fish to euthanize it. This also isnt too difficult on the person doing it either, just put the clove oil in a bowl of water, and then the fish. Its pretty quick, and painless (as far as dieing goes).

[bigreddog]

Unfortunately, there is no painless way of euthanasia just less painfull methods. I agree that the freezer is not very humane and clove oil will do the trick much more humanely.

We use denatured alcohol because it is quick and doesn't "burn" the tissue, otherwise the specimens would be useless for research purposes.

[Japheth]

I read about the clove oil method a little bit ago and it does seem better than anything else.

Soon as I get a chance I'm going to run out and get some and keep it on hand. I just hope I won't have to use it for a long time.

[Cluckr7]

Why isn't a freezer good? Fish aren't mammals, they're cold blooded. Wouldn't their metabolism just shut down? I don't know, I'm curious too, but I thought freezing was painful to mammals cuz we're warm blooded and our body tries all sorts of stuff to keep our body temps normal.

[deedo]

The IACUC (intstitutional animal care and use commision) requires that fish be euthanized by icing. In my lab we work with zebra danios. We do genetics so that means lots of breeding but we can't have lots of fish so many must be sacrificed. We have to write into our protocols that fish will be sacrificed by icing or we aren't allowed to use the fish. We make up a tub of icewater and float a tank in it, no need to actually freeze the water with the fish in it. It is very fast.
Fish are cold blooded and don't experience freezing the same way a mammal does. I'm not sure how much they can feel temperature at all. This is testable though, cells that sense temperature are well described and it is simple enough to ask if fish have these. I'll look into it.

[WILDTHING]

thats awesome deedo,I for one would be very interested in your findings

colleen

[tekknoschtev]

deedo, its nice to get a professional opinion, or at least procedure. I still like the idea of the clove oil though. I suppose it makes sense, considering they are cold blooded. The ice water bath is also probably better than just straight freezing because it makes contact everywhere, instead of point sources.

[chicod00]

there is definitely a difference between freezing and cooling...

I assume forming crystals in your body tissue would hurt more than being shut down by cooling.

[JCoral]

if a ocean is near by just toss the little guy back to its home

[greenman]

Originally posted by Ericp2311
This may be sound horrible, please don't flame me if you disagree... but I had a similar situation with a yellow tang, and I wanted the deed to be done quickly, so I netted it into a plastic bag, which I placed on the counter. Then I used a rolling pin...

It's grisly, but I know for sure that it was all over insantly.

Just my two cents

Eric


Thats just Wrong!

[jallard]

awww just wing em in the woods for the varments :D :D

J/K never had to worry about this yet...interesting thread

[WILDTHING]

Originally posted by greenman
Thats just Wrong!

No its not. It was probably difficult for Ericp to do but the fish was probably dead in moments instead of suffering a slow death. Sometimes the most humane thing you can do is help the end come quickly.

Because of what I do I see a lot of animals that I wish it was possible to save but its just not. So the only way I can help at that moment is to be quick with what needs to be done. Its not easy but its the only kindness that the situation allows.

colleen

[mungus]

I'm with you on that one colleen!

[scorp1on]

Cats?

[jgoodrich71]

I've always put the fish in a fish bag filled with water, then put this into the freezer. This way the fish does not sufficate while waiting for its metabolism to stop. Never heard of the clove oil before, though, that might be something to try in the future.

[epidemic]

What if a ocean is near by just toss the little guy back to its home


What in the hell are you thinking???????
Thats absurd! Ok so your fish is unhelthy so you release it into a ecosystem where id doesn't belong?
Think eur-asian milfoil, or zebra clams.

[EmergencyDpt]

Put 'em in a blender. The bassmaster.

[onereefnotenuf]

i have kept fw fish since i was 8-9 years old. when i was about 12 i got an oscar. this fish would not eat live goldfish(at first) so i had to find a way to kill the fish without distorting it or poisoning it. of course prepared food would have been the smart thing to do but i was thinking this fish is a predator so it will get fresh meat. the way that worked best for killing goldfish is as follows: 1.unscrew an incandescent light bulb from it's socket.
2. place goldfish in socket.
3. turn the switch.
4. turn off quickly due to "cooking"
I do not reccomend this practice due to obvious fire hazards involved.
i am sure other than the brief period out of water, the goldfish did not suffer.
just as an aside, the oscar wouldn't eat the dead goldfish either, but it took about a half dozen fish to come to that conclusion.
for obvious reasons this isn't a story i have told too often!

[DeeZeal]

Some how I don't think cooking them alive is the most humane way of killing them but I liked the step-by-step procedure.

[ONEMANBAND]

I just feed them to my aggressive tank, nothings faster than a combined wrass, trigger, eel attack. Protein gets out Protein.

[ReeferAl]

Originally posted by scorp1on
Cats?

I think the freezer works for them too.





JK

[Guelphie]

Originally posted by scorp1on
Cats?


Originally posted by ReeferAl
I think the freezer works for them too.
JK

Too funny... :)

[Runner]

I've always placed them in a bowl of water and floated a bunch of ice cubes in the top. Then again, I've only done this with freshwater fish. I've never had to take care of a saltwater critter like this before.

[racer69]

Clove oil.

[Matthew A.]

I have found a quick and powerful crushing of the skull works well. It's one of the quickest ways to bring quick death to endoskeleton organisms if it can be performed in tenths or less of a second. It sounds cruel and murderous but it does the task. Everytime I have to utilize this method to bring about a quick and hopefully painless death to an unfortunate organism, I am saddened that a life has been lost and by my hand. Such is the burden of being human.

[deeporl]

I'd say freezing is most defintly not humane. I think it is a common answer but use some logic. Cold-blooded animals have to regulate their body tempatures. Unlike mammels who body takes care of it for them. So they have to be more sensitive to heat/cold. They need their bodies to be a certian temp when they feel that the temp isn't right they must move to a different location. I know people don't think of fish this way but snakes and lizards are cold-blooded too and we all know a snake will go from the shade to sun if it gets too cold and vica versa. Fish behave in the same mannor. As well as a saltwater enthusiast I'm a fisherman (I eat my fish I don't catch and release please don't flame PM me if you have issue with fishermen and I'll explain my reasoning behind it) I know being a fishermen if its hot out like now I'm better off fishing deep. Why? The fish know they are hot and they go deeper to cool themselves off. So freezing I would say while easiest on the human is not on the fish. Mammals shiver to create heat when we get cold the fish probably has everything in it telling it it needs to find more warmth. Sounds horrible to me. Plus I would venture that they probably sufficate before they freeze so you might as well just throw it out of the tank. While the crushing it with tire/rolling pin sounds unpleasant as long as you started at the head you would crush its brain and that would end it right there. The clove oil sounds reasonable too. As long as the fish dies quickly I would assume it would be like a person walking in to a room filled with carbon monoxide they would die and not realize it. Electricution and or cooking is defintly out of the question. So in my humble opion put freezing at the bottom and if you can handle it crushing at the top or maybe clove oil.

[Nuhtty]

Decapitation.

All higher vertebrates need the brain in order to process painful stimuli.

Freezing is the method of choice for people using fish for experimental purposes...it is the only guaranteed way of killing a fish without dismembering or deforming the fishs tissues. Also, it is the best way to kill them without introducing foreign chemicals to their body which may affects laboratory studies, depending on what you are doing with the animal.

So...freezing isnt the most humane method at all...it is simply the best way to kill a fish that needs to remain intact.

Decapitation is the fastest and most humane way of euthanasia for any higher vertebrate.

[deedo]

Originally posted by Nuhtty
Decapitation.

All higher vertebrates need the brain in order to process painful stimuli.



I have to disagree. Decapitation is no longer a sanctioned method of execution because the brain is the organ that processes painfull stimuli. It can do this fine without a body untill it runs out of oxygen. This can take several minutes (in a human at least.)
The following is conjecture:
A severed arm can cause pain for the rest of the amputees life due to severed root ganglia firing away. The brain of a decapatee will be receiving massive signals from the clusters of severed ganglia. Amputees report an sensations from intesnse burning to itching in the affected limb, a decapatee will be likely to feel this over his/her whole body.



I guess the bottom line is that while the body needs the brain to process painfull stimuli the brain does not need the body to generate it. A decapitated animal will be in intense pain untill the brain suffocates. I don't think anyone can tell us for sure how long this takes in a fish.

[Nuhtty]

deedo

While I agree with your assessment that the brain can still process information without a body I must say that the brain quickly loses the ability to function after only a few seconds without oxygen.

This is evident in medical patients who quickly lose consciousness after short periods of oxygen deprivation either by suffocation or exsanguination.

Consciousness is a lower brainstem function (as is pain perception) so therefore as the ability to maintain consciousness is lost, so is the ability to percieve pain.

The only way that a decapitated person (or fish) would perceive pain for an extended period of time is if vascular structures were somehow left intact.

[Runner]

Freezing is new to me, but "icing" in a bowl of water seems to be quite painless. They don't struggle or even try to jump out. Just slowly stop swaying. This method has been advocated in the freshwater world as the most pain-free and considerate method of "offing" your fish.

[Cluckr7]

IMO, since fish are cold blooded, freezing would be a good method of euthanasia. Their metabolism just slows down to a halt. They die before the water gets anywhere close to freezing. Freezing would be horribly painful for warm-blooded animals, but i think rather painless for cold-blooded animals. Just my opinion based on my logic, Not based on any scientific articles or anything.

[Mickey]

I'm going to pick up some Clove Oil to have on hand, "just in case", and hope I never need it.

How much clove oil is needed? A few drops in a quarter of tank water???? Where to buy it?

Mickey

[Matthew A.]

Consciousness is a lower brainstem function (as is pain perception) so therefore as the ability to maintain consciousness is lost, so is the ability to percieve pain.

That's exactly why a quick stomp used in combination with the sole of heavy boot works best in my opinion. Take away the fishes mechanism that interprets certain nerve impulses as "pain" at the same moment one also disables the fishes neural functions reqired to process those impulses into feedback so they can be analized properly, and "pain" is adverted.

[Hockeyben51]

I think the quickest way to get it over is to take a bucket of water throw in a block of dry ice and the fish will be numbed and no pain can come to him however you dispose of him.

[footclanskates]

There's no way I could do the rolling pin, or any other similar method. I know it's got to be easier on the fish, but I wouldn't be able to bring myself to do it. If the fish is just injured (no disease) I usually feed it to my piranhas

[Hockeyben51]

yes obviously it is much better that the fish be ripped shreads instead of instanlty slapped with mom's rolling pin and instantly die, I think both are crazy ways to kill fish, i prefer that the fish be in less pain than me.

[JHemdal]

All,

The freezing method is what I generally suggest for home aquarists - EXCEPT with temperate species. Tropical fish will become catatonic long before ice crystals form, temperate fish may hang on right down to 32 degrees.
The "do fish feel pain" issue simply can't be hashed out here - even researchers are split on this question. Saying "yes they do" or "no they don't" is meaningless in this context because it is based solely on personal feelings and bias.
Some people have used Alka-seltzer tablets or CO2 from their carbon dioxide reactors in a closed container - this reportedly has some anesthetic effect as well as euthanizing the fish.
I've heard mixed reviews of clove oil - but haven't used it myself. MS-222 (tricaine methanesulfonate) at 250 ppm is the absolute best method and the only one I'll use for fish euthanasia.

JHemdal

[latino277]

Well... I've never had to euthanis a fish... but i can tell you what we do when I go fishing for blue's

1) rip hook out of fish mouth
2) take strong hold of tail
3) Wack against side of boat! or wack on head with stick!

[torchstang05]

What about putting the fish in a bucket and just leave it outside. The water will cool and they will die a nice death. It is not quick but i heard it is a very good way to kill them. Or just feed them to a huge shark, eel or trigger!!

[Hockeyben51]

as long as they can be eaten whole, i think its fine.

[cougaraug]

Who says freezing to death is painful? I've had hypothermia and had a friend who nearly froze to death. It was not painful in any way. RECOVERING from it was.

[jman77]

Smash or cut off it's head....can't get and quicker...

[BrokeColoReefer]

I think the hammer seems most humane.

[addo]

I agree on the hammer, when im out fishing i usally just wack the fish over the head.

[CrazyLionfish]

This is not a proven fact, but I have read that fish may not feel pain in the same manner as we believe they do. I read this on a thread on this website and the guy said, "90% of fish die within the first days of life in the ocean, there would be no reason for them to feel pain" something along the lines of that. Also, I think the cold water would numb some of the pain as well as if this fact is true, they wouldn't feel hardly any pain at all!

[WILDTHING]

Rabbits are a prey species, their purpose is to be one of the beginning mammals on the food chain, same with most rodents thats why they have so many babies. Many rodents have at least 2 large litters a yr and of those 2 litters if 1 or 2 babies survive to reproduce its a lot. They assuredly feel pain. Pain is a great motivator and teacher to animals not to be caught. Being a prey species doesn't mean that you are exempt from pain. Also almost everything is prey to something else. Only man feels that he is outside this cycle.

[jman77]

I think they prob do feel pain.

That's why i think u should just smash/cut his head off.

[CrazyLionfish]

I didn't say they didn't feel pain.. well maybe I did. But I meant they don't feel the pain the same way we do or to the same extreme.

[keener1830]

I find it easier to just flush them down the toliet as nemo said "all drains lead to the ocean"

[Richard Melucci]

Using two rocks is pretty painless, as long as you keep your fingers from between the rocks!

(just Kidding)

[Jonsey]

Wildthing:

I really can't believe someone else has done this! I ran over one of my clowns several years ago and have never heard the end of it from my friends....

He was deathly ill... damaged by an agreessive tank-mate. I thought the best way to end the suffering was to put him in a bag with a little water and put him outside (it was December and about 20 degrees F).

Half an hour later, I look and he's still swimming around.

I feel awful, so I put him in the freezer, thinking it just wasn't cold enough.

An hour later, he's still alive.

At this point, I'm thinking that maybe he wasn't that bad off. Feeling guilty, I put him back in the tank.

The next morning, he's laying on the bottom, still alive, looking at me like 'what ya' gonna do to me now??'

I was a mess. He was my favorite fish, and here I was just prolonging his inevitable death. I didn't have the heart to slam him on the counter or hit him with a rolling pin, so I thought the best way to distance myself from the deed was to tuck him under the back wheel of my car and just.... back up.

That did it.

But my friends still think I'm weird.

[WILDTHING]

I actually thought it up one night when my husband and I were driving home and a bunny ran in front of us. He was so badly hurt that it was obvious that there was nothing we could do but I didn't want to just leave him, so I tucked his head under the wheel then put his body over into the grass so other animals wouldn't be attracted to the smell and die in the road as well.

Let your friends think what they will you know you did the right thing.;) Guess who they'll be calling if they find themselves in a *situation*.:)

[Jonsey]

Well, let's hope they don't have to!

Nice cockatoo, by the way. I had one a long time ago when I was a teen. He was wild caught and mean as a ... well, you can imagine. Within 2 weeks of working with him, he'd cradle in my arm and let me pet his belly. Had to get rid of him when he hit puberty, though - WAY too loud for my parents. I wonder what he's doing these days...

Sorry, didn't men to threadjack.

[Runner]

I just got one of those floating magnets the other day and promptly squished my finger. If you get one that is rated for the 125G+ aquriums, place the fish between the two pieces, then move the them closer together...

Well, you get the picture. Needless to say, little Nemo will be removed from this world rather quickly.

[cbicop]

I have always put the animal in a small tupperware container and then froze it. The idea being that the animal slows down and eventually just goes to sleep well before the actual "freezing" ever takes place. Freezing to death is probably one of the best ways to go even for a human.

[WILDTHING]

Jonsey, I got very lucky that LaLa is a girl. When I got her I had no idea that males become so aggressive during their mating months. She is a sweet well tempered and relatively quiet little girl. There must be someone looking out for fools like me who fall in love with birds that take one look at you, jump on your hand cuddle under you chin and whisper "I love you" while kissing you and laughing.

[Jonsey]

Good for you she's quiet! Barney wouldn't really get agressive, but he would stand on top of his cage and let out the loudest screams I ever heard, flapping his wings all the while. He'd only stop when I would hold him and at bedtime. He had me trained very well...

They are the sweetest birds, though.

[Esper]

i've laughed, i've cried...am i sick for thinking this should be a thread of the month?

[wimplefish]

I have had to do the freezer thing to a few of my fw fish luckily no salt fishes yet.
I had a cat once that the vet said had a urinary problem cant remember what but they want 250 dollars to put him down so i had to acually put him to sleep with a 12ga. now thats hard to do I mean I love my fish but they dont jump in your lap and start purring so in my honest opinion Id go with the freezer
or the 12ga im only joking

[WILDTHING]

frankly since I'm not convinced that they don't feel the pain of slowly freezing to death, I'd go with the 12ga on the fish over putting it in the freezer. I'm not kidding. It might be messy but it sure would be fast.

[ruppel]

I'll put in my vote for Thread of the Month--such a range of emotion!

[Brian32FSU]

Originally posted by JCoral
if a ocean is near by just toss the little guy back to its home

This act is incredibly irresponsible. Adding a foreign species to a local ecosystem has led to catastrophic damages in many places in the world. Remember, a good deal of the fish aquariusts buy and keep tend to be from the Indio-Pacific region, and are not found in any waters off the US. I'd rather see a fish just be left on the countertop and suffocate, or run over by a car than be responsible for causing some kind of damage to the local fish population by disease or any other ill effects from releasing and exotic species into the wild.

[Mr.Maska]

ok this is a easy one put the fish in a 5 gallon pale and give a 2 year old a stick and what them have the time of there lives as they cheer FISHY, FISHY DADDY........HAHAH just kiddin
I would just hit it and instantly put it to rest i cant stand to see a fish suffer:(

[Scuba Oz]

The most humane and quick way is severing the head.

[rangerfan]

rolling pin man that is pretty intersesting

[SunnyX]

Originally posted by Ericp2311
This may be sound horrible, please don't flame me if you disagree... but I had a similar situation with a yellow tang, and I wanted the deed to be done quickly, so I netted it into a plastic bag, which I placed on the counter. Then I used a rolling pin...

It's grisly, but I know for sure that it was all over insantly.

Just my two cents

Eric

WOW:eek1:

Whatever happened to flushing it down the toilet?

[fangblenny]

"if a ocean is near by just toss the little guy back to its home"-JCoral
This response was far more disturbing to me than killing a fish with a rolling pin.


This may kill far more fish than just the one you intended! Please, please, never return a fish "to the wild." Fish from pet stores or breeding facilities may have been exposed to diseases from all over the world. Also, surviving fish may start a breeding population and compete with native fish, or eat them! Lionfish introduced to the east coast of the US are a good example.

[cougaraug]

or sewer alligators.

[jezzeaepi]

Wow I cant believe people still think freezing fish is humane.

When I worked at a fish store we always putt hem ina specimin container and added baking soda. The baking soda releases co2 into the water which not only euthinizes the fish but also causes no pain.

[jezzeaepi]

Oh yah and the rollerpin method should be fine as long as your very quick and start with the head.

and kudos to the step by step fishy electric chair

[deedo]

Perhaps we anthropomorphize our fishes too much. Check this out:

http://uwadmnweb.uwyo.edu/Zoology/faculty/Rose/pain.pdf

here's a brief, oversimplified summary for those who don't want to spend an hour reading about fish pain:
Turns out fish lack the brain centers we use for experiencing pain and fear. They have a glandular responce to bad stuff that makes 'em look scared but they can't 'feel' it the way we do. Bad stuff is still bad for fish because they can't controll their responce so they can bash into rocks and hurt themselves or hide untill they starve etc. --> The ethical aquarist will still try to take good care of his/her fish and avaid 'scaring' them because it can hurt them to be 'scared.'
--> euthaniasia can be whatever makes you comfortable.

That said, here is a list of IACUC (institutional animal use and care commission) approved euthanasia protocals. Interesting that most have been arrived at independantly by home aquarists.

Fish

Tricaine methane sulfonate (MS222)
Benzocaine
Barbiturates
Inhalant anesthetics
CO2
2-phenoxyethanol
Conditionally acceptable - stunning followed by decapitation/pithing; decapitation and pithing

Decapitation of fish, amphibians and reptiles should be followed by pithing. Use as a sole means of euthanasia in any species requires scientific justification and IACUC approval.

Under very specialized circumstances, stunning, rapid freezing or air embolism (under anesthesia) may be allowed in small species if research needs make it necessary and there are no available alternatives.

taken from:
http://www.ora.ucr.edu/vet/Primer/biomethodology/euthanasia.htm#FISH

[deedo]

Oh and just so you all know, I love my fish! Personally, I set aside my knowledge of fish neurobiology for my home aquarium. I am very comfortable ascribing a huge range of emotions to my fish: fear, happiness, sadness, excitedness, anger etc. I know it's all an illusion but MY mind is designed to empathize with animals. I would be heartbroken to have to euthanize a fish at home. At work, it is a necessity.

[Runner]

I'll have to try the fish in a bucket and giving it to a kid the next chance I get.

;)

[Javeo]

Personally i use a meat cleaver. its not nice to do but when vets want $40 to put down a $5 quail! i mean seriosly

[onereefnotenuf]

i have a large number of fish i need to euthanise. please send large quantitys of barbituates asap!!!:D

[Runner]

I'll have to remember the meat cleaver next time. Several months ago I needed four pellets to finish off a mockingbird caught in the grill of my car. That was more than a little gruesome and prolonged.

Then again, I could have just pried the bird out, gave it to my kids in a bucket (with a stick) and let them wander around poking it going "Birdie! Birdie!! Birdie!!!".

:D

[gearow]

Is there something you can inject in them, kinda of like when you need to put a dog down(or a pellet gun to the fish)

[Gawain1974]

I've never had to euthanize a SW fish, but I have decapitated a betta before. I've thought about freezing/cold water bath, but I keep getting images of Leonardi holding onto Kate Winslet's hand--seems like that would take too long. It seems as if the best method would be whatever is quickest, whether it be a rolling pin, cutting the head off, the car method, or the clove oil. How quickly does the clove oil work? If you want less of a hand's on approach, this seems to be the best way.

I do wonder how many of us just let the fish expire on its own when they know it's dying and there's nothing that can be done?

[DonavonsReef]

WOW you people really seem to enjoy talking about killing your fish (lol). I have never had to kill a fish in eight years. If a fish gets sick or dies it gets dragged under a rock and eaten by my clean up crew. It's a natural cycle & my skimmer does the rest.

[blkSupra]

Originally posted by WILDTHING
If the rolling pin is too up close and personal, I've always found it quick and not so personal to wrap the animal in some paper towel and put it in a plastic bag then tuck the bag under the tire of my car ....very quick and there is no way to mess it up. For a fish I'd probably wet the paper towel with tank water to make it more comfortable while I was working.

colleen

I really don't know enough to comment on fish anatomy but I've always heard its painful to mammals to freeze to death

WTH! You were kidding right? I would much rather have hypothermia rather than to get crushed.

You need some help..

[WILDTHING]

Originally posted by blkSupra
WTH! You were kidding right? I would much rather have hypothermia rather than to get crushed.

You need some help..

Since I make sure that the head of the animal is directly under the tire the killing takes less than 2 seconds. My reasoning for doing this is for the animal to suffer as little as possible and for the death to be as quick as possible.

Freezing does not accomplish this.

BTW YOU are not small enough to tuck under the tire of my truck.:strooper:

[chiliaddik]

I have only had to euthanize 2 fish in my day...I take out a pan, fill with water and salt, put it on my stove, boil the water and I boil the fish so that it enures a quick death. Takes about 2 seconds.

[yarquint]

I had a yellow tang euthanize a butterfly for me once- that was a very creepy experience. I was talking with a professor about the quickest way to put it down (it was upside down, floating with a huge "surgical" gash from the Tang's razor). As I reached for it ( to put it in alcohol) it stopped, and it's color faded as the blood stopped pumping. I'll never forget it- while I knew the anatomy/biology of what had happened, it looked and felt like it's soul had left it's body since the color drained "up'...very odd.
At the new england aquarium, I know they had their vetrinary staff give an injection to unsaveable fish- but i'm glad i wasn't there for it.

[stgla]

If you freeze freshwater fish, beware. I had to put down a 6" Comet that lived in my pond here in DC. These guys tough it out through the winter and they're used to cold temps, so it took over a week in the freezer. I should have used less water, but I just hope I don't have to do that again.

[Runner]

Comets are a coldwater fish. On the saltwater side, a barricuda would take as long if not longer to freeze and kill. Heck, I've frozen one stiff for 4 hours only to toss him in the water and watch him swim away 15 minutes later.

[Oskie]

I nearly froze to death once. It wasn't so bad after the cold feeling passed, I just kinda went numb and felt sleepy. The revival process is what can be described and bloody painful!! Trust me on this one..I can't play the piano these days.

The fish in the Obit I wrote was a yellow tang and we just did the flush job...he was already gone.

Oskie

[sciguyman]

Oskie. I agree with what you say about freezing. I live in northern Canada and can defently testify that after the initial shock of cold, its not an unpleasent experience at all. Its even a warm feeling. Of course, that right before your body starts to shut down. Most "natural" ways of dying are like this. For example drowning isn't painful after about 30 seconds. Its more of a relaxed feeling. Similar with starving. Now for fish, I use the freezer.

[cbicop]

Freezing a fish to deah IS the MOST humane way to destroy the animal. Period. End of discussion.

To do anything else like the things discussed in this thread is INHUMANE.

Dont argue with me... I am always right. Just ask my wife!

:)

[Javeo]

LOOK MY GOOD MAN, nothing beats a meat cleaver ok. It just as effective for a fish as for .. well anything else :D

[boxfishpooalot]

Actually what about using one of those heart stopping things that they use for cats and dogs when they need to be "put to sleep". I could handle that. Freezing them is a slow cold death.

[Gawain1974]

Originally posted by Javeo
LOOK MY GOOD MAN, nothing beats a meat cleaver ok. It just as effective for a fish as for .. well anything else :D

LMAO!

You know, as long as you do something to end a fish's suffering, that's the most important thing to keep in mind.

[Javeo]

Oh yea, suffering... right... *puts away meat cleaver*

[Reefologist]

Responses to this thread should be displayed as if to be the fast talking prescription commercial bylines. No one has ever really talked to a fish. At best only a hypothesis can be obtained or offered....happy reefkeeping..

[cbicop]

hmm... so your saying as long as the end result of putting the animal down is achieved eh?

well then I guess a microwaving until it exploded would work!

[Sackwack]

Garbage Disposal. Flip the switch drop the fish in and wahlah dead instantly.

[Javeo]

dynamite? C4?

[DizziDezi2]

Originally posted by Lou Cifer
Put it in the freezer.
Thats what I've done, quick and easy.


thats the worst thing you could possibly do!!!
its a very painful death for the fish...I read it somewhere..... that it causes their cells to expand and its extremely painful. I'll see if i can find the article.

[cougaraug]

It's an extremely peaceful way to go.... I read it somewhere...since they're cold blooded as the temp drops their metabolism stops and they die peacefully, long before their cells freeze.

[redFishblue]

I've seen live fish thrown in boiling water in restaurants.
The fish looked it died instantly.

[cbicop]

are you serious? omg... freezing to death for a fish is the most humane way to go! Their metabolism slows down.. they go to sleep... they feel a feeling of peace and they die.

Cells expand? no way they contract!

[Javeo]

Originally posted by cbicop

Cells expand? no way they contract!

LOL i take it youve forgotten your chemistry/biology lessons.
Water expands on freezing!

[HybridFish]

At trout farms, they require you to hit the fish over the head w/ a metal pipe as soon as the fish is caught. Those things start to spasm like crazy. I say freeze it and then put it in the garden as fertilizer. Kinda like what they do to humans!

[cbicop]

Water expands....

Cells contract....

[Javeo]

:P lol agreed, but the water INSIDE the cells expands so rupturing the cells. The cell membrane isn't strong enough to resist, in effect it causes the cell to expand!.
now no more technicalities!

[cbicop]

turgor pressure would cause the water inside the cell to exit the semipermiable membrane of the cell wall long before it burst.

[nolofinwe]

Episodes of "Gilmore Girls"

not painless, but fast.

[sandisct]

haha

[Javeo]

feed them mcdonalds

[cbicop]

omg mcdonalds would not only kill them but would preserve them for eternity.

[etech]

i've got a emperor that i've had for at least 8 years , he's gotta huge tumor on his face , i can't bring my self to euthanize him even though he takes away from the tank when you look at .
He eats like a pig and other wise seems okay. i've been tempted to take the fish and perform surgery on it but don't want to kill him in the process.....

[Javeo]

if hes fine then leave him be, probably a benign tumor, even so all tumors are packed with tiny blood vessels and cutting it out yourself will most likely lead to the fish bleeding to death.

[cbicop]

An alternative would be to burn the tumor off with a cigarette :)

[Pcomo]

slice a sharp knife through the backbone. fast easy and definately dead. May twitch a bit but its just nerves

[Nashvegas1]

I just deed the fish to my cat

[Javeo]

Originally posted by cbicop
An alternative would be to burn the tumor off with a cigarette :)

dmnit man! you've devised the cure for cancer! hoora for smokes

[UberNachtfalke]

Uh, I don't think the point of putting the fish in the freezer was to torture it.

With a fish being the size that it is, it can't take long for it's body temperature to go down quickly. Our body temp., if I remember correctly, drops rapidly once it hits 90 degrees. It probably takes two seconds for the fish to actually die, and all of the body systems are probably just shut down. The only painful thing about it would be it having to breathe air directly, but then again, it wouldn't be for long.

My solution: Stick it in the freezer for a few seconds, it can't live that long.

[cougaraug]

uhhh, fish are cold blooded, not warm. therefore, body temp=water temp.

[UberNachtfalke]

Uh, exactly what I was trying to say. Meaning if you put them in the freezer, their body temp would rapidly drop just fast enough that all of their systems shut down.

Kinda like Hypothermia.

[cwegescheide]

The last time I had a sick fish I took my AK-47 and Euthanized it. Nothing a 100 rounds of hot lead wouldn't fix....



Just kiddin... :) (I only used 70 rounds....) :lol:

[LunarFlame]

Freezing a fish is not humane. It actually causes the fish a graet deal of pain. Again, the only method I would use, is clove oil, folllowed by alcohol.

[LunarFlame]

again, I encourage people to read this thread:
http://tropicalresources.net/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=3720

[cougaraug]

the guy in that thread who said he talked to his vet is full of crap (or maybe his vet is). directly from the AVMA website, under the special considerations heading AMPHIBIANS, FISH, AND REPTILES-- "use of clove oil is not acceptable" followed by "euthanization by cooling of REPTILES is inhumane, EVEN IF combined with physical or chemical methods" At no time does it deal with fish, particularly warm water marine species.In fact, the only openly endorsed methods mentioned are decapitation (followed by pithing), or injection (and the injections are $$$, according to my sister, a vet)
I use freezing (as I have said before), after conversations with several PhD's of marine biology, and a vet (my sister, as mentioned above). according to them, the enzmes used in metabolism in tropical marine fish basically cease to function at about 50 degrees. Also, while there is evidence that fish feel discomfort, that can't be equated to feeling pain the same way we do.
Also, the guy that claims that most sharks are warm blooded is wrong. some sharks, while still basically ectothermic, can slightly raise their body temps above that of the surrounding water for short periods of time (Great Whites and Makos use this to give them bursts of speed for hunting, for example)

[Fmellish]

Hammer. It's the only way to go.

Works great on mice caught in sticky traps also.

Just make sure you have good aim, and with mice, there will be quite a bit of splatter.

[Javeo]

Why not an axe? you get the decapacitation of a knife and the power of a hammer! best of both worlds

[cbicop]

ok if your looking for a fast humane death just put it in the ole blender and turn it on high. Presto! Instant death.

How can you possibly deny that?

[coreygoforth]

flush 'em

[CuChuRocket03]

Yeah I'd say flush it down as well, at least thats what I do...

[gkarshens]

I accidentally dropped a beta down the garbage disposal once. I tried to get it out but couldn't...
Turned on the water and flipped the switch.
Took about half a second.

[xtm]

Originally posted by epidemic
What


What in the hell are you thinking???????
Thats absurd! Ok so your fish is unhelthy so you release it into a ecosystem where id doesn't belong?
Think eur-asian milfoil, or zebra clams.

do you actually think a single fish can ruin an entire Ocean? millions of fish die in the ocean every hour and the process continues everyday...

[cbicop]

A fish that has parasites or a certain strain of a disease that is not indigenous to the area where you release your diseased fish could indeed wipe out the native local population that doesn't have a natural immunity to that particular disease.

I think you know this and are just trying to start something...

[RevHtree]

I cannot believe I just read this entire thread.....

One way to put a fish to death is to drop into the tanks of some of the lfs here in Chattanooga......

[Texas Aquarist]

I just feed them to the neighbor's cats who are always crapping in my rose beds. Quick and painless for me, nutritious for the cats.

I am just kidding by the way. I have stuck them in the freezer as well.

[Cutiewitbooty]

I have done the freezer method on a sick GSM one time. It didn't take very long and he didn't struggle or anything like that, so I asume it wasn't painfull. I know most cold blooded fish, reptiles, ect.. go into a state of hibernation before they actually die so it's not painfull.

To the guy with the angel witht he tumor, there are many vets that will do surgury on fish. Look for a exotic animal vet in your area they could at least point you in the right direction. I had a big oscar that got his bottom jaw sliced through by one of my pirahnas and i took him in. They put him to sleep and stiched him up.

[Javeo]

GODS OF MERCY this is still going!

[scubasteve247]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=5337656#post5337656 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Cluckr7
Why isn't a freezer good? Fish aren't mammals, they're cold blooded. Wouldn't their metabolism just shut down? I don't know, I'm curious too, but I thought freezing was painful to mammals cuz we're warm blooded and our body tries all sorts of stuff to keep our body temps normal.


sorry just jumping in, the freezer is a horrible way, the fish is alive for the most part of the freezing process, each cell starting with those closest to the skin start to freeze, even when in water, the cell expands and then bursts, causing extreme pain for the fish, thats why the fish is constantly flipping out. flopping spazing. its a very painful ordeal, if you dont have a problem with up close, use a knife.

[Cutiewitbooty]

When i did it, the fish never filpped out or anything. They go into a type of hybernation and are unconscious before they even start to freeze. I think once the water gets about 40-50 degrees is when they black out. I don't see how dying in your sleep is that bad....

[ficklefins]

A friend once made a wash of nicotene using some chewing tobacco. Just place the chewing tobacco in some water for a bit till the water was really dark. Once the water was dark enough just throw the fish in. The fish will die of nicotene overdose instantly. It worked for some FW fish. Once they hit the water they died, no struggle or movement. Just plop and death.

Not trying to make fun of fish death or redneck culture but nicotene in high amounts is deadly for almost any animal.

[Javeo]

Come on guys this is getting silly. Millions of fish die in much more painful ways for us to eat. After the stress of capture they are either crushed to death, suffocate or are processed alive. That we need to euthanise i fish in the first place means we're probably saving it longer term suffering. Any way that kills it quickly would seem the humane way.

[bmcnicol]

I would go with just releasing it back into the ocean, its easier on the owner because theres always the little, tiny, eensie, weensie, ity, bity, microscopic, super small possibility it might live, especialy if its a damsal fish.

[bmcnicol]

I would go with just releasing it back into the ocean, its easier on the owner because theres always the little, tiny, eensie, weensie, ity, bity, microscopic, super small possibility it might live, especialy if its a damsal fish.

[Cutiewitbooty]

OMG that is so stupid..................Not to mention illegal. By releasing that fish you could be introducing new pathogens into the ecosystem, possibly infecting many other fish in that habitat. It could also conpete with other fish for food, it could only take a few people doing what u would do to to create a breeding population an that could send native species to extinction.....

[Javeo]

Thats also not quite right, how do you think ships empty their ballast tanks? They fill up with water in japan, sail to the US and empty all those tons of water with all the stuff living init. This happens everyday all over the world. I agree its not best to release non native species, but its more of a risk with inland and terrestrial animals

[duhfactor]

This is hilarious :lmao:
D

[Senn]

Personally I use liquid nitrogen, by the time the fish hits it its to late.

[WILDTHING]

OMG!!!!! If there was a monthly nomination for "the thread that would not die" this one would win in a second.:p :p

colleen

[cougaraug]

I think that we have established that euthanizing any animal under any condition is inhumane, right?

[WILDTHING]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6483184#post6483184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cougaraug
I think that we have established that euthanizing any animal under any condition is inhumane, right?


:eek1: :eek1: :rolleye1: Ahhh NOPE.

Why would quickly ending the suffering of any creature that had no hope of survival and was suffering be considered inhumane? On the contrary I would hope that compassion for a suffering animal and a wish to "put it out of its misery" would be considered VERY human.

I've had to kill many times to stop the suffering of an animal that was not going to live and had no hope of medical intervention, its not easy and it can be a heart wrenching decision but in the end it was done for the right reason and most importantly QUICKLY.

colleen

[cougaraug]

it was intended as a joke. yet another reason why this thread refuses to die.

[WILDTHING]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6488780#post6488780 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cougaraug
it was intended as a joke. yet another reason why this thread refuses to die.


:confused: :eek: since I can't see your expression or hear the tone of your voice its hard to know when you are being sarcastic.

Emoticons are your friend:strooper:


colleen

[donta42]

i had a buddy that had a dying clownfish, he just flushed him downthe toilet .

[Javeo]

I think the question now should be 'whats the most humane way to kill a thread?'

[GSerg2]

>> ok if your looking for a fast humane death just put it in the ole
>> blender and turn it on high. Presto! Instant death.

>> How can you possibly deny that?

Yeah, but I don't think I would want to mix margaritas in that blender again. blech!

[cougaraug]

remember the SNL skit "The Troutomatic"?

[clord]

I smash them with a hammer... no pain is the way to go

[cougaraug]

I sent one on a rocket to the sun!

[BradL.]

Garbage disposal

[Serioussnaps]

If you have cats you could feed it to them.

[Cutiewitbooty]

i used to do that to guppys when i was like 6yo, i thought it was cool, then i would feel bad and cry lol

[The_Reef _Man]

i just cut their head off with a nice. Simple, fast and effective.

[whitetiprs]

If you have access to lab chemicals then MS triple 2 is the way to go, it is a cocaine derivative that we use where I work to anestitise or kill fish.

[jiggy]

smash it with a brick as hard as u can.. it wont feel a thing.. alot better than freezing it to death

[Runner]

The voice of experience: don't try a CO2 pistol. It takes too many shots to hit the nervous center. A brick would be much better...

[phil5613]

Throw it in the ocean? You actually have people worried that 1 sick fish thrown in the ocean will be ecological suicide? Hope this people arent advocates of drip acclimation. The shock alone is probably enough to kill the fish when thrown in the ocean, plus sick fish = easy pickings for predators. The ocean is not one of our tiny weenie fish tanks you arent going to infect the whole coast with one sick fish the dilution alone makes that improbable. decapitation, freezing, poisioning, running over or drive by with the 12 gauge/ak combo is much quicker then slow death in the tank. Enough said! Do fish feel pain...Jury is out still. ending the pain quicker is still humane so what ever the flavor its the thought that counts.

[jobiwan]

In the fish store I worked in years ago the manager would smack the net with the fish against the wall or sidewalk, I suppose it was fast and painless, but I could never bring myself to do it....

[ZoeReef]

Actually, you bring them into a beautiful room with music playing, you surround them with videos of fishes and scenes of the Great Barrier Reef. As the fish begins to smile, you gently place two drops sleep potion into the water and then reprocess the fish into Soylent Fish

[cougaraug]

I eat mine. I just pull them out of the tank and serve them up with fava beans and a nice chianti.

[iCam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7072964#post7072964 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ZoeReef
Actually, you bring them into a beautiful room with music playing, you surround them with videos of fishes and scenes of the Great Barrier Reef. As the fish begins to smile, you gently place two drops sleep potion into the water and then reprocess the fish into Soylent Fish

I was just watching that the other night :lol:

[sandsmarc]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7073184#post7073184 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cougaraug
I eat mine. I just pull them out of the tank and serve them up with fava beans and a nice chianti.

LOL, no one is beating that. This is now an ex-thread.

[TereKers]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6378139#post6378139 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by scubasteve247
sorry just jumping in, the freezer is a horrible way, the fish is alive for the most part of the freezing process, each cell starting with those closest to the skin start to freeze, even when in water, the cell expands and then bursts, causing extreme pain for the fish, thats why the fish is constantly flipping out. flopping spazing. its a very painful ordeal, if you dont have a problem with up close, use a knife.

This is true.

[yeame]

just flick it in the back of the head to break neck its done in seconds no pain no wory

[Runner]

Um. Where is the neck located on a fish? :D

[cougaraug]

between the head and the shoulders (just head north from the feet).

[piranhaking]

these people discussing pain of cells bursting are not really thinking. with a cold water species that may be an issue, but im pretty sure most of us here are discussing warm water tropical fish. In that case i am almost possitive that they loose conscienceness LONG before any actual freezing. it would not cause any pain. The reason we feel pain from situations like that is that our core body temp is staying up high enough to keep us alive while other parts of us are dying. in cold blooded species that wouldnt happen. they would be dead long before any real freezing. I also suspect that the rolling pin comment that keeps being mentioned was a smash and not a squish. They may have rolled over it, but i would say they used the pin same as a hammer or meat cleaver. I have only dealt with a few sick or injured fish. I flushed them usually, but i wont even begin to say that is a humane method. Also the electruction i am almost sure would be painless. It would cause death quickly enough that no pain could be felt i would think. I think that as long as the clove oil doesnt burn the fish's gills, etc. that it would be the best method. It would be very similar to lethal injection, which i think is assumed to be the most humane way of fulfilling a death sentence for a human.

[supersurfer12]

lol I eat mine man thats hilarious o btsw sorry for bringing this thing back from the dead

[iCam]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=7049736#post7049736 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by phil5613
Throw it in the ocean? You actually have people worried that 1 sick fish thrown in the ocean will be ecological suicide? Hope this people arent advocates of drip acclimation. The shock alone is probably enough to kill the fish when thrown in the ocean, plus sick fish = easy pickings for predators. The ocean is not one of our tiny weenie fish tanks you arent going to infect the whole coast with one sick fish the dilution alone makes that improbable. decapitation, freezing, poisioning, running over or drive by with the 12 gauge/ak combo is much quicker then slow death in the tank. Enough said! Do fish feel pain...Jury is out still. ending the pain quicker is still humane so what ever the flavor its the thought that counts.

Well, you are still probably introducing a non-native fish.

As far as the "1 sick fish" comment, that's pretty asinine. It's estimated there are ten million viral particles in every drop of water. It's not simply "as soon as the fish dies, any illness goes with it".


http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=20117406

[cougaraug]

ahhhhh. it lives again!!! kill it !! kill it!!

[Texa$]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=6679004#post6679004 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by cougaraug
I sent one on a rocket to the sun!


I did that to a mouse once. He even had a two hour training session and briefing of the mission, but the rocket exploded seconds after take off. He was ejected from the rocket and was badly burned. He met his demise with a giant log.

[sdc19982002]

I just love it when this question comes around.

[MileHighFish]

put him in ur water pipe!!

[MileHighFish]

aka bong

[MileHighFish]

i did that to some gold fish in high schl.... they got trashed!!! then i feed them to my oscar's... i guess thats not humane.. sorry

[DgenR8]

g stone,
You have enough reasonable posts here to save you from those last three ^ above. That's your get out of jail free card, and it's now spent.