Oyster Reef Ecosystem Tank

[Chasmodes]

One of my dreams was to duplicate the oyster reef environment of the Chesapeake Bay as best I can without predation. My plan is to have a 120g corner quarter cylinder tank with a live sand from the Chesapeake Bay and perhaps some of the rock there for the live rock. I'll purchase some porous base rock and take my time getting the bio filtration going. I'll have a refugium/sump too, probably 55g.

Animals will be collected from the Bay that live side by side in this environment:

Chasmodes Bosquianus - striped blenny

Hysoblennius hentzi - feather blenny

Naked goby

Skilletfish

Northern pipefish

Ghost shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, etc. for clean up crew that live in the bay.

just about any critter that comes in on the rocks (fish will not be introduced for 6 weeks after the tank cycles and they are QT'd to reduce parasitism).

I may try my luck at some of the other species of fish too eventually.


The actual reef will be an oyster reef but I'm not sure if that will include live oysters or not. I was thinking that if live oysters would be the best way to go to perhaps separate them from the fish in the fuge...my concern is that if one of them dies that I'll have pollution and kill the fish. So really I'm leaning on just using empty dead oyster shells and maybe have one or two oysters in the tank that I can monitor.

The Chesapeake bay is brackish and the salinity varies based on rainfall and runoff, but these fish have bred in captivity with a salinity of 1.015 or so. Also, the environment is colder and there are no coral growth issues.

Has anyone done this? What do you think? The blennies will be my main focus.

[Chasmodes]

Here is a web page that has some excellent film clips of the critters (check out the blennies) that I'm interested in collecting for this tank:

www.baygateways.net/bayvideos.cfm

No mantis shrimp will be in my tank!!!
:D

[reeformadness]

I kept live oysters in my tank for a while and they thrived. Incredibly easy to keep. It was cool that they spawned when I put them in the higher temps of my water. Don't add any oyster drills though. I had on kill all 20 or so of mine. I also gave some oysters to a buddy of mine who put them in his reef tank and they did great too.

[graveyardworm]

Chesapeake bay is cold to right. So your going to need a chiller

[1SickReefer]

I love the idea, I have lived on the chesapeake all my life. I would love to see a system built to match this area.

[Chasmodes]

The Calvert Marine Museum has a tank that has what looks like an oyster bed with the striped blennies in there but I believe that they are the only species that live in that tank. They use oyster shells as their reef but I doubt any are alive. I may give them a call or an email and ask them about what parameters they maintain the tank at and some tips about collecting specimens. It's a cool tank! If you're down that way you should stop in and see it. They also have a terrific marine fossil collection.

[Chasmodes]

Well, time to get started. Planning is over. Here's an update:


I'm going to purchase the tank and begin setting it up this week... I'd like a quater cylinder tank. My biggest dilemma is should I get a 120g acrylic or a 90g glass. I have some concerns about getting the tank downstairs, so after measuring I will decide which size tank. I'd prefer the larger tank. I'm not expecting much coraline growth if any so I'm thinking that I'll be OK with the acrylic.

I wanted to get this set up over the summer but time got away from me, so I probably won't have any fish until late spring as it's beginning to get cold outside, so I'll have plenty of time to cycle the tank and get the aquascape just right.

Aquascape plan: I'm going to make a piling with mussel shell clusters (not live but glued shut), the piling will be a plastic creation with an outer layer of foam sculpted to look like wood and painted with epoxy paint. I'll add local live rock and maybe add a few chunks of tropical LR for the fuge to get the tank cycled, then the rest of the LR will be man made ala the Travis method, but I'll incorporate whole oyster shell to give it more hiding spots and give it that oyster reef look.

Since this tank will not require intense lighting (usually the bay is murky so it's nowhere near they coral reef needs for intense light) I won't need a chiller. I also hope to get some of the brown algae common in these waters to live in the fuge and maybe the display tank down the road. The tank will be downstairs where our room temperature is constant and cool. Water temperature should be 70 to 74 degrees. All of the fish that live in this environment can tolerate wide ranges of salinity and temperature as with most creatures that live in estuarine environments year round. In the summer, they can be found very shallow, right at the tide line where water temperatures exceed 80 degrees, in the winter they migrate to deeper water where water temperatures can approach 40 degrees. With the lighting I want to make sure that I can mimic day/night changes and maybe incorporate a lunar schedule as well for night time lighting. I'm fairly certain that if I can maintain good water quality and mimic the moon phases I can induce spawning. I may stick to one species of blenny though, probably the striped blenny.

I will try to collect some this fall, but my hopes aren't very high as I think that they are already migrating to deeper water. So my tank all winter long once cycled will be a Chesapeake Bay invertebrate tank more than likely, although I have caught some clingfish this time of year before. Once I get the tank set up I'll begin posting pictures in the next couple weeks. I'm excited about this!

[graveyardworm]

I think a constant 70-74 is still going to be too warm, lobster tanks for example I believe are kept much cooler than that. Like low 60's, but i could be wrong. Also I would'nt discount the ability of coraline to grow in cold water tank. I know if I go out onto the rocks at low tide here in NH and turn over rocks the undersides are covered with coraline. I would skip the tropical LR as well, there is going to be a huge amount of die off including the beneficial bacteria. Eventually it will house temperate bacteria, but wouldnt look very natural to the biotope you're trying to simulate.

Good luck with the whole project, cant wait to see some pics.

[saltwater_wannabe]

Here's a link to Steve Weast's cold water tank test. He has some stunning pics as well. This link is to his post on TRT, though he may have posted the same thing here.

http://thereeftank.com/forums/showthread.php?t=73323

[Steven Pro]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8414715#post8414715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by graveyardworm
I think a constant 70-74 is still going to be too warm, lobster tanks for example I believe are kept much cooler than that. Like low 60's, but i could be wrong. Lobster tanks are gnereally kept at 45*F. The big problem with cool/cold water tanks is condensation. Lobster tanks are come with double pane insulated glass. Otherwise, water droplets form all over the outside and drip down the stand making quite a mess. Even at 55*F, this happens.

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8414715#post8414715 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by graveyardworm
I think a constant 70-74 is still going to be too warm, lobster tanks for example I believe are kept much cooler than that. Like low 60's, but i could be wrong. Also I would'nt discount the ability of coraline to grow in cold water tank. I know if I go out onto the rocks at low tide here in NH and turn over rocks the undersides are covered with coraline. I would skip the tropical LR as well, there is going to be a huge amount of die off including the beneficial bacteria. Eventually it will house temperate bacteria, but wouldnt look very natural to the biotope you're trying to simulate.

Good luck with the whole project, cant wait to see some pics.

I hear ya. Chasmodes bosquianus and the other fish are also found in Florida waters, so I don't think that temperature is an issue. Water parameters in the Chesapeake are constanty changing too, making it tough for sensitive species to thrive there. These fish live all year long with temperatures fluctuating from 40's to even upper 80's and salinity ranging from near fresh water to near ocean salinity in the Bay. Even the invertebrate species found in this biotope have to endure severe fluctuations. I'd welcome coralline growth and I may get that with frequent water changes, but without intense lighting (probably will use fluorescents), would it still grow and thrive in this type of tank?

I've been also thinking about water quality, it doesn't have to be reef like and nutrient free (see the video in the first post). I'm even thinking about using a skimmer (or maybe no skimmer at all) that would be rated for a tank smaller than this, and also going with a wet/dry trickle filter to control ammonia an nitrites. I think that most of the invertebrates will be hydroids, hardy anemones, tunicates, oysters, barnacles and mussels, and other filter feeders. So, the higher nutrients will help them out in addition so some supplemental planktonic feed products perhaps. These inverts don't need as much light. In addition, the bay waters are pretty much mostly murky and filled with nutrients (both natural and, unfortunately, man introduced). That was my thought about introducing tropical bacteria. I didn't expect the bacterial species to be intolerant of these conditions, so that is something that I'd probably have to think about. The tropical LR would be in a fuge anyway, not in the display tank where I'd have DIY LR. The bay rocks just aren't porous enough, mostly made of clay too. That said, your points are well taken and appreciated, I may still purchase or build a chiller for this system eventually if it becomes apparent that my tank isn't doing so well, so when I plumb I'll make sure that I do so in a way that could accomodate that addition.

My main concern isn't so much the inverts here, but getting these fish to breed and thrive. If the biotope works out and I can keep all of these critters successfully, then so much the better :strooper: Also, my other concerns include making sure that the life in the tank benefits from the amounts of nutrients at any given time (and I will have to chart and monitor what levels are best), at the same time having water clarity good enough to study the inhabitants. So, I think that I may use carbon in the wet/dry too.

Another thing that I'd like to simulate is the tide and water movements, not lowering the water but currents. I can use directional flow to simulate water moving in and out of the mouth of a tidal creek for example, where a dock with an oyster reef may reside and form the habitat that I'm trying to duplicate.

Thanks for the input and I plan on using this as a reference in the future, so your ideas posted and those that will be posted may come in handy down the road. I'll be honest when things work or don't work and give the "I told ya so" credits when due as well :D , the point being that all is much appreciated.

I do have some benefit too, that local science has studied and bred these fish in captivity, and also that the Calvert Marine Museum has a similar tank set up (but probably fish only) with lot's of my favorite blennies for the public to see. This tank is my inspiration.

And, thanks GYW for the Steve Weast link. His tank is one of my favorites. I haven't seen that thread and look forward to reading it for potential tips. I'm always on his Oregonreef.com looking for updates and saving his photos as wallpaper :thumbsup:

I can't wait for this to be up and running, and I really want to share the outcome with everyone. I really love this site and you all have inspired me as well!!!!!!!!

[ccoons43]

Hypsoblennius what part of Maryland are you from. I work at St. Mary’s College which sits on the St. Mary’s River which I believe is similar to the bay. The biology dept. at the school does research on the river and has an approx. 120 gal tank setup in the lobby of the science building that only contains life they collect from the river. If you want I can get some pics for you when I go to work. They also do a lot of research in the wet lab on the specimens they collect.

go to this link to see a map of where the river is in reference to the bay:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=st+marys+city&state=md&zipcode=

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8420209#post8420209 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ccoons43
Hypsoblennius what part of Maryland are you from. I work at St. Mary’s College which sits on the St. Mary’s River which I believe is similar to the bay. The biology dept. at the school does research on the river and has an approx. 120 gal tank setup in the lobby of the science building that only contains life they collect from the river. If you want I can get some pics for you when I go to work. They also do a lot of research in the wet lab on the specimens they collect.

go to this link to see a map of where the river is in reference to the bay:

http://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&country=US&addtohistory=&searchtab=home&formtype=address&popflag=0&latitude=&longitude=&name=&phone=&level=&cat=&address=&city=st+marys+city&state=md&zipcode=

Yes, thanks, that would be cool! I'd be interested in their studies...I may have to see if they have anything available for the public too (web info I mean).

I live about an hour Northwest of DC in Boyds. The last striped blenny that I caught was this past June off the banks of the Potomac near Pt. Lookout! We'll probably be there next year too (daughter's softball camp), so I plan to have my collection and transport system ready!!!:D

[toonces]

the chesapeake bay water off of chesapeake beach was well over 80F this summer. no need for a chiller unless you decide to keep the temp cool for some other reason.

[greenbean36191]

Just because the water gets that warm doesn't mean the animals do well long term in those conditions. Will they survive? Sure. There is nowhere in the bay that averages over about 65 degrees though. You'll want a chiller, especially if you want the animals to breed. Many of the animals need regular seasonality to induce their reproductive cycles. If you have a year round summer, not only is that stressful, but the animals aren't likely to breed more than once, if at all.

[Samala]

This looks like a very promising project. I'm concerned for the oysters. They will last a long time before expiring existing on very little plankton, but to truly thrive they will need quite a lot of it. If it were me, I'd just have the shells for the decorative effect, and keep myself content with the other invertebrates and fish.

There are quite a few macroalgae, and a few species of SAV (submerged aquatic vegetation) - both brackish and full salt - that would be found on and near oyster reefs. Are you considering adding any of these for cover for the pipefish and others?

Lookin' forward to hearing more.
>Sarah

[tprize]

Wow I want a cold water tank now, but I can't just go outside and steal fish out of the water..... well I could yay I got a delicious bass =) Indiana does not equal the best saltwater environment. Also just to clearify, is it legal to remove ocean creatures without a permit or something like that?

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for the input everyone!

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8422579#post8422579 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Samala
I'm concerned for the oysters. They will last a long time before expiring existing on very little plankton, but to truly thrive they will need quite a lot of it. If it were me, I'd just have the shells for the decorative effect, and keep myself content with the other invertebrates and fish.

There are quite a few macroalgae, and a few species of SAV (submerged aquatic vegetation) - both brackish and full salt - that would be found on and near oyster reefs. Are you considering adding any of these for cover for the pipefish and others?

Lookin' forward to hearing more.
>Sarah

Yeah, I've thought about that too. That was my hesitation about keeping mussels too. I might just use the shells at first. Also, there are a lot of tunicates in the bay, it will be a challenge keeping them alive but I think that they don't need as much plankton as the oysters though so I may be OK there.

The main SAV in the Chesapeake is eel grass. That would be a goal of mine to keep that alive too. Not only will it provide cover for pipefish and seahorses but will help the tank appearance too.

Another challenge may be control of algae. I'm sure I'll have some growing pains but once I find the right combination the tank should be easy to maintain.

Salinity in the Lower Chesapeake of MD ranges from 15-18 ppt. I'll start with that until I have fish in the tank then will gradually raise it to help control slime algae if need be.

[Chasmodes]

I've been thinking about some issues previously identified and I think that I have solutions.

1) Not using tropical live rock. I agree and think that I can do this in the following way: I'll make my own rock out of cement, salt, and oyster shells, deposit the "kured" DIY rock in my tank for aquascaping, use Chesapeake Bay live sand and some bay live rock to seed it. And, at the same time, I'm thinking that I can make some more DIY rock, place in milk crate and deposit it somewhere in the bay where it can both "kure" and become live rock over time. This will be an additional critters to my tank and be the basis of my biological filtration.

2) Algae control: there are plenty of algae eating snails and probably hermit crabs too in the bay. I can keep them well stocked in my tank. They should be easy to collect. The fish should leave them alone.

3) In addition to placing DIY rock in the bay, I think that I can also make a basket/milk crate and fill it with oyster shells to collect animals. I'll need permission and a good location to place these, that is the next issue. The oyster shell basket will allow me to easily collect greater numbers of blennies, much more than the netting techniques that I've been using. I may also get more species diversity this way, including invertebrates.

4) Filter feeding invertebrates: I'm leaning towards not keeping live oysters and mussels in the tank now. I agree that the husbandry challenges and eventual results aren't worth the effort. My initial thought was that if I could get oysters to thrive in the tank, the oyster spat would be a continual replenishing food supply for the blennies. I can achieve this simply by using chopped oyster. I'll still have to supply planktonic feed for the other filter feeding organisms like tunicates and sponges that I may collect. I'll have to see how successful I am with them and that will determine the future of this tank. The creation of this biotope is a goal, but having an accurate and complete one might be out of the question. The blennies are the feature fish, so those will be my main concern, and that is creating a good breeding habitat with the simulation of an accurate biotope.

Now all I need to do is find a place to put my DIY rock and my oyster shells. I've thought about placing them below a major bridge piling or perhaps a public pier. But I think that the best approach is to find someone who has access to private pier that would give me permission to place my baskets. Not an easy task for sure.

[graveyardworm]

I agree and think that I can do this in the following way: I'll make my own rock out of cement, salt, and oyster shells

I made a bunch of DIY rock myself when I first started in much the same way. I used crushed oyster shell, sand, and portland cement. I wouldnt do it again, and I'm now slowly replacing it with real LR. My reason for wanting to get rid of it is it seems to be a preferred substrate for nuisance algae, more specifically green bubble algae it also tends to collect alot more detritus than real LR possibly because it is much more porous. I was able to create some really nice shapes though. Mixing the ingredients in different amounts will make the rock more or less porous. So alittle experimentation may get you something better than what I made. Awhile back I read somewhere here that crushed oyster shell may also be a source of phosphates so you may want to keep that in mind and use aragonite instead.

Also I would not use salt in the homemade rock, its going to eventually dissolve raising your salinity, and your rock will most likely crumble.

What kind of rock do you find naturally down there in Maryland? Up here its all solid like granite, quartz, and other non porous rock. If I was to create a biotope aquarium from local caught stuff I would use local harvested rock as well, and look for other means of biofiltration/nitrate reduction like a DSB.

[Chasmodes]

I've read about the oyster rock possibly being a phosphate problem...something I'll have to experiment with. Fortunately I don't think that this tank will require much light. I'm going to use whole oyster shells in the LR mostly for cosmetic reasons, so the rock will look more like an oyster reef, not crushed oyster shells, so maybe that will help. Also, the salt in the DIY LR will be long dissolved before it goes in the display tank, so that shouldn't be a problem. I also plan to mimic tidal movements, so hopefully that will help keep slime algae down to a minimum. The rocks for use in the display tank will look like large clumps of oysters, hopefully with lot's of nooks and crannies for blenny hiding spots. I'll scatter some oyster shells on the sand bed too. My initial plan was to scatter oyster shells as the entire display, but I felt that I needed the filtration of the LR in addition to the sand, so why not incorporate both?

The rock found in the bay is mostly clay based...not very porous. There is some sandstone as well. All of it seems to come from Calvert Cliffs. It may have enough of the right bacteria to seed the rock in addition to the live sand. Sand is plentiful, mostly silica and quartz I think.

I think that in this system there may not be a wrong way to do it simply because these animals are so hardy. That said, I'd like to find a successful system and give these animals optimal conditions... This system won't have the color and beauty of a reef, but it will have it's own appeal. Actually, the male striped blenny gets extremely colorful during spawning! If that happens then I'll know I'm on the right track.

[Chasmodes]

I just thought of something...maybe not for a display but for the fuge. People are always dumping stuff in the bay, mostly that is a negative thing. But for me, maybe it could be a positive thing. I wonder if discarded broken cindar blocks would make for good LR, they are plentiful just about everywhere in the bay. They are certainly porous enough. Anyone know how these are made and/or if they would be bad for a system like this? That way, I wouldn't have to wait for DIY rocks to cure to get the tank cycled.

[graveyardworm]

Here's a couple threads you may be able to pull some info from. if you havent read them allready.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=722059&perpage=25&highlight=temperate&pagenumber=3

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=890751&perpage=25&highlight=temperate&pagenumber=1

[Sarah D.]

My killifish caught off of Chesapeake Beach do just fine in the higher temp of my tank. Though I should say that they were caught this summer when the shallow temps were pretty high.

They breed like crazy. The raised salinity hasn't affected them.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for the links David. I haven't read them, will check them out.

Sarah, I was amazed at how much life there was in the shallows this summer. I do a lot of sharks tooth hunting and there was life everywhere, fish, crabs, and the water temps had to be in the 90's. Even at massive low tide, I'd pick up a rock hoping for a megalodon underneath and fish would shoot out in less than an inch of water! I may bring home some rock from there. If it's from the right Shuttock's zone, maybe when it breaks up there'll be a meg in there! :)

You can bet that I'll have some sand from that area in my tank! Might help me find some micro sharks teeth too... The sharks teeth in the sand bed will add to the asthetics:thumbsup:

[ccoons43]

here are the pics of the tank. I have a useless camera so the pics are not the best.

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank025.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank018.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank019.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank012.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank026.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank029.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank032.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank022.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/schaefertank015.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

I will try to get some data from the prof. as soon as possible

[ccoons43]

T

[ccoons43]

This guy was in the tank but is now gone

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/fish2.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/fish1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[AVALover5498]

That's an amazing tank. Looks like it should belong in public aquarium. Good luck.:)

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for the pics ccoons43! I wonder if they need specimens? If I have extra when I collect I'd be willing to give them to the school.

The last two pics are Chasmodes bosquianus (striped blenny), which will probably be the dominant species in my tank (that is my plan anyway). Nice pics of the blenny too, probably as good as any that are on the net. Hopefully if my system is successful I'll have a male in breeding colors to post :p I also expect that I can get the skilletfish and the gobies to breed as well.

I was hoping to get some Hypsoblennius hentzi blennies too, but the more I read about them the more I've determined that they are probably found a bit deeper than I'd be able to collect. Maybe this will inspire me to recertify for diving after all these years since my cert expired. If I happen on some of them then that would be a bonus, but I want a tank full of striped blennies for sure.

Looks like the other types of fish that I can make out in there are banded killifish, mummichogs, spot or croakers?, small striped bass, and a toadfish. Intesting about the oyster reef, they built it like a wall. I was thinking about aquascaping the back walls in a similar way with a fake piling and a couple oyster rock islands over a sand bed. When I'm done making my DIY rock/oyster clumps I'll post a link to the pics that I'm going to post on the DIY rock thread :D I'm going to start making those rocks ASAP so they will be reef ready by the time my tank comes in. I need to find a supply of old oyster shells, that's my project this weekend. If I can get them quickly then I may have some time to make my first batch of rock/reef.

[ccoons43]

The biology class collects stuff all semester, I always check the tank for new stuff. the two white tubs one with oysters and the one with crabs are in the lab and are an open system with water continuesly pumped from the river. They also use the lab to keep corals and some sw fish.

I didn't take the pics of the blenny that's why you can see him. The pics were taken by a co-worker who spends as much on his cameras that some do on their reef tanks.

[Chasmodes]

It's my wallpaper at work now! :fun4:

[ccoons43]

here are some more pics from the tank that my co worker took

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/crab1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com/" target="_blank"><img src="http://i68.photobucket.com/albums/i36/ccoons43/fish4.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

[Chasmodes]

Nice pics!

I found a good source of oyster shells and purchased some Portland I cement and some solar salt. I had some time to make some rock yesterday but football got in the way! I'll be out of town so it will be a couple weeks before I can start building the reef rock. When that is done, I'll have my first pics.

I currently have a 55g that I was going to use as a QT. I may set that up as a temporary system and see if I can fill it with a few fish while I'm getting everything else done... I love to hunt for sharks teeth along the bay, so I'm thinking that I'll combine one of those trips with some collecting :) The other good thing is that I just purchased a nice pair of waders from LLBean!!!! I'm good to go as long as fish are still in the shallows!!!!!!!!!!

[ccoons43]

If you have not been to calvert marine museum in solomons you should go check it out. They have several displays set up to show the life of the bay and the attached bodies of water. They also have an oyster reef setup. If you ask and tell them your plan you can probably go behind the scenes for a tour. I was there for the reef symposium on saturday and a few members took a tour behind the scenes, But our local club is planning a trip for a behind the scenes tour.

the best place that I am aware of to find shark teeth is Calvert Cliffs state park

Good Luck with the setup

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=8494142#post8494142 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by ccoons43
If you have not been to calvert marine museum in solomons you should go check it out. They have several displays set up to show the life of the bay and the attached bodies of water. They also have an oyster reef setup. If you ask and tell them your plan you can probably go behind the scenes for a tour. I was there for the reef symposium on saturday and a few members took a tour behind the scenes, But our local club is planning a trip for a behind the scenes tour.


Yes, their oyster reef display is the inspiration for my tank! I love that tank!!! Last time I was there with my family my wife nearly tore my arm from my shoulder socket trying to get me to leave that tank! :D I would love to take a behind the scenes tour.

[Chasmodes]

Update! I’ve ordered and paid for an aquarium for my oyster reef. Rather than a quarter cylinder, I’m having a custom cubish style tank built. It’s going to be 36�x36�x18�, 100 gallon acrylic. The sump/refugium will also be acrylic, 36�x12�x18�. I’m going to have a mud style natural filtration system, no skimmer, with live rock (DIY rock as stated earlier). I’ll have pics once the tank has been built and delivered to me. I’m estimating 4 to 6 weeks or so. That said, I’ve been lazy on the DIY rock project. I made a batch of my oyster rock but it turned out poorly. I hope to make another batch soon. When I do, I’ll post pics of those rocks if they turn out OK.

I'm stoked! :D :bounce2:

[Chasmodes]

Update:

I recently heard that my tank is nearly finished and he's building my sump, which will actually be a bit bigger than I first posted which is fine because it's going behind a wall and in the basement out of site. He said it should be ready soon...I'm on the edge of my seat and can't wait to get started.

I'm working on a design for my stand this weekend, if I can finish then I'll post it here. I have much to do to get this rolling. Once stand is completed, the tank and sump delivered, the equipment and plumbing are done, then I'll begin collecting some rock, sand, mud and eventually algae/plants from the Bay and get things cycled properly. If I can't find plants that are suitable then I may purchase some chaeto for the sump, which is probably what I'll wind up doing.

Once the parameters stablize then I'll be collecting the critters, with primary focus on the blennies!!!!

I am so friggin stoked!:bounce2:

Oh, and I'll start posting pics when the tank arrives!

[Chasmodes]

The fun begins!!!!!!!!!!!

Well, I am very excited about this project. I just picked up my tank which is 36"X36"X18", almost 100 gallons, thanks to Jeff (NAGA) who built these for me (awesome job Jeff!!!):

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/OysterReefTank.jpg

Here's the sump, 36"X17"X18", fuge on the right, return on the left. Right now I'm leaning toward all natural filtration, so really the middle section will be involved in that fashion too. If I decide to employ a skimmer then I'll worry about implementation of that at that point.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/OysterReefSump.jpg

Next steps will be to complete the stand, install plumbing, purchase pump and lighting, and then the fun begins, collecting! Collecting will involve first establishing the biological filter using cinder blocks that I'll find along the shore along with some bay live sand. I also think that I may bring in bay water too. When I can find time I'll be making my own LR for the display to replace the cinder blocks later down the road.

[ccoons43]

Looking good so far I can't wait to see it finished.

[Samala]

I'm so excited for you! :D :D

I'll really be following this with interest now that I will be constructing a very similar system, except reflecting Florida coastal oyster reefs.

>Sarah

[TarheelFrag]

the last bushel of oysters I bought I decided o add some of them to my tank. This was about 3 months ago or so. I acked them them by placing them in a larege bowl and adding a small amount of tank water all day until the bowl was full (thus slowly bringing them up to room temp). Then I placed a air stone in the bowl for about an hour before I went to bed. The next morning I did a app. 50% water change on the bowl from my tank. I then let them set for app. 4 hours and them added them to my tank. Of the 4 large oysters I added all of them all still alive and doing great! I also placed some little neck clams in my tank and they are also doing good. Hope the info helps....

[Chasmodes]

<a href=showthread.php?s=&postid=9955662#post9955662 target=_blank>Originally posted</a> by Wampas
the last bushel of oysters I bought I decided o add some of them to my tank. This was about 3 months ago or so. I acked them them by placing them in a larege bowl and adding a small amount of tank water all day until the bowl was full (thus slowly bringing them up to room temp). Then I placed a air stone in the bowl for about an hour before I went to bed. The next morning I did a app. 50% water change on the bowl from my tank. I then let them set for app. 4 hours and them added them to my tank. Of the 4 large oysters I added all of them all still alive and doing great! I also placed some little neck clams in my tank and they are also doing good. Hope the info helps....

Yes it does, thank you! That was my initial goal, to keep some oysters alive too, hence my goal of using a natural unskimmed filtration method with heavy use of macro algae for nutrient export. Also, I was hoping to find a bunch of tunicates to put in the fuge as well and a few other filter feeders too for more filtration. I may have to supplement feeding to keep them alive with purchased planktonic foods, but still it would be very cool to succeed at this.

I have no idea what problems I will encounter. Algae blooms are a primary concern, also perhaps parasitism... I have a QT system already in place, so maybe that will help.

[Chasmodes]

Latest update:

Things are much slower getting this project together than I had planned. Hopefully I'll have everthing up and running and the tank stocked by October.

Major progress made on the stand. It helps when you have friends with the right tools and knowledge. I have to give my buddy Bob credit, although I was there he did most of the handywork. I had designed a stand, roughly 3X3 and a sump stand using Google SketchUp 6, brought my plans to his place and immediately went out and purchased materials. The basic design is still there but we've modified it somewhat, so I'm posting some pics to let you know the progress.

Cutting the 4X4 legs to accept the top and bottom frames:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand01.jpg

Attaching the top and bottom segments to the legs:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand04.jpg

More pics to come in a minute. My plan was to use treated wood, but we had trouble finding any that weren't soaking water logged wet and/or near straight. So, we found some straight lumber and decided to waterproof the frame after assembly.

[Chasmodes]

Here's the frame upright after adding supports:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand05.jpg

Another angle showing supports:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand06.jpg

Here's after we've added the two sides and the top. It's laying on the back, front is up. We've removed the bottom front brace so that we can get this thing out of his place and into my house. Actually, later, we're going to install that front bottom brace and remove the back unfinished one so that we don't ding any of the finished areas:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand07.jpg

The sides and front door will be finished using formica then trimmed with dark wood molding, here's what I've picked:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand08.jpg

Here's the stand as it sits today, upright, front facing:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystand09.jpg

This weekend we'll treat the wood frame and plywood in an attempt to waterproof it (we'll have to remove the plywood and replace it, of course). Also, we need to cut the back; cut, fit and install the door; cut, trim and glue the formica; and the cut and fit the molding. More info to come in the next post.

[Chasmodes]

After the "cube" stand has been completed, then we'll build the sump stand. Here are some facts related to the stand:

Legs = 4X4
Top and bottom frames and the bracing = 2X4
Top = 3/4" plywood
Sides = 1/2" plywood
Finish = stone laminate and wood trim

Here's a pic of my original plan:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/blennystandplan.jpg

At first, I had a 4" lip around the front and sides, but later decided to eliminate that and keep it flush with the tank. The door will be a bit different too, but the basic idea will be the same. The top frame in the plan used 4X4, but we used 2X4 instead.

Here is the plan for the sump stand:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/sumpstand.jpg

The sump will be supported by the 4 legs furthest apart, made of 2X4s and the top will be 3/4" plywood. The rest will support my return pumps and any other purpose that I may come up with.

Basically, the display tank will be in my recreation room downstairs and the sump will be plumbed on the other side of the wall adjoining my basement, in the basement.

[Jah2707]

Looks fun. Keep us updated

[Serioussnaps]

Truly original...I am subscribing. So cool to say hey this is what is in OUR back yard if you know what I mean. Tells a story about who you are and where you are from. I love the blue crabs by the way.

[Chasmodes]

Sorry about the very long delay in putting this tank together. I've had a lot of things going on in my personal life that have put this on hold. Well, I can't stand it any longer so I'm moving forward. I found a very cool YouTube video that shows the biotope that I'm trying to simulate. I'm going to try and duplicate this environment as best I can. Most of the fish you see in this video are gobies, but you get a good look at the blennies at the end of the video (last minute). It would be very cool to exactly duplicate this with oysters and barnacles, but I don't think that it will be possible. Anyway, enjoy the video. In the mean time I have a lot of work to do to get this project going again...next update will be hopefully in the next month or so, maybe sooner.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4ZtwoTbRfI

[Fishfish0001]

Good luck! Can't wait to see it finished!

[The Velvet Sea]

I love local ecosystem inspired projects!

In college my roommate and I had a local fish only tank. We caught plenty of fish in our field ichthyology course. Instead of giving some a formalin bath, we gave them homes! Sea robins, star gazers, pipefish, seahorses, sargassum fish, toadfish. It was great fun.

I had a TA who's masters project involved the filtering capacity of oysters. He used cephalopod ink as the media being filtered (we also have a local cephalopod lab in the area that does neurological and behavioral research). My TA had no problems keeping our local galveston bay oysters alive. You might be surprised how easy they are to keep.

Good luck!

[rckhln]

This is such a cool idea! I love it. I know so little about the Chesapeake Bay, but its supposed to have some really interesting ecology going on. Apparently back in the day, the oyster beds could filter the entire volume of the water in bay in a day. Which is nuts!

The people in my lab are setting up a local biotope tank (Gulf of Maine rocky reef system). But our boss got excited and added a bunch of stuff he picked up diving (frilled anenomes, a wrasse, a bunch of different tunicates) and now the slowly evolving biotope ecosystem has been majorly ramped up. Our boss has a green thumb when it comes to keeping tanks alive though.

Good luck! Looks cool!

[Chasmodes]

Hi all.

Sorry for the lack of updates on this project. For one reason or another, none that you'd be interested in or that I'd care to elaborate on, this project was delayed for several years. I've been a fan of this site and have followed many threads on here even though I wasn't able to really contribute. But, I've given this project new life and hope to have things fully set up as soon as possible.

Here is my to do list:

1) complete the sump stand this weekend.
2) complete the DT stand in the next two weeks. The only things left to do are to add the front door(s), trim, and laminate.
3) build DIY base rock and associated aquascaping (more on that below), and kure the DIY rock.
4) purchase a new RO/DI unit and establish a water change/top off station
5) purchase a new submersible return pump (looking at the Jebao DC3000)
6) drill and plumb the tank, sump, and water change station. This tank has eurobracing, so I've decided on a simple new style of overflow, the H2Overflow. If I can't purchase one (new company, not sure if they're available yet) by the time that I'm ready to run, then I'll design my own version.
7) purchase a new LED lighting fixture. I'm looking at the Aquatic Life Edge 36" unit. I will start with one, then move to two if I later think that I need it.
8) purchase one powerhead, perhaps two if I can afford it. I'm looking at the Sicce Voyager 3
9) fill and test the tanks, plumbing, and water changing stations for leaks and efficiency.
10) add salt and achieve the proper salinity levels. This is a brackish system, but more on the salty side.
11) build an ATS. I don't want to skim at this point in time, so I'm trying this route first. If I need to add a skimmer, I can do that at a later time.
12) obtain live sand from the beaches of the Bay, hopefully from an area with shark teeth. I hope to have enough for the refugium to start. As far as the DT tank goes, that's a lot of sand to collect, so I'm not sure yet if I'll get it from there or try to duplicate the look and texture of what I do collect.
13) purchase test kits and cycle the tank
14) collect clean up critters and other items from the bay for the tank, not fish yet.

I hope to have all of the above done by October. If I can, then I'll try and do the next two steps also, but if not, I might have to wait for warmer weather in the spring. Most of the fish move to deeper water in the winter.

15) set up a QT tank
16) collect fish.

I'm buying all basically new equipment, or maybe used if I can find what I want, because I'm starting from scratch. A septic flood in my basement caused me to trash most of what I had previously.

MY DIY rock. This will be a DIY Oyster Reef Live Rock. I'm following the recipes found on here pretty much, 1 part portland cement, 3 parts salt, and whole oyster shells. I'm substituting the oyster shells for crushed oyster shell because I want to create those oyster clump shapes. I plan on doing sections, with some having PVC rods to create vertical relief, with the ultimate goal of looking like a real oyster reef. Creating this rock will be a slow process, because in addition to mixing whole shell into the mix and get that clumpy shape, I'll be also cementing oyster shells to complete the look of the live reef. Those oyster shells that I'll be cementing on will be in two forms, to resemble closed live oysters and open dead oysters which will be used as caves for the blennies and gobies.

Eventually, also, I'd like to collect as much compatible bay life that I can for the DT and/or the fuge, including invertebrates and maybe macroalgae.

That's the plan. Hopefully, I'll have an update by the end of the week on my new sump stand!

[Chasmodes]

Oh yeah, one more long term plan is to include a shadowbox background so that the appearance of the oyster reef to the viewer seems to go out into the distance. But I won't do that until the tank has been up and running.

[Chasmodes]

Sump stand built...finally...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/SumpStand_zpsb852041a.jpg

[Chasmodes]

I've decided on an external return pump, sump drilled accordingly.

Update: DT stand cabinet doors are finished and need to be painted. Things are going slow since I'm busy at work and in my home life, my family is going through some things where they need my time. I want it done, but can't...frustrating.

Question: should I paint the sump stand? I'm thinking that I should...

[rgulrich]

I enjoy spending my time in the mud flats and oyster beds around Assateague and Chincoteague myself - you should have lots of interesting things in there by the time you're done. I have a few oysters, sponges, a couple types of algae, and of course a handful of grass shrimp in a spare twenty. Haven't been lucky enough to find a seahorse yet, but they're out there, too. I kind of like the model they have at the National Aquarium in Baltimore...it has the "real feel" to it.
Should be a neat project!

[Cutiewitbooty]

. following :)

[Chasmodes]

It's been a while since I've updated, but that isn't for lack of not wanting to. Funding for equipment is my issue. Hopefully, I'll be able to buy all that I need in the next few months (looks like it). The good thing is that even allowing for the tank to cycle after set up, it will be at least six months before I can really collect the specimens that I need for this tank to be a success (striped blennies).

In the meantime, I've been working on the stands and also building the oyster reef itself (the aquascaping). The problem with that is that I'm picky and want it to look perfect, not just scatter some oyster shells in there and hope it looks OK. I decided to make this fish only for now and after the tank cycles and fish introduced, maybe later collect other invertebrates to complete the tank. Some will be introduced along with the fish or maybe sooner toward the end of the cycle (hermit crabs, snails, etc.).

So, at the very least, I want this to simulate an oyster reef as much as possible. I have amassed oyster shells in several ways. Some of my larger ones came from a buddy of mine that camps along the Chesapeake Bay, that came from one of his favorite restaurants. I also bought some at Wegman's and shucked them myself (nasty), and saved the oyster meat (and also slipper shell critters) and froze them for food down the road for the fish. Those dried out and stunk up my basement for a while, maybe I missed a slipper or two :lolspin:. Anyway, my wife wasn't happy about that. But the shells from my buddy had been outside for a long time and were pretty dry.

So, my progress on building the reef has been meticulous and slow. But, it's coming along. Having oyster shells and my ongoing projects in the living room isn't making my family happy with me, but it's a great thing to do while watching TV (putting my reef together). It's like art, to me, in a way. My next posts will be a few pics of my oyster reef progress. But first, here is a picture of an oyster cultch, basically a sub-component of the oyster bar/reef that I'm trying to simulate:


That picture is from an oyster restoration site, Barnegat Bay Shellfish Home Page: http://barnegatshellfish.org/identify_wild_oysters.htm
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/oyster_cultch_lg_zps2fb5ac7c.png

A cultch is simply a bunch of oysters that have settled from their larval or spat stage onto other oysters, and over time forming the reef. Actually, they attach to many other shellfish too, and vice versa to form the reef.

The picture below is from another oyster restoration site and is the one that inspired my aquascaping quite a bit, how the oysters grow in a shallow environment: http://www.naplesgov.com/index.aspx?NID=357. It doesn't matter that it's in Naples, Florida because they're the same species of oyster, and the natural reefs along the bay grow in much the same way, a shallow water environment. I've studied this quite a bit since I began this project, and have learned quite a bit about oysters, oyster reefs, and the wide variety of marine and/or estuarine flora and fauna.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/OysterReef_Mangroves_zps6783d6cb.jpg

[Chasmodes]

So the first step in building the oyster reef (cultches), and to simulate it as accurately as possible is to match up oysters with matching halves. There are two ways to do this, the first is to shuck oysters, clean them out, and then glue them back together (saving the meat as future fish food). The second method is to gather oyster shells from restaurants and such (of course, with permission), and then go through them and match them up. It is a very tedious process, but can be done while watching TV. My family was somewhat annoyed by this because when you try and match them, the clacking sound is annoying, and it's not exactly a clean process. Oyster shells can be pretty dusty and dirty, not good for living room furniture :fun2:. I made sure to cover the furniture and sweep up after every work session on the reef.

But, before you can match them up, you have to separate the two types of shells (left or lower shells, and right or upper shells).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4401_zpsab087e67.jpg

In Paul S. Galtsoff's 1964 publication (The American oyster, Crassostrea virginica), he observed the following, "In C. virginica the left valve is almost always thicker and heavier than the right one. When oysters of this species are dumped from the deck of a boat and fall through water they come to rest on their left valves."

The left/lower shells most of the time tend to curve to the right when looking at the open side, while the right/upper shell curves to the left when viewing it open. But wait a minute...To make things more confusing, oysters don't always follow their own morphology rules. There are times when they don't curve at all, or now and then, you find some that curve the wrong way!

So, as I matched them up, I used big rubber bands to keep them together until I went back and glued them later.

Matching them up and keeping them together until time to glue:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4402_zpscc08f6b5.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4408_zps8cbd9eca.jpg

After going through a ton of shells, I matched up 37 oysters. I found a few later on too, not sure how I missed them. I added another 30 oysters that were perfect matches that I bought from Wegman's. I'm not going to show pictures of the shucked ones or that process...they're still a bit stinky :hmm3:

So the next steps are pretty basic, wet the halves and glue them together with Gorilla Glue. Now, this is the first time that I've used Gorilla Glue, and I've read and heard about how it expands, and let me tell you that even if you clamp it, it will expand, so use sparingly. I later learned that it's great for filling gaps, but the trick is to keep it from moving from that gap while it's wet.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4404_zpsf4347070.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4406_zpse6623d3e.jpg

[Chasmodes]

After you glue up a bunch of matched shells, use those rubber bands to bind them together. Gorilla Glue will stick a little bit on the rubber bands, but it usually comes right off. Here are a bunch of them bound, and then ready to make a cultch:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4409_zps83ec1569.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4410_zps73a28b75.jpg

Starting a cultch, gluing matched sets of shells together...I love when there are barnacles and remnants of other invertebrates on these shells, gives it a realistic look:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4411_zps90e2b2db.jpg

[Chasmodes]

But that isn't all. This is only the beginning. What about the little caves and crevices for the fish? The oyster reef as a reef will provide plenty of hiding places for all critters. But, if you want the fish to breed, they have preferences for their amorous activities. They breed in dead or broken oyster shells, as do some of the other species of oyster reefs.

So, back to matching oyster shells again. This time, I matched what I called "near matches" since I wouldn't be gluing them totally together. Basically, i wanted them to look like they'd match if they weren't together, but they didn't have to be exact. So, another night or two of clanking oyster shells to make my family annoyed was in order. The next step was to glue them together and create spawning habitat.

As it turns out, there was a study in 1982 bu Roy E. Crabtree and Douglas P. Middaugh, titled, "Oyster Shell Size and the Selection of Spawning Sites by Chasmodes bosquianus, Hypleurochilus geminatus, Hypsoblennius ionthas (Pisces, Blenniidae) and Gobiosoma bosci (Pisces, Gobiidae) in Two South Carolina Estuaries,", and in that study, they found that the widest preferred oyster shell gap that they found with eggs that the striped blenny preferred for the spawn was 11.9 mm. And, as it turns out, that is the same width as the end of the clothes pins that we had, and they were the perfect form for creating matched spawning oyster caves. Feather blennies also spawn in similar sized oyster shell gaps, so if I catch them, these would be just fine for their exploits.

For the naked gobies, the gap was 7.1 mm, about the measurement of the end of the plastic shims from Home Depot. And the clingfish will spawn in just about anything that they can defend from the others.

Gluing near matched halves together to make fish breeding habitat, using clothes pins as gap forms:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4429_zps2149ebbd.jpg

But, would the Gorilla Glue hold? Yes, it did:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4432_zps41ae7035.jpg

So, the past few days I've been drilling holes in oyster shells (man, they are tough), using zip ties, and Gorilla glue to make cultches. I also made frames for the three large sections of oyster reef to support my cultches, and also to be the forms for the MMLR. I used CPVC pipe to make slide on supports for the cultches, zip tied 1/2" CPVC as a pedestal, and the 3/4" CPVC to hold the oyster cultch base to slide over the pedestal. The reef frames were formed from PVC pipe, zip ties and egg crate. When they are finished, 2 sections of reef should be about 18" or so wide, and one smaller one.

Using clamps, zip ties, and rubber bands to form cultches:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4426_zps28c05767.jpg

One of the reef boxes/bases...these will have glued oyster shells on them, and filled with MMLR (after I finish the cultches):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4425_zpsd1dcdc3d.jpg

Building a cultch over the cultch base of CPVC pipe:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4435_zpsca893b7b.jpg

Coming along nicely... Starting to look like that first picture, eh? I already took one apart because it didn't look real enough. I hope I don't run out of oysters, but I have all winter, LOL!
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4439_zps9e386832.jpg

And this was as of last night...
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4441_zps26a8ea1e.jpg

The tedious part is waiting for the glue to dry and hold, so you can keep building. I imagine that there are faster ways of doing it, but I'm kind of learning as I go. And, in a way, I'm almost building the reef as if oysters are doing it...and it takes time. Plus, I want it to look perfect, like that second picture above on that mangrove oyster reef.

After I'm done building cultches, they will be set aside and the boxes will be filled with MMLR and kured/cured for use in the tank. A few months of water changes, and I'll be ready to reassemble the cultches in what I hope is a set up cycled tank. So, the problem that I have with live rock along the Bay is that there really isn't any, save for cinder blocks and such, and that's not very attractive. Most of the rock are clay boulders or marl, sandstone, or other metamorphic rocks (quartz, etc).

But, while the MMLR is kuring/curing, I'll be adding other shells to the cultches/reef...slipper shells, a few more barnacles here and there, and of course, some muscle and clam shells, all found locally. I won't have to worry about much time matching them, they're a heck of a lot easier than those variable oysters!

[Chasmodes]

Oh yeah, I will have a QT tank for the fish, and will acclimate them to full salt water. That way, I can add more local invertebrates from saltier sections of the bay, and the ones that I'm interested in will do just fine.

[BayouCityReefer]

freaking sweet. I got to keep up with this build. We have oyster reefs like this around Galveston.

[Chasmodes]

freaking sweet. I got to keep up with this build. We have oyster reefs like this around Galveston.

Thanks! I've been at this for a while, but now have the support of my wife and daughter to get it up and running. The fun part will be collecting the critters! Now, if I can keep them from getting mad at me until I'm done with building the reef! :worried2:

[Chasmodes]

I've been slowly but surely working on these. Below are my latest oyster cultches using the Gorilla Glue. I'm doing away with the egg crate boxes. But for now, they make great platforms and supports for building the oyster cultches. Instead, I'll have PVC frames to support the cultches imbedded directly in DIY live rock. I'm hoping to get to the DIY live rock this weekend.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4457_zps9dc496d9.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_4456_zps2cdc918f.jpg

I know that there is some spillage, but I'll wind up gluing on more oysters there anyway. Eventually, I'll have a full reef of these.

[rgulrich]

Lookin' good - keep up the good work (including the research)!
Ray

[Chasmodes]

Here's where I am today...I've been using the egg crate/pvc box as kind of a form as I create these cultches, but it won't go into the tank as you see it above. Rather My plan is to build a PVC skeleton (still to be made) to mount the cultches on, then embed that skeleton into a DIY base rock (still to be made). There will be two PVC skeletons because I don't want to make one massive DIY rock.

So what about the gaps between the cultches? After all, i want it to look like a complete reef. I will build a duplicate set of PVC skeletons that are equal in size and shape to the ones that will be embedded in the DIY rock. I will situate the cultches as I want them in the tank on the duplicate skeletons and continue to glue oysters to the existing clutches and fill in the gaps. Then, once the DIY rock curing has been completed and the pH is OK, then I will swap out the duplicate skeleton and replace it with the DIY rocks w/skeletons. If I can get the tank set up and cycled but the DIY rock isn't ready, then I will go with this until the DIY rock is done curing, then swap it out later.

This reef will take up more than one third of the tank on the right side, and I'll have a smaller reef (one large longer cultch) in the mid foreground on the left side of the tank. I will use the same process as above for the skeleton and DIY rock concept. When looking at the picture below, imagine the two rows of cultches with no gaps and no egg crate, but not quite as much vertical relief (maybe some day, but I don't have enough oysters right now).

I hope to have all my set up equipment purchased in the next month or so, and the tanks set up and plumbed shortly after that. I need to purchase lighting, pumps, powerheads, and an RO/DI unit. It's coming along. I still have some work to do with the stands, but am not worried about getting that done just yet...soon though.

Here's the latest...I'm really happy with the way this is turning out.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4542_zpse9202e0d.jpg

Sorry it's taking so long...time and money are my issues, both I hope to resolve soon.

[rgulrich]

Take your time and enjoy the build - you're going in the right direction.
Looks great.
Ray

[Breadman03]

Take your time and enjoy the build - you're going in the right direction.
Looks great.
Ray

I second that.

I lived in Lexington Park for a bit. There's some pretty country down there, with Point Lookout being a favorite of mine.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks everyone for your support.

So the reef build is coming along and I'm going to purchase my tank equipment this week. I will be ordering my RO/DI, a pump for my return from the sump, a couple power heads and lighting.

Here's the latest on the oyster reef aquascape below. I made the bases out of cpvc pip and will embed them in concrete DIY reef rock. I laid them out on the side of my stand to finish gluing the oysters on, so I can get a sense of how it will look in the tank, since the plywood is the same dimension as the base of the tank. The oysters stand 15" tall, and the water level in the tank will probably be about an inch or two above that. I'm excited how it's coming along, much like I envisioned. It really looks much better in person than in the pics. I can't wait to see what it looks like in the tank with water and sand.

This pic is a few days old, looking down to get an idea of what the scape might look like. The front of the tank is to the right. There are some gaps that I've later filled in shown in the last two pics.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4545_zps979140d8.jpg

This is looking from the front view:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4568_zps18add851.jpg


This is from the left side of the tank, looking down...just another angle. Lots of gaps filled in. The oysters laying out are the ones that I still have yet to glue on. The oysters will eventually be just about 3" off the bottom, just over the sand bed, at least that is the plan.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4569_zpsffcf50c0.jpg

[Chasmodes]

I second that.

I lived in Lexington Park for a bit. There's some pretty country down there, with Point Lookout being a favorite of mine.

That's pretty near the area that I hope to collect most of my critters from.

[rgulrich]

Very nice - keep on gluin'!

There are some nice sponge and sea squirts (and anemones, sea horses, blennies, shrimp, etc.) in those beds in the Bay as well - they might fill in some of the gaps nicely as you get this up and running. Looking forward to seeing some water in it, Kevin!

One thing you may want to check into with MD DNR is whether you'd need a "recreational fishing license" or some such if you pick up vertebrates such as a sea horse, blenny, or other fish. They can be sticklers as times. There's also a few "permit free" days throughout the year that you might be able to schedule around. Just a thought.

Cheers,
Ray

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Ray! Ultimately, that is exactly the type of invertebrate life that I want once the tank becomes established.

As far as the license goes, that's not a problem for me because I always have one. I'm an avid angler (fresh and saltwater), and I've consulted the regulations on collecting both for this and also I want to set up a stream tank with darters some day. It's interesting though, that as long as the species that you collect isn't protected, they aren't concerned so much with what non-game species you collect. Most of the regulations seem to be concerned with how you collect them (legal equipment, seine size, etc.) and when. Oysters have a season though, so that would be the only thing. I don't plan on keeping live oysters at this point, but I may add one if my tank conditions are right in a few years. As far as animals for this tank go, things don't seem problematic.

I can't wait either! :bounce1:

[Chasmodes]

I bought some Beckett's Pond Foam and will use that after the base rock is done to add the last lower layer of oysters directly to the base rock to fill in those bottom gaps. I could use the foam only now, but I need that biological filtration capability of the base rock. I need to hurry up this process though so I can get the stand finished ASAP because I'm in the process of choosing equipment. I'm kind of obsessing about this part, getting it right.

Here is my list so far:

Pumps:

Jebao DC 3000, max 800 gph at 3m head for my return pump. My head height is probably less than 2'.

Sicce Voyager 3 Stream, 1,200 gph for circulation. I may put this on a timer to simulate tidal movements...down the road.

RO/DI - looking at The Filter Guys Ocean Wave Five Stage 75 GPD. I'm on well water, so I'll need their well package and a booster pump, and a few other accessories.


Salifert test kits for Ammonia, Nitrate, Phosphate, Alkalinity, PH, and Copper (for my QT )

Plumbing parts, will hard plumb this system

Rain barrels for RO/DI storage

I am not going to start with a skimmer as of now, but may add one down the road (saving money for that just in case). One reason for that is that the fish will come frmo brackish water (on the saltier side, but not full seawater) and I'm not sure that skimmers would perform if I keep the tank at the same salinity as I collect. If I start having problems, then I'll acclimate the fish slowly to full seawater and then add the skimmer.

Lighting: Currently thinking about the Current USA Orbit Marine LED Saltwater Reef Lighting System. I will supplement with another lighting fixture too so I get full tank coverage if this one doesn't do it. What I want most is for the fish colors to be at their best, but this should cause macro algae to grow, I hope. This is where I need some advice, on what best to use for this? I like the idea of LEDs being more energy efficient, but was also thinking about a T5 fixture. Also, I kind of like the shimmering of LEDs. Since these fish live shallow in the wild, I think that would be a realistic feature of my tank.

Cost is a factor too for this equipment, so I don't need top of the line best reefing stuff since I'm not growing corals. I need good functionality and best bang for the buck.

What do you all think about my choices? What do you all suggest or recommendations if they aren't adequate? Any reviews of the above equipment would be appreciated.

I will start ordering equipment over the next couple days.

[rgulrich]

Kevin, for bright, shallow water simulation you might want to consider two banks of daylight/6500K t5s/ 2 or 4 bulbs each (depending on just how bright you want it) - and leaving a bit of space in the middle. A couple horticultural fixtures should work pretty well here. I'm using a 4 foot 6 bulb t5HO horticultural fixture on my 2 X 4 frag system, and it really packs a heck of a PAR punch, so you can, if you're not careful, over do the light with these, depending on mounting height and water depth.

Then supplement with a couple daylight LED spots to provide shimmer, either in the middle, the front, or both. Something as simple as a few of the daylight halogen replacements might work pretty well for this. Something like the MR16 LEDs from Homedepot might work pretty well (I've used these in the living room track lighting as halogen replacements and in the kitchen as task lighting - they pack a punch):
http://www.homedepot.com/s/mr16%2520led?NCNI-5
I'd try a 3000K and 5000K to see which works better for your application. That would bathe the bed with light and still provide a great simulation of daylight glitter lines. And you will be able to grow a substantial amount of algae with these as well while keeping the cost moderate to low.

Take a little time, draw things out, visit Home Depot or Lowes, re-draw things out (it might be worth a trip or two by the time things are said and done), and then try out a few of your more favorable options. And enjoy working on it!

You're doing a super job, man, and while we're all eager to get things done yesterday quite often, sometimes its much more fun to take a bit of time and make sure things fit before we fill them with water.

Cheers,
Ray (who, after shoveling the driveway while my significant other plowed the main drive and neighbors' with the tractor, is dreaming of snorkeling over a warm, sunny, reef...)

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Ray!

I would like to simulate the solar/lunar cycle also...I guess I can do that with cheap timers and cheap blue LEDs too. That would save a ton of money compared to an expensive fixture/controller. I don't think the fish care much about fading light at the beginning and end of the day.

Where did you get your horticultural T5 fixtures?

I still need to shovel out my 100' driveway...ugh. :(

[Chasmodes]

I guess something like these?

http://www.homedepot.com/p/Lithonia-Lighting-2-Light-28-Watt-White-Fluorescent-Grow-Light-GRW-2-14-CSW-CO-M4/202745704?N=5yc1vZc9h4

http://www.amazon.com/Apollo-Horticulture-Commercial-Fixture-Choice/dp/B00HDY26D0/ref=sr_1_3?s=lawn-garden&ie=UTF8&qid=1424190789&sr=1-3&keywords=EnviroGro+t5+Fixture

I like the looks of the second one the best, better reviews too.

[rgulrich]

I've got the second one's bigger brother - the 6 bulb 4 footer.
Same place, too!

[reefzombie]

Really cool idea. I always wanted to do a cold water system like that

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Ray! I guess I'll give them a try, much more coverage of my tank if I buy two, and more than half the cost. Did you build a canopy or hang them?

Thanks Zombie!

On a related note, about lighting, years ago I experimented with my old fashioned fluoro light fixture, and made a mount that extended it outside the tank shining in, and man did the colors of my fish, mainly blue, really pop (the little blue spots on a flame angel, for example). If I just set the fixture on the tank, then it wasn't bad, but not nearly as cool. The only problem with what I did was algae grew on the front glass faster and I had to clean it more often.

I was wondering about setting the front light and angling it slightly to the center of the tank, just a few degrees, not much, and let the other lights shine straight down. I guess I really don't care about the cosmetics of the hanging light that much, but really would like to see those colors jump out.

Another thing that I could do is mount them hanging and shining straight down, and mount some sort of lighting fixture that I could turn on only when I view them that shines from the top/front of the tank in.

The striped and feather blenny males have a really bright blue spot on their dorsal fin, along with some other orange highlights. If they ever get frisky, I'd like to enjoy those colors!

Anyone ever do anything like that?

[rgulrich]

Hey Kevin,
I am currently hanging the fixture, not using a canopy.

For hanging the lights on multiple angles, and possibly supporting other lights you might take a look at using http://eztube.com/ to build a custom light frame. A little drawing, a few experiments, and you should have something that meets your needs for either a frame that sits on your aquarium or one you could suspend that would hold the lights quite handily and still allow for adjustment.

Cheers,
Ray

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Ray, that's really cool. I think that I might go with that...gave me an idea also. I could have a frame made for a canopy, or just hang them from a frame like this, supported from the back of the tank bolted to my stand, and also, have a frame incorporated to support my shadowbox background idea. I like this concept either way rather than hanging lights from the ceiling.

I've struggled with ideas on the lights and the approach to the shadowbox, and how to get this looking good. I might as well incorporate both in the design. I like the idea of not having the lights sit close to the tank so I can look down or gain access for maintenance, etc.

Or, use this for each project and keep them separate. I'd likely do that because the lighting is far more important to get going.

Another issue that I'm concerned about is how to build an overflow for this. My thought right now is to install an H2Overflow. The tank has bracing all the way around on all 4 sides. I could add a C2C/Herbie, but accessing once it's in place would be tough. I wonder if the integrity of the tank would be compromised by cutting access holes or not. The bracing is pretty wide. Cosmetically, the H2Overflow would hide the plumbing better, and make the shadowbox concept work. If I install a C2C overflow, and to use the shadowbox, I'd have to do that on one of the sides (probably right side), but then I'd lose a viewing plane with unsightly pipes.

I also took a look at the ghost overflow which might solve my problem if I go C2C.

My brain hurts. :headwalls:

[Chasmodes]

I meant to show a pic of the tank again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/OysterReefTank.jpg

What would you do for an overflow? The tank is 18" tall (17" inner measurement), so it's a shallow environment. I'd like the water level to be about an inch or inch and a half below the top of the tank if possible.

[whiteshark]

Beautiful dimensions on that tank.

[rgulrich]

Hey Kevin,
You might consider the C2C or somesuch, but external - keeping the plumbing to the corners as much as possible to minimize their visual impact. That said...(drum roll)....

I'd be almost tempted to do an internal Herbie with the intake and emergency both integrated into your oyster reef structure, preferably at two different areas of the aquarium. The return could be over the top in a corner, or again, integrated into your aquascape (a bit tougher). Remember - you will need to access this plumbing in case of an emergency or blockage or somesuch, so you don't want to tuck it back in a corner somewhere under the Euro-bracing. You also need to provide support to the entire bottom of your acrylic aquarium, so you'd have to be very judicious in your use of a hole cutter (to fit bulkheads and tighten/loosen them) in the wood supporting the bottom.

Sit down, preferably with a cold beverage of your choice and a pad of paper and pencil, and do some sketches. You know what you want to see and support in your aquarium, now "all" you have to do is develop the means to support it in an aesthetically pleasing manner. Be sure to review the sketches in a day or two to make sure you didn't leave anything out.

You're doing all of this already, so I don't think you'll have too many problems getting there from here, man.

[ecksreef]

Center overflow could be cool

[Chasmodes]

Yeah, I've been racking my little brain over what to do about this...part of me wants to keep it simple and hidden but also have easy access.

I considered a center overflow and haven't ruled it out. The sump is not much lower than the tank, less than a foot, so plumbing through the tank floor would mean that I'd have to scrap my sump stand and build a lower floor stand, or set it on bricks or something. Plus, the sump will be plumped through the wall into my basement.

Thanks much for the ideas guys, I really really appreciate the input.

[Chasmodes]

OK, I've glued all of my oyster matched halves to the structure. I think it looks great so far, just like I imagined it would. One of the issues with Gorilla glue is that it runs, so I will use my longnose pliers and any other tools that I can to clean excess glue off the oysters. In some places, I don't care if it's there, and maybe I don't need to do anything because eventually, algae and stuff will grow over it. But, I'm picky and I want it as perfect as I can. There is stuff to do still, but 99% of the gluing is over. Here is what it would look like from my view sitting in front of the tank (the picture size is about the tank size, if you can imagine that):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4583_zpsa144e294.jpg

The remaining steps to complete these structures are:

1) create the base rock (DIY live rock) which will cover the PVC pipe (it won't stick out beyond the oyster cultches though, just enough to fill in the space and hide the PVC.

2) use Beckett's Pond Foam and more oyster halves to finish the oyster reef down to the sand bed, to cover the base rock and blend with the existing cultches. Those are the areas inside the green lines.

3) where the yellow area is, do one final cultch that won't connect to the others and will be free standing on its own frame, no DIY rock in it, just PVC and oysters. I'm toying with the idea of making a rock that looks like the ones that drop off Calvert Cliffs and embed shark teeth in it. That would give it that nice Chesapeake Bay feel. I may do both.

I think that I need about 40-50 more oyster matches to finish this right, and fill in gaps with unmatched halves.

To totally complete the aquascape, I will add some oyster cultches to hide equipment, etc. The area between the oysters will be a sand bed. I want room so that if I can catch a hogchoker, it will have room to bury in the sand and hang out. Here is a picture of the plan detailed above:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4583plan_zps7c45b041.jpg

In the mean time, it's time to order equipment. When that stuff starts showing up at my door, then it will begin to feel like it's moving from my dream to reality.

Thanks for following along, and you comments too. Much appreciated! :p

[GPB]

The National Aquarium in Baltimore has a tank very similar to the one you are working on. I bet they would be more than happy to talk with you about the parameters they keep theirs at. The Bay has a severe nutrient problem . My guess is Phosphates are very bad in the Bay. My understanding is that the water in the Bay used to be almost crystal clear due to the filering done by the billions of oysters present. It would have been something really cool to see.

Please post some pics when you are done. re you going to get a little blue crab, or some killifishes? Maybe a Small Spot?

[Chasmodes]

Thanks GBP! I really want to get up there and see that tank. When I do, I'll try and find someone to talk to it about. If not, I'll write them. I have seen some stuff on the web about it.

My inspiration came from the tank that they have at the Calvert Marine Museum.

I don't want to keep any blue crabs simply because they get too big and will eat the fish that I prefer. As far as a stocking list goes, this is what I had in mind:

Fish

Must haves:
several Striped Blennies
several Naked Gobies
1 Hogchoker
Killifish (some, but not many, maybe a few of each species)
several Skilletfish

Maybe (if I can catch them, or if they survive)
Silversides
Bay Anchovies
Feather Blenny
Seahorses (won't collect until the tank is established, and will go in my fuge)
Pipefish (won't collect until the tank is established, and will go in my fuge, plus might only do one, they typically don't do well, so I may not keep any)
Sticklebacks - if I can find them
compatible Exotics that I catch, if I can find them (like a Spotfin Butterfly)
maybe small spot...or two.

Inverts

Must Haves:
Snails
Limpets or slippers (if I can find them)
a few hermit crabs
maybe a decorator crab

Maybe
Red Beard Sponge (once tank is established)
Anemones
Gorgonians (if I go full salt)
A few Sea Squirts (once tank is established)
one or two Oysters or other bivalves (once tank is established, but probably not)

Plants
Ulva
Maybe some red macros

I may try several that I collect and see what survives.

[Chasmodes]

I just finished making 2 of the 3 DIY rock bases for the oyster cultches. I think the first one might be a bit dry, and the 2nd one a bit wet, LOL. We'll see. They're sitting in damp sand covered and I won't look for 48 hours. After that, if they're OK, then I'll begin the soaking/water changes for 4-8 weeks. After the 48 hours are up, I'll attempt the third one if the other two turn out OK. If they don't, then I'll smash them up and do it again :headwally::hmm4::spin3:

I have plenty of materials to work with at least.

My recipe was 2 parts crushed oyster shell, 2 parts sand, and one part portland cement, and a little water. The first batch was dry oat meal, the second was a little runny.

Why not do the third now? Because my molding/sand container is full with the other two, so I can wait.

My wife thinks that I'm a nut.

I need more oysters, but we're getting hammered with snow today. If it melts by mid week, I may try to see if I can get some from our local seafood restaurant. They have AYCE crab legs, so I may have to partake :spin2:

[rgulrich]

I can second you on the snow, Kevin...spent 3 hours plowing our lane, drive, and the neighbors' drives this afternoon...and it's still coming down hard up here in Marriottsville. Sigh.

I think you'll have a pretty fair sized collection in there with your list so far. You might want to keep a close eye on adult size across the board to make sure nobody gets out of hand (and decides the tankmates are on the dinner menu). Looking forward to seeing your next steps, man!

Cheers,
Ray (who broke out the cross country skis to go up the drive - after it was plowed this afternoon already - to get the mail)

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Ray. I'm pretty sure the livestock list is OK. My biggest concern would be aggression of the blennies, especially H. hentz, they can get tough and very territorial. C. bosquianus are a bit more tolerable.

I don't plan on keeping them all. My vision is really a few of the gobies, about four to six striped blennies, and a few skilletfish, and some inverts. If I'm lucky enough to catch a butterflyfish, it will go in. I may or may not add the killies, but should have something to cruise the water column. Of course, I'd be adding livestock very slow, maybe starting with a couple skilletfish and killies after cycling. That said, a hogchoker will be cool. It all depends on what I catch first!

I also have a few 55 gallon tanks that I can set up if I need to that aren't being used, and a 75 gallon on the way that I want to make a stream/darter tank with.

Anyway, Marriotsville, huh? I've spent many a day wading the Patapsco for smallmouth bass over the years in that area. My last trip was the summer before last and it still was fun.

I'm just about 15 min South of Frederick. I haven't started shoveling yet. My day tomorrow will be spent doing that!

[rgulrich]

At least I didn't spot a Northern Stargazer on the list...heh! Although, I have to admit, it sure would be interesting as all heck to have one in a species tank...
I remember wading through the mud flats on the backside of Ocean Isle N. Carolina as a kid at low tide, picking up an old boot sitting drying in the mud and dumping it into a bucket. Out flops an Oyster Toadfish/Opsanus tau just about the same size as the boot. That one was pretty neat, too. If I didn't have a big reef of pretty, flashy fish, I'd probably have a kiddie wading pool of a mud flat with fiddler crabs and these, among other things....you're having fun with this, I can tell!

We actually went tubing down the Patapsco a few times this past summer - harassing the fish and the watersnakes. Of course, there were the few portage requirements, but it was fun nonetheless. I live within hiking distance of the State Park, and made the trip many times to hike down and then along the river with a backpack lunch. Great area.

Enjoy the shoveling tomorrow - it might just be slush by then, but we'll probably be out in it as well with the old Kabota to clear the lane before it freezes over.

[Scubareefman]

I grew up around the Chesapeake. I miss it all the time. If I lived close enuff I would build a brackish tank also. I'm following and day dreaming about the tank I could have :). Cheers

[Chasmodes]

Ray: LOL, I've never seen a stargazer, but they are neat fish. I have caught toadfish, ugly but cool and efficient predators. Unfortunately, they eat anything that will fit in that gaping ugly mouth, and won't get near my blennies! It's funny that it was in a boot. You can bet that I'll be checking bottles and stuff like that for clingfish, blennies and gobies!

I'm sure that when I finally get the tank cycled and go collecting, I will be just like a kid out there! I am still sore from shoveling snow, and lost a day of working on my tank because of it :headwalls:

Scuba, thanks! Hopefully when this is done it's worth the wait. When it's stocked, I'll post videos and pics for sure.

Update:

48 hours passed and I pulled my DIY rock with the PVC frames out for a look. As of now, they're sitting on the side of my stand until I get home from work, and then I'll soak them for 6-8 weeks. Man, they are heavy, like a concrete block (duh) :hmm4: I have one more to make. I made the first two without salt, so I think that I'll try using salt this time in the mix to make the rocks a little lighter. If I like how those turn out, then I'll make new frames and redo the other ones.

Overall, I'm happy with how they turned out. The weight issue is probably no big deal since folks put hundreds of pounds of rocks in their tanks and sumps. Most people making DIY rock don't pat it down like I did so they get that texture. For me, it doesn't matter because most of what you see on the bases will be covered by oysters/foam. This way, I get the shape that I want. I was going to create a mold, but as it turns out that wasn't necessary.

After soaking them, the next step will be to use the pond foam to attach oysters around the base to fill in those gaps and make the oyster reef complete to the sand bed (which will be 2-3").

Showing the new bases:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4587_zps0a858f7f.jpg

One thing that I liked was the flat bottom, no chance of my reef collapsing. I may put egg crate under them to evenly distribute the weight. What do y'all think?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_4586_zps93d2337a.jpg

[rgulrich]

Eggcrate or HDPE cutting board material would be good. I've seen concrete pavers used as reef foundations without either, though, and there really isn't an issue as long as it's stable/doesn't rock back and forth.

Lookin' great-good work, Kevin!

Cheers,
Ray

[Genera]

Any updates?

[DrBoxedWine]

Following. Cool idea!!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for your interest. I'm sorry that this build has been incredibly slow.

My project stalled for a bit, been busy with other things and no free time...but...went to the beach a couple weeks ago and picked up a bunch of good oyster shells. I'm drying them out now outside (they still stink a bit). Once they're tolerable enough to bring inside, then I'll finish the aquascaping. I have enough oysters that I may make the entire third base out of oysters rather than DIY rock simply because I have enough, and it will make for a ton of cool hiding places.

I have a buddy that wants to help with my stand. We are going to hook up and finish that as soon as he can shake free for a weekend. His daughter plays travel softball, so free time is limited. He's really good at cabinetry, so I'm going to let him take over. I messed up cutting the laminate and only have one more sheet left and don't want to waste with with my lack of skills. I could do it, I think, but, lack confidence. I'd rather get it right along with everything else and not waste money that I can put into the equipment.

My goal is still to have this tank up and cycled before the end of the summer so I can still collect and have fish in it by then.

I also have been distracted by something else aquarium related...a FW native stream tank and have been putting time into that. I'm building a DIY foam fake rock river ledge (combined with some real rock). This is going to be a true biotope tank from a stream near me. Fantail and rainbow darters and satinfin shiners will be the featured fish, but just about anything that won't prey on the others will be in there that I can catch.

I bet y'all aren't surprised at my interest in darters, given that I'm a blenny fanatic!

[rgulrich]

Nothing to be sorry about, Kevin! This is a hobby, man - enjoy it!

Ray

[Chasmodes]

I promised some pictures, and although this isn't much of an update, and I'm really dejected by how slow this project is going, I am making headway at least on the aquascaping part. Here are a few pictures:

The first 2 pictures show the oysters (fully matched and glued) that are ready for me to glue to the reef. I will make several smaller cultches to eliminate gaps in the reef between the cultches. I will also allow for some caves and tunnels between the cultches. I've eliminated the cement blocks. My thinking is that there will be enough surface area for biological filtration in the tank, and if I use "live rock", it will be in the sump. Matching the oysters and then gluing them was a very long process that started late last summer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7167_zpspnop0jlb.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7168_zpsmxas1xah.jpg

The next few pictures show the reef as it is today. You an see that I've already created a few smaller cultches that bridge the larger ones together. The measuring tape shows the height of the tank at 18", and the plywood base that the oyster reef is sitting on has the 36"Lx 36"W dimensions (it is actually the side of the tank stand that I'm using as a work platform). The tank is about 101 gallons or so.

This first picture is from the front view of the reef:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7164_zpsy0awwmev.jpg

This is a closer view of the right side of the reef, the main reef. I plan to add oysters to make this about 6" taller toward the back of the tank when done.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7165_zpsfebagzk7.jpg

The same view, but showing the left side too for perspective.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7166_zpsbtpcr92l.jpg

I still wish to have this tank set up and running this summer, that is the goal. It all depends on financing (how much money we have left after our family vacation for equipment that I need).

[Chasmodes]

If I can glue 10 oysters a day, I should be done with the aquascaping in a few weeks. I probably have at least 100-150 oysters that are ready to add to the reef. After the oysters, I will add some muscles and clams to the reef too that I've been gathering.

Each oyster once glued takes about 2 hours for the glue to set, and about five more before it is really sturdy. The hard part is positioning them the way that you want while also having a realistic fit to the reef. So it takes a fail amount of time. I'm not just slapping them together. My dream is to have this as realistic as possible once done.

Will the fish really care? Probably not. But, they'll feel right at home when I'm done. Where it really matters is when I look into this tank, I see my cut of the Chesapeake Bay.

[Grayhead]

I put live oysters in my fuge before. The pods cleaned the shells white as can be. They lived for a month or so in my tank. Did nothing special for them. We eat oyster often in season, so I always find barnacles and small oysters to add to my fuge.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Grayhead for the input. Once my tank is well established, I may try to keep some inverts, maybe a bit sooner in the fuge (shrimp). Whatever I do with regard to adding invertebrates will be slow and down the road. Ultimately, I would like this tank to be as realistic as possible.

[happyhourhero]

Cool thread! I live in Pensacola, FL on the Gulf of Mexico and I like to keep local blennys in my reef. I currently have a Parablennius marmoreus that just devours aiptasia and hydroids. He eats on my mini maxi too but never enough to cause enough damage to matter.

Had a Chasmodes saburrae for about 6 months but a crab got her. That was a cool fish too.

[Chrisrush]

That is a beautiful and unique aquascape. Well done so far.

[ljosh]

Following along. Looking forward to seeing this underwater.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Zack.

I checked out your tank thread, beautiful tank! I couldn't find your blenny in there, but I didn't have a lot of time to check closely. Do you have any pics of your seaweed blenny?

Sorry to hear about your Florida blenny, bummer. I saw your pics of it, cool fish. They are very closely related to the striped blenny (C. bosquianus).

Question about those blennies, did you catch them in total salt water or brackish environments?

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Chris and Josh.

Following along. Looking forward to seeing this underwater.

You and me both! I had a talk with my wife last night, and she is on board with my goal of getting this done soon. It all depends on $ :facepalm:

[happyhourhero]

Thanks Zack.

I checked out your tank thread, beautiful tank! I couldn't find your blenny in there, but I didn't have a lot of time to check closely. Do you have any pics of your seaweed blenny?

Sorry to hear about your Florida blenny, bummer. I saw your pics of it, cool fish. They are very closely related to the striped blenny (C. bosquianus).

Question about those blennies, did you catch them in total salt water or brackish environments?

My wife actually cried when Jane died. I will try and get pics of Charlie the seaweed blenny. He is one of those that poses and then right when you are about to snap the pic he darts off. He is pretty much all black but will display a tan pattern at times. I also have a frillfin goby (Bathygobius soporator) that came from the same area. I named him hulk. He was smaller than my pinky when I caught him and now is about 4" long. Last time I added a peppermint shrimp he ate it within seconds.

An interesting observation about these local fish is they have started using the skunk cleaner shrimp's services. There are no cleaner shrimp species that I know of around here and I go collecting a lot. Both fish let the cleaner absolutely go to town on them. Mouth, gills, underside, etc.

I have not tested the SG at the collection site but I would imagine it is fairly close to NSW. I collect near the bridge that connects Gulf Breeze with Pensacola Beach on the attached map. The inlet from the gulf is close by and the freshwater source is over 20 miles away.
http://i.imgur.com/EeRYaKg.png

[Chasmodes]

Very cool stuff Zack! How much have you kept that you've collected?

[Chasmodes]

Coming Along...

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_7173_zpsf0vb5wlq.jpg

[Breadman03]

Looking good!

[Chasmodes]

I've made some more progress, adding about 50 more oysters and nearing the max height (the tape behind the right side reef is the tank height). I still have some gaps, plus working on the base area around the rear of the left reef, and about 100 more oysters to place and glue. Tedious!

I think I want to move the left reef more toward the foreground in the actual tank than these pics.

From the front/side looking to the reef:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7418_zpsnscjm6xb.jpg

If you sit in front of the tank (using imagination, of course):
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7417_zps30wacslv.jpg

I'm getting really excited about this. As soon as I'm doing creating this aquascape, I'll finish the stand. All I need now is money for the equipment...

[happyhourhero]

Tank is coming along nicely! I added a Molly Miller that I caught a few days ago. She is finally done with the hiding phase.
http://i.imgur.com/dTdgmBf.jpg

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Zack.

I had a molly miller years ago and really loved that fish. Tons of personality. Did you catch it yourself? I'm jealous :)

[E.litvin]

Following along, very creative. Coming along great too by the way

[happyhourhero]

Got a Hypsoblennius invemar this weekend! So stoked! Been wanting one forever. I gave a guy some free frags and by chance he is a diver and I mentioned that they are out there and that if he ever finds them, I would love one. He actually found them and got me one and he took one. It has been hiding behind my overflow for a couple of days but I saw it out on the rocks last night so hopefully it comes out soon for good.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks E.Litvin! More updates to come. I'm down to 78 oysters left to glue, will be done sooner than I had hoped, I think. I would have glued more the past couple days but I ran out of Gorilla Glue. Got more yesterday, so hope to get on track again. More pics to come after I finish the section that I'm working on. I am so fired up about this tank again.

Got a Hypsoblennius invemar this weekend! So stoked! Been wanting one forever. I gave a guy some free frags and by chance he is a diver and I mentioned that they are out there and that if he ever finds them, I would love one. He actually found them and got me one and he took one. It has been hiding behind my overflow for a couple of days but I saw it out on the rocks last night so hopefully it comes out soon for good.

Wow, those are so beautiful! Now I'm really jealous :bounce2: :lolspin: How is he getting along with the molly miller?

[happyhourhero]

Wow, those are so beautiful! Now I'm really jealous :bounce2: :lolspin: How is he getting along with the molly miller?


Cant say as last night was the first time id seen it anywhere besides behind the overflow box. The molly and the seaweed tolerate eachother so i cam hoping it will be the same for this one...

[OrQidz]

Really cool idea! Those oyster shells look so neat.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks OrQids!

Update: in the pic below, the oysters laying flat on the table are the ones left to glue. I'm down to 52, I think, at last count. In the first picture, the gap between the back part of the left reef and front reef will be connected (actually, there are 3 separate cultches (or modules, if you will). I bought a new bottle of glue and did a lot of work last night. I'm really happy with how it's turning out.!

Left side (sorry, pic a little blurry, I must have moved)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7425_zpsqfy2p0fd.jpg

Front, from above:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7426_zpschajhjva.jpg

From the front:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7427_zpsmqqdyf8j.jpg

I really like the half arch coming out from the right side. More work to be done tonight. :dance:

[Chasmodes]

For comparison, a pic from earlier in the thread, a picture that really inspired me:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/OysterReef_Mangroves_zps6783d6cb.jpg

[happyhourhero]

looking good!

[OllieNZ]

Can't wait to see this in the tank :)

[Chasmodes]

Finally finished the oyster reef, all of the oysters are glued into cultches that fit together.

Front, from above:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_7428_zpsulveyju5.jpg

Front, tank bottom level:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_7429_zpsqfefswbp.jpg

Left side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_7430_zpslxnwg9m8.jpg

Right side:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/IMG_7431_zpsh4m0g8vv.jpg

Here's a video, trying to show depth and perspective that photos can't seem to capture. I tried to keep the aquascaping rule of thirds in mind when doing this. I'm really excited about how it turned out, better than I imagined when this all started.
https://youtu.be/I0d8HfyIGMg

Next up, finish the stand.

[Breadman03]

That's going to look great!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Breadman!

I wanted to embed the video, so I'm trying again:

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/I0d8HfyIGMg" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[Chasmodes]

Got a Hypsoblennius invemar this weekend! So stoked! Been wanting one forever. I gave a guy some free frags and by chance he is a diver and I mentioned that they are out there and that if he ever finds them, I would love one. He actually found them and got me one and he took one. It has been hiding behind my overflow for a couple of days but I saw it out on the rocks last night so hopefully it comes out soon for good.

Hey Zack, how is your Hypsoblennius invemar doing? Are all of your blennies getting along? Any pics?

Regarding my tank, no further progress since I finished the oyster reef cultches. Money is the issue. Right now, the stand makes for a great workbench for assembling my 75g stream tank DIY 3D background. I've made quite a bit of progress on that, for another thread in another forum :fun4:

After I'm done with that, I'll complete the stand. I've purchased everything that I need, so all I need to do is the assembly, painting, and finishing of the stand and cabinet doors. I also need to build the face frame for my cabinet drawers.

[happyhourhero]

Cool, cool. In my frag tank I have a seaweed or eyelash and a tesselated. In my main tank I have a seaweed, 2 Molly Millers and 2 Tesselated.

They all seem to get along well but i have not been able to find the tesselated in my main tank. They are super shy.

[JZinCO]

Chas, just letting you know your build has inspired me. I am planning a 30g, 2nd display tank for macroalgae and seagrasses. I have tediously spent time pairing and gluing mussel shells (with varying degrees of mouth openness). I have read in the literature, snails like to lay eggs inside dead bivalves, plus maybe my (eventual) barnacle blennies may like them.
Or they may just create the perfect habitat for hair algae ;)

On that note, I've also got a bunch of old barnacles.

Both the barnacles and mussels will decorate the back wall I will put together.

Anyway, can't wait to see more progress from you.

[Chasmodes]

Chas, just letting you know your build has inspired me. I am planning a 30g, 2nd display tank for macroalgae and seagrasses. I have tediously spent time pairing and gluing mussel shells (with varying degrees of mouth openness). I have read in the literature, snails like to lay eggs inside dead bivalves, plus maybe my (eventual) barnacle blennies may like them.
Or they may just create the perfect habitat for hair algae ;)

On that note, I've also got a bunch of old barnacles.

Both the barnacles and mussels will decorate the back wall I will put together.

Anyway, can't wait to see more progress from you.

Wow, thank you for the compliment! I can't wait to see your tank as well. Do you have a build thread? I like the idea of a barnacle and muscle wall. It is tedious to match and glue shells like that, more effort than I imagined when I started out. But, now that I'm done, I kind of miss it. I view it as art work. All I have to do is make it living art work!

Not much new on this build except I painted the doors to my stand. I have to build a face frame and install them still. I'm still using my stand as a work bench for my other tank build. I guess I should stop being lazy and clear off the work bench that I have that is designed for that purpose :crazy1: Also, lack of money still plagues me. My well pump is going bad, so fixing that has to come before my tank purchases. Still, I'm hopeful. I've been dragging this out way too long.

[Michael Hoaster]

I hear you on the money thing. I think that's why there's so much DIY these days.

I am patiently waiting for you to get this great idea going! You have dragged it out a bit. Like I should talk…

[jewlz]

What an involved build! I cant wait to see it all together with water in it.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks guys.

Yeah Michael, the financial crisis of 2008 hurt me pretty bad along with my daughter's school loans... ugh... :headwalls:

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, that was rough. I took a warehouse job just to get by. That was also when I bailed on reef keeping and converted my tank to fresh water planted. On the bright side, I finally learned enough to be successful with plants. Combining what I learned from both sides was huge for me.

Keep chugging along! Do what you can, and keep us informed! There's a lot you can do for free, like research, design and decisions on things like overflows, etc.

[Chasmodes]

There's a lot you can do for free, like research, design and decisions on things like overflows, etc.

Been doing a lot of that! I still haven't decided on the overflow yet. I don't want a center overflow, and the sump will be in the next room on the other side of the wall. At least, that's the plan for now. The stand is not much lower than the tank, so head height will be less than a foot probably. But, I could scrap the sump stand and put the sump on the floor or under my tank. All up in the air.

Here is the tank... what would you do for an overflow if you used a sump? (question for anyone too)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/OysterReefTank.jpg

I may not use a sump at all for this tank. Not sure yet. I won't be using a skimmer, so if I used the sump, then it would be for extra water volume, a place to do water changes and such, and a fuge.

Here is the sump:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/OysterReefSump.jpg

[Michael Hoaster]

I'd do it coast to coast on the side that will be the back. Beautiful tank and sump!

[JZinCO]

Wow, thank you for the compliment! I can't wait to see your tank as well. Do you have a build thread? I like the idea of a barnacle and muscle wall. It is tedious to match and glue shells like that, more effort than I imagined when I started out. But, now that I'm done, I kind of miss it. I view it as art work. All I have to do is make it living art work!


No build thread yet. That tank is coming after I get my 30g tank inhabitants transferred to a 50g reef, which has been beset by setbacks. Hopefully in a month I will have a build thread up in the macro/aquatic plants section.
Gluing and matching the oyster shells is tedious but easy to do while watching a football game. If anything it makes me appreciate each individual mussel more and, if it all turns out, give me some self-satisfaction. Plus I got to eat some of the mussels :cool:

[Chasmodes]

I'd do it coast to coast on the side that will be the back. Beautiful tank and sump!

Ultimately, I still want to eventually construct a shadowbox background, so I don't want any equipment showing. Maybe I'll install a C2C on the side and hide it with oysters and muscles. I also like the low profile of the H2Overflow, but there isn't a lot of feedback out there for those that have them.

JZ, I know all about setbacks! Good luck and stop back and let me know when you start the build. The oyster matching and gluing is a bit therapeutic :hmm3:

[happyhourhero]

Hey,


Not to derail your thread but what do you think this one is? It came in with my tesselated a week ago.

http://i.imgur.com/joE2lfm.jpg

http://i.imgur.com/avfRc2g.jpg

[Chasmodes]

Hey Zack, any post about blennies is cool so go for it ;)

I think that it looks like a juvenile seaweed blennie. Does it have any light blue lines on the face? Maybe those appear when they age? I don't know. I searched fishbase and there are some pictures that look similar, but your fish lacks the blue lines (right now) and the spot on the dorsal fin in your pictures. Can you see a spot when your fish raises the dorsal completely? There are several color variants of this species. This website has a few examples:

https://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/discover/species-profiles/parablennius-marmoreus/

Whatever your fish is, it's cool as heck and a great find!

[Chasmodes]

Since at the moment, funding is limiting my progress, I've been doing some research and I think that I may move eventually toward a complete living oyster reef (but with only a couple oysters), but it will be a very slow process achieving that. I want to start off when I cycle the tank using macro algae and then add some grass as the tank cycles. I'll use live sand that I'll collect too. I want only bay critters in there. I think that eel grass is out of the question, because I don't think I'm allowed to collect it here and I can't find any on-line. But, there are two native grasses for mid-bay salinity that I can purchase on-line, shoal grass and widgeon grass. I think that starting with a natural approach with the substrate and plants will be a great start for inverts to survive in my tank, and I think that the fish will flourish.

As far as macros go, there are several red and green species that I can collect locally. Any life that hitchhikes on the macros would be welcome in the tank. After cycling, I'll also add some hermit crabs and snails, perhaps an anemone or two. I know that they'll eat some macros, so I probably will have to constantly add macros to the tank and sump. I'll run it fallow for a few months before adding any fish so as to limit or prevent parasitism on the fish, along with quarantining the fish.

After the fallow period, I'll begin adding the hardier fish like the blennies, gobies, skilletfish and killifish or anything really cool that I think could survive in the tank at that time. Once the tank is well established, then I'll consider some tougher fish species, like seahorses and pipefish, but they may eventually be housed in the sump if the blennies are too aggressive. I may add some live bivalves at the time too, but not a lot, just an oyster or two, perhaps some mussels, tunicates, bryozoans, sponges or anything else that I may find in my area. My goal is to control nitrates and phosphates with a planted tank as much as possible, perhaps with some dosing too, we'll see. I'll have to feed the filter feeders regularly too and have read up on that somewhat. How long I can pull that off remains to be seen, but the ultimate goal would be to have a successful system that really resembles and oyster reef. The focus will always be for my favorite fish though, the blennies. The end goal is to have a good healthy population of them, maybe a breeding one!

Three builds have influenced my thoughts on the direction of this effort greatly, and I thank them for sharing their experiences with us, and I've linked their threads here:

"Michael Hoaster's Caribbean Biotope Seagrass Tank" (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2391470) including some of his aquascaping DIY ideas.

Gabe W's "My 55g Coldwater Aquarium" (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1939645&highlight=coldwater). I really would like to know if he still runs this tank. It's been a long time since he's updated his post. I really enjoyed following that thread and the progress of his tank. I won't be using a chiller though for my tank as he did.

and also many ideas from Paul B's experiences, some you can view on his thread titled, "almost 35 year old reef pictures" (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1711320). I think the thread is about 30,000 pages by now, LOL and the reef a bit older. I really enjoy Paul's posts.

Anyway, there is a lot of good info in those threads and hopefully I can achieve my goals for this tank thanks to that info.

Thanks for following along and I am very sorry about how long this is taking. it's killin' me, believe me...

[happyhourhero]

Hey Zack, any post about blennies is cool so go for it ;)

I think that it looks like a juvenile seaweed blennie. Does it have any light blue lines on the face? Maybe those appear when they age? I don't know. I searched fishbase and there are some pictures that look similar, but your fish lacks the blue lines (right now) and the spot on the dorsal fin in your pictures. Can you see a spot when your fish raises the dorsal completely? There are several color variants of this species. This website has a few examples:

https://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/fish/discover/species-profiles/parablennius-marmoreus/

Whatever your fish is, it's cool as heck and a great find!

Thank you for the reply! I have a black blenny in my main tank that I always thought was a seaweed but I do not know anymore. It stays black but if you look at it very close in the light, it is covered in rust colored spots over the black.

I think this new one is a seaweed, at least it looks like it is. I will try and look at the dorsal when I get home. I will say that is changes colors more than any fish I have ever had and it does it quickly and frequently.

I am excited to see your tank once finances allow you to get it going. I know how that goes and that is why my tank is a pacific reef that is occupied by a bunch of Bay fish..lol. I will say that all fish I have collected locally have been in perfect health and I would trust them 10000x more than anything a wholesaler imports.

Here is a Molly Miller that came in with the seaweed and the tessellated.

http://i.imgur.com/JbmA4qc.jpg
http://i.imgur.com/vS66RfA.jpg

[OllieNZ]

Based on what you want to achieve running your tank a little bit 'dirtier' may not be a bad thing. I'm letting my sump/fuge do what it wants in regards to algae/macro growth just keeping it trimmed enough so the light doesn't get blocked and the amount of micro fauna I'm getting is pretty good

[Chasmodes]

It sounds like maybe Hypleurochilus geminatus (http://www.fishbase.us/summary/speciessummary.php?id=3759)? Hard to see without a picture. All those cool blennies must make for a really fun tank! Do they seem to get along OK?

Based on what you want to achieve running your tank a little bit 'dirtier' may not be a bad thing. I'm letting my sump/fuge do what it wants in regards to algae/macro growth just keeping it trimmed enough so the light doesn't get blocked and the amount of micro fauna I'm getting is pretty good

Yeah, that's what I want, as much nature as possible. Dirty is my style, ha ha. Save money too maybe! Although I don't know what is a worse money pit, tanks or boats! :headwallblue:

[JZinCO]

Updates Chas?

[SantaMonica]

Wow really neat. Just like the edge of Choctawhatchee bay I lived on.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks SantaMonica. I'll have to do a search on that bay to see what critters reside there :)

JZ, I hope to have the funds to go forward soon. I'm in the middle of doing my taxes, so hopefully I'll get that return soon. My wife and I agreed that this tank is a priority, after we get our new well pump and well piping repaired! I could be collecting by May if all goes well!!!

Sorry for the delay again...it's killin' me :sad2:

[Chasmodes]

Wow really neat. Just like the edge of Choctawhatchee bay I lived on.

Did you ever keep native fish from there? I see it is near Panama City. Might have all 3 species of Chasmodes there!

[SantaMonica]

No I had no tanks there. Did not even like the bay :(

[Chasmodes]

Well, I finally have an update. I've ordered most of my equipment except plumbing supplies.


Current: Maxspect XF230 Gyre Generator Flow Pump with Advanced Controller
Return Pump: Sicce Syncra Silent 3.0 Multifunction Aquarium Pump (714 GPH)
Lighting: EcoTech Marine Radion XR30w G4 Pro LED Light Fixture
New test kits
RO/DI five stage from The Filter Guys

[Michael Hoaster]

Great stuff!

[cfsg]

great

[Chasmodes]

All of my stuff that was in stock when I ordered it came in the last couple days, so I'm very excited.

I need to finish up my other build this weekend, at least the part that I'm using my stand as a work bench for LOL, so I can finish the stand. My old miter saw is junk now, so I need to go out and buy a new one so I can finish the face frame of my stand. I also need to add my laminate to finish the look of the stand.

I also need to build my water changing station and make room in my basement for the final placement of everything. I'll need to make a hole in my wall between the rec room and the basement for my plumbing, etc.. That might freak my wife out a bit, :debi:

There was one item that was out of stock, but perhaps I'll get it within a month, which won't hold up anything. If I can't get it from my vendor, then I'll search for an alternative. It's really not a big deal.

So, making room in my basement will not be an easy task. I have to clean off my current "real" work bench and relocate it, clean off an entire heavy duty shelf of plastic storage containers and relocate it, relocate 2 smaller shelves and all of that stuff, do a ton of laundry to turn the dirty laundry mountain into a managable foothill, and build a stand for my changing station.

I was planning on making my water changing station totally gravity fed, but I think that I'm going to bite the bullet and buy a pump simply because it will save space, which is at a premium in my basement.

Who says you can't move mountains? It's possible, as long as it's only laundry :fun5:

I also received a new dipnet called "The Perfect Dipnet", which is probably the most durable dipnet that you can buy. I'll be ready to stock this tank big time.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like things are starting to come together. That reminds me, I need to do a load of laundry! Get that basement cleaned up and the wife will get on board. I'm a big believer in establishing an accommodating ecosystem for the aquarist. Practical work space, comfortable tank viewing, etc. We have to take care of the most important species-ourselves.

Good luck and keep us informed!

[Chasmodes]

I think that the amount of laundry detergent that I'll need might exceed the cost of the new saw! :eek1:

[Chasmodes]

I began collecting fish and inverts for my oyster reef tank. The only problem is that the main tank isn't done. I have work to do on my stand and a lack of time to do it, especially if I'm out collecting critters. I only have so much free time! So, it might be later this fall before I finally get to finish the tank, mostly because my weekends are booked. But also, it's collecting time, the fish are there, and I want them when my tank is ready and cycled.

So, what I've done is set up and cycled a 20 gallon long version of my reef, with a few of my smaller oyster cultches in there and...fish! I just couldn't wait any more. Now, I have a temporary holding tank that I can enjoy my new fish while I set the big tank up properly.

I'm very excited because, up until yesterday, all I had in there were 5 juvenile naked gobies (Gobiosoma bosc) and a small grass shrimp. Yesterday, I went collecting and found a couple juvenile striped blennies (Chasmodes bosquianus) and three skilletfish (Gobiesox strumosus) and added them to my tank. I also added some Ulva sp. macroalgae and some razor clam shells that were prevalent at my collection site.

The tank looks great, but eventually everything in here will be transferred to the main tank. I'm not sure what I'll do with this tank, maybe either a seahorse/pipefish tank or perhaps a stickleback tank. I also have a 20 gallon high tank cycling now that I may use as a future holding tank.

Full tank shot, striped blenny in the right foreground:
I guess I should think of this tank as "mini me" version of my oyster reef.

Naked goby (left) vs. striped blenny on the right (largest of my two blennies):
I guess I should think of this tank as "mini me" version of my oyster reef.

Naked goby staking out an oyster shell:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7693_zpsqpqn3j9k.jpg

A very quick video of my smallest blenny ducking for cover:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_ftCNW5BKg

Here's the larger of the 2 blennies checking things out:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N-aoyeZNJr8

How about a naked goby territorial dispute? They'll just do some push ups, flare their gills, open their mouths wide, extend their fins all to make themselves appear larger and more intimidating...until one has had enough and chases the other off:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_KoxKHPyFmc

[Chasmodes]

Not long ago, the tank had a bunch of brown and green microalgae, not too bad and normal for a pretty young tank. But, now it's disappearing probably due to competition from the Ulva that I added recently.

Ammonia zero, nitrite zero, nitrate was 100 ppm on Saturday, down to 50 ppm now. I did a partial water change on Monday that helped that along too. I haven't noticed growth in the Ulva, so it's just a suspicion now of what I think is going on. We will see.

I hope to get some live sand to boost the copepod and worm population in the tank. The blennies love bloodworms. I also hope to get a couple more types of macroalgae along with amphipods to stock the tank. As I keep collecting, one goal would be to constantly bring home a source of live food for these critters.

The grass shrimp so far have been a pretty good cleanup crew. This should last until the blennies grow large enough to eat them.

[Michael Hoaster]

Very cool! You need to collect while the collecting's good, so you're using a temporary tank in the meantime. Not sure why you can't also get the tank ready but as you said, you're booked. Good luck with your collecting. I hope you get everything you want.

[Chasmodes]

Very cool! You need to collect while the collecting's good, so you're using a temporary tank in the meantime. Not sure why you can't also get the tank ready but as you said, you're booked. Good luck with your collecting. I hope you get everything you want.

Thanks Michael. Yes, time is the issue now. Also, I ran into another problem with the big tank as I need a new electrical line installed for my sump. I have only one single location where I can put the sump in my basement, and there is zero electricity there. The basement doesn't have adequate outlets either, so, I need to get help for that. I'm afraid that I'll fry myself trying. Until then, I have to live through this tank.

More pics:
The smaller blenny:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7727_zpsdgwaj7dz.jpg

The bigger blenny hiding in some Ulva. The light shining through makes him look martian green :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7731_zpspdduf3gd.jpg

Grass Shrimp:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7749_zpskaofmvns.jpg

The bigger blenny hiding in the oyster shells:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7751_zpsmuu1iza0.jpg

Night time:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7753_zpsrl9zeskr.jpg

FTS:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7712_zpsskockt87.jpg

New videos:

Scanning the tank:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yr0WscGEiGs

The larger blenny hanging out in Ulva:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I0-GaGaP8RE&t=16s

The little blenny hanging out around his favorite shells:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GknHcVZt7BM

[Michael Hoaster]

Fun pics and vids!

How about skipping the sump? That solves your electrical issue and your overflow issue.

[Chasmodes]

Fun pics and vids!

How about skipping the sump? That solves your electrical issue and your overflow issue.

Thanks Michael. I've considered doing that and may go that route. I can always plumb the sump in later. Another option would be to just place the sump in the same room as the tank. It wouldn't be as pretty, but, it would work.

On the bright side, my father-in-law is a retired electrician. If I can motivate him, perhaps he could oversee me doing the work. If... Otherwise, I'd have to pay someone to do it and right now, money is tight.

I also need to finish my stand. I just need to make time to do it. There are other priorities that are competing for my time, not just collecting. But trust me when I say that just having this 20g tank set up is motivating me even more to get that tank up and running. It's so cool, but it could be much better. I am learning more and more about the inhabitants, their needs, their behaviors every day, and that is so cool.

Last night, I fed them frozen mysis shrimp, which I thought would be a little big for them, so I only used 1/2 a cube. They went nuts and stuffed themselves silly. The mysis shrimp were about 3/4 the size of the little blenny and he ate one somehow. Also, you could see the white of the shrimp inside the gobie's buldging bellies. It was comical.

Another funny thing happened. The larger blenny was hovering about mid depth looking for a frozen mysis shrimp to eat, and one of the skilletfish swam up to him and tried to "cling" to the side of the blenny! It was hilarious. The blenny didn't seem to mind, but the skilletfish couldn't hang on and slid off. I've never seen that before and I've kept skilletfish before.

I'm not sure if I mentioned it or not, but there is a tiny mud crab hitchhiker that I found in the tank. I didn't intend to keep any. The blennies both attack the crab like it's their last meal, so I don't know how long it will live. So far, it still has all appendages and eyes intact, and has created a burrow under an oyster shell. Every time a fish or shrimp come near it, the crab scurries down the burrow. It reminds me of fiddler crab behavior on a marsh bank.

Another interesting thing is that the blennies seem to ignore the grass shrimp as potential meals. This might change as the blennies grow into adulthood. At least, I expect that. The grass shrimp are interesting to watch and are plentiful for me to get. So, if these fish eventually feed on them, that would be OK with me.

I also have a weird colony of something growing on the side glass. I saw a colony earlier and scraped it off. It was kind of calcarious and had some resistance when I scraped it off. I'll have to get a picture when it grows large enough. I think that they're hydroids perhaps, but not sure, could be bryozoans.

I'm going to try and collect again this weekend. I won't keep any more fish unless I get something ultra cool, but no more of the species that I already have. I'd like something to cruise the open water of the tank though. A spotfin butterflyfish would be my ultimate goal for that. But, the main reason to collect would be to get more macros, copepods and amphipods along with some live sand and maybe some mud to add to the tank.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yeah, putting a sump in the basement, means you have some serious head pressure to work against, driving up your pump cost a lot. Also, I remember you were having trouble deciding on your overflow setup. If you really are going the planted route, you don't need a sump. They are good for hiding heaters 'n stuff though. Couldn't you just put a sump in your stand?

I'm glad to hear you're enjoying your 'locals'. My blennies ignore tiny food like rotifers but go nuts for stuff that's half their size. It's crazy these little fish eat food so big. Seems like the smaller they are the bigger their mouths are. I'm also glad to hear they are motivating you to get your tank done!

Live sand and mud would be a great addition, especially if you get some seagrass. What do you have there, eelgrass? I think just about any plants you can collect would be great. I love the local biotope theme!

On my recent Europe trip, in Venice, I kept seeing cool macro algae floating around. I was so tempted to grab some and bring it home with me! But the thought of explaining myself to customs was enough of a deterrent.

Good luck collecting! A butterfly would be cool, but would it look natural in your setup? I considered some caribbean butterflies, but I think they would go after my precious worms, so I've just about written them off.

It's great that you're posting more now. Now that my tank is old news, it's great to see other guys stepping up. Bravo!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael. I have an update but will post with pics and vids in the next couple posts after this.

My tank is just on the other side of the wall from where the sump will be, so head pressure isn't an issue. However, I do have to work out electricity and plumbing issues. I may go sumpless to start the tank up and add it later. It would be more convenient for water changes, etc. rather than lugging buckets around or running hoses into my rec-room. It will also add about 45g to the water volume, a good thing IMHO.

I added more Ulva and what I think is widgeon grass to the tank (which does well in sandy bottoms from what I've read), so we'll see how that goes. We have eelgrass and shoal grass, but I haven't seen any at my collecting spots yet. I don't think this light is adequate, so I'm not expecting much. I think all will be good in the big tank. If the macros and grass don't do well in this tank, then I can just replace it after another collecting trip as long as I keep up the water changes. I also added a bunch of whole oyster shells to the cultches, and whole clam and muscle shells shells to the tank that had a bunch of "life" growing on them as did the grass. I think this will help with the overall health of the tank, providing food and additional "native" bacterial from the collection site.

The largest blenny is king and was chasing the small one around like crazy, just wouldn't leave it alone. Then, all of a sudden, the next day, the larger blenny shows an aggressive posture to the small one, but the small one stand his ground now and the big one backs off. In fact, they sometimes hang together now. I added two more tiny blennies to the tank. They're in the chasing stage some, but not too bad. They will all settle down and tolerate each other soon. Maybe when they enter adulthood, they'll breed!

My blennies are juveniles but eat like adults at times. I like to watch them prior to
feeding because when they're hungry, at first they'll cruise the glass near me because they already associate me with food, but after they settle down, they go foraging relentlessly. It's cool to watch as they pick hydroids, worms and pods off the shells and rocks. They're antics are so fun, typical of many blennies, but unique in a way too.

The butterflyfish are fairly common further South where the salinity is a bit higher, so we will see. I haven't caught any tropical strays yet. So far, just killifish of all kinds, pipefish, american eels, silversides, skilletfish, 2 species of gobies, and the striped blennies. So, the butterflyfish will fit the biotope.

Update with pics and vid to come :)

[Chasmodes]

I added two more tiny juvenile blennies to the tank along with shells full of live out of the Bay, some macros and added widgeon grass (I think it is widgeon grass anyway). Widgeon grass does well in the wild on sandy bottoms, so well see. I picked up some floating by while we were collecting.

I'll post pics and a video. I added a bunch of whole oyster shells to my structure along with the macros and really think that the tank looks great. All of this will wind up in my 100g eventually, but for now, it's fun to watch.

I also added a circulation pump (upper LH corner of the tank) which really helps.

Here's a full tank shot:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7897_zpsauewuvob.jpg

Skilletfish upside down. Can you see him? These guys are comical and are my daughter's favorite now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7823_zps3ob51aoy.jpg

The largest striped blenny (Chasmodes bosquianus) in my tank. They really should rename the common name to skunk blenny because of the stripe down the front of their face from the dorsal fin. But, it's not my call! This guy is about 1.5" long and grows to about an average of 3", but up to 6" according to Fishbase. I have yet to catch one over 4" long.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7837_zpsnwftppq6.jpg

Here he is again peeking out from an oyster shell.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7850_zps4xrdl44l.jpg

The striped blenny again perched on the oyster cultch. You can distinguish blennies from the Genus Chasmodes from Hypsoblennius species because they are more laterally compressed:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7852_zpskhmkhflr.jpg

Gobiesox strumosus, the skilletfish, attached to any oyster shell. I have five small ones in this tank.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7855_zpsp1dupdc9.jpg

A naked goby (left, Gobiosoma bosc) perched on an oyster shell next to a juvenile striped blenny. The widgeon grass is in the background. I'm actually still not sure about the seagrass ID, it's just a guess.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7857_zps5guetkzx.jpg

Chasmodes bosquianus peeking out of an oyster shell.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7861_zpsyf313gyj.jpg

Notice the specialized ventral and pectoral fins of the skilletfish (Gobiesox strumosus) that allow it to cling to just about anything including shells, bottles, aquarium glass, fingers, and the inside of HOB filters! An interesting fact is that even after death, the specialized fins will stick to things. Moving forward seems to dislodge the suction, while pulling back causes the suction.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7869_zpsiztrf0aa.jpg

to be continued...

[Chasmodes]

The skilletfish is tough to see in this picture, blending in very well. See him?
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7900_zpsf2hogllz.jpg

And over the top he goes! Side view. This type of clingfish is called the skilletfish because of its pan like shape.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7901_zps7fbuqtyn.jpg

Frontal view of the striped blenny (left) and a naked goby (Gobiosoma bosc) under the oyster shell, perched on a razor clam.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7907_zpsdditqbqm.jpg

And I'll end the post with a video showing the critters in action. Hope you like it!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BPuOkBYEPbc&t=29s

[Chasmodes]

One more picture that I forgot to add.

This is a juvenile striped blenny. Notice the different bold coloration of the juvenile, almost checkerboard like.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7858_zpsolmc2cr1.jpg

The other one in previous pics almost has an olive hue. They can change colors quickly, from a dark grayish to almost greenish. But, the adults seem to lose the ability to get this checkerboard look. I'll see if I can get a good picture of an adult that I collected to show you the difference.

It goes to show though, that when trying to ID blennies, colors aren't always the best way.

[McPuff]

This is a very cool system. I love those little blennies. :0)

And I just realized this is only a temporary system. The structure you've created looks great. I'm a bit jealous of the molly miller. I really want to get one.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks McPuff! Yep, everything including the critters, shells, plants, sand and structure will go into the big tank as soon as I finish my stand. Michael suggested not using the sump. I will go ahead and set it up sumpless to start, and plumb it in later.

My larger striped blenny does look a lot like a molly miller because he stuffs himself and takes on the greenish hue from sitting in the Ulva all of the time. But if you look at his nape, he lacks the thick matt of cirri (hair do) that molly millers have.

I kept a molly miller years ago and it was a great fish, tons of personality and very tough and hardy. There are a couple on-line vendors that sell them if you're in the market for them. For me to collect them, I'd have to travel to the Carolinas, I think. It's a little too cold up here for them.

Hypsoblennius hentz (feather blenny) is also found in the Chesapeake Bay, and I've collected a total of one of them in my life, kept it and was a great fish too. I'd love to get another some day when the big tank is set up. It resembles the molly miller even more. There is an outside chance to catch a crested blenny (Hypleurochilus geminatus) as they are sometimes found in the more Southern saltier stretches of the bay. Seaweed blennies (Parablennius marmoreus) also are sometimes caught down that way.

Maybe there's a molly miller down there too? I haven't heard of any, but tropicals sometimes stray to the Virginia Beach area. Anyone collect molly millers around Virginia Beach?

All of these blennies exhibit similar dietary needs, with Chasmodes preferring more meatier foods and molly millers a bit more omnivorous. But, they all have a ton of personality, enough to keep me entertained with their antics for hours each day. I can't wait to get home from work to observe them.

[Chasmodes]

I had about at least 15 grass shrimp in my tank and the number seems to be about half of that now. I saw the largest blenny attack and kill a small grass shrimp this past Wednesday just after I approached the tank. These fish are well fed. What I've noticed is that these fish recognize me as providing food and become very active, almost to the point of a feeding frenzy, when they pretty much attack anything that moves. It's not just the blennies, but all of the species seem to do this. Well, before I could drop any food in there, one of the small grass shrimp became a quick meal, killed by the biggest blenny but ultimately swallowed whole by a thieving skilletfish.

Well, yesterday, it happened again. I didn't capture the crime in progress, but I did manage to film all of the fish conspiring in the cover up to hide the evidence:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tB5hhOZc300

I also have some pics of some fish that I caught last week. These are larger adult striped blennies that are currently in a 20g high aquarium.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7981_zpsynfzresc.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7963_zpswcwy4y4t.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7958_zpszi0nhax0.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7956_zps1zjhayez.jpg

This striped blenny and skilletfish shared this oyster shell for about an hour without incident. In my other tank, that doesn't happen much. I'm sure if they were breeding it would be a different story:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7940_zpsuy4jfslz.jpg

[Michael Hoaster]

Wow, you've been busy! Totally freaking awesome! Great pics and the tank looks great and your fish are awesome. I love the new scaping you've done too. There was one pic I had to stare at for a while before I spotted the fish.

Adding assorted 'life' is a good thing! Worms and pods and other sand-dwelling creatures will help process detritus into plant food.

Great job!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael.

Last night as I approached the tank, all of the fish came to the front begging for food. I fed them frozen brine shrimp. The smallest blenny sat on my finger at the water surface and ate, claiming first dibs. I've nicknamed him "Tiny Tim". They all had fat bellies after feeding time.

The hydroids (I think that is what they are) have grown quite a bit, forming a snowflake like shape. It looks cool. I'll have to take a picture of it.

There are also things growing off the new shells that I added that look like a brown macroalgae of some type. I am pretty sure that they aren't hydroids or bryozoans, because it looks soft, but I'm not sure it's algae either. It grows in a branch like pattern. I'll take a pic of it and post it here and see if anyone can ID it.

One of the skilletfish tried to cling to the largest goby again. Those guys are comical and much more active than the one that I kept years ago, maybe because I have 5 of them now instead of one. They kind of remind me of the Monopoly game character, only flattened into a skillet shape!

[Michael Hoaster]

That's got to be an awesome feeling, having everything in your tank collected by you! Keep those pics coming!

[Chasmodes]

Yes, it's fun, plus, not knowing what you'll catch makes it quite the surprise when you collect something cool that will "fit" in the tank. I hope to get out collecting this weekend, even if for only more macros, grass and pods.

So, I went back to your thread Michael, and revived an old post about your substrate:
I should talk a little more about the substrate. If you go back to the beginning of this thread, you'll see a lot of discussion about it. I was very focused on providing the best substrate conditions for the seagrass. Now I'm thinking more about the whole mini-ecosystem, or microcosm. You've got to start at the bottom of the food web, to support everything-including the grasses.

Different grain sizes support different levels of oxygen, which support different types of bacteria, etc. I want a variety of microfauna and flora, all the way up to zooplankton, for biodiversity in the (substrate) food web. I'm hoping the course stuff and shells will provide an in-tank refuge for benthic plankton, helping to maintain their numbers, even with predation.

Some might be surprised at my inclusion of silica sand. Remember, I hope to keep some sponges and sea squirts. They like silica.

Also, I'm hoping the aged ecocomplete will kind of act like compost, for the seagrasses. Speaking of which, I ended up ordering three different seagrasses; Shoal Grass, Manatee Grass and Turtle Grass. It will be interesting to see which will enjoy the conditions in my tank!

So, my question to you is, would you do anything different now that you've been doing this a while? I'm trying to plan ahead for the larger tank set up.

For those that haven't seen Michael's thread, here is the page where this post resides (post 157): http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2391470&page=7

[Michael Hoaster]

Good question! As for grain sizes, I'm still happy with super-fine oolite on the bottom with coarser stuff on top. I have watched pods enjoy the refuge of the coarse substrate, while worms enjoy getting down into the fine stuff. I also recommend acquiring live sand from different sources, for biodiversity. If you plan to plant seagrasses or any other higher plants, I would recommend some kind of dirt in there, with maybe an inch of sand covering it. These plants get a lot of their nutrients from the soil, using their roots. Ideally, it would be the mud the plants were growing in. I'm not sure you can collect them that way though. Otherwise, potting soil, garden soil or good old yard dirt should work. Also, Florida Pets has some live mud that is the real deal.

If you aren't attempting higher plants, you don't need soil. If you are, you may want to soak the soil for a couple months in water with the same salinity as your tank. This will give the soil time to settle in with being water logged.

Hope this helps! Bottom line, I wish I had added more dirt than I did, for the grasses.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael. I was going to bring some mud home last trip, but what we found really stunk a lot and I was worried about adding toxic hydrogen sulfide to the tank. I may go the commercial route instead. However, I'm on the fence about it because I'd really like to keep it local flora and fauna.

Here's another video of my fish feeding on the grass shrimp that they killed below. Notice the Ulva attached to one of the oyster shells. The camera seems to pick up plenty of other "life" that I didn't notice before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PKB2orGAaBM

[Michael Hoaster]

It's a daunting task, making a commitment to adding mud. As I said, ideally you're scooping up whatever the grass is growing in with it, so that may not be the really nasty stuff.

I restarted our three gallon betta vase yesterday for my wife. We hope to grow some plants in it, so I grabbed a pot of dirt that has been sitting at the bottom of my outdoor garden pond for a couple years, to give the plants a rich rooting place. The dirt is mostly hidden by a coarse, shelly substrate, in the vase, but I did notice some kind of wormy things at the soil surface. The betta is actively hunting them now. So having mud is not just for plants. It is also the best way to start up the base of the food chain.

That video is amazing! If you couldn't see the edge of the tank, you'd think it was filmed in nature! So cool. It's wild to see nature's violence on such a small scale. Well done!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks for the tips Michael, and the complement! Never a dull moment in that tank! Ironically, I thought that I needed a fish for the upper parts of the water column, but the benthic fish provide plenty of action. They're always moving around the structure, browsing for food, claiming space, asserting their place in the pecking order, or just plain curious of the other creatures.

Last night I took a few more pics focusing on the "other life" that is appearing.

This colony of hydroids (I think) is growing on the right side glass back in the corner of the tank. It started out as a small star shape and is now about an inch across. There was another one early on that I scraped off of the back of the tank, not knowing what it was, then this one appeared:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7995_zpsvzuvj6fc.jpg

Shot of the corner of the tank:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7996_zpsgvgvzwq4.jpg

There are hydroids growing all over this widgeon grass, and a pretty long flowing colony shown by the arrow, with a naked goby photobombing my effort:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7998_zpssqdnplww.jpg

The fish perch all over this grass and don't seem bothered at all by the hydroids. The blennies seem to pick at them when they're browsing for food. I don't think hydroids are their favorite food, but they sometimes spit them out and sometimes ingest them.

This blenny was photobombing my attempt to capture a good shot of the long flowing hydroid. The picture of him looked too cool not to post :)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8003_zpsp7hctj2z.jpg

I don't know that this is. I doubt they're hydroids because I don't see tentacles or polyps. Maybe bryozoans or macroalgae? Anyone know? They're popping up on some of the oyster shells that I recently introduced.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_7997_zpst7clonbb.jpg

[Chasmodes]

Oh, and for those who like the old "eye spy" type of stuff, there's a skilletfish in the third photo. Can anyone spot him?

[Chasmodes]

I took a couple interesting videos. Hope you like them.

Feeding frenzy:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TZpPS9iG2dQ

Skilletfish Antics:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASgWBiNHzb4

[Michael Hoaster]

Great vids! You've got a good number of fish in there now. How many of each? That's so cool they eat right out your hand. It's hard to believe they are so bold, so newly introduced to captivity!

Another thing I like about your fish is that you are showing us all that even local, muted color fish are just as interesting to watch as any gaudy, exotic reef species!

Any progress on the big tank? It's going to be amazing!

[Chasmodes]

Great vids! You've got a good number of fish in there now. How many of each? That's so cool they eat right out your hand. It's hard to believe they are so bold, so newly introduced to captivity!

Another thing I like about your fish is that you are showing us all that even local, muted color fish are just as interesting to watch as any gaudy, exotic reef species!

Any progress on the big tank? It's going to be amazing!

That is my "other" tank, which will be my holding/QT tank for my collections in the future. It's a 20g tank with 13 blennies, 12 naked gobies, 10 skilletfish, about a half dozen grass shrimp, and I think at least 2 mud crabs that I never see. All of the inverts came in as hitchhikers on the oyster shells. My intent wasn't to keep these fish as I promised them to someone else, but as it turns out, this tank is very interesting to watch, and I've learned a lot about how these species get along together. It's a tight space in a 20g high for all of these fish. But, although there has been a pecking order within each species established, and somewhat between them, they all get along much better than I'd anticipated. Once I set up the big tank, it will be interesting to see how things play out, especially if they start spawning.

Another interesting thing is that my tank parameters are pretty good with zero ammonia, slight amount of nitrite, although nitrate is a little high at 100 ppm. Maybe I'll toss some Ulva in there. What surprises me with this tank is that even with the large bioload and heavy feeding, that the parameters are not off the charts. I started out doing water changes every two days, then every 3 days and now once a week, and maybe longer in between in the near future.

My 20g long tank has the oyster cultches and smaller fish in it is doing well. Ammonia and nitrite are zero, nitrate is 80 ppm. Once the big tank is set up, this tank will become a stickleback tank. I think the 20g high will remain a collecting holding/QT type of thing. I have four 55 gallon tanks in my shed that I may bring back to the house and set up.

OK, when on the big tank? Good question. I need to invest in a miter or table saw so that I can finish my stand. The guy that was going to help me informed me that he couldn't do it because he doesn't have time, so I really need to take the DIY approach. It's a money issue again, but maybe sooner rather than later. These two tanks really have me psyched to get the big tank up and running.

[Chasmodes]

And yeah, as far as fish color goes, I agree. I am interested in fish personalities and habits more so than bright colors. That said, the male blennies color up quite a bit with orange hued fins, orange cheeks and bellies, a yellow streak along the dorsal, and a bright blue spot on the dorsal fin. Maybe someday I'll experience those changes, but right now, all I see is a little orange around the operculum and tints on the fins of the males.

If I'm someday lucky to get some tropical strays, a spotfin butterflyfish might brighten the tank a little bit! Also, there is a chance that I can catch a couple goby species that are pretty colorful, but not very common in the Bay. We shall see!

[Blizzard 123]

Wow I find this very interesting. Cool seeing fish you caught your self must be neat. What about parasites on the fish and things you bring in? Aren't you a little concerned of these. I once collected a few snails that were at beach near where I am but nothing to this scale very cool.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Blizzard. I'm not really worried about parasites. The fish have all been really healthy so far, and I look them over pretty good while collecting them in a photo tank on site.

I set up a holding tank to observe them in so I don't add obvious infected fish to the tank. After a week or so, if they're doing well, then I'll transfer them into the main tank. If I need to treat any fish for parasites, then I can always set up my 10g for that. So far, I haven't had the need. I think that some of the grass shrimp have parasitic isopods on them, but they don't prey on fish, and they don't seem to impact the health or behavior of the shrimp. I far larger threat to the shrimp are the fish, that have killed and fed on a couple of them. So far, they ignore the shrimp or just chase them away from their perch. The shrimp that they killed happened when they started their own feeding frenzy. The larger blenny just attacked a shrimp out of nowhere and chaos ensued. I really don't mind that happening, because there is an endless supply of them if they constantly become a food item.

If the main tank ever has a fish kill due to parasites, then remove the fish and treat them in QT and run the main tank fallow for a while until they die off, then I'll collect for it again.

Here's a blenny pic for today. This is the largest striped blenny in the 20g long tank. It's grown almost a half inch in the last month and is almost 2" long now:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8030_zps70dxavyc.jpg

[Blizzard 123]

Ok just wondering what you do about the parasites. Very cool that the fish attack shrimp and replicates the wild very cool. The tank we have once did the same thing you are doing except with fish from the sound. We caught fish on our local beaches and put them in the tank mimicking the outdoor environment. It was good until a crab got in and killed all the fish.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chasmodes]

I've got quite a few changes. First, in the 20g long, I added some red algae and it looks great. Also, the widgeon grass that I put in last time didn't root, so I tossed it. I brought some more home that had some roots and planted it, so we will see. I meant to bring home some substrate but didn't do that. I caught 7 more blennies, kept the three smallest and added them to the tank. I also added more oyster shells to create more hiding places for the additional blennies. I also added more grass shrimp.

Here is one of the blennies that I brought home:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8080_zpsvcvcuv8v.jpg

Here's a FTS of the 20g long:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8095_zpsnyuzyofm.jpg

The red macro and the new widgeon grass:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8097_zpsfvj3urdj.jpg

In the 20g high, I gave away all of the fish. I did, however, bring home the biggest skilletfish that we've caught yet and added it to this tank. It is currently the only fish in the tank, hanging out with a bunch more grass shrimp and three hitchhiker crabs. I also added a big bunch of the red macro and a bunch of Ulva.

This is the jumbo skilletfish in my photo tank that I brought home and put in the 20g:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8081_zpspvng48b0.jpg

Here's a really good view of the specialized fins that the skilletfish (and clingfish) have that allows them to use suction to grip oyster shells, glass, and even fingers ;)
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8085_zpsdepyx05o.jpg

Here's a current look of the 20g high:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8099_zpsodmxazpg.jpg

[Chasmodes]

Juvenile striped blenny, Chasmodes bosquianus:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8107_zps9sf1uoli.jpg

[Chasmodes]

I have a couple updates, one that I meant to say something about last week, as well as something new. I'll start with the new tidbit. A new colony of bryozoans like the snowflake shaped ones that are growing on the right side glass appeared on the left side, almost in the same location. It appears that they prefer the darker areas of the tank. Either that, or I keep scraping them off when I clean the front glass.

The event that happened last week freaked me out, but I guess that I shouldn't have been all that surprised. Striped blennies are pretty fearless and tough characters in the tank. Even the smallest ones are brave and chase away both the gobies and the skilletfish (although both of the other species will chase them off too at times). But, I never expected this to happen:
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v19/fatboykevin/Oyster%20Reef/IMG_8049_zps1aubh4v1.jpg

It occurred in the 20g high tank. Yep, I lost a juvenile blenny due to skilletfish predation. This medium sized skilletfish ate my blenny!!!! I saw it happen. It wasn't a scavenging event. I couldn't believe it. All of these fish had full bellies. I mentioned last week that I gave all of the fish away from that tank, but this one little blenny was going to move to my 20g long tank. All he had to do was make it one more day.

Anyway, that is something to keep in mind when keeping skilletfish or similar clingfish. They have large mouths, and, although most of what you read about them says that they eat worms, amphipods, small crustaceans, etc., they will also eat fish, even small more aggressive ones.

[Chasmodes]

Oh yeah, I forgot, there was more to the story. I actually trapped the skilletfish with the blenny in his mouth against the glass with my hand, so I could see if the blenny was still alive or not. The gills had already stopped moving by that time. I was going to try and free the blenny. But, since it was gone, I just let him eat it. This pic was taken after I released the skilletfish from being pinned against the glass. About 4 hours later, the blenny couldn't be seen and the skilletfish was fatter than fat....

[Michael Hoaster]

More great pics! Mother Nature can be a cruel mistress! Does this change your stocking list?

[Chasmodes]

More great pics! Mother Nature can be a cruel mistress! Does this change your stocking list?

Yes, it can be cruel. But nope, I'll maintain what I have and move on. I think that the larger blennies are OK with the skilletfish. That blenny was pretty tiny and was an easy snack. I just have to make sure that if I bring home more blennies in the future, that they're in the same size range as what I currently have on average.

Sorry about not responding sooner. We were on vacation to Myrtle Beach. I didn't do any fish collecting (although I brought my stuff) because of a lack of free time to dedicate to that. We did quite a bit of fossil shark tooth collecting though with some success. My tanks are fine. I weaned my fish off of frozen food and on to flakes simply because I had nobody to feed my fish while we were away. So, I bought a couple of the flake food automated feeders. My fish all eat flakes now, so that is a good thing. However, I will feed them more live and frozen food now that I'm back and supplement with flakes now and then (just so they recognize them as food). I want them as healthy as possible, but not too spoiled. They're all as fat as can be!

My Ulva died off in one tank, but is doing OK in the other. I think lighting is the issue. That will be fixed once I transfer everything to the big tank where I will have much more powerful lighting. I may have to do something with CO2...not sure yet. We will see.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sounds like a plan. It sounds like you had a nice vacation as well! In my experience, ulva can tolerate a variety of light levels, but really takes off with maximum light and nutrients. And because it is so relished by so many herbivores, it has to outpace consumption as well. I had some right at the water surface, under a 400 watt MH, and it was quite happy.

I'm really looking forward to seeing you get your main tank up and running!

If you hope to get really good plant growth, CO2 is very helpful. It is plants' favorite form of carbon, which is plants' most important nutrient. Seagrass and macros' C-N-P (carbon-nitrogen-phosphate) ratio is around 475-25-1. Lots of folks dose nitrate, but ignore carbon. It seems they want to avoid the expense and complication of a CO2 setup. My suggestion would be to save $400 on a skimmer and spend $100 on a CO2 regulator. Plants can get all the nutrients they need, from fish food and decomposition alone, but not in the ideal ratios. If we are trying to give our plants ideal growing conditions, we should attempt to give them what they want. Of course, the downside is more pruning/exporting, so if you don't want prolific plant growth, CO2 is unnecessary.

[Chasmodes]

My suggestion would be to save $400 on a skimmer and spend $100 on a CO2 regulator.

Thanks Michael. Which one do you use? Are you happy with it? Recommendations? Where did you get it? Where do you get your tanks?

My wife really wants my tank up and running (well, me too, of course), so she asked me what I needed to get that done, and agreed that we should focus on that. So, that is good. What does that mean? I can spend more money, LOL. Now all I have to do is find the money!

Also, I have a couple live barnacles in the tank that I didn't see before. I found a new bryozoan colony too. All of the fish grew since my vacation started, a lot more than I thought that they would, about a 1/2" each! There are a couple small patches of cyanobacteria and some patches of green hair algae. I expected this though. It's not bad, but I may have to take action if they spread a lot. What is important to me though is that the fish are all happy. I had a couple grass shrimp go carpet surfing. They found the hole where my automatic feeder dumped food into the tank.

[Michael Hoaster]

I can't remember what brand I got and there's no brand logo on it. I originally bought it around 15 years ago for a calcium reactor. I then repurposed it for my fresh water planted tank, running the airline tubing to my canister filter intake. I'm running it the same way on this saltwater planted tank.

I think they're all pretty much the same. I'd start with googling CO2 regulator for aquariums. I bought mine from an online store. I get 5 pound tanks at my local Airgas store. Again, google local CO2 tanks and you shouldn't have any trouble. Lot's of people use them for Kegerators, and restaurants use them for fountain drinks.

They're easy to setup. Just thread the regulator onto the tank, open the main valve on the tank, and adjust the bubble rate with the regulator's fine adjustment knob. I check mine occasionally and adjust if needed. Simple! I run mine 24/7, but lots of people run theirs only when the lights are on-especially with smaller tanks, where CO2 buildup can be dangerous to fish.

For your temporary tanks, I wouldn't worry much about algae, though you might use the time to find effective herbivores before you start the big show. When you are ready to start up the display tank, I'd plant heavily, to give the plants a head start on algae and bacteria, which competes with plants for nutrients. The usual cycling is counterproductive. Plants will do the lion's share of nutrient filtering and bacteria will colonize as usual, doing their bit.

[McPuff]

If you're looking for a nice dual stage regulator, check out CO2art.com. They are based out of UK. Prices are terrific, I really like the quality, and the performance has been great so far. I've been using mine for almost a year. If you go with these, I'd recommend going with the special needle valve...

And just after I typed this I went to their site and it says they are no longer accepting orders. No idea what happened there. They had awesome customer service and great products. Argh!

[Chasmodes]

Thank you very much Michael for the info. I think it will be a good way to go. After adding plant material to my current tanks, I really think it makes the tank more realistic and full of life and color (as opposed to clumps of oysters covered in just hair algae or cyano), so that is the direction that I'd like to go with my bigger tank.

LOL, thanks anyway McPuff. It's a good starting point for some comparison shopping.

[Michael Hoaster]

Marine Depot sells a Tunze regulator for $110. If I was shopping for one, I'd get the tunze. They're products will outlive mankind. Those Germans know a thing or two.

I'm very excited to hear you are going this route! Please document your experience here for others to see. CO2 is easy!

[McPuff]

Marine Depot sells a Tunze regulator for $110. If I was shopping for one, I'd get the tunze. They're products will outlive mankind. Those Germans know a thing or two.

I'm very excited to hear you are going this route! Please document your experience here for others to see. CO2 is easy!

The Tunze regulator is pretty good. I had one that seemed to do well, but I had an issue with the needle valve so I had to ditch it. It was a returned item so it may have been defective from the start. I'd say give them a try. I love Tunze products.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael and McPuff!

[Chasmodes]

I have some updates on my 20g long. The Ulva is pretty much gone. I'm not sure that the parameters are right from growing macros in this tank (light, etc.), plus, I'm sure that the shrimp and crabs eat some of it. I probably won't add much until I get the main tank set up. I can't tell of the other macro is growing or not. There are some parts that seem to, and others I'm not so sure about. It looks good in the tank still, and provides good cover for the smaller fish, so I'm leaving it in there. The sea grasses have died off, so that experiment ends until I get the main tank set up. I have some cyanobacteria and some green hair algae areas on shells and sand where the most light hits that could be competing with the macros and seagrass for nutrients. Right now, I'm not too worried about this but would like to figure it out prior to setup of the main tank. We will see how that goes. I personally don't think it looks that bad as it still adds color, plus, the crabs and shrimp seem to eat it.

Both colonies of bryozoans are expanding across the tank glass on either end of my tank, in the darker areas. They look cool.

One thing that came in handy was the purchase of an automatic feeder to keep my fish fed while I was away on vacation. We couldn't find anyone reliable that new much about fishkeeping, so this was my solution. It worked out OK. The only issue that I anticipated was if the fish would actually adapt to and eat flake food or pellets, since, up until my trip, all they've eaten were live or frozen foods for the most part. My attempts at feeding them flakes were with mixed results. The gobies ate flakes with gusto. Some of the blennies ate the flakes, ingesting some or spitting out some, and other blennies ignored the flakes. The skilletfish ate flakes at times, but not often.

As far as pellets go, they were a little too big for most of my fish, and for the ones that tried to eat them, they spit them out at first and later kept attacking them until they were bite sized enough to eat them. The blennies broke them up and ate some, and then the gobies would follow behind and eat some of the fragments, while the skilletfish ignored the pellets altogether.

So, I made the decision to go with flakes in the auto feeder. I had no other choice.

After returning from my trip, I noticed that all of the fish will eat flakes now. Gobies still eat them with gusto, as do the blennies if they're hungry. If the blennies aren't hungry, they ingest them and sometimes eat some of the "flavors" while spitting out others. Skilletfish will eat flakes at times, but not that much.

The gobies and blennies all grew and are all fatter than fat. A couple of the gobies grew almost a 1/2" while we were gone (about 10 days), which I thought was amazing.

Also, I thought that I had only two crabs in the tank, but as it turns out, there are three of them. I've identified two of the crabs as the white-clawed mud crab, a.k.a. the Harris mud crab (Rhithropanopeus harrisii). I'm not sure of the third crab species as it looks different, but, I really haven't had a good look at them. Until now, the crabs have been hiding mostly. Recently, two of them come out during feeding time, and one of those is out foraging even while not feeding. In fact, last night, it was moving all over one of the oyster reef structures all the way to the water's surface.

From what I've read, they only grow to about an inch or so, and they aren't aggressive toward fish or shrimps. I'd bet they'd eat them if they could catch them, but, so far, I've seen blennies actually land on them and the crabs just move away. They raise their claws if fish near them, but so far, haven't tried to grab any fish. The shrimp seem to be good at avoiding them. I also read that these crabs feast on all types of snails. I don't have snails in my tank at the moment, but if I add them, these will have to be stocked often to keep a population of them.

Here are a couple videos of my tank.

The first one pretty much follows the largest blenny of the tank:
https://youtu.be/mBe7XgwgZ-M

I tried to view the tank in general with this video, bouncing from one fish to another:
https://youtu.be/dc_YRaTyF0s

Hope you all like them.

[Michael Hoaster]

Thanks for the update fix. I'm really enjoying it! The vids are great.

It's fascinating, hearing of your experience with this type of tank. I'm sure you're inspiring people!

I do agree it would be helpful to work out some issues in these 'pre-tanks'. I'm guessing you'll need to shift your focus towards plants a bit, to insure you can have the success you want with them, and they become a critical part in your tank's ecosystem.

In the meantime, I'm enjoying following your journey!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael.

I just wanted to say that I haven't given up on growing macros in these 20g tanks, just the grasses for now. I think that if I can successfully grow the Ulva and other macros, then that would be a good start for the grasses when I know that my lighting is adequate. I simply don't want to spend a ton of money on these smaller tanks.

I won't add Ulva to the 20g long since it dies off. But, I still have some that seems to be doing better in the 20g high tank. I have been using a simple reflector and an LED Home Depot bulb, and have since added another of the same fixture and bulb. The other algae seems OK too. There may be some die off, but also more signs of growth (the Ulva is still very vibrant green after 2 weeks and the only die off is in a dark corner of the tank), and little to no cyanobacteria in that tank, and the bioload consists of a bunch of grass shrimp, a few mud crabs, and one skilletfish. That is encouraging to me.

As far as the 20g long tank goes, I'll try manually removing some of the cyano and see if that reduces the competition.

In the main tank, the key will be the set up and planning, making sure that the substrate is optimal, that there will be enough nutrients (including the purchase of the CO2 regulator) and sufficient bioload, and finally that I introduce more macros early to eliminate competition. The substrate for the main tank will be seeded by substrate from these tanks. And the lighting should be perfect for good plant growth. By the time that I think that raising the SG to a higher level might also help in the long run.

One thing that I need to figure out is a better way to mount the macros than just tossing them in and weighing them down, or at least find a better way to weigh them down, LOL. I hope to do more collecting soon, hopefully to get some amphipods and maybe a few more fish for the 20g high. The lone skilletfish is a huge one, about 2.75" long and a head about an inch across. It is fatter than I'd expect, so I'm wondering if it is an egg bearing mature female. I'd like to get a couple more skilletfish at about the same size to see if I can get them to breed. Plus, that tank needs more activity and the additional bioload should help with the macroalgae growth. That tank had about 25 fish in it a few weeks ago before a gave them away. The big skilletfish was a new addition afterwards.

[Chasmodes]

Here is a video of one of my crabs. I think that this crab is the white-clawed mud crab, a.k.a. the Harris mud crab (Rhithropanopeus harrisii). If this is not correct, I'd appreciate the correct ID. (thanks in advance)

https://youtu.be/EWN32SSwcAw

[Chasmodes]

We discovered a new critter in my 20g long tank. After feeding some frozen brine shrimp, my daughter noticed a worm-like creature, a little over an inch long, swimming around the glass in the front right corner of the tank, about mid depth. At first, I thought it was a chunk of dead sea grass caught in a current eddy, but nope... Upon closer inspection, it was brownish and had a segmented body, with 2 long antennae or head appendages, and a bunch of legs. It resembled a centipede, so I assumed it was some sort of isopod. It was too fast to get a picture. By the time that I had my phone at the ready, it had scurried back into the oyster reef. It was pretty cool.

Of course, I had some concern about the potential for parasitism, even though I thought it was probably OK (because if it was a fish parasite, then it would have a host by now especially since it was over an inch long). Anyway, I thought it was pretty cool but it freaked the heck out of my daughter.

After researching on-line, it looks a lot like the on-line pictures of the elongated eelgrass isopod, Erichsonella attenuata. This species, if correctly ID'd, is not a threat for parasitic activity.

I will try and get pics and see if anyone can confirm the ID.

[Chasmodes]

I have an update for my oyster reef "system". The 20g long that started this thread is still going strong, with 6 small striped blennies, 5 small skilletfish, 5 naked gobies, two new juvenile killifish (probably juvenile mummichogs), 3 white-clawed mud crabs, an unidentified harmless isopod, a bunch of grass shrimp, and red macroalgae. All of the fish are fat and healthy. I tried to add three silversides but that didn't work out. They made it home just fine, which is what worried me the most. They were about 2 1/2" long and looked great in the tank, until the 2" clingfish killed and ate the first one. Another one was harrassed by the blennies and died, then devoured by the gobies and a crab. And the last one died of unknown causes during the night, probably killed by the same culprits. The only issue with the tank is that with the heavy bioload and feeding, cyanobacteria growing some pretty large patches. I don't think it looks necessarily bad, but I'd rather have those nutrients consumed by Ulva which hasn't done well in this tank.

The 20g high tank that I was using as a holding tank is now set up as a display also. I added a large artificial oyster cultch that I built for my large tank so that it could also grow life and additional bacteria needed to cycle my large tank when I set it up, in addition to the sand. This tank seems to grow Ulva pretty well. I have a small hang on back power filter and a bubble sponge filter in the tank, and two garage clamp on light fixtures overhead with LED bulbs. Cheap and simple, but it works. Over the weekend, my daughter and I went collecting again and found some inhabitants for this tank. We added 6 adult blennies, 2 jumbo skilletfish, 5 adult naked gobies, and two mummichogs to the tank. We had one jumbo skilletfish, a live barnacle, a bunch of grass shrimp, and 3 mud crabs in the tank prior to adding these. When rearranging the tank and moving the oyster shells around, I discovered that bloodworms were living in the tank. Awesome! A natural food supply! I also discovered a tunicate that is alive and well, and is growing much faster than I thought that they would. I think that the Ulva is really responding to the heavy bioload. I have a little bit of cyano in the tank and some hair algae, but the macros (Ulva and a red algae) are doing well. The fish have only been in the tank for a few days and are already feeding out of my daughter's hand. All of the fish were eating mysis shrimp the night that we introduced them to the tank. All are fat and healthy.

Here's a video of the blennies in the 20g high (sorry about the music, I figured it was better than hearing our clothes dryer running):
https://youtu.be/hn8xIsLFZ_8

The water parameters of both tanks are great. No ammonia, no nitrites and very little nitrate, so the bacteria and algae are doing their job.

[Michael Hoaster]

Great update and vid!

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Michael!

Feeding the 20g high some frozen chopped clams. It's like a fish mosh pit...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sVJM6R5Y0Yk&t=129s

[McPuff]

Hey in case you're still looking for the CO2 regulator... I just got an email from CO2art saying they're back up online! So check them out! Like I said, I could not be happier with the dual stage regulator I purchased from them.

[Chasmodes]

Hey in case you're still looking for the CO2 regulator... I just got an email from CO2art saying they're back up online! So check them out! Like I said, I could not be happier with the dual stage regulator I purchased from them.

Thanks McPuff! I'll check them out.

[Michael Hoaster]

Also, if you are interested, I saw a DIY regulator thread in the DIY section.

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Michael.

Quick update: the Ulva in the 20g high is doing well. No die off now and seems to be growing. One thing that I noticed that when it dies off, the large "leaves" tend to break apart and get holes in it. That isn't happening in this tank. I'm not sure about the other algae, but it's hanging on. These fish are all tame, almost too tame, because they don't act naturally, always coming to the front for food, even with full bellies after a meal. If I stay still, they kind of forget that I'm there after a while, but if I move or flinch, they come back and chase the glass again. I guess I'll need to build a blind if I want to see them act naturally. What gluttons! But, the good news is that all of the fish are healthy.

The tunicate is doing well and the barnacle is still alive. I haven't seen any crabs, but I know that three are in there. It is possible that the fish ate them. I guess I'll have to visit the tank at night and view with a red light so I can see what else lives in there that the blennies haven't eaten.

Here's another feeding video, featuring mostly skilletfish feeding out of my daughter's hand with the others hanging around for dropping morsals.

https://youtu.be/00z25IgiJEQ

[Subsea]

One of my dreams was to duplicate the oyster reef environment of the Chesapeake Bay as best I can without predation. My plan is to have a 120g corner quarter cylinder tank with a live sand from the Chesapeake Bay and perhaps some of the rock there for the live rock. I'll purchase some porous base rock and take my time getting the bio filtration going. I'll have a refugium/sump too, probably 55g.

Animals will be collected from the Bay that live side by side in this environment:

Chasmodes Bosquianus - striped blenny

Hysoblennius hentzi - feather blenny

Naked goby

Skilletfish

Northern pipefish

Ghost shrimp, hermit crabs, snails, etc. for clean up crew that live in the bay.

just about any critter that comes in on the rocks (fish will not be introduced for 6 weeks after the tank cycles and they are QT'd to reduce parasitism).

I may try my luck at some of the other species of fish too eventually.


The actual reef will be an oyster reef but I'm not sure if that will include live oysters or not. I was thinking that if live oysters would be the best way to go to perhaps separate them from the fish in the fuge...my concern is that if one of them dies that I'll have pollution and kill the fish. So really I'm leaning on just using empty dead oyster shells and maybe have one or two oysters in the tank that I can monitor.

The Chesapeake bay is brackish and the salinity varies based on rainfall and runoff, but these fish have bred in captivity with a salinity of 1.015 or so. Also, the environment is colder and there are no coral growth issues.

Has anyone done this? What do you think? The blennies will be my main focus.


I really like your focus on this tank. When I first set up a marine tank in 1971, I used water on an incoming tide. Crushed up oyster shells from a chicken feed supply house was my substrate. I used an oyster cluster rock with numerous filter feeders. From the Galveston jetties, I collected Peppermint Shrimp and anemonies. I recall one fish store that had Curly Cue Anemonies that were brillianly colored. I asked the store owner where the colorful anemonies came from. When I told him that the ones I collected were translucent in color, He told me to get some food dye and a syringe. I inquired as to how long this treatment worked, he said about 30 days, then his customers would come buy more. Needless to say, it was the last time I visited that store.

[Michael Hoaster]

You mean you DON'T have a duck blind for viewing your tank? Doesn't everyone? Ha! Who knew those little guys were so smart! Can you darken the room lighting? You are the hand that feeds them. The feeder should help. I feed with a turkey baster. My fish perk up when they see it...

[Chasmodes]

I really like your focus on this tank. When I first set up a marine tank in 1971, I used water on an incoming tide. Crushed up oyster shells from a chicken feed supply house was my substrate. I used an oyster cluster rock with numerous filter feeders. From the Galveston jetties, I collected Peppermint Shrimp and anemonies. I recall one fish store that had Curly Cue Anemonies that were brillianly colored. I asked the store owner where the colorful anemonies came from. When I told him that the ones I collected were translucent in color, He told me to get some food dye and a syringe. I inquired as to how long this treatment worked, he said about 30 days, then his customers would come buy more. Needless to say, it was the last time I visited that store.

Thank you Subsea. I bet that was a very cool tank!

I guess shady characters exist in every business. It's up to us to learn and become knowledgeable so we can sort out the best retailers from the crooks. I bet that guy now does robocalls selling anemone warranties.

[Chasmodes]

You mean you DON'T have a duck blind for viewing your tank? Doesn't everyone? Ha! Who knew those little guys were so smart! Can you darken the room lighting? You are the hand that feeds them. The feeder should help. I feed with a turkey baster. My fish perk up when they see it...

Ha!!! My daughter gets a kick out of feeding them, so the 20g high might stay her tank. I'll just have to collect more blennies for the big tank and find a way to feed them without them associating me with food (maybe the turkey baster method) or build some sort of blind!

Yeah, smart lil' buggers. It is comical though when they're so obsessed with you feeding them. They often swim up and down against the glass, then get a little tired and need a break, so they glide down for a landing. Sometimes they land on another blenny, or a crab, or another fish, and they all sit there, staring at me! If I wasn't there, they'd be biting or pinching each other. :rollface:

One problem is that the lights are about 6" above the top of the tank and cause my reflection to appear in my pics and videos. I guess I need to build a canopy.

[Chasmodes]

Here's another video of my daughter feeding the fish last night. After the chopped clams were devoured, they skilletfish didn't want to leave her hand!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bBYJGaUc_Q0

I'm not sure what's going on with the large killifish. A white spot showed up the other day on its side. Yesterday, it looked a little better and today even better. Perhaps its own immune system is fighting it off? If not, I'd have to find a way to trap that fish and provide treatment.

[Subsea]

I have some updates on my 20g long. The Ulva is pretty much gone. I'm not sure that the parameters are right from growing macros in this tank (light, etc.), plus, I'm sure that the shrimp and crabs eat some of it. I probably won't add much until I get the main tank set up. I can't tell of the other macro is growing or not. There are some parts that seem to, and others I'm not so sure about. It looks good in the tank still, and provides good cover for the smaller fish, so I'm leaving it in there. The sea grasses have died off, so that experiment ends until I get the main tank set up. I have some cyanobacteria and some green hair algae areas on shells and sand where the most light hits that could be competing with the macros and seagrass for nutrients. Right now, I'm not too worried about this but would like to figure it out prior to setup of the main tank. We will see how that goes. I personally don't think it looks that bad as it still adds color, plus, the crabs and shrimp seem to eat it.

Both colonies of bryozoans are expanding across the tank glass on either end of my tank, in the darker areas. They look cool.

One thing that came in handy was the purchase of an automatic feeder to keep my fish fed while I was away on vacation. We couldn't find anyone reliable that new much about fishkeeping, so this was my solution. It worked out OK. The only issue that I anticipated was if the fish would actually adapt to and eat flake food or pellets, since, up until my trip, all they've eaten were live or frozen foods for the most part. My attempts at feeding them flakes were with mixed results. The gobies ate flakes with gusto. Some of the blennies ate the flakes, ingesting some or spitting out some, and other blennies ignored the flakes. The skilletfish ate flakes at times, but not often.

As far as pellets go, they were a little too big for most of my fish, and for the ones that tried to eat them, they spit them out at first and later kept attacking them until they were bite sized enough to eat them. The blennies broke them up and ate some, and then the gobies would follow behind and eat some of the fragments, while the skilletfish ignored the pellets altogether.

So, I made the decision to go with flakes in the auto feeder. I had no other choice.

After returning from my trip, I noticed that all of the fish will eat flakes now. Gobies still eat them with gusto, as do the blennies if they're hungry. If the blennies aren't hungry, they ingest them and sometimes eat some of the "flavors" while spitting out others. Skilletfish will eat flakes at times, but not that much.

The gobies and blennies all grew and are all fatter than fat. A couple of the gobies grew almost a 1/2" while we were gone (about 10 days), which I thought was amazing.

Also, I thought that I had only two crabs in the tank, but as it turns out, there are three of them. I've identified two of the crabs as the white-clawed mud crab, a.k.a. the Harris mud crab (Rhithropanopeus harrisii). I'm not sure of the third crab species as it looks different, but, I really haven't had a good look at them. Until now, the crabs have been hiding mostly. Recently, two of them come out during feeding time, and one of those is out foraging even while not feeding. In fact, last night, it was moving all over one of the oyster reef structures all the way to the water's surface.

From what I've read, they only grow to about an inch or so, and they aren't aggressive toward fish or shrimps. I'd bet they'd eat them if they could catch them, but, so far, I've seen blennies actually land on them and the crabs just move away. They raise their claws if fish near them, but so far, haven't tried to grab any fish. The shrimp seem to be good at avoiding them. I also read that these crabs feast on all types of snails. I don't have snails in my tank at the moment, but if I add them, these will have to be stocked often to keep a population of them.

Here are a couple videos of my tank.

The first one pretty much follows the largest blenny of the tank:
https://youtu.be/mBe7XgwgZ-M

I tried to view the tank in general with this video, bouncing from one fish to another:
https://youtu.be/dc_YRaTyF0s

Hope you all like them.

Awesome vidio! The translucent grass shrimp rock. They are very brave to swim in the open like that. Did you blue to oyster structure together. I like it. My first marine aquarium was a Galveston Bay biotheme. I gathered a large oyster cluster that took up 1/3 of a 55G tank. No live oysters, but numerous barnecles that would sweep the water with their 1/2 fans. That was in 1971 and I have been addicted every since.

[Subsea]

I have an update for my oyster reef "system". The 20g long that started this thread is still going strong, with 6 small striped blennies, 5 small skilletfish, 5 naked gobies, two new juvenile killifish (probably juvenile mummichogs), 3 white-clawed mud crabs, an unidentified harmless isopod, a bunch of grass shrimp, and red macroalgae. All of the fish are fat and healthy. I tried to add three silversides but that didn't work out. They made it home just fine, which is what worried me the most. They were about 2 1/2" long and looked great in the tank, until the 2" clingfish killed and ate the first one. Another one was harrassed by the blennies and died, then devoured by the gobies and a crab. And the last one died of unknown causes during the night, probably killed by the same culprits. The only issue with the tank is that with the heavy bioload and feeding, cyanobacteria growing some pretty large patches. I don't think it looks necessarily bad, but I'd rather have those nutrients consumed by Ulva which hasn't done well in this tank.


The 20g high tank that I was using as a holding tank is now set up as a display also. I added a large artificial oyster cultch that I built for my large tank so that it could also grow life and additional bacteria needed to cycle my large tank when I set it up, in addition to the sand. This tank seems to grow Ulva pretty well. I have a small hang on back power filter and a bubble sponge filter in the tank, and two garage clamp on light fixtures overhead with LED bulbs. Cheap and simple, but it works. Over the weekend, my daughter and I went collecting again and found some inhabitants for this tank. We added 6 adult blennies, 2 jumbo skilletfish, 5 adult naked gobies, and two mummichogs to the tank. We had one jumbo skilletfish, a live barnacle, a bunch of grass shrimp, and 3 mud crabs in the tank prior to adding these. When rearranging the tank and moving the oyster shells around, I discovered that bloodworms were living in the tank. Awesome! A natural food supply! I also discovered a tunicate that is alive and well, and is growing much faster than I thought that they would. I think that the Ulva is really responding to the heavy bioload. I have a little bit of cyano in the tank and some hair algae, but the macros (Ulva and a red algae) are doing well. The fish have only been in the tank for a few days and are already feeding out of my daughter's hand. All of the fish were eating mysis shrimp the night that we introduced them to the tank. All are fat and healthy.

Here's a video of the blennies in the 20g high (sorry about the music, I figured it was better than hearing our clothes dryer running):
https://youtu.be/hn8xIsLFZ_8

The water parameters of both tanks are great. No ammonia, no nitrites and very little nitrate, so the bacteria and algae are doing their job.


I really like the way you have balanced this system. I love the biotheme. I especially like you collecting crittes with your daughter. To a kid, love is spelled "time" together.
Kudoes to you.

[Chasmodes]

Awesome vidio! The translucent grass shrimp rock. They are very brave to swim in the open like that. Did you blue to oyster structure together. I like it. My first marine aquarium was a Galveston Bay biotheme. I gathered a large oyster cluster that took up 1/3 of a 55G tank. No live oysters, but numerous barnecles that would sweep the water with their 1/2 fans. That was in 1971 and I have been addicted every since.

Thank you Subsea!

So many blennies to choose from in Galveston! :bounce3: That must have been an awesome tank.

Yeah, I got the most of the shells from restaurants and also shucked some that I got from the grocery story. Then, I matched them up and glued each halve together with Gorilla Glue. After that, I glued them one at a time, fitting each one into a cultch. In this tank, you're looking at the largest cultch. There are about 8 cultches that will all form my oyster reef in my 101 gallon tank eventually. I put them in these tanks so I could start collecting, and at the same time, get some bacteria cultured on the cultches and also the sand in both tanks. Kind of like a head start. I have one barnacle, LOL, that I didn't know was there until I rearranged everything. There is also one sea squire. I hope both survive, but they may not since these tanks are relatively newly set up (less than 3 months).

As far as the grass shrimp go, I put a bunch in both tanks. Only a couple have jumped out, and most have lived. In my other tank, the fish ganged up and killed the largest one and at it, then did the same thing to one more. I don't think any have been killed since in that tank, and in the 20g high, I don't think any have been eaten. But, I'm not around all of the time, so it is possible.

That's the one good thing, there are plenty of shrimp to catch and add to the tank to replace the ones that get eaten. They've lasted a lot longer than I ever thought that they would.

[Chasmodes]

The naked gobies are exhibiting more color than I thought that they ever would. Some of their fins are trimmed with yellow or red (depending on how the light hits them) and also they get dark and the lighter areas between their color bands get bold white dorsally. Also, in these videos, it's easy to see the difference between the male and female blennies. The males have a blue spot on the front of their dorsal fin.

I figured out a way to get the fish to almost figure out that I'm not there. I need to build a canopy for my lights. For now, the cardboard box that my glass tank top came in fits perfectly as a temporary solution, placed there when I view the fish and removed when I'm done. I'll try and get a non-feeding video today and post it here. The fish tend to settle down and do their thing after feeding time is over, somewhat. They forage, get into territorial disputes, asserting dominance and challenging the pecking order, moving from one oyster shell refuge to another, chasing opponents...and looking for me.

But for now, here's another feeding video. Hope y'all aren't sick of my thread. I figure that this thread helps document my progress to my larger goal, the 100g tank once set up. I'm kind of learning as I go as these tanks are really a big experiment This video is amusing because the fish steal the food away from my daughter twice:

https://youtu.be/Iz9iLiCqUNE

[Chasmodes]

Not so good update of the 20g high... The tunicate and barnacle died. I'm bummed, but I expected that to happen. The fish are doing well for the most part. The largest killie still shows a spot on its side, but other than that, seems healthy and eating well, with no sign of distress. Both killies looked great until last night when I noticed that them and a few gobies had beat up tails. I watched them for about an hour after feeding to see who the culprit was, but still don't know. They all pick on each other a bit... blennies chase blennies, gobies chase gobies, killies chase killies, skilletfish chase anyone away from their hiding spot, and they all chase each other a little bit. But, none of them seem to do much damage. Well, except for the smallest blenny. I caught it biting a gobies tail, latching on hard and with a ripping motion. So, maybe I found the culprit. None of the fish go into hiding or seem stressed, so I hope everyone heals and moves about their daily routine.

The grass shrimp numbers are declining. Other than a couple carpet surfers, most of them probably were prey to the fish, although I didn't witness any predation. The crabs are a different story. I never see them, although I know that they are there, because they leave behind their molted shells. I'll have to check the tank at night to see what is going on. I still haven't done that.

I figured out a way to get them to behave naturally and not beg for food. Feed them. Duh...!!! But, that alone doesn't work because no matter how fat they are, they still beg for more. So, I set up my temporary "canopy" and also set up a DIY blind using shop clamps, a towel, a bungee cord and a hanger. After a couple minutes, they forget that I'm there. In the video linked below, you can see them acting more naturally. That is, until one of them spotted me moving at the end. Also, in the video, I came to realize that my killies might be a pair. Maybe some spawning activity? Hope y'all like it: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mTOJrQa9uRM

[Subsea]

Your tank rocks. For viewing at night, I use red LED, the critters can't see it. I have a separate blue LED for viewing phyoto luminance. Corals take in blue light as a high energy input and reflect back green as a lower light energy.

[Michael Hoaster]

You're getting a bunch of good videos done!

I would have thought the tunicate and barnacle would have had plenty of food, I'm guessing DOC. Maybe they need phytoplankton as well. I add phyto every few days and sodium silicate every other day for my sponges and tunicates.

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Michael. I think that I'll wait to stock tunicates and barnacles until the 100 gallon is established. But, I think that you're correct. There was enough food in there.

Update: In my 20g high, the largest blenny, that I thought was a female, revealed the blue spot on his dorsal fin, finally. The spot is hidden with a dark border, but when the light hits it right, it glows. That fish doesn't flare his dorsal fin much, at least until recently. He's king of the tank. The next largest blenny doesn't seem to have a spot, so I think that one is a female. The second biggest one doesn't really flare the dorsal too much, so it is hard to tell if a spot is there. The base coloration is totally different than the larger one. Although, there is a bunch of variation between all of the individual specimens. There is another small female, and the rest are males as they display their bright blue spots all the time. None of the blennies have shown any spawning behavior yet. They're pigs. All they want to do is eat. That said, the largest blenny seems to finally hang around one particular oyster shell for long periods, defending it. But, often abandons it in search of food. He chases all fish away from that shell, but it's hard to tell if it is because he is defending the shell, or just showing them all that he is the boss.

As far as the Ulva in the tank goes, it's doing well. I feed these fish heavily, so there are plenty of nutrients in this tank. That might explain why the sea squirt and barnacle expired (too much ammonia?). I don't think it was for lack of food, at least this time. I also moved them so I could observe them, possibly upsetting their environmental needs. They were alive and well before I intervened. I performed a water change after testing the water. There was a trace amount of ammonia, some nitrates and 50 ppm or so of nitrates. Out of about 30 grass shrimp in this tank, only about 10 remain at most, maybe less. I think the missing ones have been eaten. A couple jumped out of the tank. The grass shrimp in this tank hide a lot in the Ulva and Gracilaria, for obvious reasons, so it's tough to get a count. In the 20g long, where there are subadults and juvenile fish, the grass shrimp are always out and about.

It's tough to tell what sex the fish are in the 20g long as those fish don't seem to have any spot on the dorsal, but they're still a big small, I think. Maybe they haven't developed that coloration yet? A friend of mine who is an expert on Chasmodes says that they develop the spot early in life. If that is true, then my 20g long most likely the fish in that tank are all female. I performed a water change and cleaned out a bunch of cyano. Water parameters were zero for ammonia and nitrite, 30 ppm for nitrates. There are at least 8 grass shrimp out of about a dozen that I placed in there. I know of one jumper, the others may have been eaten.

The killifish seem to do a courtship wiggle or dance often. I don't know if they've deposited eggs or not. I haven't seen it happen nor have I seen any on the vegetation, although with the appetite of those fish, I doubt they'd last long enough for me to see them.

[Michael Hoaster]

Moving your barnacle and tunicate may have been the culprit. I know that sponges are very particular about their orientation to the current. Are you planning to keep live barnacles, oysters, mussels in the future? If so, do you know what their needs are?

You've got quite the fish soap opera going! Who needs store-bought fish!

[Chasmodes]

Well, yep, I have a lot of studying to do. It wasn't really in my plan, but now I'm interested in trying to keep filter feeders alive. I changed their flow and lighting, and I'm pretty sure that was the problem. I noticed that both closed up whenever fish were nearby. If the fish were nearby often enough, they'd never be open enough to feed effectively. That's my theory anyway. Also, the oyster shell that the barnacle was on became infested with hair algae to the point that it may have made it difficult for it to feed.


You've got quite the fish soap opera going! Who needs store-bought fish!

Yes, that's a great analogy! I learn something about their behavior each day. I had some doubts about keeping this many benthic species in a limited environment (even 100 gallons). But, what I've learned are the following:

- If the fish can handle the nutrient load of feeding them, then they seem to "get along" just fine. They do chase each other, even a little fin nipping. But, the picked on seem to heal up fast, and sometimes fight back. After they get chased, they don't hide in a corner of the tank or behind a filter, they go about as if nothing happened. This is true for all of the species in the tank.

- After my last collecting trip, all of the blennies and gobies came from one oyster box that is smaller than my 20 gallon tank. I'd say that they can get along just fine in a small tank environment based on that alone. I read so many posts about people worried about multiple blennies in a tank. I suspect that it depends on each species, but these are pretty aggressive carnivorous blennies, and with enough specimens to "spread the love", nobody gets picked on more than the others.

- Lots of hiding spots is the key, including good escape routes. These escape routes can be crevices in rock (in my case, between oysters in the cultch), through a mat of macroalgae, or within a hiding spot.

- Sometimes when a blenny gets chased, it simply spins does a lap around an oyster shell enough times that the fish doing the chasing either gives up or loses interest.

- Skilletfish are fearless. But, I'd say that all of them are not really afraid of each other.

- I was worried about mud crabs being a threat to the fish. After watching them around the fish, I no longer fear that as an issue. Blennies, gobies and skilletfish often land on them with no reaction from the crab, except sometimes they shoo the fish away with a claw, but do not try to pinch the fish.

- Grass shrimp live much longer in these tanks than I ever imagined. I thought that they'd be all eaten within a week. I'm pleased about that.

[Michael Hoaster]

Yes, I think it would be cool to at least give those filter feeders you can collect a try. They would be another great addition to your 'oddball' tank concept!

I do think your stocking levels may be a tad dense in your temporary tanks, but that shouldn't be a problem in the big one. Plus you're learning how densely you can get away with, and how to ameliorate any issues, with hidey holes etc.

How big do your crabs get? What do they eat? From what I've read about crabs in general, their biggest threat is at night, when fish settle down.

That's cool your shrimp are making it. In my experience, small shrimp added BEFORE the fish are safe (usually). Shrimp added AFTER the fish are food.

[Chasmodes]

Thank you Michael for your input, always appreciated.

Both species of these mud crabs get about 3/4" across tip to tip of the shell. That's about it. I think as the blennies grow to adulthood, the threat of being eaten is the other way around!

As far as the shrimp go, most of them were accidentally collected with the macros. The way that I look at it is, if they live as inhabitants, great. If they become food, great too, because I can get a bunch each time that I go collecting! :thumbsup:

So far, the tank is overpopulated and overfed, but the fish seem very happy and energetic and healthy. Also, I'm doing regular water changes and watching parameters, so I'm sure that helps. As far as inverts go, in the big tank, things should improve. It is just over 100 gallons and an additional 45 gallons if I plumb the sump in. Plus, the lighting is much better and should support all of the macro growth that I could ever want.

Oh yeah, forgot to mention. The white spot on the left side of the big (female) killifish was there for about two weeks. I didn't treat it at all since the fish wasn't distressed due to it aside from a little scratching now and then. Yesterday, I noticed that the spot has completely disappeared.

With regard to your comment on your thread about starting from the ground up with that tank...I most definitely will do that! Your advice makes perfect sense. Being fairly close to their natural habitat is a great advantage in that regard too. These tanks were a bit rushed to set them up, so I'm adapting as I go. Still, if these tanks succeed, then I'm confident the larger system will be that much better.

[Michael Hoaster]

I'm stoked! Can't wait for your masterpiece to be unveiled!

[Chasmodes]

Quick update:

Both tanks seem to have an increase in itching/scratching behavior. I don't see any visible parasites, but that doesn't mean they aren't there. It's hard to get a good look at them anyway because they move around so much. In fact, I'd say that there likely have been parasites in these tanks all along. All of the fish have scratched a little since the beginning. It's just more frequent now. So, what to do.

My assumption is that the culprit is Cryptocaryon irritans simply because freshwater ich doesn't seem to tolerate any salinity. From what I've read, C. irritans doesn't care for freshwater, so my initial plan is to reduce the salinity and perform a long term hyposalinity treatment.

Currently, the sg is 1.016. I plan to reduce it to about 1.009 and keep it that way for several weeks for each tank. I'd like to have these fish healthy by the time I get the big tank set up.

These fish are very hardy, so I don't anticipate any problems. The shrimp should be OK, as they are commonly caught at a lesser salinity than what I'm doing. My guess is that the mud crabs will be OK too, but I'm not 100% sure. I doubt the Ulva will make it through the process, but we will see.

[Michael Hoaster]

Hypo salinity sounds like a good call. You may also want to look at the Tank Transfer Method. Although, with my current knack for killing fish, I'm not a reliable resource in the fish disease arena. So, you may want to employ the 'costanza method', where you do the opposite of what I do…

[McPuff]

Hypo salinity sounds like a good call. You may also want to look at the Tank Transfer Method. Although, with my current knack for killing fish, I'm not a reliable resource in the fish disease arena. So, you may want to employ the 'costanza method', where you do the opposite of what I do…

I do agree that TTM is going to be your best bet. But then you have to be ready with a new display system and that is the rub. I don't see another way to ensure you rid your fish of ich for the long haul. I'm sure they did have parasites coming in, but in the wild it wouldn't have been too damaging for them. Obviously now, the parasites can get out of control for each fish. Argh, such a pain. That said, TTM is very easy and doesn't really require a lot of equipment/supplies, especially for smaller fish like you've got. Use a 5 gallon tank/container at largest.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael and McPuff. I am going to try the hypo treatment first, simply because catching the fish and removing them to do the TTM might be very difficult, given the structure that they can hide in.

However, I've been thinking about how I might be able to pull off catching them and trying TTM, if I have to go that route. Since we've been hand feeding the fish in the 20g high and they're very tame, food and a net might be enough to catch most, if not all, of them. The fish are a lot more wary in the 20g long though, and those fish will be tough to catch, so hypo most likely is the way to go.

The good thing is that these fish face these types of salinity swings in the wild and are very hardy. Plus, I'd like the sand and oyster structures to be disease free. The change in sg isn't as bad as going from full sea water to a hypo state. I'd be reducing from 1.015 to 1.009 sg. From what I've read, that should do it. One of the problems reefers face when trying to use the hypo treatment is that inverts can't take the treatment, and lowering sg to 1.009 isn't possible, so eliminating parasites is very difficult. And, some fish can't take that type of treatment either.. I don't have corals or sensitive invertebrates to worry about.

Worse case scenario, if hypo doesn't work, I can fall back on the TTM.

Another thing, if I can pull this off, then I'll be confident that I can transfer the sand and oyster structures to my main tank disease and chemical free. And, I'd have an effective QT system in place for future collections. All I'd have to do is keep the QT hypo tanks running all the time, maybe with one hardy specimen (a killifish, for example) to keep the tank's biological filtration up to speed.

[Chasmodes]

Last night, I dropped the sg from 1.015 to 1.010. The fish behavior changed big time in many ways. First, all of the blennies and gobies went into hiding, including one blenny that spent the night against the glass at the filter intake. All of the other blennies hid in oyster shells. The skilletfish either hid or stuck to the glass, not much different than before. The killifish pretty much behaved the same and even kept feeding.

I think that it had an immediate effect on the parasites, maybe not killing them, but agitating them because all of the fish scratched even more than before (and that was a lot of scratching before).

This morning, nothing changed, all of the fish still hiding and the killies doing the same thing. I was a bit concerned about dropping it too fast that I might have hurt the fish. So, this morning, I tried to feed them thinking that if they perked up and ate, all should be OK, and if not...not sure what I'd do.

So, I fed them a block of frozen mysid shrimp. All of the fish perked up and ate, and many of them took the food right from my hand. They foraged a bit and then they went back to hiding.

The grass shrimp seem unaffected.

So, I'll continue at this sg for a week and I might drop it one more point if all goes well.

[Michael Hoaster]

It sounds like you may have shocked them a bit, with the rapid drop in SG. Luckily, going down is much easier on them than going up. Lower salinity actually makes it easier for them to osmoregulate. Bringing them back up should be done much slower for safety. Good luck!

[Chasmodes]

It sounds like you may have shocked them a bit, with the rapid drop in SG. Luckily, going down is much easier on them than going up. Lower salinity actually makes it easier for them to osmoregulate. Bringing them back up should be done much slower for safety. Good luck!

Yeah, that's probably what happened. I did it over the course of 4 hours per the instructions of what I read, but looking back, should have done it a little slower. I stopped at 1.010. I went back and re-read the article, and it says to go as low as 1.008. I may do that, but over the course of a few days after a week of them getting used to this level.

You're right, bringing it back up should be over the course of several days. I was so happy to see them come up and eat though!

[Chasmodes]

Also, their behavior may explain why I had a hard time catching blennies at one of my spots where I found plenty of them a week earlier (and a week later). We had a lot of rain that week. I always thought that they just went to deeper water (followed the salt wedge), but I bet that all they do is hunker down in their oyster shells or other cover.

[Chasmodes]

Well, while attempting hyposalinity treatment in my 20g high, I successfully killed off...

...two skilletfish and all of my blennies. The last skilletfish may or may not be alive. There are at least three gobies still alive, not sure of the other two. The mummichogs are both doing well, as they are the only fish that are feeding. My guess is that the gobies and the remaining skilletfish won't make it.

The symptoms were, especially with the blennies, that they stopped eating, were swimming constantly against the glass trying to stay at the surface, breathing heavily, eyes were sunken in, and they kind of wasted away. I tried to spot feed them and it worked for a bit, but then they stopped trying to eat even then. It was as if they were blind.

I performed water changes to keep the ammonia and nitrite down...not sure what happened. Maybe dropping the SG too fast caused osmotic shock, or perhaps there was an inadvertent drastic change in pH that I didn't know about. I didn't test for that, but that might explain a lot. Anyway, I'm bummed out big time.

In an attempt to save them, I started the slow process of raising the sg again, but ran out of time. I'm only up from 1.010 to 1.011 now. I should have studied a bit more and may have prevented this from happening.

The 20g long is doing very well, no signs of parasites, although I suspect that they're in there.

I really didn't want to even post about this, but perhaps someone will learn from my mistakes too. Therefore, I have no choice but to learn from my mistakes and move on with my project. I assumed way too much. I couldn't stand to see them scratching so much as they seemed like they were suffering. In retrospect, they were much happier prior to my treatment attempt. I've done more research on this treatment method since, and if I attempt it again later, will follow those protocols closely.

Perhaps the TTM method was the best choice after all. My only reservation on doing that was how to catch all of the fish and get them out of all those hiding spots...not easy at all.

[Michael Hoaster]

Sorry to hear of your losses. Obviously, I feel your pain. We were in the same situation, not being able to catch all our fish, which limits what we can do, disease-wise.

It really does suck to confess to fish deaths, here on RC. I've done it a lot lately. Thankfully, most folks are very supportive. Who among us has NOT killed fish?

Of course the key is to learn from it. How will I prevent this in the future? For me, it will be strict quarantine, with bleach sterilization between treatments, so nothing passes from one to the next.

I think it also helps to focus on what went right. Although it's not exactly a huge victory, I am very happy I managed to save one gramma.

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael. You are 100% correct. We've all lost fish, and it sucks to bring it up on forums like this. I guess what bothers me the most this time (compared to other times that I personally lost fish) is that it was a direct result of something that I did.

I know that the fish had parasites, but I don't think that was what caused their deaths. But, I also knew that if I did nothing, they'd eventually die from parasitism.

My lesson learned here is twofold, put quarantine procedures in place for the future (TTM method implementation perhaps), and also be much more careful when I implement a hypo treatment (if I go that route), and to make sure that I check multiple sources for how-to info and also look for posts about results (successes and failures), to cut that learning curve and perhaps save my fishes lives.

[Chasmodes]

oh, and it really sucks because I loved those fish, and miss them already. I feel like I did them wrong even though I know that my intentions were good. I owe it to my other tank inhabitants and also any future fish that I collect to do a better job.

[McPuff]

oh, and it really sucks because I loved those fish, and miss them already. I feel like I did them wrong even though I know that my intentions were good. I owe it to my other tank inhabitants and also any future fish that I collect to do a better job.

To me, this is the hardest part. I feel badly for the fish when I have one that dies, regardless if it is my own fault. Sorry that you had those issues. You will come out better for it I'm sure. Life's a garden... dig it. :0)

[Chasmodes]

Thanks McPuff.

I lost another skilletfish. The gobies aren't eating and I expect them to die. Other than not eating, they're behavior is a lot more normal than the other fish that passed away so maybe they'll pull through. The parameters look good, nitrates and ammonia zero, ph is OK, and the sg is 1.012. I'll raise it a point over the next two days.

What is weird to me is that the sudden drop in salinity to 1.010 from 1.016 that I did is far less drastic than some of the hypo treatment techniques that I've been reading about, specifically dropping wild caught marine fish directly into a QT tank at 1.008 sg. So, I don't think that caused the problem, but perhaps it was a pH issue, or maybe I waited too long and the disease was further along than I thought. They were scratching a lot, all of them.

Regarding hypo treatment, I've oversimplified a bit, there are lots of things other than sg to consider when doing it, and I wasn't aware of all that. So, this still could have been my fault. I just need to be much more careful next time. I think that I felt desperate to help them, and that actually was worse than if I had been more patient and read up a bit more about it.

My other tank is doing very well, no signs of scratching behavior. I haven't changed the sg on that tank. I have some cyanobacterial bloom still to deal with, but no biggie.

[Chasmodes]

Emotional roller coaster ---> going into one room and working on and viewing the tank of death, then, heading into the other room to feed the tank that is thriving. This is the preferable order, because the 20g long is such a fun tank to watch and lift up my spirits.

In the 20g long, most of these fish respond to hand feeding. However, they're much more spooky than the adult fish were, especially after feeding. I kind of like that because they tend to behave and forage as they normally would in the wild. It's fun to watch the fish move in and out of the oyster cultches, forage, investigate, spar over temporary territory, establish or maintain the pecking order, and even try to figure out where the crabs are. I also found it difficult to count the numbers of each species as they're always moving in and out of hiding spots. A blenny can literally disappear into a hole in the structure on the right side of the tank and move nearly undetected through that structure and other bottom cover to the other side of the tank. Never a dull moment with this tank.

My only challenge with this tank is the cyano and keeping macros alive. In the death tank, the Ulva and other macro are doing fairly well. A comparison, in the 20g long, Ulva died off in about a month. In the 20g high tank of death, the Ulva has had very little die off and I collected a lot of it.

I really thought long and hard about the future of this project, how to be more careful, and what I can improve on. Until then, keep up on my water changes and test often.

Another goby died in the death tank. Three left, I think. The two killifish are fine. I noticed that one of the mud crabs survived, as did many of the shrimp.

[Michael Hoaster]

I don't think your rapid salinity drop killed your fish. I think it was the ICK. I remember thinking when you first mentioned the scratching, that it starts out so slowly that it tricks you into thinking that they'll be fine. That's what happened to me! In the confines of aquariums, ICK grows exponentially, hence the slow start then rapid devastation.

One thing I've learned from both of our experiences is that no fish is bullet-proof.

I look forward to more back-patting posts and less consoling ones! Onward and upward!

[Chasmodes]

Thanks Michael.

...makes sense. I think my way forward is to gradually reduce the salinity and finish the hypo treatment, but do it more carefully. I want the parasites eradicated. Plus, I want the oyster cultches and anything that survives to move to the big tank parasite free.