500G (84X48X30)- NOW REAL !
 

Finally, it looks like my 500g dream will become a realilty. The last time I got a chance to put one together this size was the Penn State Aquarium. That was 6 years ago. Now here is my chance to do it home (obviously at a much lower budget :( So, I am planning this to reuse what I currently have and keep the expenses lower.

I have been following threads on this forum and there are some great ideas and experiences with large tanks that I would sure love to tap into to make sure this works out like it should. I doubt I will be getting a larger tank again for a long time. The last 180G has been with me for 10 years.

So here is what I have planned so far.

TANK

500gal (84x48x30) Diamante Low iron glass front.

Decieding on builder for it. Am in talks with Will at Aquarium Obsessed.

Here is a picture of the design I have come up with. I like the external overflow box.. have had it on my current tank for the last 10 years and love it. This will be an improvement of my current design.

I also envision the overflow box to serve as a fish holding tank to get fish eating and healthy before being thrown into the reef.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...-pics/tank.jpg

The tank is drilled with 2X2" bulkheads in the overflow box for drains and 2X2" bulheads for closed loop circulation.


PUMPS

2XSequence Dart (160w) for the 2 closed loops.

A pump for circulation through sump. Have not decieded what I want there... I am not a big fan of a lot of water flowing through the sump. So it may just be a reasonable priced and reliable 1000GPH pump

FLOW

Along with the 2 closed loops.. additional flow will be provided by 2 to 4 Vortech prop pumps.

LIGHTING

Here I am totally clueless :lol:

I am going to go with 3 X Lumenarc III Reflectors with 400W mogul lamps. Plan is setup the lights and aquascape around it. Want to use the exisiting ballasts so I do not incur any additional cost. I may even experiment with 250W using the same reflector setup.

Need to build myself a frame to hold the lights. I am looking for slotted aluminum angle but have not found any. I keep finding slotted steel but I think that will rust eventually.

I do not plan on using any FL lighting.. have not used actinics in over 5 years and can do without it. Save myself some in electrial and lamp replacement costs.


REACTORS

I already have a dual chamber DIY CA Reactor and Ecotech Kalk Reactor on my 180G that I hope will suffice. else it will be back to DIY new reactors.


SKIMMER

I have a 5ft tall DIY ETS that I converted to a Becket injector that hopefully will be enough. Its driven by a Iwaki 55.


CHILLER

I just bought a 1 HP chiller, that I will install in the garage.


OZONIZER

use the current 200 mg unit that I am using

ELECTRICALS

Just finished putting in 3 20AMP circuits.. one dedicated to the chiller and the other 2 for the tank. I may pull in another circuit for the tank.


STAND

Still decieding wehter I should go with powder coated steel stand vs wood. The tank is in the wall so aesthetics are not an issue, but accessability under the tank is important.

I am looking for designs of steel stands that will support this size tank and maximize the accessibility.

I'll post some pictures later of where the tank is going in.. and some of the constraints I have to work with.

Wish me luck with this project... and I appreciate any help you guys can provide.

sanjay.

SWEET. 4 ft front to back!

Powdercoated steel Sanjay. They can make 'em very open without a lot of supports in between.

I'm using 3 LAIIIs on a 10x3 footprint tank and it seems fine.

Cool!!!!! Eductors on the return from the sump possibly?

Yeah... eductors either on return or on the closed loop. Right now I have a sea swirl on the return, and I may just go with that that on the return and use the eductors on the closed loop.

Any experiences with using eductors on Dart pumps ?

Also, any one have any experience with these mazzei eductors.. they look like they will take less space.

http://www.mazzei.net/nozzles_turbomixer.htm

sanjay.

looks sweet Sanjay. Haven't chatted with you since MACNA, sounds like you have been busy.

I am currently working on mine, same dimensions, except my overflow box is on one of the narrow sides due to space issues, but I like the box that you have skimming the entire surface.

I too went with an external box with a 12 x 12 dimension and I would seriusly think about widening the box to allow movement within it. Although you are probably more nimble than I. :-)

Also, I wish I went with a shorter box to give me more space in the back since I have my overflows for the closed loops under the box.

I agree on the flow through the sump and am planning to use a Barracuda and divert some of the water to a skimmer, and also a secondary flow area so I can attach anything from carbon, rowaphos or anything. This also serves the purpose to lower the flow in the sump while minimizing the amount of pumps/powerheads, etc being used. I also T off the line to use a free flow through the calcium reactor.

The plan is to use 4x hammerheads for closed loops throughout the tank. Thought about eductors, just not sure I want that long of a device sticking in my tank. Although, the flow features with less power sure are attractive.

Kip

Re: 500G (84X48X30)- In the works to become real
 

Hey Photon Man,
They make a fiberglass kindorf which could be used to make up a framework for holding the lights. I used Kindorf above the reef here and love it, you can put an insert within the channel and that allows you to slide the fixtures where you want them at the moment.

With the width of your tank, I would minimize the light hitting the back wall, that will give a great deal of added depth perception to the tank, and it would be easier to hide some of the eductors, etc.

If you frame out the tank so you can hide some of the piping on the front corner sides, that will also help, instead of having the front wall framing right at the tank edge. It also makes you look into the tank vs. having the side glass walls right there in your face.

As far as the stand, I would go with a Greg Schiemer special (page 55 of TRA3) and do all the good prep work and epoxy painting of some steel I beams and be done with it. You can't beat the access and cost. From what I hear, in regular buildings, you can span some pretty impressive distances with steel I beams... and you're in the big leagues now.

I'd be a bit concerned about just an Iwaki 55 on your skimmer unless you're going to have other means of exporting nutrients.
Joe

Re: Re: 500G (84X48X30)- In the works to become real
 

Ditto that. We must have been reading the post and coming to the same conclusion at the same time, Joe.

Congrats and good luck on this aquarium, Sanjay.

Joe:

I searched for Kindorf on the web, came up with this catalog that has all Kindorf products. The non metallic kindorf is listed as being polyester or vinylester.

http://www.texasreps.com/catalog/Sup...GS/Kindorf.pdf

were you suggesting hanging the lights from these channels ? I was thinking more on the lines of making a frame and sitting the lumenarcs on the frame. Like we did on the penn state tank.

Good suggestion on improving the depth perception on the tank, by keeping the lights off the back wall. I did not think about that.

maybe I'll fame the opening to be 6ft instead of the 7ft.

I have been thinking about making a recirulating DIY needle wheel skimmer... may be time to get more serious about it.

Thanks.. keep the suggestions comming.

sanjay.

For mounting the lights, I know you're height challenged in your basement, so my thoughts were to be able to slide your fixtures out of the way vs. lifting them.
I do like the frame set up at Penn State, so maybe you could make that as well and have it slide out of the way. They also make the angle iron out of fiberglass, which I use all the time. Just drill some holes, bolt it together and you're done with no rust.

Not lighting the back wall has worked well for me, even on small glass tanks and big displays. If your rockwork doesn't go to the back wall, that will help with the look as well and allows for total water flow around the entire reef/ rockwork. Your fish will enjoy it as well.

You'll never regret having at least 6" of space to hide things in the front corners of your tank. It also, I believe, makes the display a lot nicer as you're looking into the display and it won't take away from the perceived tank size. Its like having a nice photo well matted in a frame, vs. just having the picture in a frame.
Oh and my consulting fee will be Penn State Creamery ice cream!:)
Joe

Re: 500G (84X48X30)- In the works to become real
 

Congratulations on the new tank though. You are going to love the dimensions.

Great idea on the holes in the overflow box for the close loops. I am assuming you are going to bring the plumbing in from above the tank and into the back wall sort of like the Deltec tank at the last MACNA right? That is a great idea and something I wished I had done myself. Hindsight is 20/20 though.

I would seriously consider using a iwaki 100 or similar to pus 2 eductors on each end as the returns. The water going through the sump will be in the order of 1200-1400 GPH total, but the flow results inside the tank will be insane with the 4 eductors. The darts will not work for the eductors as they are not pressure rated. A local friend wanted to do the same despite me telling him about it. 3 days later he took them down and replaced them for an iwaki 70. The difference was night and day.

I second what others have said about the skimmer's capacity for the system. I realize you are not wanting to spend more money than you have to, but this will definately be an area, IMHO, that you will have to step it up. Likely considerably. There are many many DIY skimmer designs floating around here in RC from the last 6 months alone. That ranges from air stone skimmers, to beckets, to recirculating needdle wheels. You can also just go down the road and check Paletta's skimmer or go to Doug's house and check one of those there. Alternatively and no worse or better, there are other brands like H&S, etc.

Best of luck with your new tank. If there is anything I can help you with, just let me know. Since I've had just about every single piece of equipment fail in my tank in the last year, at least I can surely point you to WHAT NOT to do:lol: :lol: :lol:

Sanjay, on the subject of keeping running costs down and being reasonable with equipment costs--try and make the system open and well ventilated to avoid the chiller. Right now over my 10x3x2 tank I've got 3 LAIIIs and the only submerged pumps are the wavebox (which is cute, but certainly NOT a necessity). I have a running temp of like 77 with my heater on A LOT. I haven't even bothered to complete the plumbing for the chiller. I imagine with some judicious plumbing and pump selection you'll be able to minimize your need for the chiller.

As for skimmers--I'm the last person to ask, but yeah I think you oughta step that sucker up. There are obviously a lot of ways to skin that cat, but at the minimum use a larger pump on the beckett. An iwaki 55 IME, can't drive a becket up a 5ft foam column IMO.

Sanjay- you got PM

Very nice Sanjay, I have a 600gal (96x48x30) coming next wk I hope... I will be using 4x L3 reflectors with 250w bulbs... I think you would be fine with 3x L3's with 400w...

I am using a Dart as my return as I didn't want alot of flow in my sump as well... I think the 2x Darts for your CLs will work nicely...

As for your stand I would go with the powder coated tube steel if you want to use alot of usable room under the tank... I built my stand from wood and yet don't regret it, I do know next time I will be going with powder coated steel...

I went to Lowes and found angled aluminum (non slotted) that I will be using to build my light rack... I am going to connect the pieces with rivets...

Re: Re: 500G (84X48X30)- In the works to become real
 

PhoMan,
My old tank at home had some 4" pvc skimmers that utilized the surface overflow water as the source water, and I drove them with airstones which was incredibly efficient from an energy standpoint, so perhaps keep your exisiting skimmer and put something like that on your overflows to the sump to get more skimming. I had used the Tetra Luft pumps, which I think are now sold by Coralife.
Gravity is your friend... well atleast on this one.
Joe

Sanjay,

There are enough damn doctors posting on this thread to staff a hospital:cool: .

Your tank will be really SWEET! The external overflows will be really nice, I wish that I could have had Oceanic put them on my tank.


I also concur with the skimmer flow; nuff said.

I too used angled iron to assemble a light rack. I hung it using a standard bike rack (detailed in my thread). I love the construction of the rack. It was cheap and easy to assemble.

Depending on what you plan to do with the back of the tank, you could consider fading colors from top to bottom. The top is bright blue while the bottom fades to darker tones. I saw this on the display tank at That Fish Place. It gave it a really cool aesthetic. If you use corregated plastic velco'd to the back, any art student at the college could paint a fade off of the primary color.

The two closed loops will be really nice!!

Well, I bet you won't have much trouble stocking this will you? LOL

Good luck!

Thanks for all the input.

For the stand.. I am leaning towards the Schiemer type stand with the block and H beam. I had them do something similar at the Penn State tank.. but I never paid attention to the details of how it was done. I got some good instructions from Greg. I'll sketch it up and post here.. since I am sure I will need some structural and construction advice.

I am going to plan things so I do not need a chiller.. but I am hooking it up as a contigency for the summer. I have gone without a chiller for the last 10 years.. but have paid the price those few days in summer.

I also ordered the Airiva HE-100 heat reecovery ventilator for the basement to address the humidity problems that I am sure I will run into. In case anyone is looking for it.. here is where I found the best price for it. http://pages.zdnet.com/vandykr/id42.html

Here is a picture of the electrical panel that was wired in last week. I have 2 X20 amp circuits feeding into it, and have the timers built into the setup. I know this will not be enough so there will be one more circuit put in. I want to put in some receptacles that are not close together.. so this way using those transformer plugs will not block adjacent receptacles from being used. Any suggestions here, on what would address the problem of big chunky transformer plugs blocking adjacent receptacles.



http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...al-outlets.gif

sanjay.

just use those little standoff plug things for the transformers...

That would be true if any of you were REAL doctors:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: JK:D

Sanjay:

I see the picture yuo posted now. It was not showing yesterday. I do have a question: is the overflow going to be supported with something from below? That seems to be a huge amount of force and weight just hanging there.

I like your electrical panel. Very neat. If you did not already place it far from the tank and sump, I would built a small acrylic box to fit over it and screw it to the wall to prevent salt creep, splashing, humidity, and corrosion from setting in. You can leave gaps in the bottom of it to allow for the cables to come out.

I was always intrigued by Schiemer's stand. Paletta has the same in his new tank also. Very functional and leaves a ton of open room on the bottom.

Can we get some links or pics for those who have not seen ??

I have eductors on my sequence it is the 3000 or 3200 something not the dart, a grey all over one. I bought it off andy at mrc. it seems to work crazy with two eductors. I am not sure if it is pressure rated but it can handle more head than the dart. maybe it is an option? It really mixes up my 190.

Ok.. here is the famous "Schiemer Stand". I have permission to post the pictures and the notes that Greg sent me.

ÃÂ* I used 8â€Â� x 15â€Â� cinder blocks, which I thought were a good compromise. I used rough exterior blocks, which are somewhat decorative. They also make blocks that are pre-colored, which are terrific, but I decided to paint mine. The paint has held up very well. I used Rustoleum acrylic paint. Great stuff!

ÃÂ* I did all the work myself. It couldn’t be easier. I had never done anything like it before. I simply stacked the blocks and used masonry cement between them. I leveled them at each level. I filled the blocks with concrete and metal rods later. This is probably overkill, but I wanted a really solid wall.

ÃÂ* The beam is a 4-inch H-beam, which is 4 inches along the top and bottom. It’s made of steel. I-beams differ in that one side is shorter than the other. I bought a 20 foot piece at a welding place and they cut it in half for me.

ÃÂ* I used blocks of wood along the ends as additional support; although I don’t think it was necessary.

ÃÂ* I placed a ½â€Â� piece of plywood on the top of the beams. If I had to do it over again, I’d use ¾â€Â� plywood. I also placed 2x4’s from side to side along the length for additional support. They fit inside the H-beam. Again, I don’t think they’re doing anything, but someone had suggested it and I figured it couldn’t hurt.

ÃÂ* I placed bolts in the tops of the cinderblocks after I filled them with concrete. I used these bolts to attach the H-beams. I drilled corresponding holes in the H-beams to accommodate the bolts. These were used to prevent the H-beams from slipping. I also used masonry cement under the H-beams to fine-tune the leveling.

ÃÂ* There are no plates on top of the H-beams. I don’t see any reason for it.

ÃÂ* I used Rustoleoum acrylic (water-based) paint to paint the wood, blocks and beams. In 8 years, it hasn’t chipped, peeled or rusted through on any surface. I’ve even scrubbed the blocks on occasion to clean them of dust and salt creep.

ÃÂ* I wouldn’t change much if I had to do it over again. I’d probably buy pre-colored exterior cinder-blocks and use pressure-treated ¾â€Â� plywood to cover the surface. I might also put a sheet of Styrofoam on top of the plywood. Oh, and I’d make the stand a little wider than the tank and leave a 4 inch or so lip along the back. This makes a great step stool as well as a place to mount PVC pipe. I’d leave the front and sides flush with the tank. Now I have to put my foot inside the H-beam to look over the tank and it’s not very supportive.

ÃÂ* By the way, don’t forget to factor in the H-beam when configuring any holes in the bottom of the tank for an overflow box. I wound up making the holes out of the back of the overflow box instead of the bottom. This arrangement has worked great for me, but it’s something to ponder before starting the cutting, drilling and building process.


http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...ank_Stand1.jpg

http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...ank_Stand2.jpg

http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...ank_Stand3.jpg

sanjay.

Oh, I should add that I attached the plywood to the top of the H-beams with construction adhesive (e.g., Liquid Nails)

Greg

Also doubles as a fall out shelter:)

If I were doing a large tank at home, I'd do the stand this way without question.
Joe

Oh, and I placed a piece of plastic sheeting between the H-beams and the blocks so that the metal would not contact the concrete, which might encourage corrosion. I did the same thing between the blocks and ceramic tile floor. I wasn't worried about corrosion here, but I wanted to be able to remove the concrete wall at some point without damaging the floor. I trimmed the plastic sheeting after the concrete dried.

It's been 8 years and it's still standing. :)

Greg

Very nice... Wish I would have seen this before I built my wooden stand...

GSchiemer, if you don't mind me asking about how much did you put into this stand back in 97 (mainly the 20ft piece of 4-inch H-beam) ?? What size tank is on this stand, your 500gal ??

no ibeam on the sides?

What a great idea for a stand! Thanks for sharing.

OK.. contemplating more on the stand.. here is kind of what I am thinking.

the wall is made from block 8" wide and 48" long. Will find the right blocks to make it. The height will be 24".

The steel H beams to be used are W6X9. This has a flange of 3.94" and height of 5.9".

Place a 3/4" plywood sheet + styrofoam sheet on it.

Here is what it would look like.

http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...tank/stand.jpg

I love that stand idea, I had never seen it before. It may be the perfect solution for me in my sump room.

Sounds like another great project Sanjay.

Has this been addressed? Is there any support for the sides besides the plywood and intermittent beam?

It is a really cool look although it is not painted. They use a new background called OceanVision

http://www.thatpetplace.com/Products.../Itemdy00.aspx

Then they have a light (VHO actinic I believe) that is located behind the tank up at the top which backlights the background. The OceanVision background glows at the point of the bulb and fades out to dark blue. It is a really cool look and I'd like to do that to my next tank. It would look even better if you can avoid having any tank lighting hit the back pane.

Sanjay,

Looks like a good start! I like Joe's idea of drywalling past the front corners to hide some front end plumbing...Im wondering if it makes it more difficult the clean that area or does it even matter because you wont see it :)

Definitely take some photos of that beast of a stand when its completed.

Good Luck,
billpa

I have some concerns with the design although it has been proven. Steel is strong but it still sags to some degree. Also there is the question of the sides not being supported. As long as those issues are negligible than go ahead.

In my opinion it seems that wood is far cheaper and easier, but must be braced far more often.

It seems that with a cross piece of matching H beam along the blocks (these could be welded level with the long beams) and steel or wood posts in the center all concerns could be reconed with. The atractive part is the wide open space ubderneath, even if you add some sort of middle posts for the beams it will be wide open compared to other designs.

Sanjay,

It looks great! There was some mention of center and side beams; these are COMPLETELY unnecessary and defeat the purpose of the design. You can support two Sherman Tanks with that stand! Regarding "sag," this is NOT a concern over a 7 foot span with beams of that size. You can use 2x4's or 2x6's on end as cross-beams between the H-beams for additional support, but it's probably unnecessary because you're employing 3 beams in the design.

Greg

I'd also consider going a little taller than 24" for the stand height. My blocks are 32" tall. Think about 28" as a minimum height. My last aquarium was lower to the ground and I hated bending over to look into it and to work on it. It actually caused back pain after a while in that position! :)

Greg

I don't doubt that the beams are strong, but I still wonder about the sides. Isn't it preferred to have all the edges of the tank evenly supported?

I'm not knocking the stand, I think it's brilliant, I'm just curious.

You might want to talk to Fred (you know Fred) who built that stand for me for the 600 gallon tank project that I worked on last year. He built a very strong stand that there is no way that tank is moving. I know Ron (saltwater heaven) is selling his stand for 600 (cabentry quality) for cheap but is not your tank's size. Congrat and let me know if you need anything.

I'd only be concerned if there were no beam in the middle. Since Sanjay plans to employ 3 beams and they're spaced fairly close together, he'll have more than enough support at the ends. And don't forget the 3/4" plywood that serves to distribute the weight. I used two beams in my construction so I added blocks of wood between the base of the stand and tops of the concrete wall as additional support at each end.

Greg

Greg:

What's a Sherman tank??

serious?

http://nora.embl-heidelberg.de/album...each.sized.jpg

That link was perfect and gave me a big laugh. :) It actually looks like the "tank" is sitting on a stand. :)

Greg

Here is a picture of how the ends are supported in Greg's tank. I am not sure he even needed to do this.

In my setup the maximun span of tank that will not be sitting directly on the I beam will be 20 ".

http://www.personal.psu.edu/sbj4/aqu...ank_Stand5.jpg

sanjay.

WWII era tank. Frequently outgunned by the German equivalents. Workhorse in the US army through the Korean War

Nice pix by tsalter.

Course don't really know if Alberto was serious or not.

That is a SWEET solid stand design.

looks good to me.

So we have a SHERMAN TANK on a SCHIEMER STAND:D :D

I am sure Alberto knows women who are built like Sherman tanks:lol: :lol:

sanjay.

I guess the biggest question which hasn't been asked yet is:

"Does the Mrs. know about this yet?!" :)

Hijack!

I hope you don't mind Sanjay. but you or Greg may know the answer. I started in the Reef years ago at one time Larry Jackson was the board moderator of Compuserve Reef section. I was wondering if anyone knows where he hang out now? How is he and his wife Laura? Just wondering.

He was a Lot of help when I first started in this hobby and haven't seen him in years

Thanks,

In true Clintonesque manner I have been following the "don't ask don't tell" philosophy.:D :D :D


Once the parts started showing up on the credit card and the strange guy comming in to work on the electricals and stuff started showing up.. the cat was out of the bag...it was hard to hide.

There is a considerably reduced reduced level of resistance and dissapproval.


I blamed it on your bad influence.

sanjay.

ermmm... not the skimer, not the light, but this is the bigest problem of all us, the reefers :).
Don't give up :),
I'm subsribed now to the project :).

Yeah, when I told her you should completely take over the guest room and literally fill it with one truly monster tank, all of a sudden your tank proposal wasn't looking so bad... we reefers gotta stick together and if I have to take a hit now and then, I'll take one for the team.
On your overflow box, I would consider putting in some triangular support braces underneath it (from the bottom of the box to the tank wall, someone had brought it up as a concern) and I like Greg's idea of extending the platform past the width of the tank in the back for standing on.
Joe