What is everything I need to buy to make this happen?

ZLAT · 03/05/2014, 09:21 PM

I would love to start a 50-55 gallon reef tank containing one of each:
Duncan Coral
Green Mandarin
Starry Blenny
Convict Blenny/Engineer Goby
Red Velvet Wrasse
Tridacna Derasa Clam

Could this combination of fish peacefully co-exist in this size of tank? Also, what would be the necessary equipment/cost for a reef aquarium like this? Waiting on your expert opinion folks, I figured this would be the forum to go to! Brand new at this and seeking experienced advice. Thanks for your time

TWISTER702 · 03/05/2014, 09:48 PM

Don't take this the wrong way and im not trying to be rude, but if this is your first tank and you are new to the hobby how much research have you done about the hobby. The best advice I could give you is do a month or two of reading and under stand this hobby before you just up and jump in.

here is a article I put together for our guys in our reef club

So You Want To Start A Saltwater Tank Guide

I figured we needed a topic to help the new guys and gals that are thinking about getting into the saltwater hobby, So here we go, Oh you may want to grab a cold beer or coke or maybe a glass of tea of coffee for this if you're going to read it.

Hopefully this thread can help guide you through the process and tell you where corners can be cut and where they can't. I do not claim to know everything and this is just the basics that works for me and many more. Please if anyone have some input please add it to help the new guys and gals out.

So You Want a Saltwater Tank..

Who could blame you? For many aquarists, the saltwater aquarium is the highest level to the hobby, Owning a reef tank can be a very enjoyable experience. It is a great hobby and provides hours of fun. Watching all of the life in a reef tank can be calm and relaxing. However, with the dream comes a lot of responsibility. Careful planning, knowledge and patience are the keys to beginning and maintaining a successful marine aquarium. These FAQ’s are designed to help get your basic questions answered.

PLAN IT OUT.

Don't rush into anything! Take your time, think things through and plan ahead. Do you want a full reef tank? Will fish only be ok? or FOWLR fish only with live rock. One thing you will learn very quickly is that there is a ton of information out on the web with regard to setting up reef tanks. My advices, before you commit to this hobby, is to read, read and read some more. There are lots of great forums out there with many people willing to help out the new hobbyist. These people are a great resource. My personal favorite is www.reefcentral.com along with www.lvmas.com Along with many many more good sites
Next, visit you local fish stores A LOT. Before you buy anything go talk to them at the store. Be careful, some places will just try and sell you stuff. You need to find the person at the store that is genuinely there to help. avoid petco or petsmart for information cause they are there to sell not help.

Once you have done this and feel like you know how you want to proceed, ask yourself one last time "am I able to commit myself to this"? One thing we have learned, is that with proper planning etc this hobby isn't as difficult as it is often made out to be, however, for the first six months it will be time consuming. Until you get everything dialed in and your tank stabilizes, you're going to be spending a lot of time working on the tank. If you have come this far you're aware of the financial cost involved but many people don't talk about the time devoted to the tank in the early days. We are talking about providing a living habitat for fish, corals and other invertebrates. You have to be willing to commit your time to their care. In the early days the learning curve is steep, but, if you plan, take your time and get on one of the many great forums you can shorten the curve considerably.
Where do you start?

Well, one place to begin would be to decide on what type of marine tank you are wanting to keep. To make choosing easy, there are three basic categories of marine aquarium:

FISH ONLY (FO): As the name implies, this category utilizes a simple tank configuration and the fish that are suitable for the space you can provide. Also, the FO tank is usually the least expensive to setup and maintain.

FISH ONLY WITH LIVEROCK (FOWLR): In this category, we have the added benefit (and expense) of live rock to supplement the biological filtration and general aesthetics of a Fish Only system. The FOWLR setup is ideal for most beginning saltwater aquarists, as it allows for a more natural environment for the animals in your care and help in maintaining water quality through the addition of beneficial bacteria's and critters that colonize live rock. I think anyone that is wanting to get into the reef tanks should start here to get use to controlling there water parameters and how to care for fish, At least the first six months or so into the hobby and this way it gives your tank time to mature and settled in.
Live rock sales for about $3.00 a lb to $12.00 a lb

REEF: This category refers to a marine aquarium that contains corals, live rock and other coral reef related animals such as clams. Resign and prepare yourself to put forth plenty of cash to setup and maintain this type of aquarium. Lighting requirements on a Reef setup are higher (read “more expensive”) and closer attention to water quality is absolutely necessary to have long term success.
If all possible try and go with a reef ready tank, Meaning it is drilled with internal overflow box you will have way less problems with this type of tank.
Can you start with a FO tank and then work your way up to a Reef tank later?

Yes, you can. Many people choose to ease into Reef keeping by first maintaining a FO or FOWLR aquarium. Whether it’s a need to learn about caring for a saltwater aquarium without the added responsibility of keeping corals or purely a financial consideration, you have the opportunity to upgrade as your skill and/or finances allow.

What kind of equipment will you need?

For a basic saltwater setup it’s really not much different from a freshwater setup. You’ll need your tank, a stable aquarium stand, adequate filtration in the form of either a Hang On Back (HOB) or canister filter Not recommended but works, I would recommend a sump if all possible, power heads to create adequate current, water test kits if you choose to monitor yourself rather than taking samples to your favorite shop and a heater to keep the aquarium's water temperature constant. Things that are specific to keeping a saltwater tank would be salt mix, a Atc hand held Refractometer hydrometer (to measure your salinity levels), and a protein skimmer to help with the removal of excess organic matter in the water column.

What size tank should you get?

In saltwater, bigger is generally better. Not just because bigger tanks are a lot of fun to play with, but because with bigger tanks you have more room for error. Something as simple as water evaporation can have catastrophic effects on a smaller aquarium, but will be more easily rectified without serious repercussions in an aquarium with more water volume. For this reason, a beginning saltwater aquarist would do well to err on the side of caution and purchase the largest tank they can afford to begin their new hobby. Something in the neighborhood of 55 gallons would definitely be a good starting point.

Can a small saltwater tank be successfully maintained?

Yes it can, and a lot of people here at lvmas manage quite well with smaller saltwater aquariums. These small saltwater aquariums, or “nanos” as they are commonly called, are generally no larger than 20 gallons and they provide a lot of enjoyment to the people that choose to keep them. BUT, and isn’t there always a “but”, they require a level of care and knowledge that is more advanced in order to keep the balance of the tank within acceptable levels. If you do not possess the dedication to remain vigilant with your water tests and maintenance routines, this type of tank setup is not for you.

What is the difference between Cured Live rock and Uncured Live rock and Base rock?

Cured live rock is live rock that has been allowed to sit in saltwater with strong filtration and water movement so that the dead organic matter has been removed. Once live rock has been cured, you should experience very little trouble with ammonia spikes when added to your existing marine setup. Be aware however that even cured live rock can cause a small ammonia spike when added to your existing aquarium. For this reason, try to limit the amount of cured live rock to around 10lbs (or less if working with a smaller water volume) at a time if adding to an aquarium that is currently housing fish or invertebrates.

Uncured live rock is live rock that has been harvested and shipped to the distributor with the dead organic matter still present. Unless your marine setup is empty of animals and corals, uncured live rock should not be added to your setup. The resulting ammonia spike and cycle uncured live rock will cause can have detrimental effects on your tank's inhabitants.
Base rock is Base rock is any rock that can be used in your saltwater setup to supplement live rock. When beginning a saltwater aquarium, some people choose to use base rock to build up their rock structures and then will add their live rock into their aquascaping structure to save $$$$$$. The beneficial bacteria, small invertebrates, worms and other critters that come with live rock will eventually migrate from the live rock and take up residence on the base rock, making it live rock as well. It takes time in order for this conversion to happen, but if searching for a cost effective solution for stocking your aquarium with an adequate amount of live rock, base rock can be useful.
How much live rock will you need?

Generally, one to two pounds of live rock per gallon of water is a very good way to decide on what you’ll need to buy. Will your aquarium fall apart if you don’t have 55lbs of live rock in a 55 gallon aquarium? No. This rule of thumb is just to give you an estimate on what would be the most beneficial. Any amount of live rock that you can add to your system will only make it better. Let’s be realistic, live rock is expensive, folks. If the most you can afford at once is 2 or 3 pounds, then pick out the best looking stuff you can find and enjoy it. Many people have to slowly build up their live rock amounts as their finances allow. So long as you are responsible in the way it is added to a marine tank that has been stocked with animals and critters, you should experience no ill effects from an ammonia spike. Never add uncured or base live rock to your tank without cycling it first.
Now that you have read all of that are you still wanting to start a saltwater tank? Great now let's get down to cost and see if you still feel the same way.
If you are a DIY kind of person you can same a good amount of $$$. Depending on what size tank you are wanting, Remember go as big as you can cause everyone I have seen in this hobby starts small and then it is not big enough and off to find a bigger tank. More $$$$

Let's use a 120 gallon tank as a example.

To be fair, equipment needs to be neither high end nor rock bottom clearance pricing. There are a number of ways to save money when making a big purchase. Group buys are popular, as well as buying used equipment from others that are upgrading or getting out of the hobby. What about the guy or gal that gets the itch to set up a saltwater system and just wants to get a realistic idea of what this may cost? That’s what this article will endeavor to answer.

Prices vary from store to store, and customized choices affect the sales ticket significantly. While there are a variety of sizes of tanks to pick from, for the purpose of this write up I’m going to recommend a good tank size for a person that is seriously interested in setting up a reef tank in their home: 120-gallons. The footprint of a 120-gallon tank is 4’ long x 2’ wide x 2’ tall. This body of water provides swimming space for fish and a nice front-to-back depth for creative aquascaping. Corals have room to grow into colonies, and an open area of sand is possible for invertebrates to traverse. This tank usually comes with a single or double internal overflow with two holes drilled for the drain line and the return plumbing.

The shopping list, This is just the beginning...

Now it’s time to make the list of necessary equipment and what it could cost to get started:
tank, stand and canopy $800 to $1200
Protein skimmer $200 - $1500
Sump & refugium $100 - $400
Return pump $60 - $450
Thermometer - $3
Test kits - 7 total: Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrate, Phosphate, Nitrite, Ammonia $120 - $150
Lighting - ballasts, reflectors, bulbs $450 - $650
T5 and LED light $125 - $1,400
In-tank flow - power heads/pumps $100 - $900
Controllers $150 to $700 depending what you want it to do or you could go with Timers $30 - $50
Heaters $20 - $80
Fans $10 - $75
Power strips $5 - $25
RO/DI system $100 - $300
PVC pipe and fittings $100
PH meter - kits are worthless $80
And a list of optional gear, which actually is necessary for responsible husbandry:
Calcium reactor $150 - $600
Phosban reactor $35 - $80
Quarantine tank $50 - $100
Aquarium controller $100 - $1500
Chiller $350 - $900
Additionally: Sand / Substrate $100 - $200
Rock $200 - $800
Salt $35 - $80
Mixing barrel $7 - $25
Hoses & pumps $15 - $50
Carbon / GFO / 2-part additives or ARM $40 - $80

This is a lot of money, Just do the math, With this list, livestock wasn’t even considered yet and that’s completely normal. Just like your own home, a lot of preparation was made before you could ever move in. It’s the same for the fish and corals we hope to keep - the tank needs to be set up correctly so your future reef can thrive. When it comes to choosing what gear to purchase, options abound and quality varies greatly. My recommendation is to purchase solid equipment with good warranties instead of cheaper products that will have to be replaced more quickly. Quality costs more, but lasts longer and often tends to do a better job long term.

Examples of quality are a judgment call, but it doesn't take much research online to get a sense of what has a decent reputation and what is complained about excessively. With aquariums, investigate how the tank looks overall, how long the warranty period is and what the manufacturer demands when honoring a claim. Is the glass cut and polished cleanly, and does the silicone look tidy or sloppy? With skimmers, is it made with cast or extruded material and what type of pump(s) does it use? With lighting, the choices in ballasts can be confusing, but essentially you need to know what type of bulb it will light, how big it is, does it make noise / hum, and how hot does it get? A variety of reflectors are available, some being better than others. Even bulb choices are key to reaping success.

Setting up a tank allows the hobbyist to choose a number of different products, I preferred to buy quality equipment rather than something cheaper to get by for now. That same mentality has served me well in this hobby, and has helped me avoid double purchasing to get the gear I really wanted. It may take a little longer, but in the long run I'm saving money. One more point that I never overlook: what will that item cost me in electricity consumption? Electricity never comes cheap, so every watt is considered and accounted for. Purchasing some of this equipment online will help avoid tax and shipping may even be free when the minimum order is reached. Planning ahead allows for savings, but buying locally supports the local economy and your fish store. I try to balance out my purchases accordingly.

That is a lot of money

Could any money be saved? Yes, there are alternatives. You could skip the controller entirely. A smaller return pump could knock off $100, and using different power heads could save another $500 or more. Cheaper inefficient reflectors will save another $200, but the wasted light won't benefit the corals and the need for a chiller to offset the heat from those bulbs will easily burn up that savings - not to mention the electricity consumed by the chiller day after day after day. I don't recommend skimping on the reflectors as they make a world of difference. With a few downgrades, it could take about $1000 off the total.
There is many many ways to cut this cost in half and that is buying used stuff or complete systems from someone that is getting out of the hobby. I have learned over the 15 years I have been doing this is always try to buy your tank new. There is nothing worse than picking up a used tank and putting all the time and money into it just to find a 2 or 3 inch scratch right at eye view on the front glass. It sucks.

Now that you've got the full picture, are you ready to proceed? I hope so, because this hobby is amazing, and addictive.

How many fish can you add to your saltwater tank?

For those of you that keep freshwater tanks, you are probably familiar with the “Inch per gallon” stocking rule (with all of its discrepancies as well). With saltwater there is also a basic guideline for stocking your marine aquarium, but it is less generous with the amount of fish you can purchase. A basic rule of thumb for a saltwater tank is one inch of grown fish per 5 gallons of saltwater. This means that a fish such as a Green Chromis, who’s expected adult size is approximately 3 inches, would require in the neighborhood of 15 gallons of saltwater once fully grown.

What you should also bare in mind however is that regardless of fish size, there are other factors that need to be considered when making your stock list. Aggression levels and swimming requirements of a particular fish are both factors that need to be addressed when making your selections. Even though a fish may remain small, if it has an aggressive nature it can make stocking in a smaller tank problematical. Likewise with fish that require a larger swimming area. If it's needs cannot be met in your system it can lead to problems later on. Research your fish selections before you bring them home. Know their feeding requirements, special needs and temperaments and it will make things much easier for everyone involved in the long run. Most of all Please do not do any impulse buying till you have done your home work. After all these are alive and living animals

DO YOU REALLY STILL WANT TO START A SALTWATER FISH TANK OR REEF TANK?

Would you like a drink of water to swallow that cost down?. One thing to remember in this hobby is there is no right way or wrong way cause each and every tank is different and it is what works for you and this guide should help you with the basics and point you in the right direction.

Crooked Reef · 03/06/2014, 12:03 AM

Lets start with the tank. Personally like the above poster mentioned I like the reef ready tanks and in my opinion they are worth the money. Check your local fish shops, craigslist, and other classifieds to see if you can find one used if you want to save some money. I believe mine was around $650 fo a 65 gallon tank, stand, and sump. There are better deals out there though I am sure. Currently my LFS has a used 180 with stand and sump for $750.

here is the list of all of my equipment from and approximate prices.

Tank stand and sump - $650.00
Return pump (Mag 9.5) - $100.00
Hoses, bulkheads, fittings - came with the used tank.
Heater - $30.00
Aqua c remora protein skimmer - $200.00 There are better skimmers but I got a HOB for my sump to save room for a refugium (You will need a refugium if you want any hope of keeping a mandarin)
Koralia 240, 425, 850, and 1150 gph pumps for flow in my display tank. Currently you can find these on the internet for anywhere from $30 to $40 a piece. You may not need as many as me though depending on your rockscaping.
80+ lbs of live rock at $7.00 a pound $560.00 (you will need a lot of live rock if you want to attempt to keep a mandarin)
80 to 100lbs aragonite sand. Dry sand maybe $60? it has been a while since I have checked and honestly dont remember what I paid.
Macro algea (cheato) for your sump. $10.00
Live rock rubbly for my sump $25.00
Clip on shop light with a 6500K cfl bulb $15.00
T5 HO fixture at a minimum to keep the clam. For a decent one with individual reflectors with 4 bulbs about $350.00 plus roughly $130 to replace the cheap stock bulbs with ATI bulbs.
RO/DI reef buddy system at $100 will work for that size tank no problems.
Thermometer $3.00
Test kits $125.00
refractometer $25.00
3 X power strips $25.00
Salt $50.00

With that list I have roughly $2500.00 in my tank not including livestock.
Luckily I don't need a chiller. I also dont run any reactors because it is a small system and I can dose calcium, but I have looked into it. When you start corals you may need to dose calcium and magnesium. I dose calcium but havent had to dose mag yet.

Crooked Reef · 03/06/2014, 12:36 AM

As for your stocking list I will say that your duncan coral and derasa clam are fine provided that you have the proper lights and flow. The fish list looks fine to me (with the exception of the mandarin) though blennys will fight eachother in smaller systems. I suggest that you post your fish stocking plan in that thread at the top of this forum for snorvich to review. He knows his stuff.

I would suggest that you stay away from the mandarin. They need something like 2 to 3 pods a minute to thrive because they dont have a conventional stomach to hold food. They are a beautiful fish but definately difficult to keep in a tank less than 90 gallons that is well established with live rock and a refugium. It can be done in a 55, but it will take alot of work or money on your part to keep it fed. You can cultivate your own pods to save money but many dont want to do that and wont keep up with it in the long run.

03/05/2014, 09:21 PM	#1
ZLAT Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Posts: 1	What is everything I need to buy to make this happen? I would love to start a 50-55 gallon reef tank containing one of each: Duncan Coral Green Mandarin Starry Blenny Convict Blenny/Engineer Goby Red Velvet Wrasse Tridacna Derasa Clam Could this combination of fish peacefully co-exist in this size of tank? Also, what would be the necessary equipment/cost for a reef aquarium like this? Waiting on your expert opinion folks, I figured this would be the forum to go to! Brand new at this and seeking experienced advice. Thanks for your time

03/05/2014, 09:48 PM	#2
TWISTER702 Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 65	Don't take this the wrong way and im not trying to be rude, but if this is your first tank and you are new to the hobby how much research have you done about the hobby. The best advice I could give you is do a month or two of reading and under stand this hobby before you just up and jump in. here is a article I put together for our guys in our reef club So You Want To Start A Saltwater Tank Guide I figured we needed a topic to help the new guys and gals that are thinking about getting into the saltwater hobby, So here we go, Oh you may want to grab a cold beer or coke or maybe a glass of tea of coffee for this if you're going to read it. Hopefully this thread can help guide you through the process and tell you where corners can be cut and where they can't. I do not claim to know everything and this is just the basics that works for me and many more. Please if anyone have some input please add it to help the new guys and gals out. So You Want a Saltwater Tank.. Who could blame you? For many aquarists, the saltwater aquarium is the highest level to the hobby, Owning a reef tank can be a very enjoyable experience. It is a great hobby and provides hours of fun. Watching all of the life in a reef tank can be calm and relaxing. However, with the dream comes a lot of responsibility. Careful planning, knowledge and patience are the keys to beginning and maintaining a successful marine aquarium. These FAQ’s are designed to help get your basic questions answered. PLAN IT OUT. Don't rush into anything! Take your time, think things through and plan ahead. Do you want a full reef tank? Will fish only be ok? or FOWLR fish only with live rock. One thing you will learn very quickly is that there is a ton of information out on the web with regard to setting up reef tanks. My advices, before you commit to this hobby, is to read, read and read some more. There are lots of great forums out there with many people willing to help out the new hobbyist. These people are a great resource. My personal favorite is www.reefcentral.com along with www.lvmas.com Along with many many more good sites Next, visit you local fish stores A LOT. Before you buy anything go talk to them at the store. Be careful, some places will just try and sell you stuff. You need to find the person at the store that is genuinely there to help. avoid petco or petsmart for information cause they are there to sell not help. Once you have done this and feel like you know how you want to proceed, ask yourself one last time "am I able to commit myself to this"? One thing we have learned, is that with proper planning etc this hobby isn't as difficult as it is often made out to be, however, for the first six months it will be time consuming. Until you get everything dialed in and your tank stabilizes, you're going to be spending a lot of time working on the tank. If you have come this far you're aware of the financial cost involved but many people don't talk about the time devoted to the tank in the early days. We are talking about providing a living habitat for fish, corals and other invertebrates. You have to be willing to commit your time to their care. In the early days the learning curve is steep, but, if you plan, take your time and get on one of the many great forums you can shorten the curve considerably. Where do you start? Well, one place to begin would be to decide on what type of marine tank you are wanting to keep. To make choosing easy, there are three basic categories of marine aquarium: FISH ONLY (FO): As the name implies, this category utilizes a simple tank configuration and the fish that are suitable for the space you can provide. Also, the FO tank is usually the least expensive to setup and maintain. FISH ONLY WITH LIVEROCK (FOWLR): In this category, we have the added benefit (and expense) of live rock to supplement the biological filtration and general aesthetics of a Fish Only system. The FOWLR setup is ideal for most beginning saltwater aquarists, as it allows for a more natural environment for the animals in your care and help in maintaining water quality through the addition of beneficial bacteria's and critters that colonize live rock. I think anyone that is wanting to get into the reef tanks should start here to get use to controlling there water parameters and how to care for fish, At least the first six months or so into the hobby and this way it gives your tank time to mature and settled in. Live rock sales for about $3.00 a lb to $12.00 a lb REEF: This category refers to a marine aquarium that contains corals, live rock and other coral reef related animals such as clams. Resign and prepare yourself to put forth plenty of cash to setup and maintain this type of aquarium. Lighting requirements on a Reef setup are higher (read “more expensive”) and closer attention to water quality is absolutely necessary to have long term success. If all possible try and go with a reef ready tank, Meaning it is drilled with internal overflow box you will have way less problems with this type of tank. Can you start with a FO tank and then work your way up to a Reef tank later? Yes, you can. Many people choose to ease into Reef keeping by first maintaining a FO or FOWLR aquarium. Whether it’s a need to learn about caring for a saltwater aquarium without the added responsibility of keeping corals or purely a financial consideration, you have the opportunity to upgrade as your skill and/or finances allow. What kind of equipment will you need? For a basic saltwater setup it’s really not much different from a freshwater setup. You’ll need your tank, a stable aquarium stand, adequate filtration in the form of either a Hang On Back (HOB) or canister filter Not recommended but works, I would recommend a sump if all possible, power heads to create adequate current, water test kits if you choose to monitor yourself rather than taking samples to your favorite shop and a heater to keep the aquarium's water temperature constant. Things that are specific to keeping a saltwater tank would be salt mix, a Atc hand held Refractometer hydrometer (to measure your salinity levels), and a protein skimmer to help with the removal of excess organic matter in the water column. What size tank should you get? In saltwater, bigger is generally better. Not just because bigger tanks are a lot of fun to play with, but because with bigger tanks you have more room for error. Something as simple as water evaporation can have catastrophic effects on a smaller aquarium, but will be more easily rectified without serious repercussions in an aquarium with more water volume. For this reason, a beginning saltwater aquarist would do well to err on the side of caution and purchase the largest tank they can afford to begin their new hobby. Something in the neighborhood of 55 gallons would definitely be a good starting point. Can a small saltwater tank be successfully maintained? Yes it can, and a lot of people here at lvmas manage quite well with smaller saltwater aquariums. These small saltwater aquariums, or “nanos” as they are commonly called, are generally no larger than 20 gallons and they provide a lot of enjoyment to the people that choose to keep them. BUT, and isn’t there always a “but”, they require a level of care and knowledge that is more advanced in order to keep the balance of the tank within acceptable levels. If you do not possess the dedication to remain vigilant with your water tests and maintenance routines, this type of tank setup is not for you. What is the difference between Cured Live rock and Uncured Live rock and Base rock? Cured live rock is live rock that has been allowed to sit in saltwater with strong filtration and water movement so that the dead organic matter has been removed. Once live rock has been cured, you should experience very little trouble with ammonia spikes when added to your existing marine setup. Be aware however that even cured live rock can cause a small ammonia spike when added to your existing aquarium. For this reason, try to limit the amount of cured live rock to around 10lbs (or less if working with a smaller water volume) at a time if adding to an aquarium that is currently housing fish or invertebrates. Uncured live rock is live rock that has been harvested and shipped to the distributor with the dead organic matter still present. Unless your marine setup is empty of animals and corals, uncured live rock should not be added to your setup. The resulting ammonia spike and cycle uncured live rock will cause can have detrimental effects on your tank's inhabitants. Base rock is Base rock is any rock that can be used in your saltwater setup to supplement live rock. When beginning a saltwater aquarium, some people choose to use base rock to build up their rock structures and then will add their live rock into their aquascaping structure to save $$$$$$. The beneficial bacteria, small invertebrates, worms and other critters that come with live rock will eventually migrate from the live rock and take up residence on the base rock, making it live rock as well. It takes time in order for this conversion to happen, but if searching for a cost effective solution for stocking your aquarium with an adequate amount of live rock, base rock can be useful. How much live rock will you need? Generally, one to two pounds of live rock per gallon of water is a very good way to decide on what you’ll need to buy. Will your aquarium fall apart if you don’t have 55lbs of live rock in a 55 gallon aquarium? No. This rule of thumb is just to give you an estimate on what would be the most beneficial. Any amount of live rock that you can add to your system will only make it better. Let’s be realistic, live rock is expensive, folks. If the most you can afford at once is 2 or 3 pounds, then pick out the best looking stuff you can find and enjoy it. Many people have to slowly build up their live rock amounts as their finances allow. So long as you are responsible in the way it is added to a marine tank that has been stocked with animals and critters, you should experience no ill effects from an ammonia spike. Never add uncured or base live rock to your tank without cycling it first. Now that you have read all of that are you still wanting to start a saltwater tank? Great now let's get down to cost and see if you still feel the same way. If you are a DIY kind of person you can same a good amount of $$$. Depending on what size tank you are wanting, Remember go as big as you can cause everyone I have seen in this hobby starts small and then it is not big enough and off to find a bigger tank. More $$$$ Let's use a 120 gallon tank as a example. To be fair, equipment needs to be neither high end nor rock bottom clearance pricing. There are a number of ways to save money when making a big purchase. Group buys are popular, as well as buying used equipment from others that are upgrading or getting out of the hobby. What about the guy or gal that gets the itch to set up a saltwater system and just wants to get a realistic idea of what this may cost? That’s what this article will endeavor to answer. Prices vary from store to store, and customized choices affect the sales ticket significantly. While there are a variety of sizes of tanks to pick from, for the purpose of this write up I’m going to recommend a good tank size for a person that is seriously interested in setting up a reef tank in their home: 120-gallons. The footprint of a 120-gallon tank is 4’ long x 2’ wide x 2’ tall. This body of water provides swimming space for fish and a nice front-to-back depth for creative aquascaping. Corals have room to grow into colonies, and an open area of sand is possible for invertebrates to traverse. This tank usually comes with a single or double internal overflow with two holes drilled for the drain line and the return plumbing. The shopping list, This is just the beginning... Now it’s time to make the list of necessary equipment and what it could cost to get started: tank, stand and canopy $800 to $1200 Protein skimmer $200 - $1500 Sump & refugium $100 - $400 Return pump $60 - $450 Thermometer - $3 Test kits - 7 total: Alkalinity, Calcium, Magnesium, Nitrate, Phosphate, Nitrite, Ammonia $120 - $150 Lighting - ballasts, reflectors, bulbs $450 - $650 T5 and LED light $125 - $1,400 In-tank flow - power heads/pumps $100 - $900 Controllers $150 to $700 depending what you want it to do or you could go with Timers $30 - $50 Heaters $20 - $80 Fans $10 - $75 Power strips $5 - $25 RO/DI system $100 - $300 PVC pipe and fittings $100 PH meter - kits are worthless $80 And a list of optional gear, which actually is necessary for responsible husbandry: Calcium reactor $150 - $600 Phosban reactor $35 - $80 Quarantine tank $50 - $100 Aquarium controller $100 - $1500 Chiller $350 - $900 Additionally: Sand / Substrate $100 - $200 Rock $200 - $800 Salt $35 - $80 Mixing barrel $7 - $25 Hoses & pumps $15 - $50 Carbon / GFO / 2-part additives or ARM $40 - $80 This is a lot of money, Just do the math, With this list, livestock wasn’t even considered yet and that’s completely normal. Just like your own home, a lot of preparation was made before you could ever move in. It’s the same for the fish and corals we hope to keep - the tank needs to be set up correctly so your future reef can thrive. When it comes to choosing what gear to purchase, options abound and quality varies greatly. My recommendation is to purchase solid equipment with good warranties instead of cheaper products that will have to be replaced more quickly. Quality costs more, but lasts longer and often tends to do a better job long term. Examples of quality are a judgment call, but it doesn't take much research online to get a sense of what has a decent reputation and what is complained about excessively. With aquariums, investigate how the tank looks overall, how long the warranty period is and what the manufacturer demands when honoring a claim. Is the glass cut and polished cleanly, and does the silicone look tidy or sloppy? With skimmers, is it made with cast or extruded material and what type of pump(s) does it use? With lighting, the choices in ballasts can be confusing, but essentially you need to know what type of bulb it will light, how big it is, does it make noise / hum, and how hot does it get? A variety of reflectors are available, some being better than others. Even bulb choices are key to reaping success. Setting up a tank allows the hobbyist to choose a number of different products, I preferred to buy quality equipment rather than something cheaper to get by for now. That same mentality has served me well in this hobby, and has helped me avoid double purchasing to get the gear I really wanted. It may take a little longer, but in the long run I'm saving money. One more point that I never overlook: what will that item cost me in electricity consumption? Electricity never comes cheap, so every watt is considered and accounted for. Purchasing some of this equipment online will help avoid tax and shipping may even be free when the minimum order is reached. Planning ahead allows for savings, but buying locally supports the local economy and your fish store. I try to balance out my purchases accordingly. That is a lot of money Could any money be saved? Yes, there are alternatives. You could skip the controller entirely. A smaller return pump could knock off $100, and using different power heads could save another $500 or more. Cheaper inefficient reflectors will save another $200, but the wasted light won't benefit the corals and the need for a chiller to offset the heat from those bulbs will easily burn up that savings - not to mention the electricity consumed by the chiller day after day after day. I don't recommend skimping on the reflectors as they make a world of difference. With a few downgrades, it could take about $1000 off the total. There is many many ways to cut this cost in half and that is buying used stuff or complete systems from someone that is getting out of the hobby. I have learned over the 15 years I have been doing this is always try to buy your tank new. There is nothing worse than picking up a used tank and putting all the time and money into it just to find a 2 or 3 inch scratch right at eye view on the front glass. It sucks. Now that you've got the full picture, are you ready to proceed? I hope so, because this hobby is amazing, and addictive. How many fish can you add to your saltwater tank? For those of you that keep freshwater tanks, you are probably familiar with the “Inch per gallon” stocking rule (with all of its discrepancies as well). With saltwater there is also a basic guideline for stocking your marine aquarium, but it is less generous with the amount of fish you can purchase. A basic rule of thumb for a saltwater tank is one inch of grown fish per 5 gallons of saltwater. This means that a fish such as a Green Chromis, who’s expected adult size is approximately 3 inches, would require in the neighborhood of 15 gallons of saltwater once fully grown. What you should also bare in mind however is that regardless of fish size, there are other factors that need to be considered when making your stock list. Aggression levels and swimming requirements of a particular fish are both factors that need to be addressed when making your selections. Even though a fish may remain small, if it has an aggressive nature it can make stocking in a smaller tank problematical. Likewise with fish that require a larger swimming area. If it's needs cannot be met in your system it can lead to problems later on. Research your fish selections before you bring them home. Know their feeding requirements, special needs and temperaments and it will make things much easier for everyone involved in the long run. Most of all Please do not do any impulse buying till you have done your home work. After all these are alive and living animals DO YOU REALLY STILL WANT TO START A SALTWATER FISH TANK OR REEF TANK? Would you like a drink of water to swallow that cost down?. One thing to remember in this hobby is there is no right way or wrong way cause each and every tank is different and it is what works for you and this guide should help you with the basics and point you in the right direction.

03/06/2014, 12:03 AM	#3
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	Lets start with the tank. Personally like the above poster mentioned I like the reef ready tanks and in my opinion they are worth the money. Check your local fish shops, craigslist, and other classifieds to see if you can find one used if you want to save some money. I believe mine was around $650 fo a 65 gallon tank, stand, and sump. There are better deals out there though I am sure. Currently my LFS has a used 180 with stand and sump for $750. here is the list of all of my equipment from and approximate prices. Tank stand and sump - $650.00 Return pump (Mag 9.5) - $100.00 Hoses, bulkheads, fittings - came with the used tank. Heater - $30.00 Aqua c remora protein skimmer - $200.00 There are better skimmers but I got a HOB for my sump to save room for a refugium (You will need a refugium if you want any hope of keeping a mandarin) Koralia 240, 425, 850, and 1150 gph pumps for flow in my display tank. Currently you can find these on the internet for anywhere from $30 to $40 a piece. You may not need as many as me though depending on your rockscaping. 80+ lbs of live rock at $7.00 a pound $560.00 (you will need a lot of live rock if you want to attempt to keep a mandarin) 80 to 100lbs aragonite sand. Dry sand maybe $60? it has been a while since I have checked and honestly dont remember what I paid. Macro algea (cheato) for your sump. $10.00 Live rock rubbly for my sump $25.00 Clip on shop light with a 6500K cfl bulb $15.00 T5 HO fixture at a minimum to keep the clam. For a decent one with individual reflectors with 4 bulbs about $350.00 plus roughly $130 to replace the cheap stock bulbs with ATI bulbs. RO/DI reef buddy system at $100 will work for that size tank no problems. Thermometer $3.00 Test kits $125.00 refractometer $25.00 3 X power strips $25.00 Salt $50.00 With that list I have roughly $2500.00 in my tank not including livestock. Luckily I don't need a chiller. I also dont run any reactors because it is a small system and I can dose calcium, but I have looked into it. When you start corals you may need to dose calcium and magnesium. I dose calcium but havent had to dose mag yet.

03/06/2014, 12:36 AM	#4
Crooked Reef Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 1,765	As for your stocking list I will say that your duncan coral and derasa clam are fine provided that you have the proper lights and flow. The fish list looks fine to me (with the exception of the mandarin) though blennys will fight eachother in smaller systems. I suggest that you post your fish stocking plan in that thread at the top of this forum for snorvich to review. He knows his stuff. I would suggest that you stay away from the mandarin. They need something like 2 to 3 pods a minute to thrive because they dont have a conventional stomach to hold food. They are a beautiful fish but definately difficult to keep in a tank less than 90 gallons that is well established with live rock and a refugium. It can be done in a 55, but it will take alot of work or money on your part to keep it fed. You can cultivate your own pods to save money but many dont want to do that and wont keep up with it in the long run.