Honest non bias review of Kessil ap700

[Kizzy911]

I've had my ups and downs with the newer ap700 model of Kessil.
Let me start off that i have a red sea max tank that provides 6 t5 bulbs that i used (ATI bulbs). Growth and color and everything else was amazing (ofcourse since its t5) Now, i grabbed a deal and bought the Kessil Ap700 for $500, and figured wow this is a great light.

Pros that i like (ranked 1 best, and so forth)
1) Shimmer
-Probably the best feature of any Kessil products
2) Coloration
-Makes me corals pop, in addition to a shimmer.
3) Intensity.
-Very intense and bright, but is it bright enough? (will come back to this)
4) sleek design and clean look
-Very modern looking and just looks great overall, including the fans

Cons: (non ranked)
-SPS Will not like it as much, coloration will make it fade a bit (not saying it will completely) Not to mentioned after switching, Some acros and torts RTNd. (Coming from someone who does 2 water changes a week)
-Growth, after having this light for a month, theres not much growth. Comparing to my t5's (growth EVERYWHERE)
-PAR is a bit terrible, doesn't cover alot of space as they have advertised (sadly)
-IN addition to par, it was traded to me because of the lack of coverage (and now i'm having the same problem)
-probably the biggest one yet: the APP for it. Terrible terrible, and i mean bad. Crashes, not much features, doesn't work properly. For a great company who's selling their most expensive light on the market, you would think that everything would be prepared. A bit embarrassing for Kessil to not have everything prepared after a big talk about it.

All of this is coming from someone who LOVED the kessil. When i first got it, i thought "man this is awesome, very bright, corals are popping, etc"
Not only is this my own review, my LFS has a kessil ap700 over their 2 ft cube and they're changing the light because the SPS isn't liking the light very much (told him about my same proble.) For a $1k lighting system, the Kessil won't be worth much unless you supplement with t5's or even metal halides.

As of right now, i'm supplementing with 4 ATI bulbs on the side (though the Kessil is hitting the top of the t5 a little bit) we'll see how this goes. If it's still not working, i'm switching back to my 6 t5 bulbs.
Thought and comment? Feel free to rant or even prove me wrong, no comments will be disregarded or i won't be offended.

[Reef Frog]

It seems that people who start from scratch with a modern LED system have better results than people who switch to them on a mature aquarium that "grew up" with T5 or MH lighting.

This is just an observation from reading the (numerous) posts on the subject, not from oersonal experience.

[Ou8me2]

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

It seems that people who start from scratch with a modern LED system have better results than people who switch to them on a mature aquarium that "grew up" with T5 or MH lighting.

This is just an observation from reading the (numerous) posts on the subject, not from oersonal experience.

I say that is a fairly accurate statement. Many people who switch to LED assume they are a weaker form of lighting and they end up cooking their corals with LED's when switching to LED. If you are coming from MH or T5, then you need to adapt the corals to the LED. You will not hear many people complaining they lost corals due to low light. You however can see plenty of threads almost daily of people bleaching their corals or killing them with too much light.

[oseymour]

Originally Posted by Kizzy911

-PAR is a bit terrible, doesn't cover alot of space as they have advertised (sadly)
-IN addition to par, it was traded to me because of the lack of coverage (and now i'm having the same problem)

What do you consider terrible PAR?

There are a lot of things I don't like about the AP700 but PAR coverage is not one of them. I ran the lights at 80%, about 18 inches above a 48 x 20 inch tank and I'm getting 25 to 50 par in the far corners.

A couple of weeks ago I decided to experiment and added some T5s and now I run the Kessils at 30%. So I can't comment on growth with just Kessils as yet. I would say that after moving all my corals that were always under Kessils, 360WE to AP700 to T5s, they didn't initially like the change and I think this happens whenever you switch lights.

[greaps]

Thanks for the review.

[K.C.]

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

It seems that people who start from scratch with a modern LED system have better results than people who switch to them on a mature aquarium that "grew up" with T5 or MH lighting.

This is just an observation from reading the (numerous) posts on the subject, not from oersonal experience.

In fact your statement is the honest non-biased one here. No disrespect to the OP intended.

It's so hard to judge the quality of LED lighting if you've never used it and transitioning from a diffuse T5 light to any LED system has to be done with great care.

I've been keeping SPS for 30+ years and have run every light source that's made it's way through the hobby. I started using Kessils in 2011 and had a learning curve but now I love them.

I just took the last T5 hood I was running off a 40 B and changed to Kessils.

I'll buy an AP700 when they get the software update out, claimed to be sometime this summer.

[Jeremy257]

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

It seems that people who start from scratch with a modern LED system have better results than people who switch to them on a mature aquarium that "grew up" with T5 or MH lighting.

This is just an observation from reading the (numerous) posts on the subject, not from oersonal experience.

I've used LEDs for a few years. They have been great for LPS and softies. When I started putting SPS frags in my tank about 9 months ago... I've struggled. They lost color instantly. Now, I'm dosing Reef Chili and Acropower every other day. That has helped color a bit.

You NEVER see ANYONE posting "so, these acros were growing under LED and now I've put them under MH and they've lost color. They probably just need to adjust to the light or blah blah this or blah blah that..."

I know I've got to supplement with T5 or perhaps switch to MH if I want the growth and color. Over the weekend I went to the LFS where I bought the frags. Guess what, LEDs over his LPS and Zoos... MH over his SPS.. coincidence? I think not.

[slief]

Originally Posted by Jeremy257

I've used LEDs for a few years. They have been great for LPS and softies. When I started putting SPS frags in my tank about 9 months ago... I've struggled. They lost color instantly. Now, I'm dosing Reef Chili and Acropower every other day. That has helped color a bit.

You NEVER see ANYONE posting "so, these acros were growing under LED and now I've put them under MH and they've lost color. They probably just need to adjust to the light or blah blah this or blah blah that..."

I know I've got to supplement with T5 or perhaps switch to MH if I want the growth and color. Over the weekend I went to the LFS where I bought the frags. Guess what, LEDs over his LPS and Zoos... MH over his SPS.. coincidence? I think not.

I've been running LED's for about 5 years now. First Reeftech Prometheus LED's then I switched to Kessils about 1.5 years ago. For me there is no going back to halides. My tank has flourished under LED's and done so without supplemental lighting.

My SPS are growing like weeds under my Kessil 360WE's. My acro's have been growing upwards of an inch a month with new tips growing all over. My birdsnests & monti's are growing even faster and my other SPS frags have been growing very well too. I don't have supplemental lighting of any kind nor do I have an excessive amount of lights. I have 8 of the 360WE's over a 4'x8'x24" tall tank which is about 1 light per 24"x24" quadrant. I run them about 8" off the surface of the water and at a max of 80% intensity. My LPS and soft corals also grow insanely well. The key is not overdoing the intensity and keeping the color low and to the blue spectrum.

Par is very misleading with these lights. The blue spectrum doesn't read well on any Par meter. Maybe the brand new Apogee handles the blues better but you can't get caught up in the whole low Par thing with these lights. They are much more powerful than meets the eye and contrary to popular belief, LED's like the Kessils (AP700 included), Radions etc will grow SPS very well if the lights are setup right and the corals are given time to adjust. They also maintain very good color IMO. I will also note that aquacultured corals will adjust much better than the alternative. My SPS came as frags from a friends tank. He was growing them under AI's with T5 supplment.

I don't dose anything as I use a calcium reactor. I don't feed coral food. They get the left overs from my 50 or so fish. The only additive I use is Lugols Iodine once a week or so.

Having said that, if I had a choice, I would run the AP700's in a New York minute! In my case, it would be a costly move due to the size and layout of my tank so I will be sticking with the 360's for a while. I do however love the AP700's and strongly believe that the issues people are having with corals under these lights has more to do with settings and acclimation to the new lights than it does with the lights ability to grow SPS. They will grow SPS just fine but you need to start low with the intensity and work you way up very slowly. The corals will tell you when you have gone too far which is why it's important to raise the intensity slowly. I suggest no more than 5% a month and doing so a little bit each week. Once the corals respond adversely, you know it's time to back off 5% in the intensity. The corals don't need much white light either and too might white light isn't a good thing with the LED's. On the 360's, anything over 70% color can be counter productive and 60-65% is probably ideal. I think the same can be said about the AP700's although I am unfamiliar with the light programming so I don't know how that would apply.

I do admit that reading some of the issues with the interface is a bit discouraging. Kessil was working on the release of the AP700 for a very long time. While I do think they have the actual diode cluster down to a science, once they refine the ap to allow greater control over the different color/spectrum LED's, the complaints about coral coloration will likely go by the wayside. At least for those that know how to use the colors. There is enough red and other color in the various spectrums to meet the corals needs for growth. Addition colored LED's such as red and green diodes are more for aesthetic purposes and should only be used to highlight colors within corals (that might otherwise not be seen under the blue light) and make them pop. Hopefully Kessil gets that feature updated in their ap sooner than later so AP700 users can take advantage of the mixing that should be available in these lights. On the flip side, I tend to think that Kessil did do their homework in the balance of colored diodes in these lights. As such, their preset mix may be the best in terms of the corals needs but may not be the best in terms of bringing out the best colors of the corals which is where a bit finer control would come in handy for those that wish to play with the light spectrums a bit more.

[Jeremy257]

FWIW I had Kessil a360s and switch out to some chinese LED and things actually improved some. I'm sure that it can be done with LED only. I just think it's easier (and cheaper) just adding some T5. Just look to the BRS videos. They used T5 with their AP700s.

[makers marc]

You switched from T5 to LED and you are frustrated that there hasn't been any growth in a month? Too small of a sample size. Be patient.

Originally Posted by Kizzy911

I've had my ups and downs with the newer ap700 model of Kessil.
Let me start off that i have a red sea max tank that provides 6 t5 bulbs that i used (ATI bulbs). Growth and color and everything else was amazing (ofcourse since its t5) Now, i grabbed a deal and bought the Kessil Ap700 for $500, and figured wow this is a great light.

Pros that i like (ranked 1 best, and so forth)
1) Shimmer
-Probably the best feature of any Kessil products
2) Coloration
-Makes me corals pop, in addition to a shimmer.
3) Intensity.
-Very intense and bright, but is it bright enough? (will come back to this)
4) sleek design and clean look
-Very modern looking and just looks great overall, including the fans

Cons: (non ranked)
-SPS Will not like it as much, coloration will make it fade a bit (not saying it will completely) Not to mentioned after switching, Some acros and torts RTNd. (Coming from someone who does 2 water changes a week)
-Growth, after having this light for a month, theres not much growth. Comparing to my t5's (growth EVERYWHERE)
-PAR is a bit terrible, doesn't cover alot of space as they have advertised (sadly)
-IN addition to par, it was traded to me because of the lack of coverage (and now i'm having the same problem)
-probably the biggest one yet: the APP for it. Terrible terrible, and i mean bad. Crashes, not much features, doesn't work properly. For a great company who's selling their most expensive light on the market, you would think that everything would be prepared. A bit embarrassing for Kessil to not have everything prepared after a big talk about it.

All of this is coming from someone who LOVED the kessil. When i first got it, i thought "man this is awesome, very bright, corals are popping, etc"
Not only is this my own review, my LFS has a kessil ap700 over their 2 ft cube and they're changing the light because the SPS isn't liking the light very much (told him about my same proble.) For a $1k lighting system, the Kessil won't be worth much unless you supplement with t5's or even metal halides.

As of right now, i'm supplementing with 4 ATI bulbs on the side (though the Kessil is hitting the top of the t5 a little bit) we'll see how this goes. If it's still not working, i'm switching back to my 6 t5 bulbs.
Thought and comment? Feel free to rant or even prove me wrong, no comments will be disregarded or i won't be offended.

[PAXpress]

Originally Posted by Jeremy257

FWIW I had Kessil a360s and switch out to some chinese LED and things actually improved some. I'm sure that it can be done with LED only. I just think it's easier (and cheaper) just adding some T5. Just look to the BRS videos. They used T5 with their AP700s.

Maybe cheaper up front cost but what about electricity and bulb replacement costs?

[gus6464]

The electricity comment on every LED thread has been played out. The amount of cash it costs to light a big tank with LEDs properly is huge and the 5 year cost compared to an ATI t5 with yearly bulb replacements is still cheaper.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

[TX_Punisher]

Originally Posted by gus6464

The electricity comment on every LED thread has been played out. The amount of cash it costs to light a big tank with LEDs properly is huge and the 5 year cost compared to an ATI t5 with yearly bulb replacements is still cheaper.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Man I keep going back to this. I got out of the hobby 7 years ago and now. O I guess back Then n much has changed. I cAnt decide if I should go with LEDs or the old standby ATI T5 fixture over a 60" tank.

[air2mag]

Slief, I am also running two A360s over my 75 gallon tank. You said to increase the intensity no more than 5% a month. Do you start at 5% and what do you max out at? Do you go thru this same cycle for every new coral you add?

[slief]

Originally Posted by air2mag

Slief, I am also running two A360s over my 75 gallon tank. You said to increase the intensity no more than 5% a month. Do you start at 5% and what do you max out at? Do you go thru this same cycle for every new coral you add?

I used a par meter to determine my start point by measuring the intensity of the lights I replaced and then starting out with the Kessils about 10% below that. The 5% per month is a good safe number that allows you to raise the lights slowly without risk of damaging the corals. It also makes it easy to step back if you see a negative reaction from the corals. My peak was 75%. I never had to go beyond that and also never really acclimated new corals to the light let alone backed my intensity down for the new arrives. I placed them in a permanent location in the tank and watched them grow. I've never had a negative reaction from any coral under these lights. Depending on the height of the lights above the water and the types of corals you keep, I would likely suggest starting around 50% and working your way up slowly.

[ktownhero]

Honest and unbiased, perhaps, but not a useful review. Switching a mature tank that was on T5s to an AP700 and reviewing it after 30 days is not really useful at all. It could take months for the corals to adjust to the new light...

I look forward to the follow up in 6- 12 months!

[oreo57]

Have really nothing to add to this thread BUT always will have an "issue" w/ Kessils "magic PAR" talk..

Par is very misleading with these lights.

That dip w/ a Li-Cor (leaving their software glitch aside for a minute) will not account for much..

Besides other lights (LED, T5's) are blue rich as well..
PAR measurements (w/ a quality sensor) for Kessil as "as valid" as any other..
no "magic" photons" for them..

If PAR is less than what you have..it is less..now shading and hot spotting is another issue..
They are more problematic (lets call it "different") from a "form factor" change than from an output change.if you get my drift..
Still awaiting Kessils explanation to how PAR measurements aren't "valid" for their lights..

Par is par. But a significant portion of the output of the chip is in a range not detected by par meters...nor should it be, since theyre not technically photosynthetically relevant wavelengths.

chalk on a blackboard...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...474225&page=46

need proof not hearsay...

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by ktownhero

Honest and unbiased, perhaps, but not a useful review. Switching a mature tank that was on T5s to an AP700 and reviewing it after 30 days is not really useful at all. It could take months for the corals to adjust to the new light...

I look forward to the follow up in 6- 12 months!

Top downs of my 40b. Slightly over a year.

Solely on 1 AP700. Most are from 1" frags.






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[vhuang168]

The Miyagi that is in the 2nd picture, towards the top center of the picture started off as this.



Dated July 14 2016

Became this



Dated August 4 2016.






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[vhuang168]

Here is my The Vinh when I 1st got it.



Dated 10/16

Here it is dated 12/16




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