difference between zoa and paly?

[mayjong]

hey all-
how do i tell the difference between a zoa and a paly?
growth pattern? size?
thanks

[ssick92]

From my understanding the easiest way to tell is just size. Zoas typically are the size of a standard eraser on the end of a pencil, whereas palys are about the size of a dime. Im sure there is more to it than that but that's how I've been told to differentiate them.

Maybe someone could elaborate a little more.

Sent from my Galaxy Nexus using Tapatalk 2

[reefwars]

the short answer is palys have a gritty stalk or base that can hold sand, the stalks are normally brownish to green and the heads will have mostly the same types of colors.

palys will usually accept meaty and large foods, while small zoanthids do not show feeding responses as clear.

palys also slime alot more than zoas do.

zoas tend to have a greater color variaton than palys do.



heres an idea to get you started

http://www.saltyunderground.com/arti...articles_id=52

[BrianN]

Palys are nonrmally bigger, and Zoas are smaller.

[TampaSnooker]

Size is irrelevant. Palys have sand as part of their cheonochyme (sp?) - their mat and stalk.
Want the real answer? http://www.hindawi.com/journals/jmb/2012/856079/

[A. Grandis]

So much to learn about zoas!

Grandis.

[A. Grandis]

Double post!

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by reefwars

the short answer is palys have a gritty stalk or base that can hold sand, the stalks are normally brownish to green and the heads will have mostly the same types of colors.

palys will usually accept meaty and large foods, while small zoanthids do not show feeding responses as clear.

palys also slime alot more than zoas do.

zoas tend to have a greater color variaton than palys do.



heres an idea to get you started

http://www.saltyunderground.com/arti...articles_id=52

I had some time to take a look at the site above today and I just have to post some of my observations here.
Perhaps we'll learn more that way...

Some of the pictures and infos on the site could be wrong!!

1. Third picture in the article shows two different types of zoanthids. On the left it shows what I would believe to be a Protopalythoa sp. The right side of the same image has probably a Zoathus sp. The picture could make some people confused. The closed polyp is not the same species as the open polyp.
The Zoanthus sp. on the right side of the image, probably Zoanthus gigantus, is damaged by the closed polyp of Protopalythoa sp. on the left. The Protopalythoa sp. tends to sting Zoanthus sp. when placed too close and that could result in the "umbrella syndrome", on the picture.

2. I'm not sure if picture number 8 in the article is really representing a Palythoa sp. Looks like a Zoanthus sp. to me. Also, not all Palythoa spp. would be represented by the following statement: "grow in a mat of choenechyme, just like zoas, with their polyps embedded", like the article points out. Palythoa grandis doesn't grow like that. So that wouldn't be an easy or even a definitive way to define Palyhtoa spp.

3. Another observation: "Palys generally have a larger oral disc than zoas, with shorter tentacles.". Some Zoanthus sp. have huge oral disks, like Zoanthus gigantus. Therefore that wouldn't be a great way to define the difference between the two types of zoanthids.

4. Humm:
"Their oral discs lack the sphincter muscle surrounding the oral opening that is observed in zoas, with many people observing a “slit” mouth instead of a “round” mouth."
Slit mouth X Round mouth????

5. Lack or presence of sediments like sand on the zoanthid's tissue is irrelevant for a precise identification once many of the zoanthids propagated in closed systems would not have the presence of sand or other available to be used. So only colonies coming from the wild or from systems with such sediments would have the chance to assimilate those substrates to the coenenchyme while growing. The article points that, and that's a good reminder!

6. The article refers the Zoanthus sp. as " zoas". Please note that. The expression "zoas" in the hobby could refer to two names or therms: zoanthids or Zoanthus. Just to clarify and remind us here.

7. Picture number 8 is probably a Zoanthus sp.

8. Picture number 9 is probably a Zoathus gigantus, not a Palythoa sp.

9. Picture number 12 represents probably a Zoanthus sp. on the left side and probably a Protopalythoa sp. on the right side.

10. Finally, picture number 13 shows what probably is just a Zoanthus gigantus with the umbrela syndrome again. Not a Protopalythoa, for sure.

Sorry. I just had to get on it today 'cause I've been so busy. I'll appreciate if other people would take some time to study that article and read my observations. Give me some feedback, would you?

There are so many sites out there with mistakes like those. It's kinda normal to believe their info is accurate, but unfortunately it makes the mess even worse for all of us!

Grandis.

[AcanQueen]

I agree with Grandis and I haven't found a clear distinction between zoas and palys as yet. I grow a lot of Zoanthid and I'm not really sure about what species they are.

I've got some palys (pretty sure that's what they are) that I have been growing for a decade or more and there's not a speck of sand in their coenenchyme because there is no sand in my propagation systems. Furthermore there doesn't seem to be any firm difference in the growing conditions of zoas and palys only that they do vary on an individual basis- some zoas prefer more light than others, just like palys.

The major differences I've observed are that palys slime a lot more than zoas, don't get pox and spiders don't find them appetising.

[sucker_fish]

the major difference that I have heard of was a reference in the modern coral reef aquarium series statig that paly's and zoas have different length stalks, if I remember correctly it said paly's have a longer stalk than zoas...I dont remember if it went into detail giving specific lengths for each.

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by sucker_fish

the major difference that I have heard of was a reference in the modern coral reef aquarium series statig that paly's and zoas have different length stalks, if I remember correctly it said paly's have a longer stalk than zoas...I dont remember if it went into detail giving specific lengths for each.

Well that could lead to lots of speculation and question marks too.
There are some mean long stalks of Zoanthus spp., comparing to some relatively small Palythoa spp.
That just can't help us much.

Still very hard to define the differences...

Grandis.

[reefwars]

Originally Posted by A. Grandis

I had some time to take a look at the site above today and I just have to post some of my observations here.
Perhaps we'll learn more that way...

Some of the pictures and infos on the site could be wrong!!

1. Third picture in the article shows two different types of zoanthids. On the left it shows what I would believe to be a Protopalythoa sp. The right side of the same image has probably a Zoathus sp. The picture could make some people confused. The closed polyp is not the same species as the open polyp.
The Zoanthus sp. on the right side of the image, probably Zoanthus gigantus, is damaged by the closed polyp of Protopalythoa sp. on the left. The Protopalythoa sp. tends to sting Zoanthus sp. when placed too close and that could result in the "umbrella syndrome", on the picture.could very well be, but i believe the one on the left to be a palythoa spp. and the one on the right could very well be zoanthus gigantus as the flipped disks is common with them

2. I'm not sure if picture number 8 in the article is really representing a Palythoa sp. Looks like a Zoanthus sp. to me. Also, not all Palythoa spp. would be represented by the following statement: "grow in a mat of choenechyme, just like zoas, with their polyps embedded", like the article points out. Palythoa grandis doesn't grow like that. So that wouldn't be an easy or even a definitive way to define Palyhtoa spp.i didnt see where it said all palythoas???

3. Another observation: "Palys generally have a larger oral disc than zoas, with shorter tentacles.". Some Zoanthus sp. have huge oral disks, like Zoanthus gigantus. Therefore that wouldn't be a great way to define the difference between the two types of zoanthids.yes but zoanthus spp. are not palythoa spp. actual palythoas have much larger disks, sure zoanthus gigantus has large disks too ....but they are not palys.they are telling the difference between palys and zoas in this article not the difference in zoanthus.

4. Humm:
"Their oral discs lack the sphincter muscle surrounding the oral opening that is observed in zoas, with many people observing a “slit” mouth instead of a “round” mouth."
Slit mouth X Round mouth????

umm agreed im not sure how true that is either, may not be applied to all species but does has some credit in my experience.

5. Lack or presence of sediments like sand on the zoanthid's tissue is irrelevant for a precise identification once many of the zoanthids propagated in closed systems would not have the presence of sand or other available to be used. So only colonies coming from the wild or from systems with such sediments would have the chance to assimilate those substrates to the coenenchyme while growing. The article points that, and that's a good reminder!
yes they lose the need for sand once in aquaria

6. The article refers the Zoanthus sp. as " zoas". Please note that. The expression "zoas" in the hobby could refer to two names or therms: zoanthids or Zoanthus. Just to clarify and remind us here.

7. Picture number 8 is probably a Zoanthus sp. agreed

8. Picture number 9 is probably a Zoathus gigantus, not a Palythoa sp.palythoa spp. IMO

9. Picture number 12 represents probably a Zoanthus sp. on the left side and probably a Protopalythoa sp. on the right side.agreed also

10. Finally, picture number 13 shows what probably is just a Zoanthus gigantus with the umbrela syndrome again. Not a Protopalythoa, for sure.def not a protopaly, i dont think gigantus either

Sorry. I just had to get on it today 'cause I've been so busy. I'll appreciate if other people would take some time to study that article and read my observations. Give me some feedback, would you?

There are so many sites out there with mistakes like those. It's kinda normal to believe their info is accurate, but unfortunately it makes the mess even worse for all of us!

Grandis.

cheers

[A. Grandis]

Originally Posted by reefwars

Originally Posted by A. Grandis
I had some time to take a look at the site above today and I just have to post some of my observations here.
Perhaps we'll learn more that way...

Some of the pictures and infos on the site could be wrong!!

1. Third picture in the article shows two different types of zoanthids. On the left it shows what I would believe to be a Protopalythoa sp. The right side of the same image has probably a Zoathus sp. The picture could make some people confused. The closed polyp is not the same species as the open polyp.
The Zoanthus sp. on the right side of the image, probably Zoanthus gigantus, is damaged by the closed polyp of Protopalythoa sp. on the left. The Protopalythoa sp. tends to sting Zoanthus sp. when placed too close and that could result in the "umbrella syndrome", on the picture. could very well be, but i believe the one on the left to be a palythoa spp. and the one on the right could very well be zoanthus gigantus as the flipped disks is common with them
Well, yeah, Palythoa or Protopalythoa, would be on the left side. The polyp is closed, so...


2. I'm not sure if picture number 8 in the article is really representing a Palythoa sp. Looks like a Zoanthus sp. to me. Also, not all Palythoa spp. would be represented by the following statement: "grow in a mat of choenechyme, just like zoas, with their polyps embedded", like the article points out. Palythoa grandis doesn't grow like that. So that wouldn't be an easy or even a definitive way to define Palyhtoa spp. i didnt see where it said all palythoas???
The only part that talks about the coenechyme on the Palythoa text says: "Palythoa spp., or palys, also grow in a mat of coenenchyme, just like zoas, with their polyps embedded.".I would assume they are referring to all "Palys". I believe most of the readers would also assume that.

3. Another observation: "Palys generally have a larger oral disc than zoas, with shorter tentacles.". Some Zoanthus sp. have huge oral disks, like Zoanthus gigantus. Therefore that wouldn't be a great way to define the difference between the two types of zoanthids. yes but zoanthus spp. are not palythoa spp. actual palythoas have much larger disks, sure zoanthus gigantus has large disks too ....but they are not palys.they are telling the difference between palys and zoas in this article not the difference in zoanthus.
You've got confused. Please read again, the last word of my sentence is zoanthids, not Zoathus. Zoanthids are all the 3 in question: Zoanthus, Palythoa and Protopalythoa.

4. Humm:
"Their oral discs lack the sphincter muscle surrounding the oral opening that is observed in zoas, with many people observing a “slit” mouth instead of a “round” mouth."
Slit mouth X Round mouth????

umm agreed im not sure how true that is either, may not be applied to all species but does has some credit in my experience.
I still don't see any difference between their mouths. They all look like strait cuts to me.

5. Lack or presence of sediments like sand on the zoanthid's tissue is irrelevant for a precise identification once many of the zoanthids propagated in closed systems would not have the presence of sand or other available to be used. So only colonies coming from the wild or from systems with such sediments would have the chance to assimilate those substrates to the coenenchyme while growing. The article points that, and that's a good reminder!
yes they lose the need for sand once in aquaria
I prefer to believe they just don't have the sand available. If you place them close to the sand or other substrate they will incorporate to their structure as they grow. I did that experience myself.

6. The article refers the Zoanthus sp. as " zoas". Please note that. The expression "zoas" in the hobby could refer to two names or therms: zoanthids or Zoanthus. Just to clarify and remind us here.

7. Picture number 8 is probably a Zoanthus sp. agreed

8. Picture number 9 is probably a Zoathus gigantus, not a Palythoa sp.palythoa spp. IMO

9. Picture number 12 represents probably a Zoanthus sp. on the left side and probably a Protopalythoa sp. on the right side.agreed also

10. Finally, picture number 13 shows what probably is just a Zoanthus gigantus with the umbrela syndrome again. Not a Protopalythoa, for sure.def not a protopaly, i dont think gigantus either
Just like picture number 3. Perhaps the very same zoanthid colony?


Sorry. I just had to get on it today 'cause I've been so busy. I'll appreciate if other people would take some time to study that article and read my observations. Give me some feedback, would you?

There are so many sites out there with mistakes like those. It's kinda normal to believe their info is accurate, but unfortunately it makes the mess even worse for all of us!

Grandis.

cheers

Thank you so much for the reply!!

Grandis.

[Disher]

You rarely see people posting links to a peer reviewed article, well done!! Great thread.

[justhaag]

i was wondering the same thing and now i have a kind of confused semi backed up answer thanks guys!