Marine pure ceramic biomedia

[Swip]

Has anyone tried Marine pure ceramic biomedia? BRS just uploaded a video about rock surface area and the marine pure media seems to have almost the same as fiji live rock.
Would it be possible to run a system with only the media and no live rock?

[bertoni]

Maybe. I don't know how well the ceramic media works in practice. There seem to be conflicting reports from different people. You could try it to see what happens.

[Vinny Kreyling]

Theoretically yes.
This stuff does work and many people including myself use it to increase biological filtration because of lower rock use.

[itzonlithai]

Most people seem to be using them in their sumps to make a minimalistic rock scape in the DT with success.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Someone just did the Triton test and had elevated aluminum, and we suspected it might be this material.

Assuming it was the source, I'd avoid it.

[Electrobes]

That was me with the super high aluminum. I highly suspect it being the Marine Pure block given that my tank is fairly new, and simple.. Making a very short list of suspects. I've ruled out the others and it leaves just the block. I have since removed the block (yesterday) after getting the Triton test back.

[Maximus]

I can't figure out how ceramic would be leeching aluminum? If this is true, then I'll yank my block asap.

[Maximus]

Originally Posted by Electrobes

That was me with the super high aluminum. I highly suspect it being the Marine Pure block given that my tank is fairly new, and simple.. Making a very short list of suspects. I've ruled out the others and it leaves just the block. I have since removed the block (yesterday) after getting the Triton test back.

How concentrated was the aluminum?

[bertoni]

"Ceramic" just means a substance made by heating and then cooling some compound to create something solid. Alumina qualifies, for example.

[sowildpaul]

I never heard of that before so I just researched it. I found out that it's made of inorganic aluminosilicate. http://www.cermedia.com/MarinePureTechSheet.pdf

From Wiki;

Aluminosilicate minerals are minerals composed of aluminium, silicon, and oxygen, plus countercations. They are a major component of kaolin and other clay minerals.

So isn't it saltwater-safe?

[mandarinfanatic]

causes corals to sulk. elevated aluminium not recommended in reef aquariums

[Swip]

I'm glad I asked before buying it. Would be nice if more people with the media would test for aluminium.

[Azedenkae]

Sorry but I don't believe the Marine Pure is the source of the aluminium.

This is only because I work for a fish store, and our sister company distributes this stuff in Australia.

Not once had anything like that been reported, ever, despite many tests. And not once have we ever attribute any sort of slow coral growth or the likes to Marine Pure. Our display tank for example, run on two blocks of Marine Pure, and has been for a year. It's absolutely stunning.

This is our tank: https://www.facebook.com/13765363291...type=1&theater

Honestly if Marine Pure was leaching enough aluminium to be deadly, I'd assume the corals would have died, long ago.

I myself have one of this blocks in my 10gallon nano, cut up to fit in and there's no issues.

In fact, that's talking about how there's no issues.

I was able to cycle the tank and introduce a bunch of large corals and five fish after 10 days, and they're all happy. They were active and ate heaps from the first/second day they were in.

I feed my tank very heavily too.

I can only have good things to say about this. And trust me, there's no point in me pushing this product needlessly, you guys are in the US anyways.

I just absolutely love this product. Best biofiltration media ever, heaps better than live rock. In fact, I don't have any live rock in my tank! Besides whatever comes with my coral of course.

To be more precise, I feed about 200 or more NLS Thera-A small pellets per day. I dose 7ml of Aqua Vitro twice-three times per day. Just having a look at the bottle now (I forgot what it recommended), I'm supposed to dose ~2.3ml every 3.5 days. Holy crap, so I am actually dosing 26 times the recommended amount and I don't even know it. @_@

But I guess that proves my point further. XD It's just such a good biofiltration media, that everything just gets soaked up.

Also I am 99% sure about all this, because I don't have any other filtration media, at all. Only the Marine Pure. Well I guess the sand, and whatever comes with the corals. But that's all.

I'm not saying it's not leaching aluminium, but is it that bad, at all? I doubt it.

Here's my tank btw:



:3

[Fade2White12]

I think that the likelihood of this media actively leeching aluminum is pretty remote if it truly is an aluminosilicate ceramic. Aluminosilicate is pretty common in aquaria, and is used to make everything from Miracle Mud, pump impeller/shafts, air stones, other media, etc. Heck, even Zeovit systems use it. But this is also why companies that use porous types for media or air stones say to very thoroughly rinse the product before use - from the byproducts of manufacturing, to dusts due to tumbling during packaging/shipping, etc. I have one of these blocks in my sump and had to rinse it several times in ro/di before it ran clear. The thing holds 2.5x its weight in water.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by Swip

Has anyone tried Marine pure ceramic biomedia? BRS just uploaded a video about rock surface area and the marine pure media seems to have almost the same as fiji live rock.
Would it be possible to run a system with only the media and no live rock?

Irrespective of the discussion of ceramics leaching aluminum into the water, the general answer to your question is "yes, you can run a system with no live/dead rock". All that is required is some sort of surface for nitrification bacteria to colonize. This could be sand, filter sponges, ceramic media, granular activated carbon, or just about anything else that's porous and has a large surface area.

However, "run a system" needs some qualifications. As far as a functioning biofilter, absolutely - any of the media listed above will work. What one would then have is a "coral garden" in the manner of those with minimalist (dead) rock work and bare bottom tanks that are heavily filtered and kept scrupulously clean. The other philosophy is a "biotope" tank where truly live rock is used to deliberately introduce all manner of creatures, no mechanical filtration is used to avoid removing pelagic micro creatures. These tanks also generally run at least a 2" deep sand bed populated with various worms, snails, etc...

I should note that while my preference is the "biotope" tank, I've certainly seem some stunning "coral gardens" as well. Both are nice, it's just a preference.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Azedenkae

Sorry but I don't believe the Marine Pure is the source of the aluminium.

This is only because I work for a fish store, and our sister company distributes this stuff in Australia.

Not once had anything like that been reported, ever, despite many tests. And not once have we ever attribute any sort of slow coral growth or the likes to Marine Pure. Our display tank for example, run on two blocks of Marine Pure, and has been for a year. It's absolutely stunning.

But no test results for aluminum, right?

Seachem has been swearing that Phosguard releases no aluminum for years, despite my showing otherwise. Now users of aluminum oxide media are detecting aluminum using the widespread availability of Triton's test method.

Duh, Seachem used a method to test for aluminum which wasn't sensitive enough to see it. Duh.

So to be clear, I'n not saying either that your product releases aluminum (but it is a concern I have and some experiments that folks are running might tell more) nor am I saying that the aluminum released is necessarily causing problems. BUT, the aluminum released from aluminum oxide binders has been known to cause problems, and I personally added aluminum to a test tank in an amount similar to what some people are getting (and what I saw released from Phosguard) and did see problems with several types of corals.

So I'm stating this as a caution and a reason I'd avoid this particular product until these issues are straightened out to my satisfaction.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Here are my experiments and the literature review I did on aluminum toxicity:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2003/7/chemistry

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Azedenkae

I feed my tank very heavily too.

I can only have good things to say about this. And trust me, there's no point in me pushing this product needlessly, you guys are in the US anyways.

I just absolutely love this product. Best biofiltration media ever, heaps better than live rock. In fact, I don't have any live rock in my tank! Besides whatever comes with my coral of course.

To be more precise, I feed about 200 or more NLS Thera-A small pellets per day. I dose 7ml of Aqua Vitro twice-three times per day. Just having a look at the bottle now (I forgot what it recommended), I'm supposed to dose ~2.3ml every 3.5 days. Holy crap, so I am actually dosing 26 times the recommended amount and I don't even know it. @_@

But I guess that proves my point further. XD It's just such a good biofiltration media, that everything just gets soaked up.

Also I am 99% sure about all this, because I don't have any other filtration media, at all. Only the Marine Pure. Well I guess the sand, and whatever comes with the corals. But that's all.

So what happens to phosphate in this aquarium?

I don't see any export method for it at all.

[Fade2White12]

Even if this was true (which I'm doubting), running some GAC would effectively export Al due to its attraction to organics. Coupled with routine water changes, this should be a non-issue. If I cared about Al (which should be much lower on people's priority list than the introduction of much more toxic metals and substances), I'd be more worried about supplements and salt mix.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Originally Posted by Fade2White12

Even if this was true (which I'm doubting), running some GAC would effectively export Al due to its attraction to organics. Coupled with routine water changes, this should be a non-issue. If I cared about Al (which should be much lower on people's priority list than the introduction of much more toxic metals and substances), I'd be more worried about supplements and salt mix.

What experience do you have with aluminum to claim that? Many people have experienced problems, even if you think it unimportant. Many less so now, however, since GFO has replaced aluminum oxide binders in many people's aquaria.

Heavy skimming does not seem to prevent elevated aluminum. I don't think it is as simple as using GAC to decrease aluminum, but I do agree that there may be other metals that are also a concern. I worry about them too!

In most cases to date, people do not know the source of these other metals, so do not make the immediate connection they make to adding something like Phosguard and seeing corals close up that same day. So it isn't as easy to demonstrate what the other metals might be doing.

FWIW, the Triton folks seem to recommend swapping back and forth between GFO and aluminum oxide binders, in part because the GFO will bind some aluminum.

[acesq]

Let me add a data point here to the analysis. I have a 400g total volume system. It was set up in November 2013. I've had 1 8x4" block and 4 1x8" plates of the marine pure in my sump from the start. Also, my entire reef structure is made of Cerameco, another ceramic product and weighs approximately 75lbs. I have no live rock at all in the system.

I used ESV salt from the start. I run a calcium reactor with Caribsea A.R.M. coarse media. I dose Vodka (stopped recently), TLF Acropower Amino Acids, and ocassionally KZ sponge power, flatworm stop (for two weeks just prior to the water test), zoebak, biomate and K-Power potassium. I also run reactors with Seachem Matrix GAC and switch between Rowaphos and PO4x4 gfo.

I can attest that this ceramic stuff in the volume I am using does work to provide sufficient surface area for bacteria since I have never been able to measure any nitrate and my phosphates are .02 or lower. In fact, I stopped dosing vodka and increased my feeding to try to increase the nitrate to detectable levels since my SPS have been looking pale.

I also recently did a triton test. My aluminum level was high, but nowhere near as high as electrobes'. Here is the result:

ACreeftritonresults10_28_14_Page_2.jpg
ACreeftritonresults10_28_14 1.jpg

So while we can't exclude the possibility that the ceramic media might leach aluminum, I'm not certain it does.

Randy, does the aluminum level I have (47.73 ugl) seem problematic?
(I am using some poly filters to bring down the concentrations of heavy metals just to be safe)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for posting that.

In my experiments, your aluminum level (~0.05 ppm) was not enough to irritate the leather, mushrooms, or green star polyps I tested. That was the result I got experimentally at 0.05 ppm. At 0.5 ppm, they were all irritated.

[dkeller_nc]

Acesq - One rather interesting observation about your water test profile is that both aluminum and silica were elevated. While certainly not proof that a certain amount of the base material commonly found in ceramics is soluble, one would think that both of these entities would be elevated if some of it was dissolving in the water.

Curious - what does Triton charge for an analysis like this?

[GainesvilleReef]

Triton charges $41.50 - $49 depending on the quantity of test kits purchased.

Wouldn't acros be more sensitive to Aluminum than a leather? Would 0.05 ppm be problematic for them?

[dkeller_nc]

Interesting - $50 isn't too bad for a once-in-a-while check.

I don't know if there's any studies comparing the sensitivity of various coral species to any metallic contaminants. But it certainly seems that acros are by far the most sensitive genus commonly kept by aquarists.