My 180 4sided viewable in-wall build

Hookup · 09/01/2009, 10:13 AM

Well folks, the first "real" step has been taken. The tank has been ordered. It will be here in 4-6 weeks. It's a 180gallon tank, 4 sides will be viewable, and 4 sides are starfire. The starfire was an expensive option given it's all 4 sides, but the overall tank was much cheaper than I assumed so it nett'ed out well for me.

So, why did I want to change out my tank. I'm just cresting the one year mark with the corner tank that I've setup. And honestly, it's doing very well. I've had ups and downs with the tank, and with the equipment over the past year, learned a tonne from many, many people on this forum/club and from others as well as reading obsessive amounts of information. However, that still doesn't answer the question of "why upgrade?".

Well the simple reason is I do not like my aquascaping, and the stand/canopy is the wrong color to go with my family room. I would love to make up loads of technical reasons that make sense to everyone, but there you have it, i'm shallow and want things to look just right.

The 92gallon corner tank I have right now is actually thriving again, and I see the grow-out potential in the tank. It's heading in good directions. However, the form rock-walls I built are not my thing, they have to go... but I used an entire tube of sillycone to stick them to the glass... likely not going to come off without a major fight... They were only put on there because I did not want to try to maintain the clean-zen look in a corner tank, figureing it would require some advanced yoga skills to keep it clean.

Additional factors would be that the aquascaping itself is very open, but no where near "zen bonsai" that I wish to have. In all my research and reading, the tanks I'm drawn to have vast open spaces with full mature colonies grown out bursting with color. I just cannot achieve that look in my current system. Additionally, there are some fish that I would like to have in the tank which are unreasonable in a 90gallon system. I'm not saying which ones are for sure, as at this time there are no "for sure" fish... but there are many that I really like.

So a little about the new tank. First, the 4 sided viewable concept might have perked some interest. It's defiantly going to present several challenges. The main reason is that this tank will be a room divider of sorts. It will be in the wall, kind of, between my dinning room and my family room. Imagine looking into my dining room and instead of a hutch on the wall you'll see a fish tank. All 180 glorious gallons of it... but instead of it being pushed up against the wall, the wall will have a hole in it allowing the room on the other side a view of the fish tank as well. So from the Family room, there'll be a flush wall-mounted/trimmed 180 gallon tank.

For many reasons I did not want the tank to be "built in"... but rather to look like it's on a stand, and as such, look like it's easily removable from the house. I'm always thinking resale value, cause you never know... not that we're planning on selling ever...

Now, to create the zen look and feel, I needed to find a way to handle the flow and plumbing without having any of it visible what so ever. The end product *must* look like a tank of coral, rock, sand and fish... that's it, that's all. I've done some research on overflow systems and have found a system to create a durso style drain without an overflow box. (more on that as that part of the project evolves). I've also got designs on a closed loop system, in fact the tank will come with 2 input holes and 4 output holes for a closed loop system, likely driven by a hammerhead pump (gold series for quite operation).

Additionally, the rock itself in the display will be 80% DIY rock. Of course the return lines and drain lines, as well as the closed loop system will be completely hidden in DIY rock, however even the rock structures themselves will be created from DIY rock. This gives me the control to ensure that no "extra's" get into the system. The rock I have now is covered in great hitchhikers...but they are getting in the way of stuff I actually want to grow. I've complained about the GSP and Zoa's before and this time I will not be bothered by them again. The existing rock will go into my sump as the fuge is being removed from the system, gaining a 40gallon tank of space that I can pack the rock into.

I'm pretty sure next week I'll open the wall and start the stand build, with photos. I want to get some sketchup drawings done of the stand, tank, overflows and what-not drawn up, but honestly that program frustrates me so do not hold you're breath. I'll be posting a bunch of photos as this build goes forward, but for now I figured I'd just formally let the cat out of the bag.

As always, thanks for reading
-Tim

Hookup · 09/01/2009, 10:17 AM

Some more details on the tank. The tank will have black sillycone and eurobracing. I hope to maintain the minimalistic look. I will be creating "netting" out of some pond cover materials and acrylic which will fasten to the eurobracing to stop fish from jumping. I have not yet located the materials but there are many threads about specific materials that work. As mentioned there will be 9 holes drilled for 1.5" bulkheads in the bottom pane of glass, which will be tempered for safety. I have not yet determined the exact placement of the holes, however, I'm fairly sure they will be bascially around the 4 corners. Two holes for the closed loop input are also a bit of a mystery at this point. I'm thinking of having them towards the center, but I do also know that I do not want any corals growing dead center, so no rock in the center to hide those inputs... I'll have drawn up some diagrams of possible rock work layout and posted them below as a way to help with placement of the holes.

The lighting for this tank will be driven from a 10bulb T5 fixture from ATI. The ATI Powermodule has active cooling on each pair of bulbs which creates the right conditions for the bulbs to output their spectrum for the longest period, at least thats what I keep reading. The fixture will be 5 feet and suspended over the tank, centered. I didn't feel there was a need to cover the entire 6 feet (72") of the tank with direct lighting and the streamlined look is better maintained with the slightly smaller fixture. The down side to this fixture is the bulbs. Not so much the direct cost, but the availability of 60" bulbs. It's limited. Very limited. And from what I am told, shipping will not insure bulbs of that length. Trips to Toronto (5hrs away) are required now, twice a year to get replacement bulbs... oh and whatever else might be awesome...

The tank stand itself is going to be very minimalistic and simple. Nothing fancy, but clean simple lines. The stand will be only used for display. What I mean is the sump is already in the basement, and I will just tie into that system. The closed loop will also get driven down into the basement because even though the pump is a gold-series, I want the system to be dead silent. So I'll mount the closed loop pump on the underside of the floor from some hangers that minimize noise through vibration but keep the pump relatively close to minimize pressure. (Closed loops do not suffer the same type of head pressure as return pumps, but still).

The sump will remain mostly as-is... with the removal of the fuge being the only major change. I'll be finding a spot to crate a frag-rack in the sump as well, but in all likely hood that will take months before i bother with it... with the new system, i'm hoping to achieve large colonies for the look. I will post a write up on the existing sump in this thread soon so everyone has an idea of what is keeping the display on life support.

I hope that gives you some more information, and honestly, writing it down helps solidify some of the concepts in my mind as well.

Thanks for reading
-Tim

Hookup · 09/01/2009, 10:18 AM

Ok, so here is the first diagram of the rock-work that should help place the holes in the tank. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be... However what I also realized is that if I'm not exactly correct, I can add an elbow here or there to move things around... but the down side with that is 1.5" plumbing is very large... moving an intake a few inches can be very bulky... something that goes against the zen/minimalist look.

Husky_1 · 09/01/2009, 12:35 PM

Hey Hookup,
It looks like you are putting a ton of thought into this tank. I think it will be absolutely wonderful when you are done.

Are you at all concerned with the integrity of the bulkheads that will be needed on the bottom of the tank. In a standard overflow, if things go wrong, you only have to worry about a couple gallons of water, but in your situation, it may be the entire tank's volume of water that is at risk. I know I am probably a bit paranoid when it comes to planning for these types of disasters, but I was curious as to what your plans for failure will be?

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing pics as the build progresses.

meredith1985 · 09/01/2009, 04:48 PM

This looks like an incredible idea! I love the thought of not being able to see those ugly pipes and tubes! I can't wait to see how you pull this off! I'm tagging along for sure!

GlassReef · 09/01/2009, 05:06 PM

This will definitely be worth following! I really like what you have written, so far, about the aesthetics of the tank.

I'm subscribed ...

Ed Reef · 09/01/2009, 10:25 PM

This will be a great tank build IMO

LUVSPS · 09/01/2009, 11:04 PM

Excited to follow along on this one!

Mayesj101 · 09/02/2009, 01:47 AM

Subsribed.

Hookup · 09/04/2009, 10:56 PM

The holes have been determined.. I just need to re-draw the diagram and send it in Tuesday. Oh and I added 4 more holes bringing the total number of holes in the bottom of the tank to 13... Yep, that's Swiss cheese for sure...

The reason is, I want to have 6 closed loop outputs and 4 closed loop in puts. The current plan only calls for 4 outputs / 2 inputs... The main reason is I need to think way, way, way down the road say in 3-4 years when the corals have grown into their max size (after that fragging takes care of things)... Anyhow, the flow required at that time might be significant because of dense corals, so with 6 outputs and 4 inputs, I could run two pumps, say gold series darts @4200gph each, and get upwards of 8000gph flow in 180gallon system... then, if really needed, I can put in gold series hammerheads @6200gph each, and move up to 12,000gph in the system for circulation..

Each of the CL outputs will be divided into two 3/4" pipes that will delivery flow in to directions. Additionally for the first while, a 4-way OceansMotions will be used to create random flow on four of the 6 outputs. (I reserve the right to change that plan). I need to contact them (OceansMotions) and have a discussion or three, maybe even go visit them.. Toronto is only 5hrs away.

I'll post a new drawing as soon as I can. The demolition will not start until after I get the fireplace ripped out, and stone put on the wall, the fire place raised 6inches high and re-connected etc... It'd be nice to assume I can get that project done for the end of next week... Then the week after, or possibly the one after that, start ripping up walls and building stands.

waynem · 09/04/2009, 11:28 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Hookup
The holes have been determined.. I just need to re-draw the diagram and send it in Tuesday. Oh and I added 4 more holes bringing the total number of holes in the bottom of the tank to 13... Yep, that's Swiss cheese for sure...

13 ...that is a lot of holes, glad your not superstitious

Hookup · 09/08/2009, 03:38 PM

LOL, i never noticed.... I had a really crazy day at work and it's not over yet.. I've not been able to update the diagram and get it sent out to the builder. I hate delays, even when I am the cause.

Hookup · 09/10/2009, 06:10 PM

Good news! The tank has been finalized. As above, the deposit was given some time ago (two weeks almost now) but the builder, Miracle Tanks in Toronto, needed to know where to drill the holes... all 13 of them...

The image and instructions below was sent to them today meaning that we should be on-track for a delivery date of around end of October.

The Stand will begin construction in a few weeks as there is no need to open up the wall too early.

I think that we (my LFS and I) have come up with some creative solutions for the aquascaping process. Possiblly done before by someone somewhere, because nothings really new anymore, but it should make a drop-fit aquascape...

Lightsluvr · 09/10/2009, 07:35 PM

Holey moley!!!

Thatsa lotta holes! I was worried about the 7 holes in my tank's underbelly...

Th eright side looks like it will be "quiet"...

Tagging along to watch it go together.

LL

Hookup · 09/10/2009, 08:26 PM

I will admit that Miracles said yes to 9 holes, not 13... so we'll see what they say at this point... maybe they will have to up the glass thickness or who knows... I cannot see why it would be a problem, but then again, I do not make tanks for a living... so until the experts, who will warranty the tank, reply... i'm just going to ignore the potential issue and live in ignorance and bliss... which btw, is an awesome place to call home.

Ed Reef · 09/10/2009, 08:34 PM

13 holes for a 180-g. What base thickness are you going with?? Seems a lot of holes IMO....

Alternatively maybe can run some of the CL along the base of the tank and use a SSB to cover the PVC plumbing as this way you will have less hole.

Hookup · 09/10/2009, 08:58 PM

Admittedly, 13 holes is, a few..

What is a SSB?

Ed Reef · 09/10/2009, 09:52 PM

SSB = Single Sand Bed

Lightsluvr · 09/11/2009, 04:21 AM

Here is another option for a closed loop if you don't want too many holes in your tank bottom.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=6

Paul is President of COMAS and a frequent contributor to Reefkeeping Magazine. I have seen his finished closed loop in operation...it really gets the flow going in his 600G tank!

Just another option for you...

LL

edandsandy · 09/11/2009, 06:03 AM

This is going to be an interesting build.
Tagging along.

Hookup · 09/11/2009, 07:42 AM

@Lightsluvr; thanks for that link... It's an interesting "low hole" option. I'm waiting for feedback from the builder before changing the design, if they are willing to warranty the 13hole crazynes, then I'm charging ahead... if not, now I've got some excellent options.

The diagram I posted above is missleading. Each of the closed loops returns is a candidate for being split, and in all honestly, they all likely will be thus giving me 12 points of flow from the 6 holes.. that decision will be made during the aquascaping/DIY rock phase... Each of the CL returns will be controlled with a valve, though I assume that is standard practice. I will also be looking at an Oceans Motions unit for part of the CL, but that's somewhat un-related...

At this time, I do think that I will just go ahead with 2 closed loop pumps right from the start. Two gold-series darts will be used because they are a bit more energy efficent when compared to their non-gold series counterparts. Additionally, they provide extra punch in the flow department, however for a while, this will not be required because of the open concept and smaller corals...

My personal feeling on flow, in a reef system, and SPS system more specifically, is that it's not about GPH or turnover, but about quality of water movement when it comes to refreshing the micro-thin layer of 'bonded water' on the corals and ensuring suspension for as much waste materail as possible. So i'm more than confident that my first design would be sufficent, for a long time to come.. but I've seen so many tanks with corals grown in, nice and thick, so looking down the road, I've got to try to predict where the dense spots will occur, and be ready with flow today...

This part I'm finding already is very limiiting... in a "normal tank" you can just add a pump wherever you need, or tweak some plumbing, etc, etc... this tank will never have a visible piece of plumbing in it, (to the best of my abilities), so I really have to envision the 3 or 4 year "grown out" end-state of the tank and be ready to manage it between day 0 and year 4... I figure by the time year 4 is here, the corals will be pretty much grown in as much as I want, and i'll be into a frag-fest to keep things running..

@Ed Reef; At this point my sand bed depth is TBD, though thanks for the new term..

I'm completely torn on the fish side of this build. From my laymans artistic eye, I feel that there are only one of two ways to stock the tank with fish. Either have one OMG show piece, say a pair of crosshatch triggers, OR, have a teeming mass of the same fish.. say 10 yellow tangs and 30 green chromis...

In either secnario, there would obviously be many other fish in the system, but the idea is that from 20 feet away, either design has something that draws the viewer to the "tank". Either the size and splendor of a single fish, or the mass of similar/same color... once the Viewer is "hooked" their eyes woudl then begin to explore the tank and that's where all the blennies, gobies, inverts, mandrin, etc, etc, come into play... the viewer keeps returing to the main image (OMG show piece or mass of similarity) but then reverts to the little details... over and over... creating a "discovery experience".. (OK, i know, i think way,way to much about this stuff... I've even tried to balance the rest of the decore in my house using basic fung shui... but everyone needs an obsession... and I hate the work involed in stalking people...

)

So, back to why the sand bed is not determined... of all the fish decisions i've yet to make, leopard wrasses are always at the top of my wish list... wrasses in general are required... also I want to get about 5-8 yellow-headded jawfish... all requiring 3" of sand... a bit more than the SSB and not nearly a DSB...

I do not like deep sand beds... or beds over 1"... this is not from personal experience, but from what I've read... however, I do like wrasses and jawfish, and gobies, etc...

Anyhow, that's Future Tim's problem... so he can deal with it later...

Thanks for reading,
Tim

sean_954 · 09/13/2009, 09:18 PM

mmmm 13 holes , mmm .............i'll have to stay tuned to build .

sean_954 · 09/13/2009, 09:19 PM

mhhh 13 holes , mhhh .............i'll have to stay tuned to build .

Hookup · 09/16/2009, 08:58 PM

I did some updates to my diagram for flow... to ensure that I had enough of the design worked out. On paper, the tank builder has given the thumbs up to the holes and placement. They are laying it out on a sheet of glass to "visualize" the final product before saying no problems.

One other "major" change is at this point, i'm planning on driving each of the two closed loop systems using a gold series dart, but also from a single 1.5" input drain as opposed to having 2 x 1.5" drains connecting to the pump... I believe there is enough pressure fromthe tank, sitting 10feet above the pumps, that the 1.5" line will never go dry, and I will use a ball or gate valve on the return line from each closed loop to "slightly" throttle back the return flow, thus ensuring that the pump will never run out of supply water.

This now means that each CL has 4 outputs to play with.

CL1 is for mass flow... It is on 100% of the time and keeps the water moving in a circular pattern around the long-end of the tank... The two Closed Loop inputs (shown in light blue (Cyan for some))... are also drawing in, 4300gph each, at the left side of the tank... assisting in the mass-flow direction... water pulled out of that side, must be replaced... so there's 8600gph of downward flow in that section... Smiley nice thing about that kind of flow is, its not very focused... and with the hole placement i've shown, and possible splitting of the lines inside the rockwork, it should work out quite nicely to "suck" water down that side... while the green lines, push water across the bottom and back across the top..

CL2 is for turbid flow... It uses an oceans motions device to create that randomness in the flow patterns which will keep detritius suspended until the mass-flow loop (CL1) can carry it to the drain lines. I have so many ideas for how to make these happen, including vertical spray bars inside of the rockwork... it's just too hard to show on this rendering.

Hookup · 09/28/2009, 05:48 PM

Just keeping this thread, and my build alive. There has not been any actual progress mainly because it's hurry up and wait for the tank. I expect that the tank is about 4 weeks from delivery (optimistically).

I'm going to start building the stand soon and have not decided on the finished product. I know that it will minic LastLights stand because it is truly what I want, in fact I think you'll see a bunch of similarities as time goes bye.

One idea that I have is to copy the window treatement from my diningroom onto the stand itself. We just re-did the room, mostly, and the window treatment was something my wife and I DIY'd in a day trying to get a modern/clean look to that room. I like the idea of keeping the fish-tank stand along the same lines. In fact, I ensured that the horizontal line in the window treatement is the same level as the top of the aquarium stand when complete so it will line-up nicely either way. Here are some photos of my dining room to give you an idea what I'm considering for my stand treatment.

At any case, the stand will be a simply 2x4 frame skinned out in ply.

Just wanted to let everyone know this was not dead, I'm just in the "dead zone" waiting for the next steps.

As always, thanks for reading,
Tim

09/01/2009, 10:13 AM	#1
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	My 180 4sided viewable in-wall build Well folks, the first "real" step has been taken. The tank has been ordered. It will be here in 4-6 weeks. It's a 180gallon tank, 4 sides will be viewable, and 4 sides are starfire. The starfire was an expensive option given it's all 4 sides, but the overall tank was much cheaper than I assumed so it nett'ed out well for me. So, why did I want to change out my tank. I'm just cresting the one year mark with the corner tank that I've setup. And honestly, it's doing very well. I've had ups and downs with the tank, and with the equipment over the past year, learned a tonne from many, many people on this forum/club and from others as well as reading obsessive amounts of information. However, that still doesn't answer the question of "why upgrade?". Well the simple reason is I do not like my aquascaping, and the stand/canopy is the wrong color to go with my family room. I would love to make up loads of technical reasons that make sense to everyone, but there you have it, i'm shallow and want things to look just right. The 92gallon corner tank I have right now is actually thriving again, and I see the grow-out potential in the tank. It's heading in good directions. However, the form rock-walls I built are not my thing, they have to go... but I used an entire tube of sillycone to stick them to the glass... likely not going to come off without a major fight... They were only put on there because I did not want to try to maintain the clean-zen look in a corner tank, figureing it would require some advanced yoga skills to keep it clean. Additional factors would be that the aquascaping itself is very open, but no where near "zen bonsai" that I wish to have. In all my research and reading, the tanks I'm drawn to have vast open spaces with full mature colonies grown out bursting with color. I just cannot achieve that look in my current system. Additionally, there are some fish that I would like to have in the tank which are unreasonable in a 90gallon system. I'm not saying which ones are for sure, as at this time there are no "for sure" fish... but there are many that I really like. So a little about the new tank. First, the 4 sided viewable concept might have perked some interest. It's defiantly going to present several challenges. The main reason is that this tank will be a room divider of sorts. It will be in the wall, kind of, between my dinning room and my family room. Imagine looking into my dining room and instead of a hutch on the wall you'll see a fish tank. All 180 glorious gallons of it... but instead of it being pushed up against the wall, the wall will have a hole in it allowing the room on the other side a view of the fish tank as well. So from the Family room, there'll be a flush wall-mounted/trimmed 180 gallon tank. For many reasons I did not want the tank to be "built in"... but rather to look like it's on a stand, and as such, look like it's easily removable from the house. I'm always thinking resale value, cause you never know... not that we're planning on selling ever... Now, to create the zen look and feel, I needed to find a way to handle the flow and plumbing without having any of it visible what so ever. The end product must look like a tank of coral, rock, sand and fish... that's it, that's all. I've done some research on overflow systems and have found a system to create a durso style drain without an overflow box. (more on that as that part of the project evolves). I've also got designs on a closed loop system, in fact the tank will come with 2 input holes and 4 output holes for a closed loop system, likely driven by a hammerhead pump (gold series for quite operation). Additionally, the rock itself in the display will be 80% DIY rock. Of course the return lines and drain lines, as well as the closed loop system will be completely hidden in DIY rock, however even the rock structures themselves will be created from DIY rock. This gives me the control to ensure that no "extra's" get into the system. The rock I have now is covered in great hitchhikers...but they are getting in the way of stuff I actually want to grow. I've complained about the GSP and Zoa's before and this time I will not be bothered by them again. The existing rock will go into my sump as the fuge is being removed from the system, gaining a 40gallon tank of space that I can pack the rock into. I'm pretty sure next week I'll open the wall and start the stand build, with photos. I want to get some sketchup drawings done of the stand, tank, overflows and what-not drawn up, but honestly that program frustrates me so do not hold you're breath. I'll be posting a bunch of photos as this build goes forward, but for now I figured I'd just formally let the cat out of the bag. As always, thanks for reading -Tim __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/01/2009, 10:17 AM	#2
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	Some more details on the tank. The tank will have black sillycone and eurobracing. I hope to maintain the minimalistic look. I will be creating "netting" out of some pond cover materials and acrylic which will fasten to the eurobracing to stop fish from jumping. I have not yet located the materials but there are many threads about specific materials that work. As mentioned there will be 9 holes drilled for 1.5" bulkheads in the bottom pane of glass, which will be tempered for safety. I have not yet determined the exact placement of the holes, however, I'm fairly sure they will be bascially around the 4 corners. Two holes for the closed loop input are also a bit of a mystery at this point. I'm thinking of having them towards the center, but I do also know that I do not want any corals growing dead center, so no rock in the center to hide those inputs... I'll have drawn up some diagrams of possible rock work layout and posted them below as a way to help with placement of the holes. The lighting for this tank will be driven from a 10bulb T5 fixture from ATI. The ATI Powermodule has active cooling on each pair of bulbs which creates the right conditions for the bulbs to output their spectrum for the longest period, at least thats what I keep reading. The fixture will be 5 feet and suspended over the tank, centered. I didn't feel there was a need to cover the entire 6 feet (72") of the tank with direct lighting and the streamlined look is better maintained with the slightly smaller fixture. The down side to this fixture is the bulbs. Not so much the direct cost, but the availability of 60" bulbs. It's limited. Very limited. And from what I am told, shipping will not insure bulbs of that length. Trips to Toronto (5hrs away) are required now, twice a year to get replacement bulbs... oh and whatever else might be awesome... The tank stand itself is going to be very minimalistic and simple. Nothing fancy, but clean simple lines. The stand will be only used for display. What I mean is the sump is already in the basement, and I will just tie into that system. The closed loop will also get driven down into the basement because even though the pump is a gold-series, I want the system to be dead silent. So I'll mount the closed loop pump on the underside of the floor from some hangers that minimize noise through vibration but keep the pump relatively close to minimize pressure. (Closed loops do not suffer the same type of head pressure as return pumps, but still). The sump will remain mostly as-is... with the removal of the fuge being the only major change. I'll be finding a spot to crate a frag-rack in the sump as well, but in all likely hood that will take months before i bother with it... with the new system, i'm hoping to achieve large colonies for the look. I will post a write up on the existing sump in this thread soon so everyone has an idea of what is keeping the display on life support. I hope that gives you some more information, and honestly, writing it down helps solidify some of the concepts in my mind as well. Thanks for reading -Tim __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/01/2009, 10:18 AM	#3
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	Ok, so here is the first diagram of the rock-work that should help place the holes in the tank. It was a lot harder than I thought it would be... However what I also realized is that if I'm not exactly correct, I can add an elbow here or there to move things around... but the down side with that is 1.5" plumbing is very large... moving an intake a few inches can be very bulky... something that goes against the zen/minimalist look. __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/01/2009, 12:35 PM	#4
Husky_1 Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: South FL Posts: 1,541	Hey Hookup, It looks like you are putting a ton of thought into this tank. I think it will be absolutely wonderful when you are done. Are you at all concerned with the integrity of the bulkheads that will be needed on the bottom of the tank. In a standard overflow, if things go wrong, you only have to worry about a couple gallons of water, but in your situation, it may be the entire tank's volume of water that is at risk. I know I am probably a bit paranoid when it comes to planning for these types of disasters, but I was curious as to what your plans for failure will be? Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing pics as the build progresses. __________________ Out of the hobby, but thinking of rejoining Current Tank Info: 92 Reef, 10 Reef

09/01/2009, 04:48 PM	#5
meredith1985 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 92	This looks like an incredible idea! I love the thought of not being able to see those ugly pipes and tubes! I can't wait to see how you pull this off! I'm tagging along for sure! __________________ Just keep swimming! Current Tank Info: 40 gallon mixed reef

09/01/2009, 05:06 PM	#6
GlassReef Got Reef Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Weeki Wachee, Florida Posts: 2,501	This will definitely be worth following! I really like what you have written, so far, about the aesthetics of the tank. I'm subscribed ... __________________ Tom No matter how much you try to push the envelope, it remains stationary.

09/01/2009, 10:25 PM	#7
Ed Reef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Currently Based in China Posts: 4,060	This will be a great tank build IMO __________________ Ed ~ Art is an adventure into an unknown world, which can only be explored by those willing to take the risks. ~ Current Tank Info: Ed Reef’s Shallow Crest Inspired ART

09/01/2009, 11:04 PM	#8
LUVSPS Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: Washington state Posts: 583	Excited to follow along on this one! __________________ "The statistics on sanity are that one out of every four people is suffering from a mental illness. Look at your 3 best friends. If they're ok, then it's you." — Rita Mae Brown Current Tank Info: 120g SPS reef in the works. 2 400w MH in Lumenarc reflectors. 2 Vortechs. Warner Marine S-200 skimmer. Lifereef sump/refuge. TLF Phosban reactor. 110lbs dried Eco rocks.

09/02/2009, 01:47 AM	#9
Mayesj101 Registered Member Join Date: May 2009 Posts: 122	Subsribed.

09/04/2009, 10:56 PM	#10
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	The holes have been determined.. I just need to re-draw the diagram and send it in Tuesday. Oh and I added 4 more holes bringing the total number of holes in the bottom of the tank to 13... Yep, that's Swiss cheese for sure... The reason is, I want to have 6 closed loop outputs and 4 closed loop in puts. The current plan only calls for 4 outputs / 2 inputs... The main reason is I need to think way, way, way down the road say in 3-4 years when the corals have grown into their max size (after that fragging takes care of things)... Anyhow, the flow required at that time might be significant because of dense corals, so with 6 outputs and 4 inputs, I could run two pumps, say gold series darts @4200gph each, and get upwards of 8000gph flow in 180gallon system... then, if really needed, I can put in gold series hammerheads @6200gph each, and move up to 12,000gph in the system for circulation.. Each of the CL outputs will be divided into two 3/4" pipes that will delivery flow in to directions. Additionally for the first while, a 4-way OceansMotions will be used to create random flow on four of the 6 outputs. (I reserve the right to change that plan). I need to contact them (OceansMotions) and have a discussion or three, maybe even go visit them.. Toronto is only 5hrs away. I'll post a new drawing as soon as I can. The demolition will not start until after I get the fireplace ripped out, and stone put on the wall, the fire place raised 6inches high and re-connected etc... It'd be nice to assume I can get that project done for the end of next week... Then the week after, or possibly the one after that, start ripping up walls and building stands. __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/08/2009, 03:38 PM	#12
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	LOL, i never noticed.... I had a really crazy day at work and it's not over yet.. I've not been able to update the diagram and get it sent out to the builder. I hate delays, even when I am the cause. __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/10/2009, 06:10 PM	#13
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	Good news! The tank has been finalized. As above, the deposit was given some time ago (two weeks almost now) but the builder, Miracle Tanks in Toronto, needed to know where to drill the holes... all 13 of them... The image and instructions below was sent to them today meaning that we should be on-track for a delivery date of around end of October. The Stand will begin construction in a few weeks as there is no need to open up the wall too early. I think that we (my LFS and I) have come up with some creative solutions for the aquascaping process. Possiblly done before by someone somewhere, because nothings really new anymore, but it should make a drop-fit aquascape... __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/10/2009, 07:35 PM	#14
Lightsluvr Tangaroa to 500 gallons Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,855	Holey moley!!! Thatsa lotta holes! I was worried about the 7 holes in my tank's underbelly... Th eright side looks like it will be "quiet"... Tagging along to watch it go together. LL __________________ Click on my username and select "Lightsluvr's Home Page" for a recap of our build thread - AGE Hybrid Tank in a 500G system with dedicated fish room. (Takes a few minutes for photos to load) Leave a note if you stop by... Current Tank Info: 350G AGE Hybrid reef tank. 500G+ total water volume. Three sumps for filtration. Barracuda Gold return and Hammerhead Gold closed loop pumps. DIY T5 light system on rails. MP40W x3 to supplement closed loop. 130G Water management system.

09/10/2009, 08:26 PM	#15
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	I will admit that Miracles said yes to 9 holes, not 13... so we'll see what they say at this point... maybe they will have to up the glass thickness or who knows... I cannot see why it would be a problem, but then again, I do not make tanks for a living... so until the experts, who will warranty the tank, reply... i'm just going to ignore the potential issue and live in ignorance and bliss... which btw, is an awesome place to call home. __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/10/2009, 08:34 PM	#16
Ed Reef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Currently Based in China Posts: 4,060	13 holes for a 180-g. What base thickness are you going with?? Seems a lot of holes IMO.... Alternatively maybe can run some of the CL along the base of the tank and use a SSB to cover the PVC plumbing as this way you will have less hole. __________________ Ed ~ Art is an adventure into an unknown world, which can only be explored by those willing to take the risks. ~ Current Tank Info: Ed Reef’s Shallow Crest Inspired ART

09/10/2009, 08:58 PM	#17
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	Admittedly, 13 holes is, a few.. What is a SSB? __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/10/2009, 09:52 PM	#18
Ed Reef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Currently Based in China Posts: 4,060	SSB = Single Sand Bed __________________ Ed ~ Art is an adventure into an unknown world, which can only be explored by those willing to take the risks. ~ Current Tank Info: Ed Reef’s Shallow Crest Inspired ART

09/11/2009, 04:21 AM	#19
Lightsluvr Tangaroa to 500 gallons Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Edmond, OK Posts: 5,855	Another way to do a closed loop Here is another option for a closed loop if you don't want too many holes in your tank bottom. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...5&pagenumber=6 Paul is President of COMAS and a frequent contributor to Reefkeeping Magazine. I have seen his finished closed loop in operation...it really gets the flow going in his 600G tank! Just another option for you... LL __________________ Click on my username and select "Lightsluvr's Home Page" for a recap of our build thread - AGE Hybrid Tank in a 500G system with dedicated fish room. (Takes a few minutes for photos to load) Leave a note if you stop by... Current Tank Info: 350G AGE Hybrid reef tank. 500G+ total water volume. Three sumps for filtration. Barracuda Gold return and Hammerhead Gold closed loop pumps. DIY T5 light system on rails. MP40W x3 to supplement closed loop. 130G Water management system.

09/11/2009, 06:03 AM	#20
edandsandy Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: NE Florida Posts: 2,380 Blog Entries: 2	This is going to be an interesting build. Tagging along. __________________ Sandy ><((((º>`•.¸¸.•><((((º>´¯`•><((((º> .¸¸.><((((º>•.¸. , . .•><((((º>.¸¸. Current Tank Info: 375 Reef, 4) Radion LED lights X30 pro, Apex Fusion, Octo Regal 300 E Skimmer, GEO 618 Calcium Reactor 2) Reeflo Snapper pumps, 2)50g refugium, 2) MP 40's

09/11/2009, 07:42 AM	#21
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	@Lightsluvr; thanks for that link... It's an interesting "low hole" option. I'm waiting for feedback from the builder before changing the design, if they are willing to warranty the 13hole crazynes, then I'm charging ahead... if not, now I've got some excellent options. The diagram I posted above is missleading. Each of the closed loops returns is a candidate for being split, and in all honestly, they all likely will be thus giving me 12 points of flow from the 6 holes.. that decision will be made during the aquascaping/DIY rock phase... Each of the CL returns will be controlled with a valve, though I assume that is standard practice. I will also be looking at an Oceans Motions unit for part of the CL, but that's somewhat un-related... At this time, I do think that I will just go ahead with 2 closed loop pumps right from the start. Two gold-series darts will be used because they are a bit more energy efficent when compared to their non-gold series counterparts. Additionally, they provide extra punch in the flow department, however for a while, this will not be required because of the open concept and smaller corals... My personal feeling on flow, in a reef system, and SPS system more specifically, is that it's not about GPH or turnover, but about quality of water movement when it comes to refreshing the micro-thin layer of 'bonded water' on the corals and ensuring suspension for as much waste materail as possible. So i'm more than confident that my first design would be sufficent, for a long time to come.. but I've seen so many tanks with corals grown in, nice and thick, so looking down the road, I've got to try to predict where the dense spots will occur, and be ready with flow today... This part I'm finding already is very limiiting... in a "normal tank" you can just add a pump wherever you need, or tweak some plumbing, etc, etc... this tank will never have a visible piece of plumbing in it, (to the best of my abilities), so I really have to envision the 3 or 4 year "grown out" end-state of the tank and be ready to manage it between day 0 and year 4... I figure by the time year 4 is here, the corals will be pretty much grown in as much as I want, and i'll be into a frag-fest to keep things running.. @Ed Reef; At this point my sand bed depth is TBD, though thanks for the new term.. I'm completely torn on the fish side of this build. From my laymans artistic eye, I feel that there are only one of two ways to stock the tank with fish. Either have one OMG show piece, say a pair of crosshatch triggers, OR, have a teeming mass of the same fish.. say 10 yellow tangs and 30 green chromis... In either secnario, there would obviously be many other fish in the system, but the idea is that from 20 feet away, either design has something that draws the viewer to the "tank". Either the size and splendor of a single fish, or the mass of similar/same color... once the Viewer is "hooked" their eyes woudl then begin to explore the tank and that's where all the blennies, gobies, inverts, mandrin, etc, etc, come into play... the viewer keeps returing to the main image (OMG show piece or mass of similarity) but then reverts to the little details... over and over... creating a "discovery experience".. (OK, i know, i think way,way to much about this stuff... I've even tried to balance the rest of the decore in my house using basic fung shui... but everyone needs an obsession... and I hate the work involed in stalking people... ) So, back to why the sand bed is not determined... of all the fish decisions i've yet to make, leopard wrasses are always at the top of my wish list... wrasses in general are required... also I want to get about 5-8 yellow-headded jawfish... all requiring 3" of sand... a bit more than the SSB and not nearly a DSB... I do not like deep sand beds... or beds over 1"... this is not from personal experience, but from what I've read... however, I do like wrasses and jawfish, and gobies, etc... Anyhow, that's Future Tim's problem... so he can deal with it later... Thanks for reading, Tim __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for. Last edited by Hookup; 09/11/2009 at 07:53 AM.

09/13/2009, 09:18 PM	#22
sean_954 Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coral springs , FL Posts: 50	mmmm 13 holes , mmm .............i'll have to stay tuned to build . __________________ " Good is the enemy of being great " Current Tank Info: Building a 150 Gal ( 48 x 24 x 30 ) still in start mode !!

09/13/2009, 09:19 PM	#23
sean_954 Premium Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Coral springs , FL Posts: 50	mhhh 13 holes , mhhh .............i'll have to stay tuned to build . __________________ " Good is the enemy of being great " Current Tank Info: Building a 150 Gal ( 48 x 24 x 30 ) still in start mode !!

09/16/2009, 08:58 PM	#24
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	I did some updates to my diagram for flow... to ensure that I had enough of the design worked out. On paper, the tank builder has given the thumbs up to the holes and placement. They are laying it out on a sheet of glass to "visualize" the final product before saying no problems. One other "major" change is at this point, i'm planning on driving each of the two closed loop systems using a gold series dart, but also from a single 1.5" input drain as opposed to having 2 x 1.5" drains connecting to the pump... I believe there is enough pressure fromthe tank, sitting 10feet above the pumps, that the 1.5" line will never go dry, and I will use a ball or gate valve on the return line from each closed loop to "slightly" throttle back the return flow, thus ensuring that the pump will never run out of supply water. This now means that each CL has 4 outputs to play with. CL1 is for mass flow... It is on 100% of the time and keeps the water moving in a circular pattern around the long-end of the tank... The two Closed Loop inputs (shown in light blue (Cyan for some))... are also drawing in, 4300gph each, at the left side of the tank... assisting in the mass-flow direction... water pulled out of that side, must be replaced... so there's 8600gph of downward flow in that section... Smiley nice thing about that kind of flow is, its not very focused... and with the hole placement i've shown, and possible splitting of the lines inside the rockwork, it should work out quite nicely to "suck" water down that side... while the green lines, push water across the bottom and back across the top.. CL2 is for turbid flow... It uses an oceans motions device to create that randomness in the flow patterns which will keep detritius suspended until the mass-flow loop (CL1) can carry it to the drain lines. I have so many ideas for how to make these happen, including vertical spray bars inside of the rockwork... it's just too hard to show on this rendering. __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.

09/28/2009, 05:48 PM	#25
Hookup Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Ottawa, Ontario, Canada Posts: 1,281	Just keeping this thread, and my build alive. There has not been any actual progress mainly because it's hurry up and wait for the tank. I expect that the tank is about 4 weeks from delivery (optimistically). I'm going to start building the stand soon and have not decided on the finished product. I know that it will minic LastLights stand because it is truly what I want, in fact I think you'll see a bunch of similarities as time goes bye. One idea that I have is to copy the window treatement from my diningroom onto the stand itself. We just re-did the room, mostly, and the window treatment was something my wife and I DIY'd in a day trying to get a modern/clean look to that room. I like the idea of keeping the fish-tank stand along the same lines. In fact, I ensured that the horizontal line in the window treatement is the same level as the top of the aquarium stand when complete so it will line-up nicely either way. Here are some photos of my dining room to give you an idea what I'm considering for my stand treatment. At any case, the stand will be a simply 2x4 frame skinned out in ply. Just wanted to let everyone know this was not dead, I'm just in the "dead zone" waiting for the next steps. As always, thanks for reading, Tim __________________ Spellking is an art form to which I have no brush. I'm not sure FOWLRs actually exist, I think they're like unicorns or platonic girlfriends. A FOWLR is just a reef tank that doesn't yet hold any coral. Current Tank Info: 180g display, 150gallon sump in-wall 4-side viewable sps dominated tank, ATI Powermodule, MRC MR-4 skimmer, GHL controller, Baling Method, Ultralith Reactor, Carbon & Phosphate Reactors, and general time consuming money pit that I live for.