micro bubble issues..how to solve?

Racenrich · 02/09/2006, 10:37 AM

well since i dont have Elite membership i cant do a search to find my answers....

so i must ask fellow reefers if they can help me out.

i have a 120g with a 40g sump plumbed into the basment......everything is up and running smoothly now..yet i have serious issue with way too many micro bubbles returning to the tank upstairs..

here is a thread with photos:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...93#post6511493

Granite its up and running now......i do have a 3 tier baffle in place as well as a 10 micron sock, which is temporary.
Yet i still have WAY too many bubbles

Could this be the return?
how about the top hole of the durso pipes? will making them smaller or larger effect the bubbles?
any way to plumb to avoid such a issue?

any info would be greatly appreciated!
Thanks,
Rich K.

BlueBadger · 02/09/2006, 11:26 AM

Rich,
If you are sure it is your return, I would check all you plumbing joints for a small pin hole leak. This could cause air to be sucked in. I had a few leaks and I just put some silicon over the joints and they went away....Just a thought...

Dan

Stile2 · 02/09/2006, 11:29 AM

With the 3 tier baffle and 10 micron sock in place, are you sure that the buubles aren't coming from the Closed loop? Maybe a dumb question but I would shut down the closed loop and see how many bubbles you have.

If you still have them they might be coming from the return plumbing. Even a small hole in a pvc joint can cause a venturi effect and cause bubbles.

How much have you played the trial and error game?

Keith

integlikewhoa · 02/09/2006, 11:31 AM

Its possible its from the retun pipe. But i usally find its not. I would more say the bubbles are in the sump from somthing else and then getting sucked up by the main pump getting sent to the tank. is there any bubbles in the the sump getting sucked in?

rustybucket145 · 02/09/2006, 11:55 AM

I kinda have this same problem on my 90 gal w/ 30 gal sump. Is there a way to check the plumbing fittings to see where the problem is?

Craig Lambert · 02/09/2006, 12:24 PM

I think you should give the system 3 or 4 weeks in order for a layer of biomaterial to build up on the inside of the pipes before trying to fix things. Also, your skimmer may be the source of microbubbles as well. If it is new or has been recently cleaned, it could be the source and may take care of itself after a few weeks.

Racenrich · 02/09/2006, 12:33 PM

whoa, couple of great thoughts here.

Dan,
someone mentioned that to me....im going to silicone all fitting on return to verify if that is it or not. you coming to the swap in stegar sat? maybe you can stop by?

Stile2.....yeah i beat to it...CL has been off for a week now. needed to be sure. That Seasquirt works AWEsome! no bubbles there.

integlikewhoa....i think that is the issue....way too many in the sump and the baffle can only minimize some......

here is a shot from last night.......

Thanks for the ideas......any more would be greatly appreciated!

Stile2 · 02/09/2006, 01:22 PM

Well you may not want to hear and I may be wrong, but I think that part of the problem is that the baffles are to close together.

You could try to add another baffle and have the final flow into the return section go under the the final baffle. I know not the easiest thing to do.

Another thing you might try is to get a 4"-6" pvc pipe about 1" shorter than you lowest water level in the return section. Drill a hole in the side of the pipe and plumb the return intake into the pipe with a 90 degree elbow facing down. Kinda like an extra baffle.

Just some ideas.

Keith

LobsterOfJustice · 02/09/2006, 02:31 PM

If you throttle back the return you will have less flow through the sump, giving the bubbles more time to pop. Most people do not want to sacrifice flow but sometimes its a good option.

Racenrich · 02/09/2006, 03:03 PM

keith,
baffles are usually 1 inch apart, i made mine 1.5...doh, hope that is not it....i can always drain and redo some.....nothing in tank yet, just fresh salt water and a sand bed as of now......a may have to consider the extra baffle or something.....

Lobster....yes that does help, ive tried that....

But I really hate to turn down the flow..im putting about, calculated,
1330gph through the system...overlfow can handle 1440gph.....
What if i put another return corner section in?

PS i have all the SPS you need....email me, racenrich@wideopenwest.com, and I can set you up...especially since im doing an upgrade right now!
i have LOTS!

Thanks for the input.

Rich

mr pink floyd · 02/09/2006, 03:12 PM

at the top of the return, try to slow the flow down, then put in a cap, where no water runs, so the lighter air can escape, this means high water flow most likely

Racenrich · 02/09/2006, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mr pink floyd
at the top of the return, try to slow the flow down, then put in a cap, where no water runs, so the lighter air can escape, this means high water flow most likely

Is that like a durso in the sump then, reversed?

i would use "t's" where my 90's are at and put a cap on top with air hole?

SCR · 02/09/2006, 04:15 PM

You look like you have the same pump as I do and I can't get rid of the micro bubbles. I think it's the pump. I'am going to try a mag 18 and put it in the sump, if it work I'll keep the other pump as a back-up just in case. (Trial and error)

Racenrich · 02/09/2006, 11:04 PM

im able to put a sheet of filter floss on the 3rd baffle and that helps alot, yet i still need to find a resolution.....

im going to try a few different ideas and see what happens.

floyd gave me an idea i will have to try out.

integlikewhoa · 02/10/2006, 12:32 AM

So the filter floss fixes it? The you just need to spread out the baffles for a permenet solution, or slow the flow. The baffles are to close and there is to much water going threw that small baffle area. The current is going so fast its just pushin the bubbles right threw. By spaceing the baffles out it give a bigger area and slows the water down which lets the bubbles stay at the top and pop insted of ridding the current down. Also in the return area bring the water level up above the hight of the last baffle this with get ride of the water fall that creates bubbles too. And it will also allow the bubbles to make it over go to the top and pop instend or ridding the water fall down to the intake.

02/09/2006, 10:37 AM	#1
Racenrich Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NWI, St. John Posts: 2,083	micro bubble issues..how to solve? well since i dont have Elite membership i cant do a search to find my answers.... so i must ask fellow reefers if they can help me out. i have a 120g with a 40g sump plumbed into the basment......everything is up and running smoothly now..yet i have serious issue with way too many micro bubbles returning to the tank upstairs.. here is a thread with photos: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...93#post6511493 Granite its up and running now......i do have a 3 tier baffle in place as well as a 10 micron sock, which is temporary. Yet i still have WAY too many bubbles Could this be the return? how about the top hole of the durso pipes? will making them smaller or larger effect the bubbles? any way to plumb to avoid such a issue? any info would be greatly appreciated! Thanks, Rich K.

02/09/2006, 11:29 AM	#3
Stile2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yucaipa, California (some little town you've never heard of) Posts: 1,624	With the 3 tier baffle and 10 micron sock in place, are you sure that the buubles aren't coming from the Closed loop? Maybe a dumb question but I would shut down the closed loop and see how many bubbles you have. If you still have them they might be coming from the return plumbing. Even a small hole in a pvc joint can cause a venturi effect and cause bubbles. How much have you played the trial and error game? Keith __________________ If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! Current Tank Info: 77 Gallon Custom peninsula 3 sides viewable, DIY Steel Stand, OM Squirt, 2 x 250 w MH, 2 x 95 w VHO, DIY Skimmer

02/09/2006, 11:31 AM	#4
integlikewhoa Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 1,381	Its possible its from the retun pipe. But i usally find its not. I would more say the bubbles are in the sump from somthing else and then getting sucked up by the main pump getting sent to the tank. is there any bubbles in the the sump getting sucked in? __________________ I think of one later. Current Tank Info: 28G JBJ Nano for sale

02/09/2006, 11:55 AM	#5
rustybucket145 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: valdosta, ga Posts: 3,707	I kinda have this same problem on my 90 gal w/ 30 gal sump. Is there a way to check the plumbing fittings to see where the problem is? __________________ 400gals of various tanks in the same system. Current Tank Info: 2 175w MH, 2 VH0 Actinics, Lots of Live Rock, tons of copepods, a Fat Mandarin Goby, Niger Trigger, Yellow Tang, Falco Hawkfish, Bi-Color Pseudo, numerous soft, SPS and LPS Corals

02/09/2006, 12:24 PM	#6
Craig Lambert Premium Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,897	I think you should give the system 3 or 4 weeks in order for a layer of biomaterial to build up on the inside of the pipes before trying to fix things. Also, your skimmer may be the source of microbubbles as well. If it is new or has been recently cleaned, it could be the source and may take care of itself after a few weeks. __________________ "Give a man a fish and you feed him for a day. Teach a man to fish and he will spend all day in a boat drinking beer." Current Tank Info: 75G Tank, 29G Sump, 100lbs LR, AquaC EV-180, Iwaki MD-20RT return Tunze nano streams 4X54 t-5/Icecap Ballast & SLR's 2x110 vho actinic

02/09/2006, 11:26 AM	#2
BlueBadger Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Munster, IN Posts: 201	Rich, If you are sure it is your return, I would check all you plumbing joints for a small pin hole leak. This could cause air to be sucked in. I had a few leaks and I just put some silicon over the joints and they went away....Just a thought... Dan

02/09/2006, 12:33 PM	#7
Racenrich Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NWI, St. John Posts: 2,083	whoa, couple of great thoughts here. Dan, someone mentioned that to me....im going to silicone all fitting on return to verify if that is it or not. you coming to the swap in stegar sat? maybe you can stop by? Stile2.....yeah i beat to it...CL has been off for a week now. needed to be sure. That Seasquirt works AWEsome! no bubbles there. integlikewhoa....i think that is the issue....way too many in the sump and the baffle can only minimize some...... here is a shot from last night....... Thanks for the ideas......any more would be greatly appreciated! __________________ Home of the $15 FRAGS... Current Tank Info: 67g long (72x12x18), 30g Sump....10.5.yr old watchman golby!

02/09/2006, 01:22 PM	#8
Stile2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Yucaipa, California (some little town you've never heard of) Posts: 1,624	Well you may not want to hear and I may be wrong, but I think that part of the problem is that the baffles are to close together. You could try to add another baffle and have the final flow into the return section go under the the final baffle. I know not the easiest thing to do. Another thing you might try is to get a 4"-6" pvc pipe about 1" shorter than you lowest water level in the return section. Drill a hole in the side of the pipe and plumb the return intake into the pipe with a 90 degree elbow facing down. Kinda like an extra baffle. Just some ideas. Keith __________________ If you have a college degree, you can be sure of one thing. You have a college degree! Superman owns Chuck Norris Pajamas!! Current Tank Info: 77 Gallon Custom peninsula 3 sides viewable, DIY Steel Stand, OM Squirt, 2 x 250 w MH, 2 x 95 w VHO, DIY Skimmer

02/09/2006, 02:31 PM	#9
LobsterOfJustice Recovering Detritophobe Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Cary, NC Posts: 7,443	If you throttle back the return you will have less flow through the sump, giving the bubbles more time to pop. Most people do not want to sacrifice flow but sometimes its a good option. __________________ If it's worth doing, it's worth doing right. I remember when zoanthids were called things like "green" and "orange" and not "reverse gorilla nipple." Current Tank Info: 180g reef with all the bells and whistles

02/09/2006, 03:03 PM	#10
Racenrich Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NWI, St. John Posts: 2,083	keith, baffles are usually 1 inch apart, i made mine 1.5...doh, hope that is not it....i can always drain and redo some.....nothing in tank yet, just fresh salt water and a sand bed as of now......a may have to consider the extra baffle or something..... Lobster....yes that does help, ive tried that.... But I really hate to turn down the flow..im putting about, calculated, 1330gph through the system...overlfow can handle 1440gph..... What if i put another return corner section in? PS i have all the SPS you need....email me, racenrich@wideopenwest.com, and I can set you up...especially since im doing an upgrade right now! i have LOTS! Thanks for the input. Rich __________________ Home of the $15 FRAGS... Current Tank Info: 67g long (72x12x18), 30g Sump....10.5.yr old watchman golby!

02/09/2006, 03:12 PM	#11
mr pink floyd Moved On Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: west hartford, CT Posts: 3,480	at the top of the return, try to slow the flow down, then put in a cap, where no water runs, so the lighter air can escape, this means high water flow most likely

02/09/2006, 04:15 PM	#13
SCR Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Central, Fl Posts: 708	You look like you have the same pump as I do and I can't get rid of the micro bubbles. I think it's the pump. I'am going to try a mag 18 and put it in the sump, if it work I'll keep the other pump as a back-up just in case. (Trial and error)

02/09/2006, 11:04 PM	#14
Racenrich Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: NWI, St. John Posts: 2,083	im able to put a sheet of filter floss on the 3rd baffle and that helps alot, yet i still need to find a resolution..... im going to try a few different ideas and see what happens. floyd gave me an idea i will have to try out. __________________ Home of the $15 FRAGS... Current Tank Info: 67g long (72x12x18), 30g Sump....10.5.yr old watchman golby!

02/10/2006, 12:32 AM	#15
integlikewhoa Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Arcadia, CA Posts: 1,381	So the filter floss fixes it? The you just need to spread out the baffles for a permenet solution, or slow the flow. The baffles are to close and there is to much water going threw that small baffle area. The current is going so fast its just pushin the bubbles right threw. By spaceing the baffles out it give a bigger area and slows the water down which lets the bubbles stay at the top and pop insted of ridding the current down. Also in the return area bring the water level up above the hight of the last baffle this with get ride of the water fall that creates bubbles too. And it will also allow the bubbles to make it over go to the top and pop instend or ridding the water fall down to the intake. __________________ I think of one later. Current Tank Info: 28G JBJ Nano for sale