LaCl Reactor

[worm5406]

This keeps her mind off things too!!!

Keep that head up Terri_Ann!!!

[terri_ann]

Originally Posted by terri_ann

For some reason, I can't get to your photobucket Can you post it for me? Nevermind, it showed up when I did your quote...strange?! OK, that helps!

I have the dosing solution dropping in from the top/middle/center hole. The water flows from one end and out the other. You would think that it would not clog there because of the gravity and water flowing into/past it, but it does.

[awais98]

Originally Posted by terri_ann

I have the dosing solution dropping in from the top/middle/center hole. The water flows from one end and out the other. You would think that it would not clog there because of the gravity and water flowing into/past it, but it does.

I've just set it up yesterday, will see how it goes.

[terri_ann]

Good Awais! I'm anxious to hear :0) Mine didn't clog at first...just once. But weeks later, that's when it started happening quite regularly ;9(

[terri_ann]

Shorty, the sandbed is about 1". I baste the rocks off regularly (sometimes daily) and stuff fills the water column ;9( I also have a pretty open rock sculpture but I could use a powerhead or 2 behind the rocks. Finding outlets is a problem though :9( I feed my fish well, probably too much compared to others but my blue hippo tang and foxface are full grown and nourished well! My purple tang isn't small by any stretch of the imagination. I'm sure the rock continues to leach PO4. So, the high PO4 is a combination of things.

I have the nitrates really low: .5ppm. Maybe that's why some of the SPS's are turning pale :9( I think I can get the PO4 at a reasonable level without having to dose 15secs every 30. I'm not running that as a maintenace dose. Just trying to get it down quickly but like I said, it clogs up, I run the solution dry/empty or need to change out sediment filter/floss...so up the PO4 goes ;9( I'm working on it now that I have time to focus on it ;0) Hopefully one of you guys' will find a solution to keep the LaCl from clogging/blocking :0)

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by awais98

I've just set it up yesterday, will see how it goes.

Are you using an RO flow restrictor tube? What exactly are you using?

Terri_ann, how are you encorporating a micron filter into your design. If I remember correctly, you use a filter sock or something in addition to the packed filter floss? You are also outputting straight into a skimmer?
Also, sounds like you are probably on the right track.

By the way.. I went to start testing my work so far with a temporary setup and very weak dosing solution, and of course needed to test my PO4 before starting. It was already at .07. Lol. Im pretty sure my GFO has been run out for a while too, and when that happens, I normally see it get as high as .13-.15... I'm guessing mine is actually closer to .11. I'm hoping I can test out this dosing reactor, get some baseline numbers (for example dose at this schedule for x hours/days to reduce PO4 Y amount), and hopefully only use it when needed. I'm hoping a small amout of carbon and NO3 dosing to more regularly keep things stable.

It seems that this reactor would be good for carbon dosing as well as the LaCl3. Good contained surface area for the bacterial growth. Any comments on that?

[terri_ann]

After the last reactor (floss/filter) the water goes into a 5 micron filter sock which is positioned directly above my skimmer pump intake. Oh, I also don't think that any unreacted solution is getting past the skimmer section. The reason I say that is my purple tang (blue hippo and foxface) has always appeared fine :0), I believe there is plenty of contact/reaction time before it gets to the return pump, I have never let the 5 micron sock overflow and, I have never seen a (white) haze on the acrylic tank.

I too was "hoping" to only need to run the reactor as needed...lol ;0) There was a time when I "almost" had the chaeto dead from low nutrients...........almost! I don't think there's any (or very,very little) PO4 in the sandbed. It's not been in the tank very long. It's just in the viewing area and I use the turkey baster on it a couple times a month.

I might add if I haven't alreaady, I dose vinegar throughout the day with a BRS 1.1ml doser. Like a dodo bird, I was reading the Salifert nitrate test results wrong! It's at .5ppm so there is probably an imbalance between the NO3 and PO4...isn't there some kind of correlation or is it just my imagination? Anyway, the bacteria from carbon dosing has really helped ;0) The bacteria really coats/adheres to the sediment/floss filters and regularly I dump out dime-size globs at the base of the reactor. I quit using a filter on the drain pipt as bacteria would cause it to overflow in a couple/3 days.

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by terri_ann

I might add if I haven't alreaady, I dose vinegar throughout the day with a BRS 1.1ml doser. Like a dodo bird, I was reading the Salifert nitrate test results wrong! It's at .5ppm so there is probably an imbalance between the NO3 and PO4...isn't there some kind of correlation or is it just my imagination? Anyway, the bacteria from carbon dosing has really helped ;0) The bacteria really coats/adheres to the sediment/floss filters and regularly I dump out dime-size globs at the base of the reactor. I quit using a filter on the drain pipt as bacteria would cause it to overflow in a couple/3 days.

There is a correlation with carbon nitrogen and phosphorus called the redfield ratio. This ratio is a general guideline (and someone will most likely chime in and correct at least one thing I say), not a hard fast rule; but the theory explains that certain bacteria need 3 elements to reproduce - carbon, nitrogen, and phosphorus. The general ratio those are consumed is 116:16:1. This is supported by practical experience in a few ways. Phosphorus is typically the 'trouble child' and harder to get rid of - the reason being it is only consumed 1/16th As quickly as nitrogen, and 1/116th as quickly as carbon. Vinegar is a way of adding carbon to a system so that more nitrogen and phosphorus can be consumed by the bacteria. That bacteria should then be skimmed out (aka exported).

That's part of why I was asking about you NO3 number before... Just to get a better picture of what's happening in your system. You can dose all the carbon you want, and if there's no or little nitrogen, then consummation of both the other two elements, the carbon and the phosphorus won't be consumed, or will only be consumed as quickly as nitrogen is produced.

So as far as saying imbalance, most systems probably don't have a perfect balance... Which is why people use GFO, or dose LaCL3, or dose NO3.. In my mind a true balanced system wouldn't need these additions.

That's my understanding somewhat boiled down...

[terri_ann]

Wow Shorty!! Thank you for the explanation!! I tried reading on the redfield ratio but I couldn't concentrate nor understand what I was reading. ;9( Thanks! So nitrogen is a gas, I know that but I don't know/understand any more than that. Is it made in the tank or is it just an atom in the atmosphere? Can we get more of that in our tanks? Would that be good?

[awais98]

Originally Posted by _shorty_

Are you using an RO flow restrictor tube? What exactly are you using?

Well, the above pictures you see, i was experimenting with a a IV cannula, the blue one is a plstic dilator. I am now actually using a thoracentesis catheter that has multiple fenestration in the tip and it is longer then the other 2 u see in the pic!
My hope is as the tip will be into the flow of water continuosly it will not clog and #2: as I am dosing small quantities frequently via a dose....that the small amount actually reaches the water...

Ill post some pics of the finaly reactor..

[awais98]

Im using he BRS GFO/carbon reactor for this, first cannister is mepty fo the contact and then it goes through the lint and small amount of carbon filled 2nd cannister.
The output from there goes into the inlet of the skimmer pump..

This is the inlet to the reactor.
A Y with
1:water inlet from a manifold from the return pump
2: Inlet for the LaCl2...you see the 1/2 to 1/4 reducer ( black one) and then a 1/4 red tubing and us ee inside it...the thoracentesis catheter that i inserted....it fits in there snugly.....hopeing LaCl2 will reach the continiously flowing water... delivering smallest dose right into thewtaer, without stagnating.......


........more to follow....

[terri_ann]

Are you using a an IV bag? I hope that works :0)

[worm5406]

Hey terri... I added something new:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2379796

Still in QT but getting there.

[awais98]

Not using IV bag.
Dont think gravity will push that LaCl2 through the fast flowing closed system

Originally Posted by terri_ann

Are you using a an IV bag? I hope that works :0)

[awais98]

Thats the outlet of the reactor




The outlet goes into the skimmer pump intake


The dosing pumps



dont forget the check valve at the end of the LaCl2 line before entering the Y

[terri_ann]

Originally Posted by worm5406

Hey terri... I added something new:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2379796

Still in QT but getting there.

I want it's offspring :0) Just don't know where I'd put it :9(

I'm going to have to take some pics!!

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by awais98

Im using he BRS GFO/carbon reactor for this, first cannister is mepty fo the contact and then it goes through the lint and small amount of carbon filled 2nd cannister.
The output from there goes into the inlet of the skimmer pump..

This is the inlet to the reactor.
A Y with
1:water inlet from a manifold from the return pump
2: Inlet for the LaCl2...you see the 1/2 to 1/4 reducer ( black one) and then a 1/4 red tubing and us ee inside it...the thoracentesis catheter that i inserted....it fits in there snugly.....hopeing LaCl2 will reach the continiously flowing water... delivering smallest dose right into thewtaer, without stagnating.......

Your design is well thought out. I like it. 2 questions: 1) where do I get those catheter parts...? I have a nurse friend. Would it be a big deal to ask him for them? And if I did, what exactly should I ask for?
2) what are you thoughts on my reaction chamber? Should I nix the routed pipes except for the innermost, to maximize water volume? I'm thinking either way, that I might add a recirculation pump.

[awais98]

Originally Posted by _shorty_

Your design is well thought out. I like it. 2 questions: 1) where do I get those catheter parts...? I have a nurse friend. Would it be a big deal to ask him for them? And if I did, what exactly should I ask for?

2) what are you thoughts on my reaction chamber? Should I nix the routed pipes except for the innermost, to maximize water volume? I'm thinking either way, that I might add a recirculation pump.

1: you can ask your Nurse friend, esp if she/ he works in ICU, it should be easy. I used a thoracentesis catheter just coz it's longer and has multiple fenestrations around the tip, if you can get that great, or any long iv cannula should work similar. Often unused kits expire and then they r discarded, I use that.

2: I'd let your design be the way it is with multiple pipes it doesn't harm anything, Infact better contact time. Try it that way and see. Your/ our first reaction chamber is small, I wouldn't care for a recirc pump there...... Give it a try the way it is.

Also, as terry ann pointed that the tip
Gets clogged.... Well at that point I'll have a replacement ready while I soak it in vinegar and reuse it.....

Atleast that's how I am thinking.
Good luck

[worm5406]

Originally Posted by terri_ann

I want it's offspring :0) Just don't know where I'd put it :9(

I'm going to have to take some pics!!

Yes you are... and Where are the pictures?

[_shorty_]

Originally Posted by awais98

1: you can ask your Nurse friend, esp if she/ he works in ICU, it should be easy. I used a thoracentesis catheter just coz it's longer and has multiple fenestrations around the tip, if you can get that great, or any long iv cannula should work similar. Often unused kits expire and then they r discarded, I use that.

Thanks for info and input.

[awais98]

Will keep posted how it works out

[terri_ann]

I definitely like the thoracentesis cath! I sure hope it works! :0) I know some of the problems that I'm having is caused from the high bacteria count. Tonight I had about a gallon of water somehow and somewhere leak out and into the plastic box that holds the reactors. The filter was saturated with precip and there was alot of bacteria in the filter, canisters, fittings and tubing. I don't know if the bacteria coating everything could be causing the solution to dwell at the "T" and thus causing the clogging? I have turned off the vinegar for now. I'm still trying to find the right amount of vinegar to dose and then hopefully I won't have all that bacteria causing problems with the LaCl setup ;0)

[terri_ann]

Originally Posted by worm5406

Yes you are... and Where are the pictures?

Just be patient My pride and joy is splitting so it has to finish and recover. I'm not the fastest person anymore They will come

[terri_ann]

How's it working Awais?

I'm curious: is there additional sump water entering the skimmer pump inlet or is it just the flow from the LaCl reactor?

[_shorty_]

I'm also curious. Have you gotten your dosing amounts dialed in? If so, what are you using, and how are your PO4 test results?

I'm currently still waiting on my dosing pump/motors in the mail.. from China.. and it's KILLING me on how long it's taking. It's okay, I'm waiting on new PO4 test reagents anyway.