Coral Maternity in Portugal

[H.a.Z]

So I suppose it would be nice with a valve and a Y bend before such a compartment.

[Machado deSousa]

I thought the same, but there are two more tanks on the top shelf of the stand with 200g each, waiting to run and, consequently, more than 2000g per hour would run out of the sediment retainer ...

[Plankt0s]

wow, its nice to see some new pics.

[double0banks]

Just finished reading and taking notes. Great setup, truely the best grow out setup that I've seen.

[Machado deSousa]

I'm glad you like the thread and am pleased you were able to glean some useful information.

[H20ENG]

Machado, you and your helpers make it look so easy! It would be great to see the steps involved in cutting the glass, setting up the panels for sealing, etc.

On the sediment trap, the velocity is the key to letting detritus fall out. For whatever flowrate you have, you need to get the velocity down to 1 foot per second or so. So with a lot of flow, unfortunately this means a wider tank (longer does not help).

Your design is fine, just bypass some of the flow to another area if possible to slow the flow in that section down a bit.

I forget, do you use commercial supplements or make your own balling mixes? At your volume, you would do well to buy large food grade sacks of those chemicals you are using

[Machado deSousa]

Originally posted by H20ENG
Machado, you and your helpers make it look so easy! It would be great to see the steps involved in cutting the glass, setting up the panels for sealing, etc.

The guys have really done a good job.
Unfortunately, I have no pics showing such steps but I can try to explain you how it was done:
There was a single hole on the pane which separate the compartment (1) from the remaining sump. The first step was to obstruct it with a little piece of glass fixed on the submerged side of the sump using epoxy because it hardens down the water. With the hole obstructed there wasn’t any problem emptying the compartment (1).
To drill the new holes we needed the opposite side of the pan without water. So, the second step as to fix a rectangular piece of glass, vertically, with epoxy all around (bottom and both vertical sides) to create the "dried column".
The third step was to empty the corner getting this way the empty space in the �the dried column�. After that, all 3 holes could be drilled.
The fourth step was to refill the compartment (1) with water coming from the sump while adding the same volume of new saltwater to the system to compensate.
After the compartment (1) and sediment retainer be refilled with water, the upper part of the glass, referred in the second scheme of my post as “to be broken after the holes done�, could be broken to enlarge the channel.
I should post some pics of the corner viewed from above.

Originally posted by H20ENG
On the sediment trap, the velocity is the key to letting detritus fall out. For whatever flowrate you have, you need to get the velocity down to 1 foot per second or so. So with a lot of flow, unfortunately this means a wider tank (longer does not help).

I agree with you when you say that the velocity is the key to letting detritus fall out but not when you say that longer does not help.
The key of this retainer is his particular design. The water is forced to flow upward and backward and the sediments tend to fall down when the water rises (and slowly flows over the parallel backward glasses). The longer the sediment retainer the slower the water rising. The same happens with larger retainers. JMO.
The up-spring effect on the water surface produced by the upward flowing water in a laminar regime is very, very nice! My last shot gives a small idea how it does.

Originally posted by H20ENG
Your design is fine, just bypass some of the flow to another area if possible to slow the flow in that section down a bit.

The problem is that I need to prepare the sump for the next upgrades. I have two more tanks wating for to run and by now 2,000g wuold bypass the sediment retainer and with the next tanks running much more water wuold bypass.

Originally posted by H20ENG
I forget, do you use commercial supplements or make your own balling mixes? At your volume, you would do well to buy large food grade sacks of those chemicals you are using

I buy the main products 30 pounds bulks.

Cheers,

[H20ENG]

Thanks Machado,
By "longer does not help", I mean that if the water is flowing at 5fps over the first baffle, at the end of a hundred baffles, the flow would still be the same. Thus the detritus would still be carried with it, and not settle.

Increasing the cross sectional area for a given flowrate is the only way to slow the velocity. That is why I mentioned wider not longer I know you are well versed in the mechanics of water flow

I am also curious as to the amount of detritus you get from just corals, and its consistency? I know you have some fish and mangroves too.
Thanks for your reply,
Chris

[simmons797]

Originally posted by H20ENG
Thanks Machado,
By "longer does not help", I mean that if the water is flowing at 5fps over the first baffle, at the end of a hundred baffles, the flow would still be the same. Thus the detritus would still be carried with it, and not settle.

Increasing the cross sectional area for a given flowrate is the only way to slow the velocity. That is why I mentioned wider not longer I know you are well versed in the mechanics of water flow

I am also curious as to the amount of detritus you get from just corals, and its consistency? I know you have some fish and mangroves too.
Thanks for your reply,
Chris

A longer tank is exactly what would work. Look at the construction again and the flow pattern.

[Machado deSousa]

Chris, thank you for your reply, I'm liking very much to talk with you about this issue. I saw your profile and I think that I can learn a lot with your skills and experience.

Originally posted by H20ENG

..Increasing the cross sectional area for a given flowrate is the only way to slow the velocity. That is why I mentioned wider not longer

...

Ok, H20ENG, I understand what you are saying but I think I have not explained clearly my point of view, may be because English is not my mother language. When I say that the velocity of the water reduces for a longer sediment retainer I am not talking about horizontal water flowing. I'm just talking about the ascensional water flowing between the baffles in the sediment retainer. In this case, the cross sectional area is S = distance between the baffles x retainer width x number of baffles. So, having a longer retainer = more baffles = more cross sectional area = lower velocity in the rising water.

Originally posted by H20ENG
I am also curious as to the amount of detritus you get from just corals, and its consistency? I know you have some fish and mangroves too.
Thanks for your reply,
Chris

I like to feed my corals and fishes and after some time the detritus have tendency to accumulate. I have no precipitations. My mangroves were a bonsai before be moved to my prop. They are more then 15 years old, but actually they are free to grow because I have space over them.
Thanks for your comments,

Cheers,

[Ibhar]

hey machado whats your ati bulb ratio with growth vs color in your differnt tanks?

thanks logan

[Machado deSousa]

Hi logan!
Using ATI Aquablue Spezial (60%) and Blue Plus (40%) I have good growths and the visual effect is not so nice. If I don't worry about growth I like 50% each to get more colorful corals.
Cheers,

[H20ENG]

Machado,
Thanks for the reply. I went back and looked again closely at your design. I thought that your baffles were touching at the bottom, at which all the flow would simply flow past the tops of them. My apologies for my haste.

Yes, in your configuration, longer would make for slower velocity. It would be better to have no flow along the bottom to give the detritus a chance to settle completely, but I completely understand the lack of space to do so.

This pic got me.


This one made it clear.

[fair standards]

First off Machado, let me say that what you are doing is terrific and i wish that more people would take the attitude about the hobby that you do.

Now, as to RC calling you a commercial venture......I'm passing this question on to the department of Labor because the Reef Central rules only state the following:

Reef Central defines “commercial post� as knowing and willful posts made by private individuals or businesses, directly or indirectly seeking commerce. Additionally, posts made by individuals or businesses in regard to other commercial activities, in anticipation of direct or indirect economic benefit or relief from the subject activity, will generally be regarded as “commercial.�

They then go on to state that RC gets to decide who is actually a commercial entity and who is not.

Now I specifically know that certain individuals that are not in ANY LEGAL WAY considered a business have been branded a commercial vendor by RC. Additionally, I know that there are certain individuals that have a "special" relationship with RC and that have a much larger and much more "for profit" operation have been allowed to stay on the boards.

So, unless RC gets off their butts and finally make a decision as to what defines a commercial entity and what does not, they have no right to deny anyone the right to operate on the boards. If there is any abuse to this policy, please send an email to fairstandardsact@gmail.com.

Now, I'm sure RC is going to stifle this post but, by law, they can not inhibit free speech........especially since this does not go against any of their rules. So, as soon as I see that this post has been removed or closed, I will also pass this on to the department of labor and the FCC. If necessary, they can be brought up on charges of unfair business practices.

[2farNorth]

Not sure if I wanted to get in the middle of this, but I think 'Machado deSousa' said it best when someone asked what he does with all the frags......

his reply was ----

I keep them in my tanks and I don't sell to anybody and I explain you why. Selling I make money and I loose corals. I spend too much time taking care of my babies. As I said before, most reefers like to see the corals growing in their own aquariums and see them become bigger and bigger. I like too when mine progress, but in a different way: not in larger colonies but in rows of frags. My goal is rows and rows of frags...and to see my name in the Guinness book...let me dream... lol

A little more research would help your case......

Even though I personally know RC members that have been banned because of being accused 'commercial', RC makes the rules.... and they have the right to not let any of us post on the boards if they feel the need...

Free speech, yes... but when it is on a privately run site, you are a guest here, enjoy the hobby, and play by the rules..... even if there are 'gray areas'


Over an hour and a half, I'm really surprised that there hasn't been a response..... from anyone! (well besides me!!)

[2farNorth]

Oops, sorry.... almost forgot!!



To Reef Central

Great first post!!

[Machado deSousa]

Originally posted by H20ENG
Machado,
Thanks for the reply. I went back and looked again closely at your design.
....

Hi Chris, as I wrote before, this design is not mine. I was inspired in a Delbeek and J. Sprung book.
Thanks for your reply.

Cheers,

[Machado deSousa]

Hi folks,

I would like to take a moment and thank everyone for helping to make this thread what it is (was)...just in case...

Cheers,

[Aquagold]

By actually posting in this section, or in any other section and putting up a photograph of your newly bought wanderfully bright amazing coral that everyone else is envious you have. You automatically have every reefer in your area giving you a pm asking when you frag it to keep them in mind.....
So if you post on here and show you have twenty frags of a certain group of corals you assume they will someday go out the door, either sold or traded.
Either way I'm glad I don't make the rules and have to enforce them.
Just wish we had half the colourful corals you guys seem to get...
and at the cheap prices you pay. Try $120 for a brown small Ricordea single polp...
Great site and some amazing experiences being shared on here!

Rob

[mhurley]

Hi Fairstandards and welcome (back?) to RC.

Originally posted by fair standards

Now I specifically know that certain individuals that are not in ANY LEGAL WAY considered a business have been branded a commercial vendor by RC. Additionally, I know that there are certain individuals that have a "special" relationship with RC and that have a much larger and much more "for profit" operation have been allowed to stay on the boards.

Two problems with your post above.

1. Nowhere does the User Agreement state you have to be a "business" and that's by design.
2. You clearly do not understand our User Agreement and what it is trying to do. Nobody is saying commercial people can't be on RC. We're saying commercial people cannot use our forums to sell things. The only exception to that is for our sponsors who are limited to selling within their sponsor forums. There are many, many commercial members of RC...they just know and understand the rules of what they can post about.

Originally posted by fair standards

So, unless RC gets off their butts and finally make a decision as to what defines a commercial entity and what does not, they have no right to deny anyone the right to operate on the boards. If there is any abuse to this policy, please send an email to fairstandardsact@gmail.com.

This is a privately owned site and the very User Agreement you signed when joining (again) states that we have the right to remove any member for any reason. If the owner of RC decided tomorrow that he only wanted postings about chocolate chip cookies and would ban everyone that doesn't post about them, he can do that.

You should really read up on what your "right to free speech" means. It clearly does not mean what you think it means.

Originally posted by fair standards

Now, I'm sure RC is going to stifle this post but, by law, they can not inhibit free speech........especially since this does not go against any of their rules. So, as soon as I see that this post has been removed or closed, I will also pass this on to the department of labor and the FCC. If necessary, they can be brought up on charges of unfair business practices.

The department of labor...now that's the funniest thing we've been threatened with in a long, long time. Thanks for the chuckle this morning. Oh and, reference again my statement above about this being a privately owned site.

[Zurk]

Hello,

I was going to make a post on epoxy, and saw that Machado's post had some news and decided to check.

Before all, I must say I'm a friend of Machado and have been following the Maternity since it was just an idea in Machado's head, more than 5 years ago.

In my profession, the commercial activities are always welcomed (couldn't survive without them).

About the commercial intends of Machado, unfortunately he never decided to do that, not that I'm not 100% for it, and always trying to persuade him to.

I remember, one year ago saying: You must sell some of this.
And he said: Why ?
I replied: Why not ? It's not normal, to have this massive production without selling any.
And Machado answered: Why not ? I like it. And, by the way, how's to say what normality is ?

A stubborn type, I say.

The destination of the corals ..... I don't know if I can say this, but, I've been offered a few, and, besides me, there must be others. And even being the Lord of the Frags (as someone called him) there are experiments that don't work so great (he has a bucket full of bad experiences - dead corals) and the system is still growing.

Machado also has a topic on the Portuguese’s forums, and let me say, they do not have half of the information posted here. He once told me: Pedro, you can't imagine, if I say something at Reefcentral, people make me all kinds of questions, and there’s experience sharing, in there. It's amazing.

For a commercial propose, I think Machado had already went too far: He explains everything to everyone, with photos and detailed information. Who does that, with commercial propose ?

If he wanted to sell, believe me, he would have clients for it (even I get bombed with people asking: Could you ask your friend to sell me some frags ? I would not tell anyone.

As for the Reefcentral decision, whatever it is, must be respected. This is not a anarchy, it have rules, but, this is not a democracy either, it's not what everyone wants. It has rules, and the decision of the administrators have to be respected, as in a company.
I can have my opinion, I'm entitled to it, but, the board of administrators have the last word; what they say, goes.

One thing is for sure: Few people give this contribution and have catch so much attention at Reefcentral.


ZRK

[Kristinensky]

Machado deSousa I have followed this thread since I came here to R/C. I would not want to see it ruined by an R/C basher. So whats new Machado? How has the winter weather Been?

[fair standards]

My point is that this guy is doing something incredible for the hobby and now some people are trying to say that he is a commercial entity. I think that is wrong because he is obviously doing it for the love of the hobby and I would hate to see the people at RC give him trouble because THEY think he is a commercial venture.

Good luck with your systems. They are beautiful.

[billsreef]

Funny thing, people arguing over something that isn't even a problem. Even if Machado deSousa's set up has him fitting our definition of commercial, he's still quite welcome to be posting here So instead of arguing over something that is completely irrelevant, lets get back to reefing.

[spleify]

Originally posted by billsreef
Funny thing, people arguing over something that isn't even a problem. Even if Machado deSousa's set up has him fitting our definition of commercial, he's still quite welcome to be posting here So instead of arguing over something that is completely irrelevant, lets get back to reefing.

+1 this is a great thread, lets get it back on track

Thanks Machado for you knowledge and dedication in what you are doing. I have followed this thread from the beginning, and learn an immense amount.