Tanks and Corals under LED Lighting

[wesley6610]

I would caution everyone to not jump to conclusions about LEDs, they are still very much in their infancy. I have built my light and realized that it was too powerful, but I won't jump ship just bc it didn't turn out how I hoped. Some people have learned that we may be over-chilling them and some corals don't grow the same under them....but that goes the same for halides and T5s. I would say that time is needed and open discussion to bring some industry standards to LED lighting as a whole, not opinions laced with criticism.

[aoc230]

Originally Posted by dickenscd

72" Solaris I4 on the back
36" epro LumenAQUA on the front left
36" Thorntex on the front right

Pictures are very deceiving, and you can compare them side by side personally in the next LIRA meeting on Friday, Nov.6 in my office.



James

alot of shadowing with this unit you really wouldnt get from MH t5 combo!!!!! i understand the concept they state about more usuable light but when the day comes when my tank is compltely dark and is getting the most lumins, ill stick with MH's lol.

but i'd really like the LED's to outperform MH.

[aoc230]

Originally Posted by dickenscd

No, it varies tremendously.


The following picture is under 24" Giesemann (one 14,000K Pheonix 250W MH + 2 Giesemann actic T5)




The following picture for the same tank is under 36" epro lumenAQUA, many people told me that the color is much better, however, the picture is very deceiving, basing on our measured PAR and personal experience, I doubt if it can even grow LPS.




James

Hey James,
it looks like the colors pop alot more with the LED's, how much lower was the par value?

[wesley6610]

I think that they both look good actually, but the top picture has a deeper blue to it and the LEDs just more vibrant "bright" look, what are the actual PAR values for both and how many LEDs, what current and etc.? Or is this a professional fixture?

[dickenscd]

Originally Posted by aoc230

i was wondering the same, what about that stupid patebt thing that was going around, it now seems as though every one and their mother are producing these things again?

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/orbi...ven-an-option/

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/pate...-diy-infringe/


http://glassbox-design.com/2009/pate...ensing-claims/

[dickenscd]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

I think that they both look good actually, but the top picture has a deeper blue to it and the LEDs just more vibrant "bright" look, what are the actual PAR values for both and how many LEDs, what current and etc.? Or is this a professional fixture?

I bought epro AquaLUMEN from Dr. Foster and Smith couple months ago, but they have discontinued the item. The 36" I bought has 24 RGB in it.

PAR value tested by Apogee Quantum Meter, 30" under the light without water.

epro 19
Solaris I4 113
Giesemann 250WMH 80
Other LED 1 44
Other LED 2 201


James

[wesley6610]

Those numbers seem really low for some reason all the way around...

[dickenscd]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

Those numbers seem really low for some reason all the way around...

Solaris I4 is almost 2 years old.

New Phoenix 14K MH was used for Giesemann fixture.

[tkeracer619]

Personally I know leds will get there and already are viable but IMO will still be too costly for initial purchase. I believe Plasma will swoop in and take the thunder that leds have started to ramp up for so many years.

It is already cheaper to light a tank with a plasma bulb then an led and they aren't even on the shelves yet for this purpose. Maybe price gouging galore will happen but maybe not.

[aoc230]

Originally Posted by dickenscd

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/orbi...ven-an-option/

http://glassbox-design.com/2009/pate...-diy-infringe/


http://glassbox-design.com/2009/pate...ensing-claims/

thanks interesting read

[Walking_Target]

Nano Reefs has one of the guys who does LED builds... Evil66

Quite frankly, it might not replace MH on large tanks for a long time, but on smaller kit tanks and in smaller fixtures, I wouldn't hesitate to say that these things will replace PC lightinging for 'cubes' in the next 5-10 years

[emmanuel]

heres some pics of my 125 on diy leds 54 creexre4 white and 54 royal blue the whites are at 75%power the blues at 100% I had these for 8 months so far my sps never grew or colored so well I used to have a catalina aquarium double ended 3x 150mh and 4 x 96watt pc fixture with a par meter the light outputi got 1 inch bellow the water with the mh I got on the sand bed with leds . The only draw back was I started bleaching some coral from light shock in the begining so i dimmed the lights also the heater comes on more now . My fixture cost me close to $1800 for parts but between electic use and not having to buy $400 in bulbs every 10 months and chiller running in the summer I'm sure the money will be saved shortly (if they dont fail in 2 years)only time will tell but I'm glad I did it


heres a pic from March when I first did leds

[wesley6610]

emmanuel, you are saying that your sps didn't grow well under the MH or the LEDs?

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

emmanuel, you are saying that your sps didn't grow well under the MH or the LEDs?

Ahhh...see I read it to mean his SPS never grew so well under the LED ... as in - they are doing better than when they were under the MH.

But fair question --- a little broken English I suspect.

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally Posted by wesley6610

Those numbers seem really low for some reason all the way around...

I don't know ... 30" is a reasonably deep measurement. I'm thinking the SOLARIS number looks pretty good. The MH is about what I would expect at 30" ...

The Epro LumenAqua we've had on the market here for a lot longer than you guys have. Based on PAR we've seen here, they do lack 'ooomph' - probably due to the very low number of LEDs. I'm quite certain the KR91 is more powerful than the LumenAqua with the SMD leds.

Whatever the 'other LED 2' is with 201 PAR --- liking that one.

I think what this kind of comparison can outline is that even the LED fixtures will vary a lot. 201 compared to 19 ... massive difference. Unfortunately many folks will rate LED performance based on the fixture they use / try. They range so much ... the mix of blue / whites ... the number of LEDs ... the type of LEDs - and then there's the control. Will be interesting to see which units have nailed the 'right mix' ----

[Purelife]

There are some great looking tanks lit up with LED, as the technology progresses things should get interesting

[emmanuel]

i meant my sps is growing much faster and coloring up better with the led's but keep in mind my ballasts were magnetic 150watt with not so great reflectors

[aoc230]

Originally Posted by emmanuel

i meant my sps is growing much faster and coloring up better with the led's but keep in mind my ballasts were magnetic 150watt with not so great reflectors

Might be growing but looks VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY VERY DARK????

[Andrea_Aust]

I suspect that may be partly due to the trouble camera's have picking up the intensity of the lighting. I have tried so many variables in ISO / f-stop functions etc etc to stop the compensation but never manage to capture the lighting as I see it...certainly the fluoresence is impossible to capture.

Also ... from what I read about emmanuel's set up - his whites are running at 75% and his blues at 100%. This may also factor ... but I think (and this is just my own opinion and very much anecdotal) the corals do very, very well under the intense blue spectrum.

My LED has the blue LEDs run on sunset / sunrise (this is part of the eco-lamps programming). In daylight mode all LEDS run (white + blue). I run my sunset / sunrise for a couple of hours either side of daylight (8 hours). So I run only 8 hours daylight and 4 hours blue only ... 20,000K vitamin pill ... totally awesome results!

[aoc230]

Originally Posted by Andrea_Aust

I suspect that may be partly due to the trouble camera's have picking up the intensity of the lighting. I have tried so many variables in ISO / f-stop functions etc etc to stop the compensation but never manage to capture the lighting as I see it...certainly the fluoresence is impossible to capture.

Also ... from what I read about emmanuel's set up - his whites are running at 75% and his blues at 100%. This may also factor ... but I think (and this is just my own opinion and very much anecdotal) the corals do very, very well under the intense blue spectrum.

My LED has the blue LEDs run on sunset / sunrise (this is part of the eco-lamps programming). In daylight mode all LEDS run (white + blue). I run my sunset / sunrise for a couple of hours either side of daylight (8 hours). So I run only 8 hours daylight and 4 hours blue only ... 20,000K vitamin pill ... totally awesome results!

for real eh!!! so they arent that dark in person? you've obviously have been very happy thus far, anything you'd wish they'd do differently?

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally Posted by aoc230

for real eh!!! so they arent that dark in person? you've obviously have been very happy thus far, anything you'd wish they'd do differently?

Huge fan ... can you tell?

I can't speak for emmanuel - his unit is a DIY and he runs his whites at lower power than his blues ... may create less brightness to the human eye (I think I read somewhere that blue light is the last the human eye sees?). I just don't know whether the corals mind as long as they are getting the PAR and spectrums they need. If there is good growth, healthy polyp extension? ...then I suspect they don't mind at all.

My LED lights are quite intensely bright in daylight mode but there is higher ratio of white:blue in the eco-lamps I think.

In terms of performance, I can't ask for more than what my LEDs are doing now. There is not a single coral in my tank that has not shown substantial growth since I put the lights up in September. Honestly, I never expected that kind of result.

Prior to this under my new ATI T5's it all seemed like a much slower process. I thought that was 'normal' --- there was growth yes, but nothing like this!

If I could change anything ... maybe the slow ramp up to dawn / dusk / daylight (dimming up / down) ... but I believe the new eco-lamps both in KR91 and KR92 will come with this dimming control in the new year.

That's not a deal breaker for me though ... the light as it is still is fully automated - just without the soft changeover to the next mode. I can live with that. Build quality = superb. Easy to clean ... nothing seems to penetrate the thing. I have spilled water on it and its turned into dried, crusted salt ... wiped it clean ... as new again.

Worth every cent I spent and I know by now I would have changed over some T5 globes again so on top of all that I am saving money.

[buller100]

Heres a pic of my 5x2x2.
I have been running Ecolamps Kr92 18'sx3 -70w each for about 7 weeks now and am very happy with them so far.
I used them to replace 3x 150w halides which I had wanted to upgrade to 250w ones for a while, but just couldn't justify the extra running costs involved.
So when these LEDS became available they seemed like a good risk to take to achieve the extra light intensity that I was after.
With the halides I had the majority of my SPS up towards the top and made the mistake of leaving them there when I changed over to the LEDs.This caused quite a bit of bleaching/ browning out But since pulling some rock out and lowering the SPS, most have started to colour back up again
Anyway they say a pics worth a thousand words so:

[dickenscd]

Some of these 1W LED has more intensity (PAR) than 400W MH at 30" depth, just be careful when you change your light from MH to LED or introduce any new LED.

If your LED does not have control for the intensity, make sure that you start no more than 6 hours a day for daylight, gradually increase the time to acclimate the habitats in the tank.

I have been collecting aquarium LED lightings around the world, and love to try new things. I lost quite a few precious SPS during my experimentation, and will try to show some horrible pictures here when I get time.

Actually, it's a good practice to reduce the daylight hours whenever you change your light bulbs, regardless it is LED, MH or even T5.


James

[Andrea_Aust]

Indeed James

I had the same problems as Buller when I hooked up the eco-lamps KR91 (which I thought was supposed to be a fairly docile LED) HUH!?? I went from 12 hours to 6 daylight with 3 either side of sunrise and sunset (blue) ... then after a few weeks I increased daylight to 8 hours with 2 hours either side. I decided to keep it that way in the end because already I am having coral growth encroach on nearby corals causing all kinds of arguments. I don't mind fragging but this is insane!

[Andrea_Aust]

Originally Posted by Jack07013

can you show some pictures of your tank with these LEDs and some coral growth you are talking about? I would love to see it to believe it.

hey Jack sorry for the delay ... thought I would do a bit better than a few pictures ... there'a about 50 here!