Dinoflagellates.

[mfaso24]

Originally Posted by cal_stir

H2O2 did nothing for mine, Ostreopsis Ovata, they don't always have bubbles and I think when there environment is changing they change their behavior to adapt so they may have been responding to the h2o2.

I think the only way to control them is through plankton diversity, that's why I got a dozen different varieties from a half dozen different suppliers.

So the plankton essentially consume them? Where do you go about getting them?

[cal_stir]

Originally Posted by mfaso24

So the plankton essentially consume them? Where do you go about getting them?

I ordered from several places.
The algae barn
Reefs2go
Reef cleaners
Florida aqua farms(phyto cultures)
Get your pods
Indo-pacific sea farms(various worms and live sand activator)

You could also get some live rock from a well established healthy system.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by cal_stir

Update
Tank looks marvelous, I put a sample squeezed out of my sock under the microscope and could not find any dinos, just tons of micro organisms swimming around, many different varieties and microscopic pods. I never saw any of this while I had the dinos.
I am totally back to my regular routine pre dinos, been about 6 weeks now.

Awesome!

Ivy

[DNA]

Originally Posted by cal_stir

You could also get some live rock from a well established healthy system.

I did this last winter with around 5 pound dry rock kept in a healthy system for 2 months. It had no impact on the dinos after it got in my system.
A small army does not seem to be able to do the trick.

That's why I'm adding 80 pounds of live rock to my 400g system soon.

[cal_stir]

Originally Posted by DNA

I did this last winter with around 5 pound dry rock kept in a healthy system for 2 months. It had no impact on the dinos after it got in my system.
A small army does not seem to be able to do the trick.

That's why I'm adding 80 pounds of live rock to my 400g system soon.

Yes, your right, there is nothing like fresh live rock for diversity and the more the better, 5lbs in a 400gal is a pretty small army.
That is why I have been purchasing so many different varieties from many different suppliers for my 90, my next batch is coming from Live Aquaria.

[karimwassef]

I started with artificial rock and then seeded with a few pieces of real live rock. My artificial rock probably leached enough phosphate for me to react with aggressive phosphate mitigation and that's when the dinos took over.

If I were to do it again, I'd let the fake rock cure in a kalkwasser dosed system with no macro life, direct sunlight, Lanthanum and a variety of natural live rock.

After a few months, I think it would be ready to host a reef tank.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Semi update. Feeding (tiny amounts of mysis) to increase nutrients has caused a dino explosion. Going to have to do another blackout to knock them back a bit.

Skimmer's off, no GFO no carbon, nothing.

Tests as usual undetectable nitrate and phosphate. Grrrr.

Really starting to eye dinox, this is getting ridiculous.

ivy

[karimwassef]

Do you have a low flow UV?

[dartier]

Ivy, where are you located in Canada? If you are anywhere near me (GTA), I would be happy to donate some microlife in the form of macro algae or rock. I have a 20 Gallon fuge that is crawling with anything and everything (copepods, isopods, amphipods, various worms, asterinas, etc.) and you are welcome to some if it helps in the dino battle.

I also have dinos in my tank, but I have to use my nanoscope to spot them on the glass. They are held in check and have not posed a problem (so far).

Dennis

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by karimwassef

Do you have a low flow UV?

I don't, no.

ivy

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by dartier

Ivy, where are you located in Canada? If you are anywhere near me (GTA), I would be happy to donate some microlife in the form of macro algae or rock. I have a 20 Gallon fuge that is crawling with anything and everything (copepods, isopods, amphipods, various worms, asterinas, etc.) and you are welcome to some if it helps in the dino battle.

I also have dinos in my tank, but I have to use my nanoscope to spot them on the glass. They are held in check and have not posed a problem (so far).

Dennis

Ah, that's very generous of you. Unfortunately for me I'm in Saskatchewan.
Did you have an outbreak previously?
ivy

[DNA]

The theory is simple enough.
Loss of plankton can leave an open door for dinoflagellates to take over.
Give plankton a helping hand and dinos will fade away.

I think we have a really strong case here so I'm re-posting and asking for discussion on everything about plankton.
How and where to get it as well as maintaining numbers, health, diversity etc...

We need the good results repeated a number of times so spread the word and don't forget to link here so we will get feedback.

[dartier]

Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy

Ah, that's very generous of you. Unfortunately for me I'm in Saskatchewan.
Did you have an outbreak previously?
ivy

Oh, well that will not work then

No, I have never had an outbreak that I was able to trace to dinos. I just focused on having a thriving fuge because I have a Mandarin. Well that and I enjoy the more microscopic aspects of reef tanks.


Dennis

[Dfee]

I'm just not sure when to add plankton and pods. Still signs of Dino. I'm worried nothing will last when I add them with Dino still visible.

Something killed it all in first place, right?

I also remember a thread about someone seeing a copepod eating Dino. ... So I dunno

[Adrnalnrsh]

Originally Posted by Dfee

I'm just not sure when to add plankton and pods. Still signs of Dino. I'm worried nothing will last when I add them with Dino still visible.

Something killed it all in first place, right?

I also remember a thread about someone seeing a copepod eating Dino. ... So I dunno

In theory unless you have a really good refugium, you might need to add them on occasion even if your tank is healthy.

Since our aquariums are a closed system, eventually one form of pods could wipe out another as they are competition.

I have Dinos and I've always had Amphipods.


Montireef is the one who saw the copepod eating dinos (I think)


I am following what cal_stir did.

Getting different pods from different places as well as phyto.


Also keep in mind fish eat them, so Its possible to damage to the total # of pods in a closed system. That's not including killing off the microfauna on accident using things like AlgaeX or Overskimming etc etc.

I blame overskimming and/or Nopox for my issues.

[Dfee]

I see. How does skimming remove pods?

[Adrnalnrsh]

Originally Posted by Dfee

I see. How does skimming remove pods?

Its just a theory. I don't know the mechanics. Perhaps overskimming removes to much food or the microfauna itself.

I have a super sized skimmer on a small tank.

[dartier]

Originally Posted by Dfee

I see. How does skimming remove pods?

The theory goes that they get sucked into the skimmer and exported with a lot of other micro-organisms.

Montireef, was the user who reported a parasitic protozoa, parvilucifera (I believe) attacking a dino. It is earlier in this thread.

One thing that Montireef also pointed out is that if you do not discard your skimmate, but instead collect it and set it aside for a couple of weeks, that it will become clear and under closer inspection the now clear fluid will be teaming with a veritable soup of micro-organisms. I have been dying to try this but don't have a microscope yet (but I will be getting one soon!).

Wouldn't it be neat if instead of draining skimmate, you could collect it, let it age, bloom and then return the zoo-plankton to the tank once the organics are consumed. Perhaps adding some live phyto at the clear stage to assist with nitrate, phosphate reduction before returning the zoo soup to the tank. Compared to the ocean, our little boxes of water are usually sadly lacking in the lower food webs that higher organisms depend on.

Dennis

[DNA]

If you think your skimmer to be too effective I'd think restricting the water-flow to be a good option.
Turning it on and off will cause variable surface tension with flooding and adjustment problems.

What is in the skimmate?
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

[Adrnalnrsh]

Originally Posted by DNA

If you think your skimmer to be too effective I'd think restricting the water-flow to be a good option.
Turning it on and off will cause variable surface tension with flooding and adjustment problems.

What is in the skimmate?
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature

I have a variable speed - Skimz Monzter SM203 and am going to dial it back down to the lowest speed but also increase my bioload once I am out of the dino phase.

It was bought oversized so that it can go on my next tank which will be larger (currently on a 90)

[Adrnalnrsh]

Originally Posted by dartier

The theory goes that they get sucked into the skimmer and exported with a lot of other micro-organisms.

Montireef, was the user who reported a parasitic protozoa, parvilucifera (I believe) attacking a dino. It is earlier in this thread.

One thing that Montireef also pointed out is that if you do not discard your skimmate, but instead collect it and set it aside for a couple of weeks, that it will become clear and under closer inspection the now clear fluid will be teaming with a veritable soup of micro-organisms. I have been dying to try this but don't have a microscope yet (but I will be getting one soon!).

Wouldn't it be neat if instead of draining skimmate, you could collect it, let it age, bloom and then return the zoo-plankton to the tank once the organics are consumed. Perhaps adding some live phyto at the clear stage to assist with nitrate, phosphate reduction before returning the zoo soup to the tank. Compared to the ocean, our little boxes of water are usually sadly lacking in the lower food webs that higher organisms depend on.

Dennis

I set aside sklimmate from about two three months ago and its been sitting in a 2 liter bottle in my laundry room with the cap sealed tight. I see the clear liquid. Perhaps I should check a sample.

[Adrnalnrsh]

Update: since adding the phytoplankton and pods from algaebarn yesterday all the bubbles that were on my dead frags have disappeared. I only see bubbles on the back wall and in upper corners with what looks like brown stringy stuff

All green cyano has turned black after using the chemiclean.

My skimmer is still off and the chemiclean instructions say to run the skimmer and do a water change which I am avoiding.

[Quiet_Ivy]

Originally Posted by Adrnalnrsh

I set aside sklimmate from about two three months ago and its been sitting in a 2 liter bottle in my laundry room with the cap sealed tight. I see the clear liquid. Perhaps I should check a sample.

This is fascinating. Do you think it's bacterial action or microorganisms? I wonder if you've got a mega culture of anaerobic nitrogen reducing bacteria in there.

ivy

[Adrnalnrsh]

Originally Posted by Quiet_Ivy

This is fascinating. Do you think it's bacterial action or microorganisms? I wonder if you've got a mega culture of anaerobic nitrogen reducing bacteria in there.

ivy

It's not a 100% clear and I'm not even sure if there's any life. I am going to put under my microscope.

[Montireef]

Originally Posted by Adrnalnrsh

I set aside sklimmate from about two three months ago and its been sitting in a 2 liter bottle in my laundry room with the cap sealed tight. I see the clear liquid. Perhaps I should check a sample.

I have never done it in that way. I just let the skimmate sit in the skimmer cup for 2/3 weeks and poured it into the tank (a whole gallon of black stinky stuff).
Did a nitrate and phosphate test and it had nothing. On the microscope I could spot three or four kinds of bacteria and many nematodes.

The water got noticeable blackish and dirty for several hours and ALL my corals (more than 800 acros, poccis, seriatoporas...and about 40 LPSs) opened in an amazing way with awesome polyp extension. I did not notice anything weird with my fish and snails went nuts eating sediments.

My theory is that if you let the skimmate sit for some days, there will be a competition and the strongest bacteria and critters will remain after all nutrients are eaten. These surviving bacteria and critters will be an awesome meal for corals and other inverts in the tank. When poured they will keep on competing and eating other critters in the tank, playing havoc amongst dinoflagellate colonies which are on the first trophic stage.