2x EDUCTORS & NO MORE POWERHEADS!! - Page 8

mnash · 06/10/2007, 05:26 PM

What sized pump would be required to run four eductors and get around 1000 gph (pump flow + added eductor flow)? Could you possibly build a low profile plastic mesh/cage around the intake holes to prevent fish from getting killed?

Thanks,
Mike

ivgonmad · 06/11/2007, 01:10 AM

The smallest I would even try is a Mag 9, on two eductors max.

Even if it only doubled your circulation that would be a lot more than 1000 gph.

What size tank do you have?

mnash · 06/11/2007, 12:38 PM

I have an 80 gallon with a 17 gallon sump and a 17 gallon fuge. The pump I have is a quiet one 3000 (780 gph). Would it not be a good idea to have an eductor in each corner? Are they adjustable, can you move them around and aim them at a certain spot? So you can paint them and put them in the tank?

veurli · 06/11/2007, 12:41 PM

I have a 40 breeder with a mag 9.5 (950 ghp) with two eductors and at the end of mine instead of that coupling thingy I just put a 45 degree so I can move it around and direct the flow to the center of the tank. It works WONDERS !!!!!

ivgonmad · 06/11/2007, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mnash
I have an 80 gallon with a 17 gallon sump and a 17 gallon fuge. The pump I have is a quiet one 3000 (780 gph). Would it not be a good idea to have an eductor in each corner? Are they adjustable, can you move them around and aim them at a certain spot? So you can paint them and put them in the tank?

I would definitely try a larger pump if you want very strong flow, the quiet one 3000 is not very powerful but you will definitely see an increase in flow from the eductors.

2 eductors in a 80g good idea, depending on how you install them they can be fully adjustable, and yes they can be painted

mnash · 06/12/2007, 12:59 AM

How exactly do you suggest installing them? Pics?

Thanks,
Mike

mnash · 06/12/2007, 02:15 AM

If I incorporated a larger pump Quiet One 4000 (1000gph) it would give me atleast 28 tank turn overs per hour for my sump. I thought that you do not want very much flow through a sump because it reduces the efficiency of your skimmer.

BigJPDC · 06/12/2007, 06:03 AM

exactly - low flow through the sump, and high flow in the tank using closed loops and eductors.

BigJPDC · 06/12/2007, 06:13 AM

Here's what it's done to the corner nearest the eductor. I may try stacking up some LR rubble or soemthing. Also, my frogspawn hasn't opened fully since it's now in the blast zone, so I may need to rearrange my corals as well.

This is an Eheim 1260, plumbed to 1" pipe to a 3/4" SeaSwirl, with the pump dialed back using a gate valve about 1/2 way. I would guess about 300gph by the time it hits the water, which never dug up my sand before.

jp

johno4 · 06/12/2007, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by mnash
If I incorporated a larger pump Quiet One 4000 (1000gph) it would give me atleast 28 tank turn overs per hour for my sump. I thought that you do not want very much flow through a sump because it reduces the efficiency of your skimmer.

Adding an educator to add flow will not increase the flow going through your sump.

mnash · 06/12/2007, 10:49 AM

Exactly how much flow can you expect to gain from the use of eductors? Does their efficiency decline more if there are multiple eductors?

Thanks,
Mike

ivgonmad · 06/12/2007, 01:05 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mnash
How exactly do you suggest installing them? Pics?

Thanks,
Mike

Put them on Lockline on your return outlets.

ivgonmad · 06/12/2007, 01:10 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mnash
Exactly how much flow can you expect to gain from the use of eductors? Does their efficiency decline more if there are multiple eductors?

Thanks,
Mike

Number of eductors is determined by the pump you are using and the size of your tank.

BigJPDC · 06/12/2007, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by mnash
How exactly do you suggest installing them? Pics?

Thanks,
Mike

mine is on the previous page - screwed into the SeaSwirl outlet.

jp

conefree · 06/12/2007, 03:24 PM

ivgonmad,

I am curious about this part:

1x 1/2" BARB X 3/4" MALE THREAD NPT RISER FLEX ADAPTER
- MANUFACTURER: ORBIT Water Master
- MODEL: 37161
- ITEM*: 194541

I have made 3 trips to Lowe's, and walked pretty much every aisle and cannot find this part. I even had an employee look up their item number 194541, and it isn't in their system. Are the model and item numbers swapped perhaps? Either way, I cannot locate the part. I have found several things like it, but the hex portion is larger than the threads. Where in Lowe's did you find it? Thanks for the great design and helping me get rid of my powerheads

johno4 · 06/12/2007, 06:16 PM

ivgonmad, I dont mean any disrespect and I dont mean to steal your thead this is a great diy find. I just dont get why, with the problems finding parts (I had a hard time also) why more people dont try the other diy educator that I posted a link for on page 7. I made both and the other is much easier.

Fishboy93 · 06/12/2007, 07:14 PM

hello i'm fairly new to reef central and have been following this thread, i built two eductors for my 50G reef using a quiet one 4000 return pump and i didnt seem to get the results everyone else has had. i think the 1/4" nozzles i used may be too small and i think i am losing pressure through the syphon break hole in the pipe, i'm going to go to ace hardware and pick up some new 1/2" nozzles, but i was mainly wondering what to do about the siphon break hole, does everyone just put the eductors close enough to the water's edge to stop the siphon? any help would be greatly appreciated.

ivgonmad · 06/12/2007, 07:40 PM

is way too small, you need to make it 7/16"

I have them below the surface just enough so it doesn't take air in from the surface. You are definitely losing some pressure from the siphon break holes but once you do it how it says in the instructions and use the right parts you might have good enough results that you might not have to worry about the pressure loss from the siphon break holes.

You could also use a small check valve on the S.B. holes but test it many, many, many times to make sure it works!

Fishboy93 · 06/12/2007, 07:48 PM

thank you for the help, i think i will plug up the siphon break and raise the eductors higher, also i've never seen 7/16" is 1/2" ok since its only 1/16 difference, also i agree 1/4" was wasy too small but i was following instrusctions on themantledmonster.

ivgonmad · 06/12/2007, 10:45 PM

use a 1/2 barb adpter and make sure you enlarge the inner diameter of the barb adapter to 1/2"

BigJPDC · 06/13/2007, 06:49 AM

conefree - they were tricky for me to find as well. All the Orbit Master stuff is in the irrigation section - bins full of parts to DIY pop up sprinklers, by the huge black pipes. I would try another Lowes, and they had almost none of this stuff at HD by me.

Fishboy - 1/4" sounds like your problem - isn't that what RO\DI tubing is? Sounds like you built a water jet. You could post pics of what you have, but I would go with at least 1/2".

Any design which shoots water past a bunch of holes and into a coned outlet will work - the parts that ivan listed are of the corret shape and size to just bolt together, and I modded mine to work with my SeaSwirls - whatever works for you is great.

jp

ivgonmad · 06/13/2007, 09:11 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by johno4
ivgonmad, I dont mean any disrespect and I dont mean to steal your thead this is a great diy find. I just dont get why, with the problems finding parts (I had a hard time also) why more people dont try the other diy educator that I posted a link for on page 7. I made both and the other is much easier.

Yes its smaller and easier to make but requires much more water pressure to work.

I have used them in the past and took what was good from that design and others I have seen and decided to put all that together in an easy to build eductor that performs better with the types of pumps we use in the hobby.

Sorry to hear you are having trouble but any plumbing supply house will have all these parts as they are commonly used in the plumbing trade.

johno4 · 06/13/2007, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ivgonmad
Yes its smaller and easier to make but requires much more water pressure to work.

I have used them in the past and took what was good from that design and others I have seen and decided to put all that together in an easy to build eductor that performs better with the types of pumps we use in the hobby.

can you explain this to me, I dont understand why the other method would need more water pressure. would drillind holes around the outsides like in your design help?

BigJPDC · 06/13/2007, 01:04 PM

johno - I saw your post in the other eductor thread. Doesn't the jet have to terminate before the inlets? Check out that link I posted - maybe that's why we're seeing better performance from this design. You're basically just putting a shroud around a water jet, but without a propeller like the maxijet mods, I don't see how you can pull as much or any water volume. You are just shooting water through a can.

If you look at our pics, you can see clear through the flow holes in the eductor and that's where the water is pulled into the stream.

Somebody more versed in fluid dynamics could chime in for us to be sure, but that's how I see it from researching commercial eductors.

jp

ivgonmad · 06/13/2007, 02:48 PM

Nicely said BigJPDC, but the reason his design is not working quite the same is because he is missing one of the most important part which is the reducing coupler.

06/11/2007, 01:10 AM	#177
ivgonmad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 468	The smallest I would even try is a Mag 9, on two eductors max. Even if it only doubled your circulation that would be a lot more than 1000 gph. What size tank do you have? __________________ 60g Frag Tank 60g Q.T. 240g Reef - 2x Dual 250w Coralvue MH Ballasts, 2x Custom Dual 250w Pendants, DAS EX-3 Protein Skimmer, GEN-X PCX-40 Return Pump, Iwaki 70 Closed Loop, Wave I Closed Loop, 4x Pacific Coast Flow Accelerators, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor w/Panworld Pump, 75g SDA Sump/Refugium, Fluorex 65w Floodlight Refugium Light Current Tank Info: 240g in the works B)

06/12/2007, 06:03 AM	#183
BigJPDC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 959	exactly - low flow through the sump, and high flow in the tank using closed loops and eductors. __________________ Rock in the tank is money not in my bank. Current Tank Info: 65 RR AGA

06/12/2007, 06:13 AM	#184
BigJPDC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 959	Here's what it's done to the corner nearest the eductor. I may try stacking up some LR rubble or soemthing. Also, my frogspawn hasn't opened fully since it's now in the blast zone, so I may need to rearrange my corals as well. This is an Eheim 1260, plumbed to 1" pipe to a 3/4" SeaSwirl, with the pump dialed back using a gate valve about 1/2 way. I would guess about 300gph by the time it hits the water, which never dug up my sand before. jp __________________ Rock in the tank is money not in my bank. Current Tank Info: 65 RR AGA

06/12/2007, 03:24 PM	#190
conefree Gene Pool Lifeguard Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Downingtown, PA Posts: 758	ivgonmad, I am curious about this part: 1x 1/2" BARB X 3/4" MALE THREAD NPT RISER FLEX ADAPTER - MANUFACTURER: ORBIT Water Master - MODEL: 37161 - ITEM*: 194541 I have made 3 trips to Lowe's, and walked pretty much every aisle and cannot find this part. I even had an employee look up their item number 194541, and it isn't in their system. Are the model and item numbers swapped perhaps? Either way, I cannot locate the part. I have found several things like it, but the hex portion is larger than the threads. Where in Lowe's did you find it? Thanks for the great design and helping me get rid of my powerheads __________________ Chris "A Closed Mouth Gathers No Foot" - Unknown Some people are like Slinkies . . . not really good for anything, but you still can't help but smile when you see one tumble down the stairs. Current Tank Info: 120 gallon, Ecosystem 3612, 6X54 TEK light, Tunze Osmolator, Lifereef dual overflow all down

06/12/2007, 07:40 PM	#193
ivgonmad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 468	is way too small, you need to make it 7/16" I have them below the surface just enough so it doesn't take air in from the surface. You are definitely losing some pressure from the siphon break holes but once you do it how it says in the instructions and use the right parts you might have good enough results that you might not have to worry about the pressure loss from the siphon break holes. You could also use a small check valve on the S.B. holes but test it many, many, many times to make sure it works! __________________ 60g Frag Tank 60g Q.T. 240g Reef - 2x Dual 250w Coralvue MH Ballasts, 2x Custom Dual 250w Pendants, DAS EX-3 Protein Skimmer, GEN-X PCX-40 Return Pump, Iwaki 70 Closed Loop, Wave I Closed Loop, 4x Pacific Coast Flow Accelerators, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor w/Panworld Pump, 75g SDA Sump/Refugium, Fluorex 65w Floodlight Refugium Light Current Tank Info: 240g in the works B)

06/10/2007, 05:26 PM	#176
mnash Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 280	What sized pump would be required to run four eductors and get around 1000 gph (pump flow + added eductor flow)? Could you possibly build a low profile plastic mesh/cage around the intake holes to prevent fish from getting killed? Thanks, Mike

06/11/2007, 12:38 PM	#178
mnash Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 280	I have an 80 gallon with a 17 gallon sump and a 17 gallon fuge. The pump I have is a quiet one 3000 (780 gph). Would it not be a good idea to have an eductor in each corner? Are they adjustable, can you move them around and aim them at a certain spot? So you can paint them and put them in the tank?

06/11/2007, 12:41 PM	#179
veurli Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Posts: 103	I have a 40 breeder with a mag 9.5 (950 ghp) with two eductors and at the end of mine instead of that coupling thingy I just put a 45 degree so I can move it around and direct the flow to the center of the tank. It works WONDERS !!!!!

06/12/2007, 12:59 AM	#181
mnash Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 280	How exactly do you suggest installing them? Pics? Thanks, Mike

06/12/2007, 02:15 AM	#182
mnash Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 280	If I incorporated a larger pump Quiet One 4000 (1000gph) it would give me atleast 28 tank turn overs per hour for my sump. I thought that you do not want very much flow through a sump because it reduces the efficiency of your skimmer.

06/12/2007, 10:49 AM	#186
mnash Registered Member Join Date: May 2007 Location: Montana Posts: 280	Exactly how much flow can you expect to gain from the use of eductors? Does their efficiency decline more if there are multiple eductors? Thanks, Mike

06/12/2007, 06:16 PM	#191
johno4 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Rochester, NY Posts: 2,526	ivgonmad, I dont mean any disrespect and I dont mean to steal your thead this is a great diy find. I just dont get why, with the problems finding parts (I had a hard time also) why more people dont try the other diy educator that I posted a link for on page 7. I made both and the other is much easier.

06/12/2007, 07:14 PM	#192
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	hello i'm fairly new to reef central and have been following this thread, i built two eductors for my 50G reef using a quiet one 4000 return pump and i didnt seem to get the results everyone else has had. i think the 1/4" nozzles i used may be too small and i think i am losing pressure through the syphon break hole in the pipe, i'm going to go to ace hardware and pick up some new 1/2" nozzles, but i was mainly wondering what to do about the siphon break hole, does everyone just put the eductors close enough to the water's edge to stop the siphon? any help would be greatly appreciated.

06/12/2007, 07:48 PM	#194
Fishboy93 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2006 Location: Ft. Myers, Fl Posts: 197	thank you for the help, i think i will plug up the siphon break and raise the eductors higher, also i've never seen 7/16" is 1/2" ok since its only 1/16 difference, also i agree 1/4" was wasy too small but i was following instrusctions on themantledmonster.

06/12/2007, 10:45 PM	#195
ivgonmad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 468	use a 1/2 barb adpter and make sure you enlarge the inner diameter of the barb adapter to 1/2" __________________ 60g Frag Tank 60g Q.T. 240g Reef - 2x Dual 250w Coralvue MH Ballasts, 2x Custom Dual 250w Pendants, DAS EX-3 Protein Skimmer, GEN-X PCX-40 Return Pump, Iwaki 70 Closed Loop, Wave I Closed Loop, 4x Pacific Coast Flow Accelerators, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor w/Panworld Pump, 75g SDA Sump/Refugium, Fluorex 65w Floodlight Refugium Light Current Tank Info: 240g in the works B)

06/13/2007, 06:49 AM	#196
BigJPDC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 959	conefree - they were tricky for me to find as well. All the Orbit Master stuff is in the irrigation section - bins full of parts to DIY pop up sprinklers, by the huge black pipes. I would try another Lowes, and they had almost none of this stuff at HD by me. Fishboy - 1/4" sounds like your problem - isn't that what RO\DI tubing is? Sounds like you built a water jet. You could post pics of what you have, but I would go with at least 1/2". Any design which shoots water past a bunch of holes and into a coned outlet will work - the parts that ivan listed are of the corret shape and size to just bolt together, and I modded mine to work with my SeaSwirls - whatever works for you is great. jp __________________ Rock in the tank is money not in my bank. Current Tank Info: 65 RR AGA

06/13/2007, 01:04 PM	#199
BigJPDC Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Northern Virginia Posts: 959	johno - I saw your post in the other eductor thread. Doesn't the jet have to terminate before the inlets? Check out that link I posted - maybe that's why we're seeing better performance from this design. You're basically just putting a shroud around a water jet, but without a propeller like the maxijet mods, I don't see how you can pull as much or any water volume. You are just shooting water through a can. If you look at our pics, you can see clear through the flow holes in the eductor and that's where the water is pulled into the stream. Somebody more versed in fluid dynamics could chime in for us to be sure, but that's how I see it from researching commercial eductors. jp __________________ Rock in the tank is money not in my bank. Current Tank Info: 65 RR AGA

06/13/2007, 02:48 PM	#200
ivgonmad Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: San Diego Posts: 468	Nicely said BigJPDC, but the reason his design is not working quite the same is because he is missing one of the most important part which is the reducing coupler. __________________ 60g Frag Tank 60g Q.T. 240g Reef - 2x Dual 250w Coralvue MH Ballasts, 2x Custom Dual 250w Pendants, DAS EX-3 Protein Skimmer, GEN-X PCX-40 Return Pump, Iwaki 70 Closed Loop, Wave I Closed Loop, 4x Pacific Coast Flow Accelerators, GEO 612 Calcium Reactor w/Panworld Pump, 75g SDA Sump/Refugium, Fluorex 65w Floodlight Refugium Light Current Tank Info: 240g in the works B)