Reef Central Online Community
Tunze USA

Home Forum Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences View New Posts View Today's Posts

Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Reefkeeping ...an online magazine for marine aquarists Support our sponsors and mention Reef Central

Go Back   Reef Central Online Community > General Interest Forums > Advanced Topics
Register Blogs FAQ Calendar Mark Forums Read

Notices

User Tag List

Reply
Thread Tools
Old 10/25/2005, 10:06 AM   #1
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
lfs filteration caculations??

hey i want to start a online store probably not open to the public unless i do like premium and only open on day for a few hours. well in the next 5 yrs or so i would like to be up and operating. the biggest issue for me is bioload and how i could figure out how much and what is the best filter to use.

lets just say i will four 2000 gallon systems, lps, sps, clams, and sofites to start off with. all the tanks will be stocked to max not to wast any space. so would the best route be masssive amounts of live rock, wet/dry, ozone, or a combination of these and obvisly huge skimmers are a must. thanks for any help after reading through several books i still dont see a clear exact way to jugde a large system like this. and just in case if you wonder i will start off with a much smaller system than these and over a few years work up to larger system.
thanks for any help


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 11:45 AM   #2
captbunzo
Premium Member
 
captbunzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Posts: 3,950
You might try discussing this in the large tanks forum. I would think there might be some similarities.


__________________
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England

RK: Where only bad things happen fast...

CRAZY 4 the CRASE - Sometime 2008

Current Tank Info: 180 litre UK Reef
captbunzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 12:11 PM   #3
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
my best advice is not to be a common reseller of imported livestock my friend. You are likely the least (work/age) experienced to handle this most risky and volatile (profit) competitive (!) niche in the market. To succeed... you will need a remarkable amount of capital to work with.

Farm corals instead for your highest profit, lowest risk. Then you will not be at the mercy of CITES, airline delays, weather, etc for the the things that make your livelihood!

Above all... start with writing a business plan. There is software out there to help with this such as Business Plan Pro

This will reveal the world to you my friend: how much moey you need to start up, how much profit you can make... when/can you afford to startup, etc.

Some of the info you will need to finish a business plan can be found in the industry trade journals such as Pet Business, Pet Age and Pet Supplies marketing. Also form the industry lobbyist group PIJAC. Subscribe to these orgs for the info that will make the difference between you succeeding or just becoming a statistic.

If you do not make a good and thorough businessplan... you are almost certain to fail

Please do not underestimate this!

If/when you do write this plan... you will see exactly what I mean about avoiding resale in an online market. And you will learn which questions really need to be asked first

Also... check with your local universities that have business schools. They often have free or cheap counseling for small business entrepeneurs like you. They can give advice on writing plans, seeking loans, grants, etc.

Work hard at this and you will be rewarded!


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 01:38 PM   #4
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
yup i didnt add that but it will be a farm and i'm a business major and already know about the business plan and the business incubator that we have with very low intrest so i have all the finacial and cost worked out i feel thats the easiest part at least for me and i have also been watching a couple of members on this site have the greenhouse where they are trying their luck at farming corals. the two i know of are one in florida and one in central il. the hardest part is i get different opions and different stores use different fliteration and i was just curious what is the most efficent and will work for years and not cause problems down the road. i guess when people talk about bio wheels vs lr over a time period the biowheel have the greats potential to cause problems however their are underliying issue to both of these. so i dont plan to just dive in any business of that sort with out years of expericence and and at least 2 research market share cost and all the numreous issue that concern businesses of any sort.
so if anyone has a recommendation for flitration part let me know and i will also post in the other area as suggested.
thanks


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 01:39 PM   #5
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
ohh forget to thank ya for the ogranzatiosn i havent found them yet in the search but i will be sure to look into asap
thanks again


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 03:19 PM   #6
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
flame83,

It's very reassuring to hear that you are aware of the need for a good business plan and seem to have avenues/resources to your advantage that most folks do not.

As for filtration issues, you will learn soon that farming has little to do with aquarium keeping - namely, the use of live rock is a huge liability for prop systems (countless nuisance, pest or competitive organisms to targeted farm species). You will want to utilize controlled media such as seeded sand filters or mechanical filters and ... above all... plan for such high turnover of inventory by strategic selection of the most salable species that your water loss to sales each week will be enormous (and a principal support of water quality).

You'd also do well to invest the time and money to visit profitable coral farms in the North and Midwest too; see some successful models in action.

Lastly... and please understand that this is profferred with the best intentions (no slight intended), but if you want to be taken seriously and given due respect by other professionals and industry folks, then you need to make a strict rule to write and speak like you are well informed and literate.

Your lack of punctuation, capitalization or even complete sentences is not only difficult to read, but makes you look unpolished if not amateur. I do hope they teach that in business school

I realize it has little meaning online here beyond being courteous to those of us that will read (easier) your messages and be able to help you (better). But, I'm strongly advising you to make it a habit to always and only speak concisely and properly in life as a matter of putting your best foot forward. This is especially necessary when seeking advice, giving advice, and dealing with customers or suppliers. Your business will benefit from it immensely.

Best of luck and life,

Anthony


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 06:54 PM   #7
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
ohhh yess all my english teachers i so drove each and everyone of them nuts. well yes i do tend to be sloppy on the net and should just get use to typing if i were turning in my memos and such in class. but once again good old college has sent me through all kinds of that good stuff. ahh to many camp fires with the locals, and their deer stories will give you the worst slang terms in the world, humm wouldnt it be cool if the Blue collar comedy tour could be my daily job
well anyways i know where your coming from and spell check is one of the greatest inventions.
again thanks for the help


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/25/2005, 07:17 PM   #8
captbunzo
Premium Member
 
captbunzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Posts: 3,950
Good call on the punctuation. Try adding capitalization next time!


__________________
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England

RK: Where only bad things happen fast...

CRAZY 4 the CRASE - Sometime 2008

Current Tank Info: 180 litre UK Reef
captbunzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 11:25 AM   #9
Randall_James
Premium Member
 
Randall_James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,727
And no one mentioned the "Book"?

This should be required reading to anyone considering even having a reef tank.

I also think that the name is a bit misleading.

"Book of Coral Propagation" This book talks about much more.

Before you spend a dime on anything else, Anthony's book is a gold mine of information. Learning from someone else's mistakes is certainly faster, cheaper and much easier. (Well assuming what he is sharing came from a few mistakes here and there)

http://readingtrees.com/


__________________
"It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"
Randall_James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 11:28 AM   #10
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
heehee... thanks for the plug, my friend


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 12:11 PM   #11
Randall_James
Premium Member
 
Randall_James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,727
You are too modest.. That book has saved countless hours and dollars.

Oh did I mention I own the posters?? Hey I hung them all in my fish room and they get as much attention as my main tank. Go figure....


__________________
"It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"
Randall_James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 12:22 PM   #12
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
heehee... sorry about the posters

I'll try to make them less attractive next time


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 04:53 PM   #13
Randall_James
Premium Member
 
Randall_James's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Posts: 6,727
Hmmm everyone hear that? there is a sequel coming, Now we can start asking when are the new posters coming out?? Oh and about the follow up book too?


__________________
"It's a dog eat dog world and I feel like I am wearing milkbone underwear"
Randall_James is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 05:00 PM   #14
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
heehee...yes, if the posters sell well enough to break even on the print costs, I'll redo them annually

I'm very eager to finish the second volumes of the books too... am working to gather the capital to print them.

Anth-


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 06:09 PM   #15
BlacktipShark
Registered Member
 
BlacktipShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 19
I admire your entreprenurial spirit! I have owned and operated over 5 Aquarium businesses: Wholesale, Tranship, Maintenance, E-commerce and Consulting. Anthony Calfo is telling you "like it is." This Industy is very competitive and many people fail to realize the competition but more importantly the capital of both time & money. Many LFS run in the red or very close to it; usually the stores with plenty of capital have enough long money to make it work (building a reputation takes years). I understand in most aquarium-business related threads, there are very discouraging remarks from those who come or have come from the business Industry. I agree with Anthony Calfo, in that it is best to start a mini-coral farm (growout) from your own basement as this will yield the least expenses with a higher margin of profit.


BlacktipShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 06:13 PM   #16
BlacktipShark
Registered Member
 
BlacktipShark's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 19
Also, I concur with Randall James. Anthony's book of Coral Propagation is a very interesting book with unique content (many people would not readily give out pointers on how to start your own coral farm or any aquarium-related business for that matter). I found his book refreshing with creative ideas and methods that make for useful & entertaining knowledge.


BlacktipShark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/26/2005, 10:09 PM   #17
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
Right on, this will be a smaill basment project and we'll see where i end up with it. Small steady increase no leaps here!


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/29/2005, 01:14 AM   #18
dz6t
Registered Member
 
dz6t's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: Boston MA
Posts: 414
IMHO, in order to start a coral farm, you need to understand the basic science behind it. Basic freshman chemistry and some marine biology knowledge will greatly benefit your future business. One of the successful person operating a LFS has a BS in Chemistry and MS in Marine biology. If you are not the science type, get some help. Good luck.


dz6t is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/29/2005, 11:32 AM   #19
captbunzo
Premium Member
 
captbunzo's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2005
Location: South Ascot, Berkshire, England
Posts: 3,950
I recently recieved Anthony's BOCP1 in the mail, as I am going to start propogating some mushrooms & soft corals. It is an AMAZING resource & amusing to read. My wife was reading it and getting a kick after Anthony's peculiar humor.

I have to ask. Is it just me, or does anyone else's book smell like mushroom corals?


__________________
Paul Thompson
South Ascot, Berkshire, England

RK: Where only bad things happen fast...

CRAZY 4 the CRASE - Sometime 2008

Current Tank Info: 180 litre UK Reef
captbunzo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/29/2005, 12:18 PM   #20
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
The business degree will take you farther... even here

It will teach you how to find the right personnel/information while still being productive/profitable The latter being a big downfall/weakness of too many know-it-all hard science types that want to be businessmen


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/29/2005, 01:06 PM   #21
spawner
Reefer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: FL EAST COAST
Posts: 517
Quote:
too many know-it-all hard science types that want to be businessmen
well spoken, most aquaculture projects are doomed because of the business model not the science behind the project.


__________________
Andy


"If we knew what it was we were doing, it would not be called research, would it?" Albert Einstein
spawner is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 10/31/2005, 10:43 PM   #22
zulu_principle
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: Vancouver, British Columbia
Posts: 180
Some great words Anthony.

All the best in your endeavor Flame83.



Wendell


zulu_principle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/08/2005, 01:18 PM   #23
DitchPlains2
Moved On
 
DitchPlains2's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: DIRTY JERZ
Posts: 586
Talking Friends?

I have a friend, albeit a better friend if he gave me more info, who is a regular this site, and happens to resell corals from his/her basement, and seems to make some extra cash this way. My question has always been how do you form contacts to wholesalers to get good stock before starting a propagating program?

Mind you I am a very long way away from this stage of my life, if I ever get there, I have trouble with my own 55g, but if you don't aim for the stars you wont make it to the moon.

Seems like there is a bigger conspiracy for coral wholesalers contact info, then there is over alien spacecraft over at Rosewill or Area 51.

Any reason? I think I could score a garbage bag full of coke before getting Pablo Escobar to give me his wholesale coral distrubuter's phone #. lol

Just a slight observation.

thanks
Dave


DitchPlains2 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/08/2005, 01:29 PM   #24
Anthony Calfo
Registered Member
 
Anthony Calfo's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 5,436
good/fair question Dave... but you are mistaken about the wholesaler conspiracy. Really... its just a perfect/innocent example of how a lack of business education handicaps start-ups. Mind you... you don't need a collegiate degree in business to get onto a good path... just some books, free weeknight/weekend seminars at the local university business schools... various community small business outreach programs, etc.

But to answer your question specifically... "how to find wholesalers" - it is as stated above: subscribe to the industry trade journals. Its that simple. You pay for a magazine subscription, and you get monthly mags with articles and advertising about aquarium industry business. They also have annual indices of manufacturers, wholesalers, retailers, suppliers, etc.

And if/when you get just a little bit of business education... you will learn fab tips like just looking merchants in various/specific fields of commerce simply by petitioning Chambers of Commerce for public information.

Then there is attending the industry trade shows and conferences (whos dates and venues are listed in the trade mags and journals... ahem . At such shows you will meet the wholesalers/suppliers face to face... as well as other retailers like you who are usually happy to swap info since y'all are usually from different states/local markets).

Networking.

It's simple and cheap beyond the investment of your time. Just like any other trade or industry Well worth it.


__________________
"If you give a man a fish, he eats for a day... but if you teach a man to fish, he eats for a lifetime."

Current Tank Info: 2K gallon fishroom, garden ponds
Anthony Calfo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11/08/2005, 07:59 PM   #25
flame83
Registered Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: champaign, IL
Posts: 81
A simple Google search will give you significant amount of the information. You would be surprised at the amount of research paid by the government for reef research. There are several "dot org" web pages that receive grants, and post all their research findings for the individual or wholesaler to further educate the industry. Also, they have free management software, small clam business plan, extremely specific detailed studies, shipping techniques, and how to contact over sea clam wholesalers. Now given that some of their posting are dated they still serve an excellent database worth reading.

I'm not on my computer right now or i would try and remember all the links to this information.

Good luck with your venture. Just remember if you are the middle man between the consumer and wholesaler when the coral dies or carries a disease to the consumer's tank they will blame you and your business with them might be gone forever, depending on how you handle the issue. You might want to keep the coral for a quarantine time period to keep you name identified with the excellent coral dealer.


flame83 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -6. The time now is 03:02 PM.


TapaTalk Enabled

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.4
Copyright ©2000 - 2021, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Powered by Searchlight © 2021 Axivo Inc.
Use of this web site is subject to the terms and conditions described in the user agreement.
Reef CentralTM Reef Central, LLC. Copyright 1999-2014
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging v3.3.0 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.