Protein Skimmer Production/Improvements

[Bill Shultz]

Looks like your persistence is paying off

[unkleJ]

Heres a bump for a good thread....and a little bit of an update.

I run a turboflotor multi on my sump, and was having trouble getting good skimmate consistently.

I added a needle valve to the air intake to the needle wheel, and I also tried plumbing my overflow directly to the inlet for the skimmer pump. I had some plumbing issues with this setup, and since I wasn't able to get good, consistent water feed to the pump, I had to go back to just pulling water out of the sump to skim.

However, the needle valve has been a big help, and now I do get quite consistent skimmate, good quanitity and concentration, as well.

I actually very rarely make any adjustments to the water flow valves (for adjusting the water outlet flow), I do almost all of my adjustments with the needle valve.

Just thought I'd share, it's sortof a success story, thanks to AC and everyone else on here who contributed to the 40 pages or whatever this thread is now...Thanks all.

[unkleJ]

Heres a bump for a good thread....and a little bit of an update.

I run a turboflotor multi on my sump, and was having trouble getting good skimmate consistently.

I added a needle valve to the air intake to the needle wheel, and I also tried plumbing my overflow directly to the inlet for the skimmer pump. I had some plumbing issues with this setup, and since I wasn't able to get good, consistent water feed to the pump, I had to go back to just pulling water out of the sump to skim.

However, the needle valve has been a big help, and now I do get quite consistent skimmate, good quanitity and concentration, as well.

I actually very rarely make any adjustments to the water flow valves (for adjusting the water outlet flow), I do almost all of my adjustments with the needle valve.

Just thought I'd share, it's sortof a success story, thanks to AC and everyone else on here who contributed to the 40 pages or whatever this thread is now...Thanks all.

[Dakota_reef]

I'm still confused on how a needle valve helps a venturi skimmer when the neele wheel chops the crap out of them.. won't that make the bubbles smaller anyway?

[unkleJ]

sorry 'bout the double post.

I think the needle valve helps me in that it allows me to really fine tune how much air is going into the needle wheel. This does 2 things - it effects the bubble size, and it effects the height of the liquid inside the skimmer.

Once I set the outflow valves so they were in the ballpark, the needle valve really allows me much finer control over the skimmate than just using those outflow valves alone.

I guess there an optimal amount of air for a needle wheel, more is not necessarily better. It can only handle so much air flow.

[Amphora]

unklej - I am glad that your new setup finally solved your problems. Could you please tell me where you purchased the needle valve and where you installed it? Better still, would you be able to take a photo of this new needle valve installed?

Apart from this, I assume your outflow valves are in the full open position and the restrictor piece in the pump is removed. What about the extender neck?

[unkleJ]

Actually, I still have a restrictor in the pump, one that I made from a Maxi-jet inlet screen, it restricts flow less than the piece that came with the turboflotor, but still provides some reduction in flow. I also run the neck extender. I have one outflow valve out completely - I pulled it right out so the hole where it goes is open. The other outflow valve is still in, but its set full open.

I got the needle valve I used at work, it's similar to the speed control valves on this webpage ( http://www.pisco.com/category.aspx?catid=5 ), its all stainless steel and has push-type tube connections.

[BallaBooyeaH]

WOW what a thread.

Still havent found what I am looking for - can anyone point me in the direction of building a large commercial skimmer?

Big and bold - space is no object. Need iot to cure 1000kg of live rock.

Thanks

[JustOneMoreTank]

BallaBooyeaH... What you really need is something with a strong Pressure Rated pump (think a big Sequence or Iwaki pump) that is pushing multiple Beckett Injectors. Look at this custom made skimmer that was for sale not too long ago here in Atlanta GA
I cannot cut and paste on this computer so you need to do a search here on ReefCentral for:
bfuller123
500 Gallon Tank FS in Atlanta
the date of the thread was 10/21/2006

There is a really good picture of the massive skimmer if you scroll down the page some.

[BallaBooyeaH]

under which topic of threads would this be under?

Thanks for the help.

[BallaBooyeaH]

Found it - but maybe to late.
I would buy it in a flash - looking at a MRC commercial otherwise - unless someone else can recomend another one which is value for money?

Thanks

[melev]

Why don't you try to make one like Spazz has been documenting? It is in the DIY forum, and uses a Sequence Dart with a needle-wheel impellar. This is what we saw at MACNA:

[BallaBooyeaH]

Melev,

Looked everywhere.

Where is the thread for this baby. I have seen that Spazz has made a few versions of skimmers. I need the best one with the least amount of power used. But it also has to perform to cure 1000kg of live rock at 1 time.

Thanks

Andrew

[melev]

This is the first thread about it:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...t=needle+wheel

And here's another:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...t=needle+wheel

Remember the Dart only pulls 160w of power. Even two of them would be a bargain. You could send a PM to spazz, asking him if he could send you some pictures perhaps.

[PSFB]

Is there limit on how high a skimmer body can be? I.E. is there a point where when the bubbles enter near the bottom that they become too large at the top due to the bubbles getting larger as the depth/pressure drops as they rise up the column?

[RichConley]

Originally posted by BallaBooyeaH
Melev,

Looked everywhere.

Where is the thread for this baby. I have seen that Spazz has made a few versions of skimmers. I need the best one with the least amount of power used. But it also has to perform to cure 1000kg of live rock at 1 time.

Thanks

Andrew

fwiw, the small meshwheel pumps are WAY more efficient than the dart NW

[specialreef]

i got a quick one. Are tiny little bubbles better then some regular sized(bigger) bubbles?

[bryanth73]

smaller the better = more surface area and contact time

[mr.wilson]

PSFB brings up a good point. Bubble merging can occur if the column is too large or if you inject too much air into it. P.R. Escobals Aquatic System Engineering book has all of the formulas you need to calculate the optimum parameters.

This website is also very helpful.
http://www.hawkfish.org/snailman/skimmer101.htm

Some collection stations and wholesalers use less efficient, oversized skimmers so they can have an impressive picture for their website. Giant phallic symbols don't do much for me, but it lets everybody know "Hey, we may not know what we're doing, but we mean business". It's also easy to talk an investor into something impressive like that, rather than a series of right-sized 6' x 12" skimmers.

A long dwell/contact time is ideal, but there is a limit to contact chamber size. A series of medium to large skimmers will work better than a single oversized unit due to bubble popping and premature merging. It is also more cost effective to use smaller diameter pipe. You can build ten medium sized skimmers for the price of one large one.

Minor changes in salinity (as experienced with large vats in commercial facilities) water level, and air injection, may cease skimmer production. If the skimmer isn't overflowing, it serves no purpose. Multiple skimmers will assure that you aren't putting all of your eggs in one giant, phallic, basket.

Protein skimming is more of a matter of quality than quantity. You should research some of the air-driven skimmer threads here on RC. Plumb the skimmer directly into the overflow and have the water flow to each skimmer in succession.

Protein skimming is difficult with such a high bioload, as experienced with newly acquired live rock. If your plan is to cure live rock on an ongoing basis, then you may be better off focusing your resources in other directions. Biological filtration will remove ammonia and nitrite, which are your main concerns. Nitrate is a non-issue while stabilizing rock. The rock has all the bacteria you need to keep it clean, you just have to harness the power. A stable bacterial colony will break down the die-off occurring around it. Oxygenating the rock & water will solve most of your problem.

I would set-up an ebb & flow system, whereby the vat fills with water, then drains via timer or float switch. The ebb & flow process should take a few minutes and cycle continually. High and low mercury switches will govern the water levels, and back-siphon/gravity (back through the pump to the sump) will drain it. You should plumb in an emergency overflow as a fail-safe.

Alternatively, you could have this set-up to cycle water back and forth between two or more vats. As one fills, the other drains, then reversed. An ebb & flow system will turn your rock into a giant biowheel-style filter. The well oxygenated rock will quickly restore bacterial film and reduce rotting sponges and other casualties. Some oscillating fans will help as well.

Your going to have to set-up something for the smell. Small containers of silica gel can be soaked periodically with liquid air freshener. You could also make a carbon filter out of a 5 gallon bucket and an exhaust fan. Ionizers aren't strong enough to get the job done. An exhaust fan is a good idea though.

Another option is to use ozone with your skimmer. The residual ozone will kill airborne odours as well, but be very careful of exposure to ozone. If dosed properly, the amount of ozone you generate will dissipate as it oxidizes water and airborne organics. If you overdose, you will have residual ozone issues to contend with. The carbon filter will aid in this. You could have the ozonizer on a timer, so it kicks in at night when you're not around. Good ventilation is very important.

[AngeloM3]

Could some PLEASE PLEASE... PRETTY PLEASE answer a couple questions I have. I've posted these questions in a couple different threads and they just got overlooked.

I have a Euro-Reef CS6-1 with a Sedra KSP-3500 that has the clear/white needle-wheel. I'm not getting that much skimmate and not that much air in the skimmer body.

Which is better..... buy the black needle-wheel or do a mesh mod??
I have no valve at the end of the venturi tube.... I've read that if you put a valve at the end and restrict the air its suppose to put more air in the skimmer body.... can someone please explain a little more??

Again... pretty please with sugar on top... could someone help me out here. My fish are choking on their own poop in my tank

[AngeloM3]

Could some PLEASE PLEASE... PRETTY PLEASE answer a couple questions I have. I've posted these questions in a couple different threads and they just got overlooked.

I have a Euro-Reef CS6-1 with a Sedra KSP-3500 that has the clear/white needle-wheel. I'm not getting that much skimmate and not that much air in the skimmer body.

Which is better..... buy the black needle-wheel or do a mesh mod??
I have no valve at the end of the venturi tube.... I've read that if you put a valve at the end and restrict the air its suppose to put more air in the skimmer body.... can someone please explain a little more??

Again... pretty please with sugar on top... could someone help me out here. My fish are choking on their own poop in my tank

[melev]

Have you checked the tubing to make sure it isn't clogged up with salt? Can you submerge the end of it in a cup of hot water, which will siphon down into the pump and clear the tubing.

[laverda]

The mesh well mod is viturly free and wooks very well. It sure gave my Sedra powered ASM skimmer a boost.

[AngeloM3]

Originally posted by melev
Have you checked the tubing to make sure it isn't clogged up with salt? Can you submerge the end of it in a cup of hot water, which will siphon down into the pump and clear the tubing.

oops sorry about the double post earlier....RC has been acting weird for me.

I had to buy a new nozzle for my Sedra 3500 and it already had a new tube attached, so I just connected to my pump. I checked the needle-wheel also (its the clear/white one) and there are no needles missing.

[hogben]

I've been modding the heck out of my ASM skimmer, recirculation, gate valve, needle valve to control air, and mesh mod.

After reading this

Anything less than raw water overflowed straight into the skimmer is a compromise.

I decided to try it. I have always just had my ASM sitting in the sump with not much thought to the quality of water it receives. It has always skimmed at a rating of fair.

If what Anothony says is true, this change will probably increase the effeciency of my skimmer more then all of the mods I have already done, and it's so simple!

After some plumbing changes the skimmer is now fed directly from the overflow. So far results look good, I'll post updates after a few days maybe with some pictures.