Plz help me I done something stupid

Rudgie · 02/13/2014, 10:40 AM

Hey guys I really hope someone can help me I have spent my whole life savings on a 120 gallon tank I got 40 kg off live rock in there I waited 5 weeks for it to cycle water was good input a large lion in 3 weeks went by loving my new tank so I got a baby blue face which was good for a week or so but for some reason he started to attack lion so he had to go a week later he looked like he had white spot I left him for a couple off days and it went away. But 2 days again it had come back so bad on him I went to my lfs and he told me the only really cure is copper so last night I have given him one dose in my tank as I couldn't afforded to buy a qt after reading more on the internet I'm am really starting to regret it I'm only planning to have fowlr but what I have read the rock and my coral sand will die so 400 quid down the crap hole which I can't afforded to replace my real question is is one dose to much for live rock and sand to stay alive if I do water change and get some carbon filter tonight plz tell me I haven't screwed it all up I would hate to have to get rid off tank before I really started any help would be amazing thxs steve

MTF7 · 02/13/2014, 11:24 AM

How much of the treatment did you use?

Reefmedic79 · 02/13/2014, 11:53 AM

To Reef Central

Any amount of copper is toxic to invertebrates, but not necessarily to the denitrifying bacteria needed to maintain an aquarium.

If the tank is only intended as a FOWLR, then you don't have much to worry about. It is however, very unlikely that you will eve be able to keep a shrimp, snail, crab or coral in the tank with the current LR and sand in it.

Not related to the your question, but in future posts you will likely get more responses if you use some punctuation in your posts, as this one is a little difficult to read.

Sk8r · 02/13/2014, 12:02 PM

Get a product called Polyfilter. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=4335 Put it in the water flow, where water can't avoid it. And just let it run. If it turns blue, it is absorbing the copper and it will not let it go. Running the polyfilter long enough, until there is not a hint of blue to be had, will remove all that copper. At very worst, you will have to recycle the tank. Until you can get Polyfilter, a 20% water change and running carbon will be a good idea.

Live rock is live all the way to the core. You don't think there's room for bacteria in those micro-pores in the heart of rock, but there is. So there's life in there, and the copper that went in can soak right back out again by copper-free water and be picked up by the polyfilter, no matter where it's sunk in. It will come out.

Rudgie · 02/13/2014, 12:31 PM

Hi Thank You for your reply,I have only put one dose off 20ml in last night and everything is still alive like the alge etc.I have even got a little anemone who is still alive,so I think we'll hope it might not be to late.I shall go and get some of that poly filter stuff tomorrow,I got carbon running now and making up 25% water change.Sorry about punctuation I'm dyslexic due to car crash! But thank you for your help I will certainly try harder with my punctuation.

julie180 · 02/13/2014, 03:48 PM

Welcome Rudgie. The poly filter they are talking about is not the white fluffy stuff that is called filter floss or something like that. Make sure you get the correct thing.

http://www.marineandreef.com/Poly_Fi...FZDm7AodfGsAmQ

Sk8r · 02/14/2014, 12:11 AM

INdeed, welcome, Rudgie! Your tank should get through this fine. Very fortunately you twigged to the fact there could be a problem and got to this fast.

Remember if water quality is an issue, 20% water change and run carbon will help most situations.
At least it's a good start on a correction. If it's really bad, you can do 30% the first day and 20% on the second day after.

Rudgie · 02/14/2014, 04:12 AM

Hi guys and gals thank so much for the welcome, I have done 25% water change last night and plan to do another tomorrow. I got carbon and put copper removal in there as well, I have checked today before I went to work all my alge my anonme which was a hitch hicker and they all still alive, guessing all this might be a good thing. My lfs don't sell that poly filter so I have ordered some off line. Could u please advice me am I better off getting a qt or could I use nt labs reef safe stuff, because I still got my lion fish full off white spot, and he my pride and joy, and I hate him suffering. If u get qt tank should I turn temp up on my dt to get rid off any eggs in the sand.
Your help is so much appreciated if I could buy u all a pint I would . Thank you for your help.

Sk8r · 02/14/2014, 12:12 PM

Lol---if I could take it I would! So thanks!

I've just put a post up on an emergency qt---which can also be used for a regular qt: read that, up somewhere in this list of threads; I'd pull the lion out to qt so you can treat him with real meds, but I need to ask elsewhere whether you can use copper with a lion. First step, bring the water quality to match the numbers I have in my sig line, at least where it regards temperature, salinity, and alkalinity, and that will help him a lot to fend off this parasite.

Sk8r · 02/14/2014, 12:16 PM

OK, got your answer: lionfish don't do well with copper. Hyposalinity is your best treatment, and that should be done in a qt. Make your qt tank, set it up as I recommend, just bare tank with aeration and a pot filter (see my post) and once the fish is in there, gradually pour in fresh water until the salinity is 1.009.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1991470

Catch your fish, put him [them] in the hospital tank at regular salinity, and, over 12-48 hours, slowly lower the salinity in the hospital tank to 1.009 by adding warm fresh water: conditioned water [use Prime] is ok for this. Draw a 'fill line' on your tank glass, representing the water level at that precise salinity, and keep it exactly that by the addition of more fresh water to make up for evaporation. No rise and fall---a rise back to 1.025 favors the parasite surviving. Keep the pressure unremittingly on the parasite, no letup: keep that fill line exactly. You should see a happier fish soon, return of appetite, etc. If you don't have a refractometer, it would be a good investment. An ordinary bare bargain brand 10 gallon tank should be ok for a qt...something you can see through to keep tabs on him.

It is safe to lower salinity fairly fast; RAISING it should be done over a much longer period.

Rudgie · 02/14/2014, 12:48 PM

Hey thank you so much ,I'm picking up a qt tomorrow and will do everything u said can't thank enough I will let u no how it goes if that is ok.

02/13/2014, 10:40 AM	#1
Rudgie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 9	Plz help me I done something stupid Hey guys I really hope someone can help me I have spent my whole life savings on a 120 gallon tank I got 40 kg off live rock in there I waited 5 weeks for it to cycle water was good input a large lion in 3 weeks went by loving my new tank so I got a baby blue face which was good for a week or so but for some reason he started to attack lion so he had to go a week later he looked like he had white spot I left him for a couple off days and it went away. But 2 days again it had come back so bad on him I went to my lfs and he told me the only really cure is copper so last night I have given him one dose in my tank as I couldn't afforded to buy a qt after reading more on the internet I'm am really starting to regret it I'm only planning to have fowlr but what I have read the rock and my coral sand will die so 400 quid down the crap hole which I can't afforded to replace my real question is is one dose to much for live rock and sand to stay alive if I do water change and get some carbon filter tonight plz tell me I haven't screwed it all up I would hate to have to get rid off tank before I really started any help would be amazing thxs steve

02/13/2014, 11:53 AM	#3
Reefmedic79 Life and Reef Saver Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Tavares, Florida Posts: 6,202	*To Reef Central* Any amount of copper is toxic to invertebrates, but not necessarily to the denitrifying bacteria needed to maintain an aquarium. If the tank is only intended as a FOWLR, then you don't have much to worry about. It is however, very unlikely that you will eve be able to keep a shrimp, snail, crab or coral in the tank with the current LR and sand in it. Not related to the your question, but in future posts you will likely get more responses if you use some punctuation in your posts, as this one is a little difficult to read. __________________ ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º>¸. ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> How much deeper would the ocean be if it didn't have sponges? P. Sherman 42 Wallaby Way Sid Current Tank Info: 40 Breeder, 20L Sump, 10G Fuge, JBJ A.T.O, 4" Reef Octopus, DIY Stand & Canopy, RapidLED Dimmable 36 Kit on 3 6" MakersLED Heatsink, MP10es

02/13/2014, 12:02 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Get a product called Polyfilter. http://www.drsfostersmith.com/produc...fm?pcatid=4335 Put it in the water flow, where water can't avoid it. And just let it run. If it turns blue, it is absorbing the copper and it will not let it go. Running the polyfilter long enough, until there is not a hint of blue to be had, will remove all that copper. At very worst, you will have to recycle the tank. Until you can get Polyfilter, a 20% water change and running carbon will be a good idea. Live rock is live all the way to the core. You don't think there's room for bacteria in those micro-pores in the heart of rock, but there is. So there's life in there, and the copper that went in can soak right back out again by copper-free water and be picked up by the polyfilter, no matter where it's sunk in. It will come out. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/14/2014, 12:11 AM	#7
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	INdeed, welcome, Rudgie! Your tank should get through this fine. Very fortunately you twigged to the fact there could be a problem and got to this fast. Remember if water quality is an issue, 20% water change and run carbon will help most situations. At least it's a good start on a correction. If it's really bad, you can do 30% the first day and 20% on the second day after. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/14/2014, 12:12 PM	#9
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Lol---if I could take it I would! So thanks! I've just put a post up on an emergency qt---which can also be used for a regular qt: read that, up somewhere in this list of threads; I'd pull the lion out to qt so you can treat him with real meds, but I need to ask elsewhere whether you can use copper with a lion. First step, bring the water quality to match the numbers I have in my sig line, at least where it regards temperature, salinity, and alkalinity, and that will help him a lot to fend off this parasite. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

02/13/2014, 11:24 AM	#2
MTF7 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Illinois Posts: 285	How much of the treatment did you use?

02/13/2014, 12:31 PM	#5
Rudgie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 9	Hi Thank You for your reply,I have only put one dose off 20ml in last night and everything is still alive like the alge etc.I have even got a little anemone who is still alive,so I think we'll hope it might not be to late.I shall go and get some of that poly filter stuff tomorrow,I got carbon running now and making up 25% water change.Sorry about punctuation I'm dyslexic due to car crash! But thank you for your help I will certainly try harder with my punctuation.

02/13/2014, 03:48 PM	#6
julie180 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Raymore, MO Posts: 2,556	Welcome Rudgie. The poly filter they are talking about is not the white fluffy stuff that is called filter floss or something like that. Make sure you get the correct thing. http://www.marineandreef.com/Poly_Fi...FZDm7AodfGsAmQ

02/14/2014, 04:12 AM	#8
Rudgie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 9	Hi guys and gals thank so much for the welcome, I have done 25% water change last night and plan to do another tomorrow. I got carbon and put copper removal in there as well, I have checked today before I went to work all my alge my anonme which was a hitch hicker and they all still alive, guessing all this might be a good thing. My lfs don't sell that poly filter so I have ordered some off line. Could u please advice me am I better off getting a qt or could I use nt labs reef safe stuff, because I still got my lion fish full off white spot, and he my pride and joy, and I hate him suffering. If u get qt tank should I turn temp up on my dt to get rid off any eggs in the sand. Your help is so much appreciated if I could buy u all a pint I would . Thank you for your help.

02/14/2014, 12:16 PM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	OK, got your answer: lionfish don't do well with copper. Hyposalinity is your best treatment, and that should be done in a qt. Make your qt tank, set it up as I recommend, just bare tank with aeration and a pot filter (see my post) and once the fish is in there, gradually pour in fresh water until the salinity is 1.009. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1991470 Catch your fish, put him [them] in the hospital tank at regular salinity, and, over 12-48 hours, slowly lower the salinity in the hospital tank to 1.009 by adding warm fresh water: conditioned water [use Prime] is ok for this. Draw a 'fill line' on your tank glass, representing the water level at that precise salinity, and keep it exactly that by the addition of more fresh water to make up for evaporation. No rise and fall---a rise back to 1.025 favors the parasite surviving. Keep the pressure unremittingly on the parasite, no letup: keep that fill line exactly. You should see a happier fish soon, return of appetite, etc. If you don't have a refractometer, it would be a good investment. An ordinary bare bargain brand 10 gallon tank should be ok for a qt...something you can see through to keep tabs on him. It is safe to lower salinity fairly fast; RAISING it should be done over a much longer period. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 02/14/2014 at 12:22 PM.

02/14/2014, 12:48 PM	#11
Rudgie Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Posts: 9	Hey thank you so much ,I'm picking up a qt tomorrow and will do everything u said can't thank enough I will let u no how it goes if that is ok.