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Unread 07/16/2012, 12:34 AM   #4951
uncleof6
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I would not go to the trouble of angling the weir, or turning the elbows. With a long weir, I doubt it will get obnoxious. For future reference 1 - 1.5x the hole diameter from the edge of the glass to the edge of the hole--and from each other. Often the holes must be further down, to accommodate the drain system water level. You have not messed up all that much really, if at all. With this drain system, the water level will be around the top of the elbows.


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Unread 07/17/2012, 03:18 PM   #4952
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so getting some info here:
i have a 90 gallon DT with a 30 gallon sump. the sump is going in the basement and it will be pushed back up with a reeflo dart (THANKS uncleof6!).
with the help of him my flow will be 1200GPH using that pump.
reading i see that the TOP of the weir should be 1" from the edge of the glass correct?

finding this chart (from beananimal):
reference:http://reefcentral.com/forums/showpo...14&postcount=3
Depth of water at crest of 4' recangular contracted weir : Florware in GPH
.10" : 300 GPH
.15" : 540 GPH
.20" : 840 GPH
.25" : 1140 GPH
.30" : 1500 GPH
.35" : 1860 GPH
.40" : 2280 GPH
.45" : 2700 GPH
.50" : 3120 GPH

it looks like i need to now have the top of the weir 1.25" from the top (top edge of the glass) correct? will this room give me enough "play" for start up of the pump also before the returns fully kick in?
i am also in a similar boat as SHIZNO, 1 hole has already been drilled (previous owner) for a sump from gl*******s.com. measuring from the center line of this hole i get 4.75 from the top of the rim. do i just make the front weir longer to accommodate this?

also, how close do the 90's need to be from the bottom of the weir? i assume close enough that snails and such cannot enter? is .25 going to be to small and not allow water to flow correctly?

and by doing some reading, shutting down the return pump and power outages are give my basement floor some watering?



Last edited by 88rxna; 07/17/2012 at 04:13 PM.
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Unread 07/18/2012, 03:57 PM   #4953
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1/2 to 3/4 from bottom of elbow to bottom of weir!!!

after searching FOREVER i found it!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...postcount=4826

1 answer down....


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Unread 07/18/2012, 05:09 PM   #4954
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On rimmed tanks, the top of the weir should be placed at the bottom of the trim, as viewed from outside the tank. This places the water line out of site. You are hardly going to have to concern yourself over the 1/4" the water level will be above that. This is a fairly common practice with those of us using long overflows and rimmed tanks.

You make the overflow as tall as needed, to accommodate the plumbing yes.

Big sump and smart design = plenty of spare room for power out drain down.


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Unread 07/18/2012, 07:27 PM   #4955
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6 View Post
On rimmed tanks, the top of the weir should be placed at the bottom of the trim, as viewed from outside the tank. This places the water line out of site. You are hardly going to have to concern yourself over the 1/4" the water level will be above that. This is a fairly common practice with those of us using long overflows and rimmed tanks.

You make the overflow as tall as needed, to accommodate the plumbing yes.

Big sump and smart design = plenty of spare room for power out drain down.
i did notice one problem with this after i implemented it. You cannot run any kind of wavemaker due to the fact the water level is too high.


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Unread 07/18/2012, 09:23 PM   #4956
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pandimus View Post
i did notice one problem with this after i implemented it. You cannot run any kind of wavemaker due to the fact the water level is too high.
Well just for the record, I consider wave makers a waste of time and money. Good flow and properly placed (no dead spots) power heads are all that are needed. Wave makers are just another toy to oooo and awwww over ...


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Unread 07/20/2012, 04:48 PM   #4957
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6 View Post
Well just for the record, I consider wave makers a waste of time and money. Good flow and properly placed (no dead spots) power heads are all that are needed. Wave makers are just another toy to oooo and awwww over ...
I dont disagree. Just wanted to make note of in case someone wanted to put a wavemaker in. I will probaly use controllable powerheads and just change my flow around as the day progresses.


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Unread 07/22/2012, 07:12 AM   #4958
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6 View Post
However, things that still stand are the 1" siphon should be able to handle 1500 gph with out coughing. If you cannot get that, your system has a bottleneck in it. I am not going to try and guess where the bottle neck is, don't feel like eating my foot again. If you are looking for more than that, then yes, you should open up the plumbing size.

The second is the way the plumbing is configured could cause you some problems. Adjustment, and the siphon may not be kicking in fully. One of the first things I would do is reconfigure that system and eliminate all the horizontal runs. This is a gravity system. Horizontal runs give you no gravity advantage, and they can trap air, and prevent the siphon from fully forming. This will reduce the flow capacity of the drain. Reconfigure includes moving the sump to a more advantageous location,in terms of the drains. It may be inconvenient--but function comes first.

This system works well as designed. (see bean's original design.) The place to start, when trouble shooting a problem, is how much did you change the design. Balanced (or close to it) flow between the open channel and siphon is a problem. (not adjusting correctly) I would expect to see starting issues, with your configuration. And on the surface, from what you say, there is, but it is masked by the adjustment. There should be a very noticeable difference in flow between the siphon and open channel. The only noticeable explanation is the configuration.
Re-plumbed yesterday and it now flows like niagra falls!!!
Man, what a difference. As you can see, no more horizontal runs (except for going through the wall) and no 90 elbows. And now my Reeflo Barracuda Gold return pump is running at full tilt, rather than being turned down to around 50%. And you can see that my siphon drain is also turned down a bit.
The system now starts up as it's supposed to. And almost all my flow is coming out of the siphon with just a trickle out of the open channel.
So now we have definitive proof that BeanAnimal does in fact work as designed when going through a wall!

Thanks for the help!


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Unread 07/27/2012, 08:51 AM   #4959
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Oh my sweet Jesus that is beautiful.


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Unread 07/27/2012, 09:05 AM   #4960
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So... I am about to put in my order for my overflow and all of the plumbing, and I just want to make sure I'm not missing anything... This is going on my 4 foot 120 gallon.

I used Bean's exploded diagram to make up my plumbing inventory, except I am using 1 inch plumbing all the way around... Is 1 inch plumbing good if I am only planning about 1000GPH flow through?

My overflow box is going to be 24 inches wide, 4 inches deep, and 5 inches tall... Will this leave enough room inside of the box to slide the strainer elbows into the bulkhead?

Any other tips?


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Unread 07/27/2012, 09:23 AM   #4961
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Uncle of 6, you posted this on converting dual corner overflows into the bean animal
Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6 View Post
well, yes and no. There are a couple options, though putting a herbie in one overflow, and blocking off the other would be a little simpler.

The overflows can be bridged, with a narrow weir, put the siphon in one overflow box, the open channel in the other, the emergency in one, and the return in the other.

Another option, is to put the siphon and open channel in one overflow box, and the return and dry emergency in the other. Water would need to be kept out of the second overflow, as there would be no water movement inside, and it would stagnate.

The grand plan would be to remove the corner overflows, plug the holes, and install a coast to coast. Drill and plumb out the back of the tank.

Jim
Just to verify that I have this correctly, as long as the bottom of the weir is lower than the open channel, I would have connected the two boxes together and they should work like one long overflow box.

Also, could the original standpipes be used and kept as two open channels and just convert one of the returns into the siphon. Although there would be no "emergency" the two open shouldn't have any problems handling the flow(since that's how it was designed)

Lastly, I have the "slits" that are in the current weirs on the tank, should i put the C2C slightly lower than the bottom of the slits so more water goes down the smooth back instead of the slits?


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Unread 07/27/2012, 10:31 AM   #4962
uncleof6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dwolson2 View Post
Uncle of 6, you posted this on converting dual corner overflows into the bean animal

Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6
well, yes and no. There are a couple options, though putting a herbie in one overflow, and blocking off the other would be a little simpler.

The overflows can be bridged, with a narrow weir, put the siphon in one overflow box, the open channel in the other, the emergency in one, and the return in the other.

Another option, is to put the siphon and open channel in one overflow box, and the return and dry emergency in the other. Water would need to be kept out of the second overflow, as there would be no water movement inside, and it would stagnate.

The grand plan would be to remove the corner overflows, plug the holes, and install a coast to coast. Drill and plumb out the back of the tank.

Jim
Just to verify that I have this correctly, as long as the bottom of the weir is lower than the open channel, I would have connected the two boxes together and they should work like one long overflow box.
Essentially, yes. As long as the valve in the siphon line, controls the water level equally (no drops etc. one body of water) it should work properly. I do not see this as the ideal solution, but it is workable.

Quote:
Also, could the original standpipes be used and kept as two open channels and just convert one of the returns into the siphon. Although there would be no "emergency" the two open shouldn't have any problems handling the flow(since that's how it was designed)
However, all three standpipes must be used, or you short circuit the fail safe. There should not be an issue handling the flow rate, but that is not the purpose of the dry emergency.

It is important to point out, that any drain line with water flowing in it, is at risk of being plugged. It is a plain safety consideration that a dry emergency MUST be used when running a siphon line, to not use one, is just asking for a flood. Bean has explained this many many times.

In terms of the tank "being designed to handle the flow," if it were, there would be no need to modify the drain system. Truth is, IMO, reef ready tanks are not designed to handle flow, they are designed to take your money. They provide an outdated simple answer to a complex question--the results are not satisfactory--in many cases.

Quote:
Lastly, I have the "slits" that are in the current weirs on the tank, should i put the C2C slightly lower than the bottom of the slits so more water goes down the smooth back instead of the slits?
I would take the teeth off the overflows as well. Be aware that the water level in the tank, will be ~ the top of the weir, and bottom of the teeth is usually pretty low. You may wish to explore an alternative solution such as blocking the "slits" and bringing the top edge of the "bridge" to a more reasonable level.


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Unread 07/27/2012, 06:41 PM   #4963
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BeanAnimal View Post
Joel,

For starters, turn off that silly tapatalk signature...

The setup is described numerous times in this thread, but essentially you will need to either connect the overflow boxes with a coast-to-coast wier or you will need to fill one of them with sand (nice small DSB) to prevent the water in it from stagnating. One box would have the open channel (large bullhead) and siphon (small) and the other box would have the emergency (large bulkhead) and return (small).

Spend a bit of time browsing the thread and you will find a lot more detail of the how and why


Hey Bean and All,
So I've been browsing the thread over the past few weeks (I've been skipping around here and there...probably read about 100 + pages...man this thread is huge) and I have a few questions about applying this to my setup.

I've read that trying to use both overflows independently will be almost impossible to balance the siphon lines to get them to work together. What if both siphon lines were joined via a T and then went to a valve to adjust the flow? Couldn't you also place a line joining both overflows using the return ports to make sure the flow between both is balanced? I'm not an expert in flow dynamics but it seems that the idea behind the C2C is to balance the flow between both overflows and by joining them with PVC you may accomplish the same thing.

Also my overflows are predrilled with one 1 inch bulkhead meant for as the drain and two 1/2 in bulkheads meant for the returns. Would this setup work if you used both 1/2 in lines as the siphon and open channel drains and had them joined underneath and then used the 1 inch lines as the emergency drain? It seems like this would give you the three drains required for the setup to work and allow for a larger Emergency drain just incase things don't work. I would then run the return over the back as that seems to be a better option. If this has been discussed already and I missed it sorry to double (triple, quadruple,etc) post. Let me know what people think about this.

Oh and Bean...I turned off the stupid tapatalk deal!


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Unread 08/10/2012, 10:40 PM   #4964
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I have a similar issue as Joel's...my tank is a 300g with dual corner overflows each measures 6"x18" with two 1.5" drains and two 3/4" returns. I would like to use the BA style drain, but not sure of the best way to do it. My question is similar to above...Is there a way to make it work by joining the two overflows together at the bottom and splitting the three lines between the two overflows? Or is there a good way to make two drain systems work in tandem, one in each overflow? I really do not want to remove the overflows and drill the tank.


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Unread 08/11/2012, 10:26 AM   #4965
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I have been looking for an alternative to the durso stand pipe method. Durso requires a drilled reef ready, do I have to drill my tank for this method?


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Unread 08/11/2012, 11:30 AM   #4966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Grandmaster_Toad View Post
I have been looking for an alternative to the durso stand pipe method. Durso requires a drilled reef ready, do I have to drill my tank for this method?
Yes.


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Unread 08/11/2012, 12:03 PM   #4967
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Dave and Joel,

This has been discussed at length several times over the course of the thread.

While it may be possible to join standpipes, the results are not predictable. It may be easier to join the corner overflows with a DIY internal weir connecting them. Another (easier) alternative is to fill one overflow box with sand, using the large standpipe in it as the emergency and the small as a return. You got a nice little RDSB in the tank and a functional 3 standpipe overflow sytem.


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Unread 08/12/2012, 05:57 AM   #4968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by horseplay View Post
Folks, I am relatively new to the hobby and have always been inspired by the various DIY projects going on on this forum. I have done some basic plumbing for sumps and built a sump, very basic stuff.

I am thinking about building BeAn style overflows for 125g and 40g tanks. I will start with the 40g. Here are my questions.

1. Size. If the flow of the 40g tank is 400gph should I use 1/2", 3/4" or 1" bulkheads? Does it matter? What size would be good for the 125g tank if flow is 1000gph. I am talking about actual flow rate.

2. What is the purpose of the tee and cap of the siphon and standpipe? For ease of cleaning? Can I simply use a street elbow? I think the street elbow will make it easy to purge the air.

3. It looks like the smallest diameter "Sanitary" tee is 1.5". Can I use a regular tee instead?

That's all I have now

1) The smaller standpipes will handle the 400 GPH flow. The problem is that a small "open channel" can cause some noise. So on the 400GPH system, I would go with at least 3/4" bulkheads and plumbing, but utilize a 1" standpipe for the open channel. On the larger system, i would follow the design as laid out (1" or larger bulkheads and 1.25" or 1.5" standpipes)

2) Ease of cleaning. A street elbow will work. Be aware that if the air intake of the open channel is IN the water flow, it will make awful noise.

3) Regular Tee will work. The San-tee improves the flow capacity and reduces noise by reducing splashing in the open channel on some systems. An alternative is to cant (lean) the open channel standpipe slightly to one side so that the water flows from the tee onto the side of the standpipe instead of splashing down the center.


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Unread 08/12/2012, 10:35 AM   #4969
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P-traps instead of elbows?

Can I just use the U shaped part from a p-trap on the top of my intake instead of a capped t with an elbow turned down? And I can use a clean out p-trap and remove the clean out cap and affix a air tube nozzle fitting for the backup overflow.


I would think it Looks much cleaner, less fittings etc. I can friction fit so they are removable to clean and clear

Appreciate any thoughts.


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Unread 08/12/2012, 10:47 AM   #4970
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I put a weir from one overflow to the other, then notched out the back behind the weir to connect the overflows.


From left to right, siphon, emergency, return, open.



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Unread 08/18/2012, 08:37 AM   #4971
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Here is my attempt for the ultra silent Be An overflow.cube 32*32*32 Cost to cost overflow 5’’*5’’ , 1’’ from the trim. Three holes 1.5” .Distance from the center of the holes till the end glass of the aquarium 4.25”. Still not sure about the side trim I don’t know if they are in need.(?) the system will cycle 5 time the mount of the water; almost 660 gph. Any thought on your mind?


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Unread 08/18/2012, 12:03 PM   #4972
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Unread 08/18/2012, 01:16 PM   #4973
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sifnos View Post
Here is my attempt for the ultra silent Be An overflow.cube 32*32*32 Cost to cost overflow 5’’*5’’ , 1’’ from the trim. Three holes 1.5” .Distance from the center of the holes till the end glass of the aquarium 4.25”. Still not sure about the side trim I don’t know if they are in need.(?) the system will cycle 5 time the mount of the water; almost 660 gph. Any thought on your mind?
Unless the glass is 19mm thick, you will need the bracing, and probably more at both the top and inside bottom.... even with 19mm sides, you need a 1" bottom panel, or an internal bottom eurobrace around 12mm thick.

As far as the overflow/drain system, I would drop the top edge of the weir to 1" below the top edge of the glass, at least.


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Unread 08/18/2012, 05:10 PM   #4974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by uncleof6 View Post
Unless the glass is 19mm thick, you will need the bracing, and probably more at both the top and inside bottom.... even with 19mm sides, you need a 1" bottom panel, or an internal bottom eurobrace around 12mm thick.

As far as the overflow/drain system, I would drop the top edge of the weir to 1" below the top edge of the glass, at least.
it is not the first time that am constructing in that dimension. 12mm with eurobrace(both up and down of curse) is just fine.if i want it to be rimless my choice would be 17mm(aka19mm) with 30mm bottom. Due to the cost to cost overflow the back trim can be ignored MAYBE the side ones too( i am going to test it with ansys)

why you suggest to drop the edge of the weir 1''????


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Unread 08/18/2012, 05:56 PM   #4975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sifnos View Post
it is not the first time that am constructing in that dimension. 12mm with eurobrace(both up and down of curse) is just fine.if i want it to be rimless my choice would be 17mm(aka19mm) with 30mm bottom. Due to the cost to cost overflow the back trim can be ignored MAYBE the side ones too( i am going to test it with ansys)
I would advise against that.

Quote:
why you suggest to drop the edge of the weir 1''????
More wiggle room--it appears in the drawing that the top edge of the weir, is up against the bracing. Too close for comfort.

This is a bit off topic, perhaps a separate thread would be best.


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