Acro Eating Flatworms in a Bowl: Test Time!

[Sparkss]

slug,

We have wrasses in our main tank, and have only found evidence of AEFWs on 1 colony, took it out and dipped it (it was not encrusted yet) and have not since seen any evidences of AEFWs (lots of coral inspections and frequent turkey basting of rocks and corals). Conversely our prop tank (which is tied into our main tank via a common sump) has no wrasses and that is where we are battling the AEFWs.

I am unsure of the true correlation between the prescence/abscence of the wrasses and mandarins and the abscence/prescence of AEFWs.

We used to have a leopard wrasse, sixline wrasse and a green target mandarin.. but the leopard wrasse dissappeared mysteriously about a month ago (shortly before we noticed yet another hitchiker crab that has since been erased from the tank).

[slug]

Has anyone tried PraziPro on aefw? I have a bottle and wanted to capture a few flatoworms to see if it kills em but can't find any in my tank anymore. It is said to be safe as an in tank treatment... at least the bottle says so

http://www.aquariumguys.com/prazipro.html

[Sparkss]

<5% praziquantel by weight

Seems like I heard that chemical being bandied about in previous discussions about either AEFWs or RedBugs. Interesting none the less, since the medicine specifically notes flukes, and we have seen positive results with fluke medicines. Maybe the "experts" will chime in

[Sparkss]

Here is what I found searching RC for PraziPro. This is a fellow reefers account of his in tank use of PraziPro. He was using it for Pinched Mantle treatment of his Clams, but the bulk of his information is valid to us (as long as someone can confirm that it also kills the AEFWs):


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Originally posted by thedude15810
A fellow reefer asked me if I would explain my treatment for pinched mantle with Prazi Pro in detail and I figure it's better to post it here for everyone to see:

Upon receiving a clam near the 1st of June (small 1.5 inch croacea) I discovered what I observed to be pinched mantle. This was confirmed when the tank he was sold from had a gigas die from pinched mantle. The clam did not look like it was doing terribly but in order to head the problem off at the pass if you will, I began researching methods of treatment. FW dips will help the clam out for several days but the infection usually returns within a week. I know I took a huge risk (my tank has extreme flow and is all SPS and that small croacea along with a large 6 inch one. The 6 inch clam showed no signs of infection but I wanted to rid the water column of the infection as well. I read somewhere (I honestly can't remember where but I imagine it was on clamsdirect's forum) that people had sucess with prazipro. I read the label of the bottle and it claimed to kill fluke (the infection is a type of protozoan) and was totally reef safe. I have a 30 gallon aquarium with a 10 gallon sump for reference but used whatever the recommended dose was, I believe 1 tablespoon. I turned my skimmer off for 6 hours then adjusted it down when I took it back online (Euroreef CS6-1). Within the next day, the clam was the most expanded it had been and within two days was out like a normal happy clam should be. I experienced no side effects save the skimmer going a little crazy and it's now been 3 weeks with no sign of the infection returning. Oh, also I added the dosage only once and to the overflow to give it a maximum mixing time before going into the tank. Hope this helps and let me know if I can do anything else for you!

*I'd also like to include a list of the corals and critters that were unaffected by the medication (it supposedly kills flatworms as well )
-Various fish including a Potter's Angel, chalk basslet, and yellow assessor
-Shrimp including cleaner and peppermint
-Various hermits and an emerald crab
-Snails (Astrea, Turbo, Cerith)
-Acropora species including torts, stags, and a small tabling frag
-Montiporas
-Blastos
-Zooanthids and Palythoas of various colors

John

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[just dave]

I tried Prazipro and posted about it but my results were inconclusive. It did not seem to harm anything that was added to the test tank. I had a acro,monti,shrimp,snail,crabs,algae,"pods",and the flatworms.

[Sparkss]

thanks just dave. I did a search on RC and did not come across your thread/post. I am thankful that you reiterated your results, although it "sucks" that it didn't affect the flatworms.... I am still on track to try a 2X dosage of FWE this weekend....with my fingers and toes crossed

[one eye]

Sorry, I haven't been over hear for a while.

I've posted this here before, so sorry if you've read it already.

I found the fw's on some frags I was qt ing. I first noticed scaring or bite marks on a Larry Jackson. We didn't have a clue about Levamisole at the time. I wanted to try and figure out the life cycle of the fw's. I used a few small tanks, two 2 1/2 gal and a 5 gal. barebottem with no rock other than what the frags were mounted to.
First I fresh water dipped a portion the Larry Jackson. I saw one large fw on the portion I was fresh water dipping using a x10 mag glass. When I did the dip I found over 30 very small dead fw's in the container. I probably never would have seen them had I not used a black container for the dip. They were 1/16 of an inch at the most.
I placed frags with what I assumed to be adult fw's (1/2" to 3/4") in one tank, I placed frags with smaller fw's in another tank and frags with eggs only in the 3rd.
The large flatworms cleaned the flesh off their host acro within a week. I placed several different frags into the tank. I tried digitata, caps, poccilipora, stylo, etc. The fw's starved within 5 days without acropora.
The smaller fw's in tank 2. I only saw these fw's by using a somewhat strange method. I held the coral out of water for about 15 minutes, this seems to cause the fw's to find a moist spot and stay put. I then held the coral about an inch under the surface of the water and took macro's as fast as my camera would allow, using the flash. When I downloaded the pics onto my computer I could see the fw's reflected from the flash, I could see them moving across the coral (I posted the pics, they may still be in my gallery) These fw's I fed acro frags.
The eggs in tank 3. I took pics of the infected corals. I watched this tank very closely. Within 2 weeks all the eggs in the first set of pics had hatched. Like was stated above after hatching the eggs are more transparent, deflated and they also scrape off easier. What disturbed me was that the fw's were tiny, like dandruff sized. (Again the only way I could see them was with the photography method I mentioned.) They were 2 weeks or less in age and I was finding new eggs on the frags.

Like I said, I've posted this here before. Several times actually.

I bought a ricordea from a local reefer last weekend. He has been trying the basting and power head method for some time. He's also introduced several wrasses and angels that are supposed to be fw eaters. The rubble the ric was attached to had 2 large fw's on it. I could see them using just a mag glass. I dipped the coral for 6 hours in a Levamisole dip, I went slightly over the 40 ppm.
I found the 2 large fw's dead in the container along with several other smaller fw's. If your using this method, please refrain from trading. This method may eventually work, but it is absolutely going to push the fw's into the water column, they have to land somewhere eventually.

And in closing, the fw's are specific in their diet. They will starve rather than eat anything other than acropora flesh, but they are not as specific as to were they lay eggs. I've found the eggs on zoanthids...I believe that pic is in my gallery as well.

[just dave]

Originally posted by Sparkss
thanks just dave. I did a search on RC and did not come across your thread/post. I am thankful that you reiterated your results, although it "sucks" that it didn't affect the flatworms.... I am still on track to try a 2X dosage of FWE this weekend....with my fingers and toes crossed

I didn't say it didn't kill them. I just said the results were inconclusive as the control group died as well. It could have been they died sooner because of not having a food source.

[Sparkss]

Thanks 1-I and Just Dave.

I may try the propazi anyways, since one of our clams looks like it might be developing pinched mantle. At this point I doubt that it will cause the FW population to boom

Eric B also posted that using a cold water dip worked well for dislodging the AEFWs. Taking freshly mixed SW and putting it into the refrigerator (not freezer) to use as a dip later. He stated that the corals handled the dip better than they did a lugols dip and that the AEFWs bailed almost instantly upon hitting the cold water. We bought some of the Tropic Marin Pro Coral Cure to use for dipping any new corals, as it has been stated by mutlipole reefers here on RC to kill the AEFWs.

[Bigred]

Well got my TMPCC today and tried it on some AEFW's and it has to be a dosage to effect them If I put the stuff directly on them they shrivel in kaotic fashion but the FWE does the same. But if it's diluted it seems to be not as effective. I did about a gal of tank water with about 5 ml and but in thinking now it wasn't enough compared to the dosage required. Should of been about 20 ml to 1 gal. So I'll try that on the next ones I find.

Just for some info I found some eggs today and they are about a day and a half old. So I have them in a 7 gal nano I have with just tank water and a pump to keep circulation going. Lets see how long it takes them to hatch out.

[clkwrk]

I found that a full bottle will treat 10 gallons approx at the recommended dose

[Bigred]

Well Weatherson and I have taken pics out of the water and you can see them fairly easy once the coral dries without mags. The pics are earlier in this thread. From what I have seen they don't move extremely fast, about as fast as a nassuris snail. They do die in my bowl in about 4-5 days and they seem to melt away but I have had a few live up to 7 days. What I want to know is what the egg cycling period is? If we can figure this out I think a heavy dosage of FWE will seem to work. I'm going to dose my tank with 3.5 bottles of FWE this weekend if it comes in on friday if not I'll be doing it on monday. My total water volume is around 400 gal so one bottle treats 300 gal so I'm doing just about 3 times the normal dose. Then if we figure out what the hatching period is I'll do it twice more in the end of each hatch period.

[clkwrk]

Cool !Can't wait to find out

[MSHUR]

guys,
where did u get tropic marin pro-cure? cant find it nowhere(

mike

[clkwrk]

I got mine from one of my LFS's I am not sure where eles to find it .

[Bigred]

I got mine at **********.com

http://**********.com/main.php?item_id=503&item_type=56

[clkwrk]

He just started carring it Finally an etailer in the us has it

[MSHUR]

ohhh...i didnt know ,eric carrie in...cool i will order it from him))

thankx,steve

[Sparkss]

I ordered 3 bottles of FWE for our approx 150 gallons total water volume. I planned to do a bottle the first time out, so double the dosage, then if that goes weel 1 1/2 bottles the second time, for a 3x dosage, then I will order a 4th bottle for the 3rd and hopefully final treatment. But alot depends on the actual dosages that are determined to kill them, their eggs hatching period and how our tank holds up during the first treatments

I keep trying to catch some alive to test dosages of FWE on. I don't expect it to necessarily kill them immediately, but if it can kill then within an hour, then I am fine with that.. heck, except for the possibility of FW die off poison, I would leave it in the tank for hours, if needed (but the first treatment will have to be more or less by the book, since we do have some red planaria, so carbon and water changes will be needed sooner than later after our first treatment. They were never plague proportions, but I have read the stories online.. and don't want to add my name to that list

[weatherson]

I did a 1X first, an almost 2X second and will be doing the third at 3X tomorrow. So it's been two weeks now and not that they aren't still there but I haven't been able to find any signs of them since. I even pulled one of the first colonies to have shown signs of them and found no eggs or flat worms. I hadn't treated this coral individually or other than the tank treatments. I'll post the results from the 3X treatment as far as how everything in the tank fairs from it. In addition, I'm going to do a water change after this treatment just because of the high dose level.

Joseph

[ReeferMac]

Thanks for posting the info again 1-Eye. There's a couple questions in there I'm hoping to find the answer's to as well.
I've tried upwards of 12x recommended dosage of FWExit on my tank (estimated water volume of 180 gallons). I dosed 6.5 bottles of the stuff to rid a red-flatworm infestation. Still got AEFW's. I don't mean to sound discouraging (by all means, trial and error! And report back!), but don't hold out hope for it being an in-tank cure, Weatherson. I've killed AEFW's w/ Salifert FWExit in QT situations, but it was at massive doses (half a bottle per 0.5L water... wee bit more than 12x).

- Mac

[Sparkss]

Joseph,
I don't have the FWE yet, so I don't know if a WC is required (or just recommended) afterwards. Are you saying that you didn't do any additional WCs after the first 2 treatments ? (outside of any that you normally do)

Mac,
Thanks for the information... Can you think of why the relatively same dosage killed the AEFWs in QT but not in your main tank ? Are you sure that the AEFWs that you witnessed in your main tank were already hatched when you did the FWE treatment ? (or could they have been eggs still?) How many treatments and at what treatment schedule did you use the FWE ? How long after the last treatement did you find more AEFWs ? Again, thanks for sharing your experiences

[weatherson]

Tom,
I did the first two FWE treatments just before the red bug treatments so water changes were done after the later. This time around (third FWE treatment), I did the red bug treatment first as I was waiting for the new FWE order. Because of this and the fact that I am upping the dosage to 3X the recommended, I'll be doing a water change after. Mostly, I'm concerned for my large Serpent star and two Linkias.

Joseph

[weatherson]

Here's an update... I did the FWE treatment today at the mentioned 3X dose. My total water volume is essentially 300-gallons so I used three bottles. At the half hour mark, several fish were starting to breath heavily. My Sailfin Tang was the worst as he is the largest in the tank. Keeping a close eye on him, I decided to hold out a bit longer. The large Serpent Star was also acting odd but nothing too severe. I'd planned to treat for an hour long and then do a water change (50-gallons) and start the carbon filtration but at 50-minutes, I couldn't take any more. The Sailfin was hovering at the bottom and still breathing heavily. So, I did the water change and started the carbon. Everyone seems to be doing better since but it was more than frightening there for a moment. I also noticed that there was a huge amount of tiny Serpent Stars moving about on the sand-bed. I also noticed a few super small ones seemingly dead and floating in the water.

So... speculation would be either of two things. The dose was so strong that it affected the fish or... the dosage was so strong that it did actually kill some unseen flatworms and this polluted the tank and was the cause of the fish behavior. Whichever, a triple dose is the maximum limit for me.

Joseph

[Sparkss]

thx for the heads up Joseph. Our FWE showed up here but work is keeping me occupied. I am hoping to get to at least the first treatment tonight (spare cansiter filled with carbon and fresh SW ready to go). We have been trying to find an infected frag to monitor through the treatment. My wife looked at me funny when I said I wanted to find some AEFWs and leave em alive. I will post the results later tonight or tomorrow.

The one thing I am concerned over is the red FW population. I am hoping that they are not so bad as to nuke our tank.. I will go slowly and actually have a second spare canister filter with carbon on hand.. just in case....