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Unread 02/02/2006, 09:16 PM   #76
Kent E
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Has anyone found a negative coraltion between AEflatworms and acro crabs? In other words, has anyone ever had AE flatworms and acro crabs together on the same colony? Just a shot in the dark but that would seem to be a natural deterent.


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:23 PM   #77
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That's what I was thinking. I think we treat for the redbugs and kill off the acro crabs and then the AEFWs take over because they have no protection without the crabs. I was talking to Weatherson about this earlier.


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:27 PM   #78
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this speculation has been posted numerous times and for the most part the feedback has supported the "acro crabs keep AEFWs in check" theory.

Did just the frag tank so far.. saw a couple fo larger clear FWs floating by amidst the red ones.. it will be much better once I take care of the current planaria population and can focus on the AEFWs.


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:28 PM   #79
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I have lots of acro crabs even babies . Only the non hosted smooth type corals and stags had AEFW damaged.

Why is it none of these acro/sps type bugs like pocci ?


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:34 PM   #80
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Does everyone seem to get AEFW after they have had RB or have never had RB?


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:35 PM   #81
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clkwrk,
most likely has to do with the long polyps and nemastocysts (sp? .. ok, so I really hacked that word up.. basically the stingers )


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:37 PM   #82
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just dave,
Weatherson was doing both LRB adn AEFW treatments at the same time... so it looks like he has both. We also noticed both at the same time, but did the LRB treatment first and tried the "blow em off the corals" path for a while. now we are trying alternate methods


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Unread 02/02/2006, 10:41 PM   #83
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I got them after RB treatments but I really think they came in with a certain bali shippment . Since both the reported shipment and the flatworm deal started. The first signs of the AEFW were located near my last introduced bali .


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Unread 02/02/2006, 11:44 PM   #84
Kent E
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Hmmm... after red bug treatment, here. Do you suppose they are always there and something goes out of whack after interceptor?





Can someone with a bad infestation scrounge up acro crabs and give it a try?


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:41 AM   #85
Sparkss
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Quote:
Originally posted by Kent E
Can someone with a bad infestation scrounge up acro crabs and give it a try?

Don't we all wish . If you can supply, I can guarantee a huge demand


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Unread 02/03/2006, 05:33 AM   #86
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkss
... Can you think of why the relatively same dosage killed the AEFWs in QT but not in your main tank ?
No, I don't think it's nearly the same dosage.
... I had a heck of a time getting rid of some reddish FW's that liked to inhabit the sandbed, about a year ago this spring. Tried 1 bottle FWExit (estimated my system's water volume to be about 180 gallons), and followed the directions to the letter (wait for them to start dying, then do a water change, GAC, etc...) 2 weeks later, I saw more reddish FW's.... upped it to 2 bottles the following weekend. 2 weeks later....
So, being the 'big hammer' type of person, I grabbed every bottle my LFS's had, and borrowed some from some friends. I started out dropping in about 4-5 bottles, and just said F-it, shot all 6.5 in there, and walked away. Was going to do a water change the following day, but never got around to it.
The tank suffered I feel (rely on biological filtration heavily), but none of the corals or other decorative inverts were affected.

Now, as for my FWExit trials w/ known AEFW's in a bowl... I had maybe 2-3 cups of water in a specimen container (those tupper-ware thinggies that a sandwich fits in?), and squirted about 1/3rd to 1/2 of a bottle... Volume to volume ratio's I don't know, but when compared to 6.5 bottles in 180 gallons of water, I'm going to hazard a guess that the concentration was far far greater in my little bowl.

Quote:
Are you sure that the AEFWs that you witnessed in your main tank were already hatched when you did the FWE treatment ? (or could they have been eggs still?)
Not certain, but fairly sure. I don't really buy corals much, but do trade occasionally, and I haven't gotten a package for some time (though I did buy a brain frag from my LFS this fall). I haven't gotten any SPS in in quite a while. Going by my receipts, I traded in March of 05 w/ a fellow in OK, and Utah August. I had also traded w/ someone else in October of '04, and he has confirmed the presence of AEFW's in his tank (and we traded many many acro's).
Honestly I don't know for certain where they came from (I believe both trades in '05 contained SPS, likely Acroporids), but... It's like having had sex w/ a hooker, then 2 other partners, and then wondering where the itch came from?
From what I've seen/heard/read about these things, small doses of FWExit won't do the trick. I tried just a few drops of the stuff in my container w/ only a few cups of water in it, and waited several minutes, there was no sign of activity (not to say a few hour soak wouldn't have killed 'em). However when I dumped the large amount of FWExit into the container, that sucker wormed and squirmed post haste. Then he turned into a pile of slimy mush. I was very happy.

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Unread 02/03/2006, 11:30 AM   #87
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Last night's treatment took care of 80% of our red FWs (almost none visible now) and I did see a small handful of larger, clear FWs floating by (highly resembling the AEFWs that we have blown/dipped off of our corals in the past).

I took the approach of running a small canister as a vacuum during the treatment, so that I captured/vacuumed any FW (red or otherwise) that was floating in the water column or lying out in the open now, whether they were dead or just stunned. Later this afternoon I am going to try another dosage (since I went sort of light last night due to knowing I had most likely too many red FWs to safely dose large). As it was our corals did show stress.. lack of PE and a bit of color fading. I left the canisters with carbon running over night and everything looks good this morning. But if they don't look "great" this afternoon, then I will wait for the next treatment (the first "real" one).


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Unread 02/03/2006, 11:39 AM   #88
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Quote:
Originally posted by clkwrk
I got them after RB treatments but I really think they came in with a certain bali shippment . Since both the reported shipment and the flatworm deal started. The first signs of the AEFW were located near my last introduced bali .
I experienced the same thing, they showed up after some Bali introductions. But there is no way to be sure where they came from.


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:24 PM   #89
marilynrn711
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What do these flatworms look like? I just noticed 2 worms on different acros last night. They were brownish and quite long - 3/4 of an inch. They were just blowing in the current attached to the acros. I removed one and looked like some of those pics unfortunately. I did not know they were that large though.

I tried to take some pics but my camera just doesnt do well with close up shots.


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:29 PM   #90
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Quote:
Originally posted by marilynrn711
What do these flatworms look like?
Check page 1 of this thread.


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:43 PM   #91
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I saw those pics, but they look extremely small, which is why I question mine being that so large.


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:47 PM   #92
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkss
Are you sure that the AEFWs that you witnessed in your main tank were already hatched when you did the FWE treatment ? (or could they have been eggs still?)
ReeferMac,

What I meant was : Were the AEFWs that you noted to have apparently survived the FWE treatment ones that actually survived the treatment as adults/hatched ? Or were they possibly eggs/unhatched during the treatment and hatched after the medication had left your system ? How long after the last treatment did you see the live AEFWs ? I am basing my questions on this from an earlier post of yours :

Quote:
Originally posted by ReeferMac
I dosed 6.5 bottles of the stuff to rid a red-flatworm infestation. Still got AEFW's.
I am just wondering if the AEFWs that you saw after the treatment were hatched after the treatment, or before. That was also why I asked the treatment schedule, to better ascertain if breaking their life cycle is possible :

Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkss
How many treatments and at what treatment schedule did you use the FWE ? How long after the last treatement did you find more AEFWs ? Again, thanks for sharing your experiences

Any information on your efforts and experiences is greatly appreciated. Thanks


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Unread 02/03/2006, 12:52 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally posted by marilynrn711
I saw those pics, but they look extremely small, which is why I question mine being that so large.
I have seen a few that were 1/2" or slightly larger. As has been noted, their color typically is derived from the coral that they are feeding on. This helps them to blend/camoflauge themselves very well when attached to a coral underwater. I have seen some that were clear. I am guessing that they just had not eatne recently enough to have retained any color, or the coral they were on ws just depleted of it's zooanthelles and flesh.

Hope this helps


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Unread 02/03/2006, 04:32 PM   #94
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I'll go ahead and chime in now as I just saw this thread. I've also been discussing a valid way of treating these things in tank for awhile. That's the major key, we need an entire tank treatment, not just a dip or preventative, as has been stated previously.

So this is what lead me to praziquantel aka Prazi-pro. After talking with the head chemist of Aquarium Pharmaceuticals and testing the product myself, I can say that it does rid the tank of normal flatworms. Now, I myself have fortunately not had to deal with acropora eating flatworms myself, so I can't really say if this product will work killing them.

I will offer however that one of the largest wholesalers in LA actually flushes their systems with large doses of praziquantel every three months as a preventative. It might be worth a try if some of you who actually have isolated the worms could try a treatment with either the prazi-pro or a laboratory grade praziquantel. Thanks and I hope to call one of you "THE worm killer" very soon.

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Unread 02/03/2006, 05:02 PM   #95
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Someone posted a while back that they had tried PraziPro unsuccessfully. In their tests they stated that it did not kill the AEFWs, but to be honest, I don't recall any testing guidelines data that was offerred along with the results.


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Unread 02/03/2006, 07:11 PM   #96
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Quote:
Originally posted by Sparkss
I am just wondering if the AEFWs that you saw after the treatment were hatched after the treatment, or before. That was also why I asked the treatment schedule, to better ascertain if breaking their life cycle is possible.
Right, I understand. Honestly can't say for sure, but the corals w/ the worst infections now were starting to bleach over a year ago, so I've gone on the assumption (since noting it), that they were in there all along. Honestly can't say for sure however.

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Unread 02/03/2006, 07:12 PM   #97
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I had a really bad infestation not too long ago.. killed about four of my large colonies and were found on every one of my 60 different acros. NOt a good day in the life of Brion. NOne theless i rid my self of them without using any treatments that may have hasd adverse effects on my tank... i simple to out each coral one by one (even the big ones ..ugh) and inspected for flatworms and eggs.. if no eggs were present I merely dipped the coral....no don't freak out on me.. i used freshwater... straight from the tap... cold... still breathing? good...Please no chastizing.. since the dips and the extinguishing of the AEFW's my corals have colored up and began growing tremendously.. even the bases on some colonies that i thought i lost are coming back. ...
Onward.. after a QUICK 30 second dip in freshwater and a good shaking to remove the flatworms which come pouring off when you give your coral a little shake in freshwater i just put them back into the tank.. didn't lose any of them.. Any and all corals found with eggs on the bases were fragged up... live branches were dipped in freshwater then place in a mild loguls solution and saltwater to make sure i removed all the worms. the bases were tossed and the pieces glued to frag rocks for regrowth...all are doing fine.. I also added a six-line wrasse to help out with any i missed... he's done a great job for me... this was not a fun ordeal and it was very tedious.. but it worked and i have seen no trace of the flatworms since...


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Unread 02/03/2006, 08:03 PM   #98
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Brion,

Thank you for sharing your experiences wth these pests. We are still looking for an in-tank treatment, for the numerous reasons noted in this thread. It is nice to hear first hand of a success story against these little monsters


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Unread 02/03/2006, 10:11 PM   #99
David Lo pan
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AEFW

Seems like they are coming in on not only Bali but now Fiji corals!
No more buying corals for awhile for me. Honestly, how many new species are actually coming in?
Seems like the safest way is to trade among fellow reefers. JMO


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Unread 02/03/2006, 10:36 PM   #100
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Re: AEFW

I woldnt trade among fellow reefers just yet. Im pretty sure many who do have flatworms got them from other reefers.

Quote:
Originally posted by David Lo pan
Seems like they are coming in on not only Bali but now Fiji corals!
No more buying corals for awhile for me. Honestly, how many new species are actually coming in?
Seems like the safest way is to trade among fellow reefers. JMO



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