algea scrubber

[williah]

LOTS of Passion on both sides! I like that, it makes for an explosive flow of information. How we manage all that info, and then choose to act, is a personal responsibility in my book.

I'm no expert but I'd love to share some of my personal experience. I added an ATS 1 1/2 years ago, and after 10 months I got rid of my skimmer, but I was very careful and watchful before I did it.

Aside: Before I get into it I will point out I use a phosban with mixed GFO & active carbon in it. I will continue to use this to deal with phosphate and other nasties in the water, regardless of the other subject. Also I do a water change every 2 weeks regardless. With either setup, I found a water change every 2 weeks kept everything looking happy, so I'm going to continue with this timetable.


Now, I had 2 major goals when I started experimenting with ATS: 1. coming up with an affective, long-term method for reducing my nitrate levels (I was between 50-100 at the time); 2. to increase phytoplankton levels in my water column.

Everything I read about an ATS said these 2 goals could be met with this system.


Positive results for me:

1. My nitrates have been 0 or barely above 0 since I got my ATS working. I NEVER had this before. This definitely never happened with just a skimmer. I like to feed heavily and since going with a working ATS I've been able to do just that without freeking out about my nitrate levels.

2. I wanted to maintain high levels of phyotplankton to my tank, and it was my understanding that the skimmer would remove the phyto from the water. People said to turn off the skimmer while feeding, but I wanted a constant presense of the little criters, and the methods behind an ATS seemed to allow this. Since I went ATS and removed the skimmer, my filter feeders have exploded in size (at least 3x the original size). They all look larger and healthier and beautiful-er (laugh, people, it's funny). Could be a coincidence but I believe more food plus more phyto in water has been the direct cause.

Now I agree an ATS is not perfect (what is, really?).

Negative aspects:
1. The work in fine tuning the design was major and painful for me, as der_wille_zur_macht and others point out . It took 6 months before I started getting positive results. I had to hunt down a lot of advise, and throw away a lot of rigs until I got it working right. I probably would have given up if it weren't for my desperate need to lower my nitrates. I'm glad I stuck with it.

2. I have to admit that with my current design it's a pain in the back cleaning the screen. I just have a pvc frame with my screen tied to it. I am going to try a new design now though, based on a design by SimonSKL, which I believe will make the cleaning a lot easier.

3. I did have a friend tell me he noticed a yellow tinge to my water, but adding the active carbon to my phosban got rid of it right away.

4. I've read an increase in enzymes and other nasties in the water become an issue without a skimmer, but I've also ready that active carbon removes these same nasties. This one has me concerned, but I watch my coral growth and behavior daily, and I change my active carbon regularly.


So far I've noticed no negative affects on my tank tennants from switching to ATS and removing my skimmer, (knock on wood/my head), only positives. But I will keep reading and checking, just like I did before changing my filtering method. Hopefully things will continue to get better.

I think threads like this are great, for all the negative and positive comments they generate (as long as the ideas are politely or not too rudely stated). In the end I'm going to check them all on my own anyway, so I'd rather read them than not.

[kcress]

Originally Posted by herring_fish

I'm sorry but I'm not quiet sure what you are asking. Are you asking about how the fine points of the tipping dump bucket design work or are you talking about turbulence that is created in some of the designs that I talked about below?

Sorry, the tipping. Looking at the picture I'm not seeing it.

Originally Posted by williah

I'm no expert but I'd love to share some of my personal experience. I added an ATS 1 1/2 years ago, and after 10 months I got rid of my skimmer, but I was very careful and watchful before I did it. {snip}

Thanks for your clear input.

[Alaska_Phil]

I added an algae scrubber to my system 5 months ago. I inherited care of this tank nearly 6 years ago and I've been battling one type of algae after another ever since. I'd tried everything imaginable, GFO, frequent massive water changes, starving my fish, daily manual removal and hords of snails and hermits. But my nitrate and phosphate was always undetectable due to all the algae.

I use a 6" wide vertical screen style with spiral PC light. when I started it my display was over run with brown cotton candy type algae. it grew on everything, rocks, sand equipment even the cords for my power heads. It took about a month for algae to really start populating the screen. At that point the only real difference I noticed was the lack of diatom algae no the glass. I'd had to clean it daily, now I only have to clean it about twice a week.

After 2 months, i only had algae growing on my rocks, but my equipment was staying clean. I'm assuming the rocks were leaching phosphate back into the system.

After 3 months the rocks were still covered, so I got impatient and plucked it out manually. I completely filled a 1 gal pitcher with algae from my 50 gal display! After that the algae on the screen really took off. But it never came back to the display. Even after my life got rather busy and I neglected doing water changes for 3 months.

Now, I still get a little algae in the tank, I pluck out a few little tuffs about once a month. I clean half my algae screen every 2 weeks. It takes that long for it to build up again. I'm still running my skimmer, but it's just back-pak II, so not a very efficient one. I've always run carbon since I have a mixed reef with leathers. Never noticed any bad smells or water discoloration.

I could probably have gotten the same result with a high end skimmer, or zeovite, or bio-pellets too. But so far I'm really happy with algae scrubber.

Phil

[kcress]

I doubt you'd actually get the same results against an algae plague with any skimmer. ATS really shine in that quadrant. If you turned up your flow, or lights, or add another inch or two of screen width, you'd probably stamp out the tank algae completely.

Keep in mind that CFLs like any other fluorescents grow dim rapidly with age. Unfortunately dim photo-growth wise has nothing to do with dim human eye wise. For the human eye to detect any difference in brightness requires something like half a change in actual photon flux. You should change your CFLs running an ATS every 3 or 4 months. Maybe cycle them thru your closets or hallways, etc..

[widmer]

Yea, I read as well that the CFLs should be changed every 3 or so months. If I were designing the ATS to be located in the sump where it doesn't matter what it looks like, I would likely have it driven by a T5HO, since if I remember correctly, they have MUCH better lumen maintenance than standard fluoros/CFLs.

[herring_fish]

I built a box about 3" high. 6 " and 48" long. As you can see, it tapers to a sharp end. There is a weight at the other end that is made of steel and is in-cased in plastic.

As the water starts filling the tray, it pools in the lowest part (shown in dark blue). As the tray takes more water it fills to the left in this picture. At some point, the water to the left of the fulcrum weights more than what is on the right and the weight of the steel. At the point the bucket tips over and dumps it's water. The water rushes out of the tray to create natural high speed, fairly linear turbulence.

The water spills a foot, in my case, to create a splash. To prevent over-splash, I installed a tube that goes just below the water line. I also have a flat plastic plate that stops the popping bubbles from causing salt creep.

When the water finishes dumping the tray rights its self. I placed jell pads, like you might put under your wrist when you use a mouse or keyboard, under the counter weight and at the sharp end to prevent a bumping sound and this works quite well.

Unlike similar the designs in Dynamic Aquaria, I place the fulcrum on the outside of the bucket. That way, I could move it forward and back until I had it properly tuned.

When the bucket tips back up, it happens quickly and the remaining water that doesn't make its way out of the tray, reverses its path and slides back down the narrow end of the tray. Then it crashes into water at the right end of the tray and into the wall of the counter weight. This adds random erratic turbulence. While this is not advisable, I found that I could leave my scrubber unattended for weeks or even a couple of months without seeing any dye off.

This is a design that requires basic fabrication skills and access to a ban saw or something like it because you need straight clean lines. Cutting the angle does not lend itself to doing score and snap cuts which is what you normally get at Lowes. Other than that, it wasn't too hard to make. I bought 1” square bar stock and they cut it for me so that I had four pieces to stack into a 4” height x 4” length x 6” (minus that plastic) width.

I did have to mess with it for a couple of weeks to get it to work the way that I wanted it to. This is definitely not something that you can just take out of a box, plug it in and forget it. Once I tuned it, I haven't had to mess with it much at all though. It is very forgiving.

[kcress]

Thanks Herring.

I was sort of guessing that might be the function, but, on the original picture there were no side walls which confused me as no water could pile up.

Thanks again.

[zangmann]

Here's a few shots after cleaning.





FTS

[Alaska_Phil]

The remaining algae in the display is so minor that it's not worth worrying about. And I tend to agree with PaulB that a little algae in the display is more natural looking.

I did change my CFL's after 3 months. they'll be due again around the first of Dec.

Phil

[xdannyxrocksx]

if i was to do t5s i would just do regular t5s and maybe a soft white or 3500K, havent really looked but if possible go down as low as 3000k

[kcress]

Alaska; Roger that!

xdan; Yes, you can even use 2700k for bulbs. Some people swear by pinker light some swear by yellower light. What I think is that whatever light you choose the algae that flourishes will be the one that likes the color you're using - hence the various opinions.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

I think it's also important to note that the kelvin scale is meant to be a "human eye" approximation of warmth/coolness, and we should be careful to imply any direct bearing on spectral distribution, PAR, or general suitability for growing algae!

[Alaska_Phil]

The type of algae that grows will also be dependant on what levels and proportions of nutrients are available. I'm using 3500K lamps and getting green turf algae on mine.

[Nathan.Titulaer]

I used 2700k at first on mine and the algae never really would grow so after 3 months I switched to 3700k on one side and 6500k day light bulbs and the green turf algae really took off. I also saw my corals looking better and showing more growth with this set up.

[n-kleine]

Hello everyone! It is nice to see there are others using ATS. Anyone heard of Inland Aquatics in Tere Haute Indiana? They have a massive complex that is completely filtered by ATS. I just bought a custom 300 gallon system that has a surge type ATS. I have owned many protein skimmers BK, Deltec, etc. I was tired of putting in expensive additives and salt just to have the skimmer pull them right out! At Inland Aquatics they have several small systems that have not had water changes in 10 years or more and are loaded with fish and coral with the best success. Just my opinion in the 10 years I have been in the hobby. If you are ever in the area go to Inland Aquaticsand ask for Ben or Morgan to show you this wonderful setup.

[kcress]

It's important to note that the turf can be any of dozens of types of algae. Your tank could easily not harbor several the the next guys tank could.

[n-kleine]

Yes, you are right. You can purchase seed screens from Inland Aquatics or other tanks so that you can get the variety you need to begin the screen.

[Floyd R Turbo]

I'm glad I was pointed to this thread from the original one SM started...

I have been maintaining this system for about a year, was in bad shape when I took it over but I've turned it around, well established 3yrs+, started with Nitrates 150+ and I ratcheted it down to about 15-20, LR took it down the rest of the way on it's own. Still had a phos issue but no DT algae (grazers). I just liked the idea of the ATS, it made sense to me.

My design is high-powered and you can tell by the quick maturity of the screen. Here's the tank






Here's the ATS


And the growth after a month (this is before the 4th weekly cleaning)



More later..gotta go

[widmer]

That is one powerful looking scrubber. Great job on (what looks like) the use with T5 with individual reflectors. What are some specs? ie aquarium size, your screen length x width, flow etc?

I'm guessing SM would say one of two things in regard to the color of the algae - either photoinhibition or still high nutrient load in the system? Part of me wonders if you are in fact providing more light than optimal because T5 lamps are a LOT more powerful than the CFL lamps... Have you previously run it with just one of those T5's over the screen?

[Floyd R Turbo]

I've got a build thread running on algae scrubbers website. I made an error in the flow calc, it's only 433 GPH (mag12/plumbing issue, whole other story) but it's a 20" wide 8-9" tall screen so I need to double the flow, that's why it's yellow. I've been adding Kent Iron/Manganese to offset.

Was feeding every other day, just cubes of brine shrimp with a little pellet food now and then and nori cubes a couple times a week. Started daily feeding and added Oyster-feast, Arcti-Pods, Rod's Food, Cyclopeez (sp?), and dumped a jar of Tigger Pods in to boot.

Tank is 125 Acrylic, end overflow (peninsula tank), sump is 40 breeder.

ATS Lights are 4x T5HO Grow Lamps from aghydroponics (red spectrum perfect for ATS and SUPER CHEAP) http://www.aghydroponics.com/T5-2Ft-...-pxfl24830.htm

Workhorse 5 ballast

TEK-II reflectors

Custom acrylic box

Yeah. it's super-high powered.

[widmer]

Wow, @ 400 gph/(20" x 2 sides) = average ~10 gph/linear inch?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

How's the splashing and salt creep on the acrylic? How often do you clean it? How easy is it to get the screen out of your design?

[Jstdv8]

That is definately one of the finer scrubbers Ive seen.
How much were the lights?

[Floyd R Turbo]

No, the 35 Gallons per inch is just of screen width, not per inch per side, according to SM's FAQs and everything I've ever read that he suggested. So I currently have aobut 20 Gal/In. I need to get to 700 Gal/inch.

The lamps themselves were 8 for $32 or $4 each. Everything else was expensive. $25/each reflector & clips, $15/pair of ice caps & standoffs, $27 ballast. My dad makes acrylic display holders for antique dealers and made the box. I clean it every 7 days. The front cover comes off, I turn off the pump or open the bypass valve, unscrew the union. From beginning to end it takes about 20+ minutes.

[Floyd R Turbo]

oops I meant 700 GPH. Problem is the return hose is too small. I found out (though it goes against all logic) direct from Danner Mfg that the Mag12 with a 3/4 nozzle needs a 1-1/2" return hose or else the flow is restricted and you lose GPH. With 5' head it should be running 900-1100 GPH but with a 3/4" return hose, even with no horizontal, and a recently cleaned pump/impeller, I get 433 GPH (tested by filling 2 Qt pitcher 10-12 times in a row and averaging out the times, not including top and bottom time)

So I'm going to increase the return hose from pump to bulkhead to 1" and see what happens. If not enough, bulkhead to 90 that leads to jet will be next.