I have seen the light!

[bjmumy]

KW,

What are you referring to when you mention "high quality plugs" and where did you get them?

Brian

[David Newman]

I use wire nuts for connections inside the hood, and Molex connectors outside the hood. After all connections are made, I put silicon in the wire nuts and over the ends of the Molex plugs. Not long after wiring my current hood, I went down to check the tank and heard some hissing and crackling. Inspection revealed that I had missed one of the Molex plugs with the silicon. I unplugged, let it cool down and then put in the silicon. No problem since.

David

[David Newman]

I just received a response from Eyelighting.

This is the e-mail I sent to them:

"A few questions about which of these Advance ballasts would be most appropriate for use with the MT250DL lamp: 71A3572 or 71A3802. If both will work, would you expect any operating characteristics to be different between the two ballasts? Will either affect the life of the lamp?"

And this is the response I received:

"Thank you for your interest in EYE lamp products. In answer to your
question, the better ballast for use with this lamp is
#71A3572(-001D)Advance mercury CWA. This will best maintain lumens and color
over lamp life.

John Petrak
Sales Engineer"


FWIW
David

[RicoJ]

Outstanding thread guys!!! This is definitely one for the archives.

Does anyone know which ballast would be appropriate for the 400W Iwasakis?

Rico.

[KW]

I'm not really sure what the jargon is for these items, so I'll make-up my own When you plug-in an electric devise you stick the "plug" into the "socket."

Well, I bought a plug and a socket for each wire that I wanted to be able to disconnect. Home Depot had some really nice ones for about $10.00 per socket or plug. It would probably be less expensive to butcher some extension cords and then solder the pieces in place and seal them with heat shrink tubing.

There is most likely a better way to do it, but the above is quick and easy.

[MrSandman]

David,

I wonder why it would best maintain lumens and color
over lamp life. Did the sales engineer say why? I personally just hate hearing something contradictory, without an explanation. Kinda like going into a auto shop and having the mechanic tell you that you need a complete overhaul "because it'll make your car run better".

[David Newman]

I agree, but no, he didn't explain (and I'm not confident I would have understood if he had). The only other thing he told me a year ago was:"If you use a Metal Halide Ballast you run the risk of damaging the built in starter of the MT250DL. Due to higher open circuit voltage." I don't know if that built in starter has anything to do with it.

David

[MrSandman]

Hmm...i was totally under the impression that both the 71A3572 and 71A3802 were Mercury Vapor ballasts? Am i correct? If so then i guess it would be safe to assume that there would be no risk of damaging the built in starter of the MT250DL. Do you think you can post the engineer's email address so i can find out? I would really like to find out what the differences are between the two so i can weigh the benefits of each myself. Thanks!

[bjmumy]

David,
Thanks for the great follow up. That's interesting that an EYE representative would advise us to use that ballast as the instructions that come with the bulb specifically state not to use a CWA type ballast. At any rate, I guess his point is to use a ballast that is specifically made for an H37 mercury vapor bulb.

BTW, for anyone interested in learning more about the details of HID ballasts, there is a great pdf file on Advance's website that explains the different circuit types and everything. It's a good read for anyone planning on a DIY MH setup. The file is here: http://www.advancetransformer.com/te...er/hid/HID.pdf

My hood is almost done (I just have to put polyurethane on it now) and I will be installing it this weekend. If anyone is interested, I can post some more pictures of the setup in operation.

Brian

[David Newman]

I hope he doesn't mind. His e-mail is johnpetrak@hotmail.com
His name is John Petrak and he's been extremely helpful (and patient). The other e-mail I've used is sales@eyelighting.com.

Let us know if you learn anything.

David

[JohnL]

[arc]

[therman]

For everyones information,

John Petrak emailed me back about the 400w ballast. apparently CWA ballasts are fine to use with the 6500K bulb. The info on the slip that comes with them is outdated.

Tim

[Edited by therman on 10-26-2000 at 10:40 AM]

[Olgranddad]

Out of curiousity what is the part number for the 400W ballasts? I am starting to make decisions about what life I plan on keeping. At this point I don't know what the light requirements are so I can finalized them. I'm deciding between the 250W and 400W ballasts.

Thanks

Olgranddad

[npaden]

I have seen this thread hanging around for weeks and never clicked on it because of the title. Oh well, I will share my DIY Iwasaki setup for everyone now, if maybe a little late.

I got my ballasts off ebay for $84.03 including shipping. They are 400W MH ballasts that also are supposed to work for the MV as well. Here is a closeup pic of the ballasts:
http://padens.homepage.com/hp/gear/p....html?item=7.3
Notice it says right on the label that it is good for MH or MV bulbs.

I didn't know to look at Graybar for the MV ballasts or would have probably used those. I called some other electrical and lighting companies in town and they wanted $60 or more each on MH or MV ballasts. I also was not positive at the time on the Iwasaki bulbs, so thought using the MH/MV ballast would allow me to switch if I ended up not liking the Iwasaki bulb. I might have to spend the $ on a MV ballast just to see if you can actually tell any difference in the color or intensity of the bulbs on the different ballasts. I haven't seen any results using a PAR meter or anything and I don't have one either though.

I used a $12 metal tool box from Home Depot for my enclosure box. Here is a pic of the enclousure box:
http://padens.homepage.com/hp/gear/p....html?item=7.1
I was able to fit both ballasts into the tool box including the capacitors. I drilled some holes in it for ventilation and right now I have a small fan that blows over the toolbox on the same timer as the ballasts so it keeps it from heating up to much.

I didn't use a disconnect on the wire going to the sockets and that is a pain as now if I ever need to pull the canopy I will have to undo the wires going to the sockets from the ballasts. If I pull the canopy I will change this and put in disconnect type plugs on.

Here is one more pic a little closer that the other that shows the ballasts sitting in the toolbox. I used "Hi Temp" automotive silicone to adhere the ballasts and capacitors to the toolbox so they wouldn't move around. It is strong enough to keep them in place, but if I wanted to, I could pry them out of the toolbox.

Total price on my 2X400W setup with bulbs ended up just under $250 and this really is an easy DIY. The longest it took for anything was drilling the holes in the toolbox. Total time might have been around 1 hour.

FWIW, Nathan

[Phillstone]

What is the purpose of encloseing the balast in a metal box? If I were to remote mount these away from the tank wouldn't it be better to let them get air flow to help disapate heat?

Just curious, Phill

[MrSandman]

BJ,

Ok, i just received all of the parts i needed and went ahead and installed the light per your instructions. WOW ITS BRIGHT!!! hehe..i was seeing spots for a while. It was kinda bluish too. I even got 2 24" PFO reflectors so that i can hold my 1 MH and 2 PC's on one reflector x 2. I can't wait to get it over the tank. I'm very tempted to do a "Rube Goldberg" and just stick the set-up over the tank w/o the hood just to see how it'll look, but im just scared i may end up leaving it that way..hehe.. I have one question. Have you ever left the lights on for a long time? I was wondering how hot the ballast got. Reason being is that, i got a metal enclosure from a friend of mine that where the ballast can't stand up on its square "ring". I want to lay it on its side inside the metal box and have it rest on the coils, but was wondering if it'll get too hot for the box? any help would be great.

[bjmumy]

Phill, the reason for enclosing them is to avoid electricution. I just wouldn't feel comfortable leaving them exposed. As long as they were in an area where nobody could touch them and no water could get anywhere close to them, I spose they'd be ok exposed. But I think it's in your best interests to put them away in something for safety's sake.

MrSandman, the ballasts do get warm. When I left them on for 2 hours, the boxes got kinda hot, but not hot enough that I couldn't hold my hand on them indefinitely. I don't think heat would be a huge problem in letting the coils sit on their sides, but I think they were meant to rest on the coils rather than the cores. I don't know how good that would be for the ballasts long term. Congrats on your new setup! This thread really took off more than I thought it ever would. I was just excited that I had a metal halide bulb going in my garage and wanted to tell somebody that would understand my joy.

[Bamm Bamm]

Well I was just curious if there is any updates on these setups i was thinking of going to home depot this week to see if they happen to have the stuff i would need....Dan

[therman]

called graybar to find out the price for the CWA ballast for the 400w....turned out to be like $78

might as well just buy PFO at that price.

[Colin]

I did some calling around, and a place called 'Light Bulb Supply' here in Oklahoma City can get (does not stock) the Advance 71A3802 for $29.95. The 71A-3572 is in stock for $56.25. The guy said the big difference was that the 3572 was a 'multi-tap' ballast and could run off of multiple input voltages, whereas the 3802 only ran on 120VAC. Is this the only difference, or was he simplifiying things?

This also means that if you don't want to deal with Graybar or don't have one around, there are other alternatives that are close in price.

--Colin

[Bubafat]

Anyone know the part #?

Thanks

Buba

[Snailman]

Colin... Maybe we could all get together and make one big buy from your place and get an even better price.

[Colin]

Heheh. Of course shipping would be outrageous. You guys should check locally with lighting supply stores and see if they can order them for you. This place is an open to the public type joint, and I have a feeling that most retail places sell those ballasts for about $30.

--Colin

[MrSandman]

Ok, just got an email back from an eye representative. I posed the following questions:

I currently have several ballasts manufactured by Advance Transformers part number 71A3802. I was just wondering if your 250W 6500K bulb item#57787 w/ a lamp designation# of MT250DL would work with them? If not, then can you please point me to the ballast which is compatible and give details as to why? I was told that the 71A3572 (CWA) is also a compatible ballast. Can you explain how and why it is better to run your bulbs off of these?

He responded with:

"The MT250DL lampworks best with a mercury high power factor ballast
Many people do use CWA ballasts due to availabilty
Both the ballasts you have will work ok
Magnetk's 1033-24S with the high power factor Capacitor would give the longest lamp life
ÂÂ*
TOM GOLENBERKE
SERVICE MANAGER
EYE LIGHTING INA"

[David Newman]

Well, now we have more confusion. John Petrak recommended the Magneteck 1030-92, which is what I wound up getting. When the Electrical Engineer and the Service Manager (both at Eye)don't agree, how are we supposed to figure it out?

David